The recent announcement by Stephen Harper that Canada is for all intents and purposes out of Afghanistan come 2011, has raised some eyebrows. My views, which I admit are harsh, can be found at Celestial Junk:
All these valid concerns though, have little to do with PM Harper’s choice of words and choice of timing in announcing that we are out of the fight in 2 years. His words do nothing to get NATO to step it up; they do nothing but reduce morale within the forces, they shock and hurt the families of those who have died fighting, and most important, his words give greater comfort to the Taliban than Jack Layton ever could.
The Torch, which is likely Canada’s most level-headed military blog, has a wealth of opinion:
It’s important, right up to the time that I have to win an election
A modest Middle Ground Proposal
Brits Struggling With the Long Term
Whether to stay with the fight or pull out is not a simple question … in fact, it’s incredibly complex. The ramifications of either fight or flight are enormous … and neither is pretty. At the extremes there are those who scoff at the notion that the Afghan conflict is even winnable to those who’d simply nuke the whole region. Neither of these viewpoints offer anything constructive.
Appeal to experts can also be faulty, simply because there are too many self-styled experts, from Muslim talking heads to think-tanks with agendas. Often, the most valuable input can be found among the more lowly, like the LAV gunner who’s on his 3rd tour, or the Kandhar female doctor who loves her country so much she is willing to risk all. Journalists are usually of little help simply because most of them have proven to be as agenda driven as the most raucous of bloggers. There are rare exceptions like Michael Yon, who deliver the good, bad, and ugly with frankness … but they are rare and outside the mainstream. Experts who are “elected” of course, are driven by the pack and seldom … if ever … show the courage to go against the mob.
Perhaps, it’s actually a very simple issue … all about Will.
I have suspected for a while that our society lacks the will, at least in the majority, to defend itself, that the west is in decline. This is another little tick in that column.
Some days it seems inevitable that at worst, I will be dressing my wife in a burkha, and at best, it will only be my daughters.
One thing is for sure, I will be damned before I spill any of my blood defending the cut and run lot.
I AM rather curious as to why Canadians are in Afghanistan in the first place. Where does it say that we ought to care what sort of hell a bunch of backward, clannish types clinging to a medieval society want to create for themselves? All anyone ought to be worrying about is containment.
I think we need to hear more from Harper on the logic of his announcement. Something does not add up. If it is all about the election then does he think he will gain more votes from wimpy Canadians than he will lose from people who supported the fight for freedom?
911-type containment?
The majority of the people of Canada, as sad as it is, do not support this mission. The parliament of Canada has voted to end the mission. Both are closely related to narrow minded hatred of America and Bush and ignore the UN mandate for what we are doing.
It is rich in the extreme for the MSM now to be flaying PMSH for doing what the people want and Parliament has voted on.
PMSH said the mission as we know it is over in 2011 – 2.5 more years. I agree.
It is time the Afghanis step. 9 years is enough time for them to get motivated and organized as a military force than can offer basic security – they don’t need to be trained to execute complex Corps level combines Arms operations. Hell, we fought WW1 ans WW2 in ten years.
It is time our “allies” in NATO (some exclusions) stepped up. IF PMSH doesn’t call them with a fixed deadline, they will be happy to sit back in the safe ares, pretend they contributing and be all pious & moral.
PMSH – the right move has been made. The key phrase (the mission as we know it is over) means we will still be involved, still support NATO and still continue to deliver on our mission.
Our mission has never been to defeat the Taliban, to occupy the country or be a permanent garrison.
The mission was and remains to buy some time for the Afghanis. The mission is being delivered on with the lives of our soldiers. 9 years is enough time.
We have other military priorities that need our attention. Our neighbour the Bear is awake form hibernation and he’s grumpy, hungry and rich. Our North needs boots on the ground, submarines under the ice, ships in the Ocean, patrol aircraft, helicopters and UAV’s in the skies – none of which we have now.
Our troops have done a fantastic job in Afghanistan and continue to do so. They can be proud of their work and achievements – no NATO contingent is dong more on a per troop basis.
Canada can be proud, especially the families who have been impacted by loss or injury, that their efforts have not been in vain.
Our military has performed above and beyond the call.
First of all I am very proud of our troops and their commitment to the Mission. I would like very much for Stephen Harper to explain the thinking behind this announcement. What does he know that we do not?
cheerts Bubba
Bubba, He knows the Americans are coming: EN MASSE! Of course our MSM conveniently omitted to mention that while bashing Harper.
There is a surge in preparation. US soldiers in Iraq will be sent to the Ghan:
“The US President George W Bush says the United States will send another 4,500 troops to Afghanistan before the end of his presidency.
Mr Bush says a marine batallion originally intended for Iraq will arrive in Afghanistan in November.
The President says that while terrorists are stepping up their efforts in Afghanistan, the security situation in Iraq is continuing to improve and 8,000 American troops will come home by February.
“While the enemy in Iraq is dangerous, we have seized the offensive,” he said.
“Iraqi forces are becoming increasingly capable of leading and winning the fight – as a result we’ve been able to carry out a policy of return on success.
“Reducing American combat forces in Iraq as conditions on the ground continue to improve”
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/200809/s2360274.htm?tab=latest
Even though I would like the mission to end when it is completed,as in victory ,I do agree with much of what Fred above says. However this announcement and the Lizzie May backdown have left a sour taste in my mouth. I will still be voting for Harper,but I do hope that he is worth it and does not turn into conservative-lite.
I’m a huge supporter of our military and consider myself a “Red Ensign” Canadian – proud of our past heritage and ashamed of what Trudeau has turned our nation into.
Having said that, I agree with Ed Teach when he asks why we should be involved with such a backwards country. I hear the stories from our warriors about the good they are doing and the girls going to school and the medicines and health issues Canadian troops are assisting with, but I also see a civilization that doesn’t look it’s wants to change, doesn’t look like it’s going to change and the instant the good guys leave (that’s us, the Americans and the Brits) they’ll just revert back to killing each other, oppressing women and killing off gays. Sorry but they’re savages.
I also agree with Kevin who says he won’t spill any of his blood defending the cut n run lot. I wouldn’t defend any pansy-a$$ Liberals either! But don’t accuse me of being cut and run! Ten years (which is how long Canada will have been in Afstan in 2011) is long enough for the Stani’s to start taking control themselves. If they can’t get it together by that time then it’s their problem, not ours.
Paul, how about containment such as banning young Muzzies from moving to or visiting Canada? Yeah, yeah, I know it’ll never happen, but really that’s what it’s going to take. Killing them off over in Afstan isn’t even half the battle. We have our own PM-head-chopping terrorists to deal with and the Afstan war hasn’t helped now, has it?
I’m NOT suggesting we cut n run because we’re scared of these little Shiites, I’m suggesting we bring our forces back to Canada. I’m tired of Cdn’s dying on someone’s very unappreciative behalf.
Grind a Grit: There’s much less to president Bush’s announcement than the media (US and Canadian) have been uncritically reporting–see this “Torch” post:
‘Afstan: A very “quiet surge” indeed by US/Canadian “journalism”‘
Mark
Ottawa
Couldn’t agree more with you Fred, Harper was placed in a difficult situation by the outgoing Liberal government who committed us to this expedition. As a minority government he had little choice but to get a consensus from Parliament. The Liberals, NDP and the Bloc forced us into a withdrawl at a specific time, it may not have been Harper’s choice but that is academeic. We are invoved in a UN sanctioned effort to democratize Afghanistan not a war of aggression, it cannot go on forever. We have neither the material nor manpower in this country to accomplish the task that we were assigned. Better to bring the troops home at the specified time in order to prepare and equip them for the upcoming religious wars that will occur in Europe in the next ten or fifteen years or so.
Atenor, I agree with you up to a point. My question to you is “why should we bother fighting for Europe?” They’re doing it to themselves! I have relatives buried over there from both world wars. When are they going to learn to stick up for themselves?
I’m sure I’m going to get labelled a racist or uncaring bastard for my comments, but I have a hard time supporting people who
1. create their own problems (Europe) OR
2. are provided assistance but never stick up for themselves after that (the Afstani’s).
Ed T
Evil will always find somewhere to prey on the weak. While it preys on the weak it festers and grows until it can move out an continue to prey on those that are weaker. Knowing this truth, to stand by and witness evil, is evil in itself. Evil must be eradicated, the only question is how much are you willing to spend in resources. Like anything in life, the cost is always in a state of inflation.
This is why Obumma’s strategy to leave Iraq and then return if need be is ridiculous, why allow the enemy to recover and continue to fester?
“today, we are all Georgians”
J.McCain
I fail to see how this is an insult to the troops. There job as stated by Parliament, is done in 2011. Does it only make them feel better if this is a permanent job?
Doesnt make sense to me. It is time for Canada to rotate out of being the point of the spear in Afghanistan, we have done it well without a lot of support. I have no issue continuing but alternatively, it is fair for us to take a rest and regroup equipment and men. I think there are other battles coming.
“War is merely politics, by other means.”
Clausewitz
True back then, still true today.
Which is why “Hope has two lovely daughters; anger and courage. Anger at what is wrong and courage to set things right.”
St. Augustine of Hippo would know how to motivate Cornelius the Centurion. The other option is to be starved out by the Vandals.
h/t to Cjunk on the WILL to fight.
It is not that one goes looking for a fight, only that one finds it NECESSARY for self preservation.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
“Atenor, I agree with you up to a point. My question to you is “why should we bother fighting for Europe?” They’re doing it to themselves! I have relatives buried over there from both world wars. When are they going to learn to stick up for themselves?
I’m sure I’m going to get labelled a racist or uncaring bastard for my comments, but I have a hard time supporting people who
1. create their own problems (Europe) OR
2. are provided assistance but never stick up for themselves after that (the Afstani’s).
Posted by: Bacardi Breezer at September 12, 2008 4:44 PM ”
Could not agree more.WE,as in Canada,have given enough blood over two wars to these elitist parasites called Europeans.They have created their own problems with their namby-pamby,hug-a-thug rules,they can damn well live by them,without our help.They will either grow-up really fast and defend themselves,or fade out as the loser civilizations,(countries) they are, and deserve.
Suspect Harper has discussed privately with “W” before throwing him under the bus publicly. Also, it may be about the mini-surge to Afghanistan, and your PM knows more about what is coming downstream than can be relayed around the world.
Thinking it through from a space-shuttle perspective, whether the Dims or the ‘Pubs are in office, there is a day of reckoning coming. The U. S. cannot afford to continue fighting wars with only token assistance from the “old” European “allies.” They’re either in, or they’re on their own. If they want to live under sharia law, be my guest. The best and brightest will continue to migrate here. The rest can return to enviro-heaven, living off the land in some form of bedoin, tribal enclaves. Me, I’ll continue to row the gears through to triple digits whenever the opportunity presents itself, wander over to check out the latest releases with a foo-foo coffee at B & N before strolling home to the little house in the cornfields.
I hesitate to criticize the Afghan people since they have lost so many potential leaders from the ground up over the years and years of war. Same thing in Iraq. How many potential leaders were killed by Saddam and his henchmen. It is easy for us to ask why there is not enough of a new generation of leaders coming on or even educated people to be the professionals in society.
Still I believe since most of the other NATO countries have not stepped up, we must put a deadline. There will probably be other parts of the world where we can do our bit, make no mistake.
If there is enough security we can continue to supply aid and experienced help to rebuild the country.
PMSH (PM S-Head) Did this to gain seats in Quebec. Withih a heart beat of comming out ahead this turkey turned into a regressive conservative. He turned his back on the west and went after quebec votes. I personally will not vote in this election because there is no-one to vote for and I refuse to vote against thus giving some other “Honest politician” a buck seventyfive or what ever it is, it’s at least #10.00 more than their worth.
It would do my heart good to see the west turn its collective back on this jerk and his wimped out party.
It is puzzling to me why some of the wealthiest countries in the world cannot seem to motivate a country like Afghanistan which is the poorest. Even the simplest of solutions like the old joke about stopping a revolution by hiring half the population to shoot the other half seems more logical than what seems to be going on there. Perhaps that is the key, except instead of hiring half the population to stop a revolution, they should hire half to start one.
Penny: There is no way, by any reasonable standard, that Afghans will be able to run their own affairs for the next 10 years … not until this generation of children, the first ever educated one, hits adulthood. Of course, we’ll be out 2011 … so once again it’ll all falls on the Yanks.
Cpl. Dustin Wasden, who I had the pleasure of teaching when he was a child, was killed in Afghanistan just this past month. This is what he said before he shipped out:
“Are we not doing it for the kids?”
Canadian soldiers know what it’s about … they know that Afghanistan is a barbaric place … but they also know where the hope lies. Harper’s focus is Quebec votes … little else … especially in light of his words to Canadian forces in 2007:
“I don’t see the United Nations telling Canada to leave on a certain date, or the Canadian military urging me to pull out on certain date, or the military families to do that,” he said. “I don’t see our allies urging us to do that. In fact I see allies like Australia that are increasing their commitment.”
I will still vote, but my ballot will be spoiled. This decision is an absolute slap to the face of every man and woman who has worn Her Majesty’s uniform for this country.
This insistence on a deadline of 2011 is the manifestation of a combination of factors. The first is, unfortunately, short term political expediency or necessity, i.e. the Prime Minister is not, nor can he be a king. His power is limited by parliament and the electorate. Politics being “the art of the possible”, PMSH faces a dilemma: advocate doing what he (hopefully) truly wants to do i.e. stay until the job’s done and risk completely losing influence over events, throw in the towel, thereby pandering to short-sighted defeatists and possibly gaining greater parliamentary clout for the next four years, or advocate a middle term option in the hopes that other players in the western world can be made to see sense and take on a greater share of their collective responsibility.
The second is what I refer to as “overdomestication”, a concept alluded to by Kate in her National Post column to the effect that what we need is a famine. There seems to be a misconception in Canada that wars/conflicts are like the Bridge Club — “I don’t think I want to go this week, honey.” Wars are more like fires, fight them and risk being consumed or ignore them and be certainly consumed. The fire may be smouldering at a distance now, but make no mistake, we are the enemy of the Taliban and their Jihadist fellow travellers. We are their enemies for who we are. We don’t have to do anything to be their enemies other than fail to submit to them absolutely. Even then, we’d probably find that the rules would keep changing. (See my previous posts on abuse).
As to why we should be there in the first place, I see a couple of compelling reasons, the first self interested, the second altruistic and the two inextricably linked. The Islamofascists hate us. They hate us in the same way as the Nazis hated the Jews — slightly different “reasoning” but just as twisted and irrational. As such, they could and would do us far more injury if they had complete control over an independent, sovereign nation i.e. Afghanistan. It would be an excellent safe haven, provide them virtually unfettered, limitless finances, and a virtually limitless number of indoctrinees becoming recruits. If the present security situation is marginal, a Taliban-controlled Afghanistan would make our security situation nearly impossible. Containment would be practically impossible.
Altruistically, the Afghans are people too. We take some national pride in helping the poor, ignorant down-trodden of the world. Well, there they are. Given the choice, most people raised in a country with an educated population, a reasonably functioning economy, decent public health, an exposure to a variety of ideas and a democratic/representative government don’t choose to suddenly go off and blow up people on the other side of the world for no reason other than that those people happen to be different. Suspicion and even animosity may exist to be sure. But we don’t seem to be plagued by large numbers of Buddhist, Taoist, Shinto, Animist or Hindu suicide bombers demanding that we in the west submit to their world view. In short, if the Afghans are better off, we’re better off. How long would this transformation take? I’d guess one to two generations. That’s how long it took in Germany and Japan, (even less) and what a transformation! If anything they’ve gone too far the other way. The Germans appear to have gone from hellbent on militaristic territorial expansion and “lebensraum” to blind indifference to even their own long term self preservation.
This is not to say that “hot” operations need continue for two generations. But stabilization may take that long. We should be prepared for it.
Containment by contrast will pass the initiative wholly to the enemy in violation of a core principle of defensive warfare, aggressive action. It would allow the enemy to attack when they see fit, rest a recuperate when the see fit, probe, analyze, take a breather and experiment. It would push us into internal security measures which may transform us into something we may not recognize and almost certainly would not want. It is a formula for war without end.
I do fear that Stephen Harper is just what his opponents say he is: a little man, a kitchen autocrat,
without a grasp of the important issues, a political opportunist, without honesty.
He lacks the nutty integrity of Stephane Dion, who will pursue a policy he believes in, even if it wrecks his party and the country.
I’m wondering about some re-actions here. The 2011 date wasn’t pulled out of hat this week.
I suspect that Harper will do whatever suits him and ignore the 2011 pull-out date just as readily as he ignored the “set-in-stone” election date. If he feels that staying in Afghanistan at that point is the right thing to do I’m pretty sure he will given his past performance on this file.
Nothing to get riled over.
bluetech: Parliament left a lot of wiggle room. It was an extension of the mission until 2011. The door was always open for a further “extension”.
“I suspect that Harper will do whatever suits him and ignore the 2011 pull-out date just as readily as he ignored the “set-in-stone” election date. If he feels that staying in Afghanistan at that point is the right thing to do I’m pretty sure he will given his past performance on this file.
Nothing to get riled over.”
Thats not the point. I don’t want to see compromise any longer. What better oppertunity to argue the validity of the mission than during a national election? Lets have it, as a prime issue, front and center, and lets decide what exactly this mission is worth, and exactly what sort of will, we have, as a nation.
To Bacardi B. & Just T. , the reason to return to fight in Europe is because I’d sooner fight the enemy there than on St Catherine’s, Yonge, or Portage and Main. If the appeasers in the west have their way we will be fighting another war, make no mistake. We have been accommodating other cultures for too long in the west, one only has to look at the way our media have been supporting the troops and our way of life to realize that it has already begun. Islamic protest in Europe over cartoons, no-go areas in Britain and France, a leader in an English church recommending Sharia law, mosques in all western countries being allowed to preach hate and racism to Muslims as religion, the list goes on and on. Make no mistake this is the ‘Domino Principal’ that America was afraid of happening in SE Asia, problem is it is not Communism at work here it is religion and that has been causing wars for thousands of years.
For all those for PMSH, please read this “Torch” post mentioned in the SDA post itself:
“A modest Middle Ground Proposal”
Mark
Ottawa
Fight; or Flight
“Great things are always within our reach.
Fight with me.
Fight with me.
Fight for what’s right for our country.”
John McCain RNC Convention 2008
As opposed to:
“2011”
Stephen Harper 09/12/08
Victory in Afghanistan was achieved with the overthrow of the Taliban way back in November of 2001. What is going on there now is a pointless and endless occupation, ostensibly to convert a nation of low-intelligence, ultraviolent, tribalistic death-cultists into peace-loving, liberal, democratic multiculturalists. It won’t work, period.
Our troops have done an excellent job under the circumstances, but they cannot be realistically expected to change the very nature of Afghanistan. It’s not in our national interest to try to micromanage the internal affairs of any foreign nation, particularly an utterly backward Muslim nation. The wisest course of action of course would be to ban all further Muslim immigration completely and permanently. Non-citizen Muslim residents and convicted criminal immigrants should be deported forthwith, and Muslim citizens should be paid off, say $20,000 each, to leave Canada forever. Those who choose to stay should know that our security services will be watching them like hawks.
Kudos to Stephen Harper for putting an end-date on this hopeless occupation. The Conservatives shouldn’t be held responsible for this deeply unpopular mission, which was, let us remember, the Liberal Party’s idea in the first place.
I’m not terribly concerned about Harpers announcement. Once again, narcissistic Canadians are over estimating their influence, Harpers comments will not hurt the war effort or endanger our troops. Harper has done exactly what he has promised, he’s shown leadership(unlike Dion).
Has it occurred to anyone that Harper was serious when the Cons and the Liberals came together on this file? As others have mentioned this war is much bigger than we perceive, and contributions can be made in many ways and different places. People who are discussed by Harpers announcement need to take their foot off the gas for a few seconds. These people are trying to predict the future with very little information. You people appear to be looking for a reason not to vote Conservative and this issue is a convenient scape-goat.
Dion’s silence on this is another example of the Liberals poor strategy, and Dion’s lack of leadership or understanding of the term. Dion should have supported Harper publicly on this, that would have been consistent, instead he just looks like Dion. The Conservatives are not winning this election because they are so great, the Liberals are losing because they cannot show the slightest bit of stability. The one bill they actually voted for, they can’t even stand up for. Harper knew this, THIS IS HIS STRATEGY, he is a political genius.
Liberal’s poor strategy
oops
The fight in Afghanistan has barely begun. Together with Pakistan, it is the centre of the war against Islamic extremism. We should not be pulling out until the job is done. Rather than selecting arbitrary dates to leave, we should be re-examining our strategy to ensure victory. It’s what the Americans did in Iraq and it is what NATO needs to do in Afghanistan.
I see this announcement as nothing more than what we in the military already knew. That being the end of the Battle Group rotations into the sandbox. The Battle Group only represents a portion of our comittment to Task Force Afghanistan (TFA) with the others large ones being the Opertional Mentoring and Liaison Team (OMLT) the Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team (KPRT) and the National Support Element (NSE). Unfortunately those in the general population and the media lack the basic understanding of a modern military and equate everything in TFA to the Battle Group and the end of its mission is seen as the end of Afghanistan as a whole. The MND made it clear that we would continue to have a mentoring and reconstruction role post 2011, which means that upwards of 2/3 of the CF elements would still be in theatre, and don’t think that this means no more fighting and taking it to the enemy, the OMLT does the majority of the fighting these days as the mission has evolved. The goal has always been to hand over the responsibilities of the Battle Group as they currently exist to the Afghans (pet peeve of mine is seeing people refer to the people of Afghanistan as Afghanis, they are Afghans and their currency is the Afghani). I would suggest that everyone calm down and realise that this has been expected for a long time, and not to through away your vote in frustration based around the usual poor reporting of the msm.
Well Andrew, this member of the military utterly disagrees with you.
Harper is an complete disgrace.
This country deserves Dion.
Thank you, Andrew, for the helpful post. The UN-sanctioned mission to Afghanistan is the responsibility of NATO, made up largely of those cynical, indifferent, and unreliable nations that we have supported for over 50 years to which we still send soldiers. Canada has done more than its share in recent years in NATO’s operations. I applaud Mr Harper for serving notice on NATO that if the Afghans need more military support after 2011, it should be coming from those allies whose carbon taxes, social services, and opinions on American politics are so dear to readers of the Globe & Mail.
Harper stay until yeat 2011 doing what?
what is the plan
this is not Canadian too much coffee break TIME
that they only have half an hour coffee tiem tehy will go every hour for break
what the plan is!!
just stay there so far in past 4 years what they did ?
how the money spend there? how many troop are there? is Canad got money from other organization to spend more for build teh hosue there
I met few Candain few years ago when we wnat to do any project we said ok let do this they move riht left and delay and do like turtel
and when we asked htem speed up they said oh you are focring or bossing us
now the TIME is money what they plan to do in that period stay thre play with fly or coffee break because may be Canda is so much snow and Afgnestan are warmer
in fact Afgani people i know lots of them in Canda are very hard working people but small percentage of them who were ruber real danger too I still hear there is not security not delvopment in real meaning there
stay there until 2011 is vage and wast time and money
Canda can do so many job there even made some manfcure there for use small pay labor there insted of bring labor to china or south america
we need more detail and plan Mr. Dear Haper
talk specific what is detail plan next?
over what cost you will stay longer and what we gain at the end of day?
I really when I see lazy some Canadian who never vlaue time is money because they purposly wast the time to say my job finish but never do good job because they do not like to made Afaniatan get devlope any thing theyo nly like to wast thier time for hope for doing nothing may be!!
Sorry Atenor but I disagree again. If fighting breaks out in Europe between the Muslims and the civilized world we can be in just as much trouble here. Fighting them over there isn’t going to protect us over here. All the problems in Europe are caused by immigration and multiculturalism which is exactly what we have here.
for my in summarize of above
some one force Harper to do that misson by force that was not volenteer by Candaina for sure
eiter UN or Bush
now he stock he does not like to help Afgantan if he like to help them should do any job done so far he hate Muslim to get grow inright direction
Haper only wait and watch the time say 5Pm
my job done my 8 years finish every body back home
i saw so many in Canda do when they like to deal with Muslim intentionaly with full hate delaynot do the job on the time gossip bring dum group in team to not forward the project becaue they hate Muslim
as I said you neve expect Conservation or republication do help Muslim for morlity to like them they do to fix their past mistake to wash their hand we are not guilty that is all
otherwise past 4 years proof next 4 years haper will not going to do any job since he hate Muslim period he only like Ahmadidh mosque in Canda
“I see this announcement as nothing more than what we in the military already knew. That being the end of the Battle Group rotations into the sandbox. The Battle Group only represents a portion of our comittment to Task Force Afghanistan (TFA) with the others large ones being the Opertional Mentoring and Liaison Team (OMLT) the Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team (KPRT) and the National Support Element (NSE). Unfortunately those in the general population and the media lack the basic understanding of a modern military and equate everything in TFA to the Battle Group and the end of its mission is seen as the end of Afghanistan as a whole. The MND made it clear that we would continue to have a mentoring and reconstruction role post 2011, which means that upwards of 2/3 of the CF elements would still be in theatre, and don’t think that this means no more fighting and taking it to the enemy, the OMLT does the majority of the fighting these days as the mission has evolved. The goal has always been to hand over the responsibilities of the Battle Group as they currently exist to the Afghans (pet peeve of mine is seeing people refer to the people of Afghanistan as Afghanis, they are Afghans and their currency is the Afghani). I would suggest that everyone calm down and realise that this has been expected for a long time, and not to through away your vote in frustration based around the usual poor reporting of the msm.”
A 1/3 reduction. Is that how Canadians are supposed to interprut this:
“I don’t want to say we won’t have a single troop there, because obviously, we would aid in some technical capacities. But, at that point, the mission as we’ve known it, we intend to end,” Harper said, adding his party would propose to maintain “some presence” in the country after 2011, but with a focus mostly on reconstruction and development.
The CPC is throwing it off the table for the sake of winning the election. In my books, this will not do. We’ve gotta be open and honest about it; too much is at stake and too many have died to play politics on this one.
Actually Harper played this just right. There is no advantage in debating the Afghanistan mission during election 2008. Nothing is going to change before 2011 and in 2011 a decision will be made about our struggle in Afghanistan.
Has anybody considered the fact, that if Quebec were taken out of the polling equation, support for the mission would be significant.
there is not advantage of debating in 2008 because all is disadvantage and will be disadvantage for all of us
you only hold the horse you white Candaian Enlgish be the boss the rest is BS you know that
you never go to help Afgani or any Muslim there
look all of your judges in canada are most of them were so far BS complet say all order against Muslim ” no cause of action” in civil court because they hate Muslim
so far waht do you expect poor Haper to ac fairly
support for mission of racist Irish Scotich German Catholic
if Paul you have any more authority you get Muslim balck French and others out
why do not you not get lost of this country we can breath peacfully
all war so far start from Englsih White to the world under all execuse if you big ass stop this war and hate world does not need any mission impossible to accomplish
you are so funny and blind and ignorant
the main problmes is conservaiteand republican who start all those war in past century and now need to get every body even french out
do you like any other race except yourself?
NAHHHHH nops
Actually new if we really wanted to kill Muslims we would leave Muslims to their own designs. After all Muslims are far more efficient at killing Muslims than we “white Canadian Enlgish” will ever be.
BTW didn’t you hear mommy telling you to go to bed? Nighty night.
In Islam said Monafeq is worth than Kafer
moanfeq is used for group of peopl as you exactly describe if you like to both group kill each other you go to each and say the lie and come out and let these two hate each otehr and you get fish in muddy river that is culture of
English people my mother told me day one when I arrive in Canada because my mother when she was 15 was among so many English people she adviced me that becarefull about Enlgish people never trust them quickly because tehy are cut your
head by feather by talk nice by take your carpet pull under your feet to fell down
now when I saw in Canada I trust her advice that she really my mother know culture of Englsih
because all war you call it WAR in middle east is waht you made up tolet us kill each other
I remember how Americna sold weapn to both groups to let kill each otehr
as you also said do not talk about afganstan
as I live long among WHite English Candain i have no trust you go to Afganstan to help anybody
my mother always give me freedom for anything I like except being bad person and do anything god forbid us and she always tells me never listen to nobody except fear of god what you do not have one
I can not handle all racist and hate from you some times that is all, I come here to fix you and your culture some may back still some will go for sure to hell as god told those to bad people hell will wait for them this is only for believer not for ignoranc
good night
Armchair generals, like armchair detectives are a usually far distance from reality. Like my old uncle from Alberta used to say. It’s time we got the f@#$ out of there!! In any event, it’s the damned Liberals who got is than mess in first place.
On second thought, I think PM Stephen Harper is double tracking, as it puts other NATO partners on notice to step up to the plate and augur for more troops as many analysts have been calling for.
In short, a tactical u-turn for a greater strategic goal of getting more troops for ISAF, which down the road would be would be better for Canadian boots on the ground already.
Secondly, it shrewdly picks up a few moderate voters in Canada. Not a bad short term tactic.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”