Evening Update – via a reliable source:
This story started with a Canadian Press story that obviously did not understand House of Commons procedure. The Ways and Means Motion being voted on Monday is for tax measures only. The elimination of political subsidies will be in the enabling legislation for the fiscal update as planned, it will be a confidence vote.
With the Liberals held hostage, Jack Layton has reportedly laid out his list of demands – including both the finance and environment portfolios.
I told you this’d be worth it!
Bourque seems to be on top of the other news headlines, so I’l redirect you there…
Original post continues below:
Opposition hold coalition talks, Grits may dump Dion
One option under consideration is to suspend plans for the May 2 leadership convention and just go straight to the cage match…. developing….
Updates:
A CBC poll goes horribly wrong.
Breaking – after calls to the Saskatchewan “a leadership convention date has yet to be decided” Liberals produced a “this number is no longer in service” message, opposition parties are reported to be seeking advice on coalition-forming from Jean “when I’m finished with Paul Martin he won’t get elected dog-catcher” Chretien.
ROTFLMAO Update… via John Gormley Live. … With the opposition parties on record vowing to take down the government over the “lack of a stimulus package” in the economic update … Harper The Merciful has announced he’ll remove the party funding portion and separate it from the confidence vote… developing…
To the Liberal/NDP supporters whining that the CPC is exploiting the opposition’s financial vulnerability to play “partisan games”, I offer this advice – get out your checkbooks and shut the hell up.
Maybe I will send the conservatives fifty bucks. Because I support conservative values. Maybe it’s to stick a virtual thumb in Stephane’s eye.
If this turns ultra destructive, there is no good to be had anywhere. I would love to see the Libs at two seats, but that doesn’t mean they won’t come back. That feat is recent history. Seriously, if there is a time for fiscal conservatism to work, it is now. If there is a time to prove conservatives aren’t scary to our neighbors, that’s now too. Options that keep the wolf from the door include the defensive: extended EI benefits when retraining and targetted infrastructure spending. Leadership would include working with and levering the experience of immigrant groups in a real way to go into new markets for all Canadians, lowering taxes on investment, demolishing inter-provincial trade barriers…
Kicking the ever-living crap out of political opposition, (and I absolutely oppose public financing of political parties) is needlessly distracting. If conservative principals are as good as we say they are, the results will be their own recommendation and a $1.95 per vote will become irrelevant.
Right now it is all about the economy stupid.
I think you’ll all enjoy this little something I wrote: http://pelalusa.blogspot.com/2008/11/huffing-and-puffing-in-ottawa-sandbox.html
Call it a “useful analogy”!
Is it just me or does Bob Rae look like Gary Busey?
If the Liberals form a coalition government with the separatists and Taliban Jack they’re going to have to wear that in the next election — i.e. in a couple of months and they know it.
What’s revolting about this is the way the opposition parties are all *pretending* that they’re outraged about the lack of a stimulus package. They’re inveterate liars. They’re taking it, and they’ll pay for it. It couldn’t be more clear that what they’re actually outraged about is that the taxpayer tit is being yanked out of their mouths. They evidently consider it to be not possible that one out of every ten Canadians who voted for them might kick in twenty bucks to replace the money. That speaks volumes about the paltry grassroots support for the Liberals in particular.
Adam Radwanski in the G&M promotes that “undemocratic” gay-fakery: “The governing party will be able to cobble enough to spend the limit during a campaign, but nobody else will.”
Think about that for a second — *he* didn’t: IF the parties were to remain funded by taxpayers based on the number of votes received, THEN the governing party would have more money. But if the parties are funded by grassroots support — small donations, by law — the ruling party would have no guaranteed advantage whatsoever.
Just irrational, fake outrage.
Ah well, watch out, Stephane: “Under the Liberal constitution the party’s national executive has…power to appoint an interim successor should the leader resign or die. Ignatieff…would likely become leader if that route were followed…”
Hmm. So if Dion doesn’t resign simply because Iggy wants him to…
Boy, you’ve gotta think that they burning the midnight oil in the Rae and Iggy camps trying to figure out a way to come out on top.
Meanwhile Stephane sleeps the sleep of pious angels. He will only figure out that he is no longer leader when the the his key to the leader of the opposition office door no longer works.
He’s baack…
“Governor General, Chretien said to have roles as confidence vote approaches”
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=3d7fbdf2-1007-480b-899a-d5bbacb1cc4a
“…former prime minister Jean Chretien has been called in to “broker” a quick end to the Liberal leadership race as Ottawa gears up for a confidence vote Monday that could end Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s seven-week-old minority government.”
A cage match would be a more humane way to do this than what is actually going to take place…
Wow I knew the dippers and lieberals were stupid, but not that stupid.
So they vote against the bill because it does not contain a stimulus package, like thats what the country needs, more government spending!
And then what? They go to the Governor General (the Queens representative who has sworn to uphold the monarchy) with the blocheads in tow and say we want to rule the country, with the blocheads obviously having veto power. Yeah nice one boys, our Governor General is pretty stupid but I don’t think she is going to give the blocheads that power.
Or they ask for another general election, so that the Conservatives can endlessly run Boob Rae repeat that NOBODY wants an election especially in the winter. The lieberals go into a campaign with no money, no clear idea who the leader is and will campaign on what in Ontario? we don’t want to give up 6 million bucks of money you sent to us when you were employed. Haha HA.
The dippers at least have something to gain, they will play up to the public sector unions and gain a few more seats from the lieberals (played them like suckers).
The bloc will risk their traditional fifty seats, but it does not matter they are all getting pensionable time while achieving nothing.
The conservatives will endlessly play clips of the party spokesmen demanding their $1.95 per vote and the electorate will see them for what they are, Political Welfare Bums(TM David Lewis NDP)
Oh its going to be a very enjoyable Christmas, no gifts for me Santa, I alrerady have everything I want.
If the opposition parties form a coalition and and the GG empowers them then we will see a coup d’etat in Canada similiar to what Germany went through in the Thirties. Canadians have to wake up to the fact that in a global economy Canada is small potatoes, much like our influence on the global warming scene. Anything Harper does for economic stimulus in Canada will have to wait until the other G7 countries come up with a plan globally. If we jump the gun here we could shoot ourselves in the foot. The faux outrage in the HoC today is not over the stimulus package it is over the cutting off of the public funds and to think otherwise is to drink the ‘fool-ade’. If the opposition defeat Harper’s government on this bill and we don’t go for an election then as I’ve said above we will see a coup d’etat in Canada. If we go for an election then the opposition is going to get their pink slips before the second fiscal report next year.
Kate, I think you’re enjoying this just a little too much.
On second thought, nah, it’s impossible to enjoy it too much.
In my dream, during the election campaign Harper tells Canadians on even numbered days that any “stimulus” plan beyond what is already budgeted guarantees deficits. On odd numbered days he tells us that the opposition parties defeated the government and put us into an election campaign during Christmas season because they didn’t want to lose their taxpayer subsidy.
But, an election will never happen. Neither will an opposition coalition. We’ll have to settle for giggling while the opposition foams at the mouth until enough Libranos get sick ensuring the motion will pass.
another part of this proposal should be to demand that the lieberals pay back the adscam money at the same time as the cuts to subsidies.
Wasn’t it the Canadian MSM who said Canadian politics were boring ? Something tells me that’s not what their thinking after today. Christmas comes early for Canadians! I hope the Conservatives have the strength of conviction to stare down the welfare bums on the left of the house. Watching the seperatist Bloc, Liberal, NDP alliance, along with the wingnuts in the Green party and their comrades in the MSM whining and crying for their welfare is really an astonishing spectacle. We’re entitled to our entitlments is their mantra, and who the hell is going to listen to them. The Peoples Temple of Trudeauvia are in a real bind with this one, their belief that Canadians owe them is outrageous. Trying to feign outrage over the fact the Government doesn’t have some half baked stimulus package is a classic deflection technique, when we all know the concern of the Bloc, Liberal, NDP alliance is self preservation. Canadians fund the seperatist Bloc to the tune of 86% now that’s” as dumb as a bag of hammers”. What a pack of self serving parasites, all the while pretending to care about the ecomomy and whats good for Canadians. If the Liberals and their comrades in the Bloc were to dare to form a coalition government they would be risking the very future of the country. Whom would they choose to be the PM Dion ? Layton ? Duceppe ?!? As for the Haitian princess in the GGs office, with her well known seperatist sympathies what can we expect from her ? 290 million dollars has been spent since 2004 on political party welfare, propping up parties that wouldn’t know the first thing about raising money to support their ideologies. The MSM have always loved to paint PM Harper as a bully, but it’s the MSM along with their comrades in the Bloc, Liberal, NDP alliance that are trying to bully the Canadian electorate into supporting them finacially whether we like it or not. What a disgrace these fat cat welfare socialists are, they simply can’t contemplate the concept of paying their own way, or finding enough people who believe in their ideology to support them. Stay on it PM Harper, please don’t back down.
[quote]Some MPs said former prime minister Jean Chretien had been approached for advice on how to massage Dion’s early exit. But sources close to Chretien said he has not been contacted and is in no way involved. [/quote]
The New Jersey in me recognizes the HIT man role. Is the party that shallow that they need Chretien (the adult) to tell them how to run the party. What happens if they are elected, does Chretien run the country from a dark table in the infamous Franks Restaurant of Montreal?
The MSM has thier lead Story…Why not ask the question?
If they really want to save bucks, they should forget any sort of convention, and just go straight to Thunderdome.
Three Libs enter – one Lib leaves!
The mental image of Iggy, Rae and Stephanie bouncing around a giant metal hemisphere on bungee cords with running chainsaws in their lily-white mitts is hard to resist, no?
Hey, Cal2: I like the way you think. I hoist a beer in your general direction.
The media are deliberately ignoring the historical fact that Chretien instituted state funding for Canada’s political parties purely as a bailout for the Liberal Party.
The Libs had so thoroughly disgusted the electorate by the time he passed that law that no ordinary voter would donate enough for them to run the party. They had to steal it — which led to Adscam. But Chretien knew the looting was only a temporary solution for his gang, so he put all the parties on welfare.
The media keep going on about the Tories’ fabulous high-tech fund-raising machinery. Bull! The fact is that Liberals, as a group, are used to taking what they want, not donating to the general good. Conservatives tend to be more civic-minded, and give.
I like Wuberman’s idea of sending the Tories $50 for their party defunding gambit. Let’s follow his example.
Dear God, I’m hoping that there’s going to be some floor crossing to the CPC to head off the imbeciles that are planning a “coalition government.”
Just imagine what a coalition of the entitled Librano$, Dipper$, and Blockhead$ would mean for Canadians. The government and all of their specially chosen “victim” (sic) groups will be on the dole, courtesy of the rest of us. Bye-bye any semblance of sanity, sound judgment, or responsible fiscal policy.
I’m on my knees praying PLEASE keep the CPC in place. Prime Minister Stephen Harper is the only good apple in the bunch; Dion, Ignatieff, Rae, Layton, Duceppe are just a bunch of clowns–you know the kind in the horror films? Jolly on the outside, twisted on the inside …
“However, Behiels predicted that a coalition ‘wouldn’t last more than a month’ and the country would be plunged into another election anyway. And he said that’s exactly what Harper wants.” He added, “I think this has been engineered. Harper wants his majority so bad before we’re into the depths of a recession.”
Won’t happen. There will be no election. The entire political apparatus of this country is controlled by liberals for liberal interests and the GG would not allow an election, instead choosing to allow the Liberals to form a coalition.
The Liberals are broke. Canadians wouldn’t want another election. Quebec is in the midst of a provincial election already. Back-to-back-to-back elections? The GG would never allow it.
And if there was any credibility to Behiels’ claim that Harper has engineered this then where would the votes come from that would give Harper a majority? Quebec? Why would those in ridings that voted Bloc over Conservatives last October not vote the same way again, especially if it means more for Quebec with the Bloc in a coalition? There is a 0% of another election over this in my opinion. A better chance at a coalition. But even that is unlikely. The situation will be diffused with one side or another backing down.
If I was Harper I’d be putting the army on stand by. This notion of a coalition is nothing more than a coup. Who the fu*k do these leftists think they are? The Conservatives won the election so get over it. You want to vote down the Gov’t, fine, but a coup?
Long live the Western Republic. Fu*k the east.
Next up: CBC viewers pay their own way.
The polls are showing that Canadians are pleased to see the “MP Welfare” scam stopped in its tracks. As we know, the CPC, which, in real terms, will lose the most money in this case, basically supports itself. It’s the lefty parties, whom the majority of Canadians apparently vote for, that appear to have no real grassroots—as in donations—support
Like others here, my cheque to the Conservatives will be in the mail today, an outward and visible sign of my support. A surge of donations to the CPC by us little guys will be a FACT the naysayers can’t overlook. (Well, as usual, the MSM will probably look the other way, but the facts will get out. Their airtight vessel has sprung a lot of leaks . . .)
Seeing the lefties’ distress at being thoroughly hoist on their own petard is sweet.
(If it backfires, the country will be in the hands of our lefty pirates and we’ll be in really deep trouble. The up side of that will be that Canadians, who flirt with their lefty parties, attractively packaged by the left’s MSM allies, while being totally ignorant of their total incompetence and duplicity, will soon be dancing with these wolves and find out all about their skulduggery. And, in the present financial meltdown, the lefties won’t have the money to buy approval the way they used to. It will be very painful, but, if Canadians are willing to allow a coalition of wolves to ravage this country—all of them, cutting off their noses to spite their faces—maybe a dose of REALLY unpleasant reality is what this country needs.)
From Fife just now…’unprecedented’ times right now..the Libs/ndp with assist in talks from Chretien and Ed Broadbent will go to GG to topple gov’t.Fife states the Bloc want Dion gone,before they will give their blessing..NDP will have seats in Cabinet.OMG! the country is done.
Good. Let them try their little tin-pot coup d’etat. When push comes to shove, the people of this country are very centrist, and their is no way that they will stand for a coalition of the moonbat/dipper/trough wallowing leftards.
There are probably enough centrist libs who would cross the floor out of disgust.
The last thing this country needs right now is political instability. With declining commodity prices, and real estate values barely clinging to their current levels, the best case scenario is PMSH and his economics background running the show.
Keep your powder dry libranos. You can engage in your chicanery once the global economy stablizes.
An NDP, Bloc, Liberal coalition government . . . would be the most hilarious concoction possible.
I’d pay big bucks to be a fly on the wall at the first caucus meeting, let alone the first Leader’s meeting to set policy goals.
Like three scorpions locked up in a small bottle/
Globe and Mail poll: “Should the opposition parties support the Conservative government’s economic package?”
Yes: 49%. No: 51%
First off, Chretien had no debate when he decided to force us all to support all political parties to the tune of $1.75. He took full advantage of the fact he had weak opposition, he did whatever he wished, including sending troops to Afghanistan. That was just fine with the media, their party was in power.
Now the media are salivating at the possibility the government will fall. Wonder how they figure we’ll do with warring factions trying to steer us through rough economic waters?
It’s the politics of the absurd being played out by a gleeful idiotic media with mush for brains.
Imagine the Liberals, who haven’t got their own act together, the Dippers who do not see eye to eye with them or anyone else and the Bloc who are only in it for Quebec.
Will we see the first Junta in North America?
Eventually the coalition will fall apart and the Tories will have a full quiver of arrows and a full coffer to fight yet another election. They will also be the only party that hadn’t banded with separatists in order to grasp for power.
My sense is most Canadians do not want to rush into more government spending to ‘stimulate’ the economy. They also recognize that the government has already committed money in that direction anyway. Chretien if he is indeed advising the liberals will probably tell them to return to sitting on their hands.
Iggy seemed cautious on the News last night and is probably already planning urgent family business to take him out of town on Monday.
As I posted elsewhere: What would happen in the markets if such a coalition did grab power?
I think that the fools are doing exactly what Harper’s strategists had expected them to do: Destroy themselves.
Of course they are ready to run a government together to save their welfare payments, how unprincipled, how unpatriotic.
Or as the old Nova Scotia election campaign wisdom saying said, “Talk is cheap. It takes money to buy rum”.
I think that the fools are doing exactly what Harper’s strategists had expected them to do: Destroy themselves.
Of course they are ready to run a government together to save their welfare payments, how unprincipled, how unpatriotic.
Or as the old Nova Scotia election campaign wisdom saying said, “Talk is cheap. It takes money to buy rum”.
Poll from CFRA in Ottawa
Should the Conservatives back down on their proposal to cut public subsidies for political parties in order to avoid defeat in Monday night’s confidence vote? (Please vote first. To comment, email mornings@cfra.com)
Yes – it looks like a move designed to silence the opposition
22.8%
No – it is a genuine attempt at restraint and a matter of principle
75.3%
Other
I think the opposition parties are contemplating political suicide — the Canadian people voted 38% for the Conservatives to govern, not a rag-bag coalition of parties, one of which includes a separatist party. The electorate will remember, and with great anger. Triggering an election during an economic downturn will demonstrate how out of touch these politicians are.
Let’s keep in mind that Conservatives lost in a few ridings by small margins — they could win those in another election, giving them the majority they desire. Do the Liberals and Co. really want that?
Good post, Bobbi.
If Harper showed half the enthusiasm attacking the HRC’s, gun registry, bloated government, MMGW fraud, etc, etc, as he has shown attacking the LPC, he’d again have my support.
Partisanship is choking the life out of our western democracies.
Defence Minister Jack Layton has a nice ring to it!! Fife is starting to look sh*t-scared over this mess.
How long before this is all over CNN/Fox,and how petty are the opposition parties going to look on the world stage in this financial crisis?
Don’t worry about this. I’m sure the Toronto Star will manage to rein in the Liberals and their talk of a coalition. I mean, after all, the Star fought the possibility of a Reform-NDP coalition that would have kept the Bloc from becoming Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. And the Star wrote every time that Reform/CA/CPC voted the same way as the Bloc, that they were un-Canadian by working with the separatists… so there’s no way that the Star would support this. Right?
NDP finance critic Judy Washawhatever has a brain skull cramp on Duffy last nite.
Going on about No Money for the Poor, no money to protect mortgages, No money yadda yadda yadda, But Is Unwilling to GIVE UP THEIR POLITICAL WELFARE CHEQUE.
And while this was all going on flashing on the screen $6Billion for Infrastructure.
Ya judy it is a atrocity to democracy When the Socialist/Communist Threaten to OVERTHROW DEMOCRACY.
History Repeats itself! Think about it folks.
*breifly: i had a quick stop after work at my RCl Branch The talk was all about the Political Parties Recieving $30million
I pointed out to the guys That is PER YEAR & the Opposition is threatening to OverThrow the Govt, They were all saying the Same thing Fng Commies, BullSh**. Also that topic was the talk at the Coffee Shop this morning.
Ya Judy, Scott & Our Friend Ted. Canadians are listening & Yes they Agree with the PM.
Maybe not in LaLa Land but in the Real Working World they are.
I’m up for another election, especially one called by the opposition because they won’t stand for a budget cut during a financial crisis. I’m not moving this month, and I have time to volunteer (so long as there is no background check eh?)
Of course I’d also welcome an election called by the opposition in support of the 2 billion dollar gun registry or the multi-million dollar section 13 HRC circus.
Why not a bill that kills the registry, section 13 AND the political party pork fest all at one shot?
Bring. It. On.
Wow. Didn’t think the Liberals were really this dumb. Doesn’t surprise me though.
Chretien and Broadbent involved…hmmm….maybe the Liberals really want an election after they knife Dion.
All the vaunted words of the Liberals about playing footsie with the Bloc, you know how bad it is…as usual means absolutely nothing.
This can be signaling from the opposition as well to make this critically important thing go away. Problem is the GG is part of the “the cabal”.
How in the world do you hand power over 2 months after an election in which the conservatives got MORE seats than last time? They really really want power back.
Wow Bob Fife is all worked up over this. It seems that maybe he had some money riding on Harper playing nice this time around or something. If Fife is talking like that I can’t imagine what Don Newman will be like.
I don’t think the coalition is as likely as he is making it out to be. I don’t think the Conservatives will back down either.
vlad the ignatieffer
The whole Liberal plan for a coalition is so poorly thought out and short-sighted that I can’t believe they would actually follow through with it.
However, we are talking about the Liberal party here, so maybe…..
Seriously, when Monday rolls around I suspect that a lot of Liberal MPs will catch a cold that day and not show up for the vote.
This whole fiasco typifies what happens when you’ve got an incompetent, confused leader at the helm of your party. The Liberals are currently singing from about 50 different song sheets. The fact that Dion is also a lame duck leader merely adds to the chaos.
Where are other Lib MP’s hiding? I’d love to hear what Rota has to say.Think I’ll e-mail him.
Why are they so quiet? Surely they haven’t been told to ‘toe the line’. That’s something the Libs don’t like , right?
Maybe the Tories will go away for the weekend and on Monday present the Financial Statement in two parts:
Part 1) The cutting of the political subsidy
Part 2) The rest of it
This would force the parties to vote up or down on the political subsidy. This would leave no room to hide.
Another factor is how do individual MPs feel about returning to their constituents again after only a few weeks. It will be their jobs on the line and they probably haven’t paid all their campaign bills yet.
No- I think the talk of election will fizzle. The coalition if it happens will not last long. Bit of a pickle really. Poor Iggy probably wishes he was back at Harvard no that he is involved in a two-front war.
I’m not so sure things will go the Cons way on this. I actually support removing the public support for political parties BUT over an extended timeline of 5 years. Wasn’t it just the Conservatives a few weeks ago saying that they would try to get along with the opposition parties? The proof is trying to chop their legs off knowing that the other parties are much more financially shakey.
Harper should do a compromise of reducing funding over 5 years allowing the other parties time to get their financial books in order and getting out there and raising their money. To do otherwise shows that it is purely Machavellian and really is trying to undermine Canadian democracy by putting muzzles on hteir opposition. I’m not so sure the electorate will be angry at the opposition — I think the anger could point front and centre at the Conservatives if the opposition phrases it as a crisis of democracy.
Since we all pay for the thing anyway, we may as well have our say:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/polls/political-subsidies.html
another poorly disguised way for Ontario and Quebec to run things no matter what the outcome of the election.
FREE THE WEST
I think we should allow that the Liberals do need their subsidies. Donations have dried up and not being in power has prevented them from stealing money. What else can they do?
Anyone here think Harper might give them a way out? As usual, Harper is probably going not to where the puck is, but where the puck is going to be.
Oh so this is the REAL reason why the leftards want to ban guns!
At 8:42 a.m.:
Globe and Mail poll: “Should the opposition parties support the Conservative government’s economic package?”
Yes: 49%. No: 51%
Now:
Yes: 56%. No: 44%
VOTE!
Thousand mile stare at the midget clowns racing around in their little tiny fire truck with buckets of confetti and spotted Chihuahua across the gallery.
Don’t speak, don’t blink.
Go Prime Minister Steve.