Is there nothing that Obama can’t do?
…a Maariv spokesperson says that publication of the note was pre-approved for international publication by the Obama campaign, leading to the conclusion that the “private” prayer was intentionally leaked for public consumption.
When I began learning about Christianity I was taught that prayer for show is not true prayer because the intention underlying the act is to put on a show for others, not to communicate with God.
If Mr. Obama is so fortunate as to achieve our neighbour’s highest office, one can only hope that his private prayers mirror his public one … or that God has enough of a sense of humour to answer them positively despite their cyncial origin.
Ken, no one is doubting that Marriv is claiming the Obama campaign approved it. What I’m asking is why there isn’t any other corroboration available. Who approved it, and when? Or better, how about the Obama campaign saying yes, we released the content of the note beforehand but certainly did not expect someone to take the actual note out of the wall.
Kate said a second paper agreed that it was pre-authorized for release. So apparently the corroboration I’m looking for exists, but sadly, I can’t find it myself, so I’m asking for help with some links.
This is the claim I want to see corroborated.
“They received a copy of the note in advance.
Posted by: Kate at July 29, 2008 11:12 AM”
And I’m not trying to defend Obama’s honour. I couldn’t care less about Obama. I care about the fact that this note was taken from the wall and published. I care about the callousness displayed by Marriiv in publishing it, then saying “he’s not a jew so he doesn’t have a right to privacy.” So what, if I put a prayer in the wall i ought to expect it could be read and printed?
If, on the other hand, the Obama campaign released it in advance then the damage done to the integrity of the site itself, not the paper mind you, but the site itself will be much reduced in my eyes.
Regards,
I think the first thing any responsible journalist would do would be to Fact Check that note by pulling the second copy from the wall.
I’d be interested in knowing if their is a difference between the two notes.
“Which would be fine, except you’ve taken this vague claim and then ran with it as if it were true”
Vague claim? Maariv’s claim was specific.
“Let’s put a stop to the two minute hate”
Either list an example of the “hate” on this thread you want to stop or admit that in your mind criticizing Obama constitutes “hate”.
timr. i did not see any rational response to your post. you are right. the scoffers are always wrong. pray in private. let god know you want to talk with Him as opposed to the public.
“Vague claim? Maariv’s claim was specific.”
Fine, vague or specific, let’s just get it corroborated can we please, so that we can just move on? The only reason I wished it was more specific is that its easier to fact check Robert Bills authorized the release than the Obama Campaign authorized the release. But all I care about is getting it from more than one source that it was authorized for release. Especially when the only source I can find making the claim is getting a lot of heat at home for being real jerks about it. Religious groups are calling for a protest of the paper.
“Either list an example of the “hate” on this thread you want to stop or admit that in your mind criticizing Obama constitutes “hate”. ”
Sure: Gypsy at July 29, 2008 12:14 AM
Arthur A – you are beginning to annoy me. If you are so intent on constructing a strawman to buffer direct criticism of Obama, have at it, but do so elsewhere.
It is clear that the entire affair was staged. Obama is a hypocrite – a well-nigh universal trait for a politician, including our Canadian ones (Conservatives included). What is over the top is the blatant obviousness of it all.
Obama is an idiot who clearly believes a plurality of voters are idiots.
“…damage done to the integrity of the site itself…”
Please. He is usurping a cultural practise that has NO intersection with his own, one that is tantamount to throwing pennies in a wishing well. Furthermore, the site itself has NO integrity, unless one is a religious Jew (and then the integrity is mere pretense). It is a only a site of historical and archeological interest, nothing more.
Your only example is Gypsy at July 29, 2008 12:14 AM
Then there is you at various points:
slimbag paper
Talk about a tinfoil hat conspiracy
This crap paper is saying
Hmmmm. Not seeing much difference between the two of you.
“If you are so intent on constructing a strawman to buffer direct criticism of Obama, have at it, but do so elsewhere.”
I don’t care about Obama. I don’t have an argument. I have a question. My question is, “is it true that the Obama campaign released this in advance?”
“It is clear that the entire affair was staged.”
Please. He is usurping a cultural practise that has NO intersection with his own, one that is tantamount to throwing pennies in a wishing well. Furthermore, the site itself has NO integrity, unless one is a religious Jew (and then the integrity is mere pretense). It is a only a site of historical and archeological interest, nothing more.
Posted by: Tenebris at July 29, 2008 1:55 PM
“Hmmmm. Not seeing much difference between the two of you.”
Let’s not be distracted by the shiny objects. Hate, love or criticism towards Obama, all of it I do not care about.
Is it true? Was it a pre-authorized release? The only reason I’m asking here is because everyone here is so cock-sure its true. I thought you’d have the links to back it up. All my searches have come up empty.
The Libranos had/have a mole. Perhaps Obama has a mole.
You people are disgusting! There is no proof it was leaked, they have denied it was leaked. The paper now that they are going to be sued, suddenly comes out with this, explanation. Grow a brain. This is incredibly disrespectful, but why should I be suprised when this is a gutter dwelling site. Have you no sense of shame or proper decorum and manners. Sickening!!
You would think the Fox News website would be all over this. I had a quick look and could find nothing. I am starting to wonder if this is not passing the smell test when looked into by the media.
I think we “Canucks” should stay clear of this type of gossip. I`m a card carrying Conservative, yet I still have hopes for Obama. And frankly, I don`t believe the note is authentic!! (Like nost of what we see, read and hear that comes from the USA!!)
If it turns out that this whole “leak” was staged by the Obama campaign, it would remind me of the line by a stand up comedian who said “Guys: Sincerity . . . the women love it. If you can fake that, you’ve got ’em.”
“Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?”
It’s not like this was a new approach.
“There is no proof it was leaked, they have denied it was leaked.”
Well I guess thats it then. If his campaign denied it was leaked it must be so. I mean they never have been caught telling fibs before……. yes they have. His campaign declared
Obama called on Germany to do more in Afghanistan and Iraq in his Berlin Speech.
He did not say anything of the sort. All he did make a vague call to help Iraq in its renewal he addressed it not to Germany, but to the world. HUGE difference.
Todd, your man and his team have been caught in making false statements and fabrications on numerous occasions. Check out this link for the list of 90 so far:
http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/05/documented-lie-50-obama-claimed-he-had.html
and it is
“Protect my family and I”
not
“Protect my family and me”
Protect I? No
Protect me. Yes
You should feel Shaken to the core…
Supposition:
If the Maariv story is a hoax …. IF !
Then we should see the MSM ALL OVER IT decrying it as PROOF of the hate campaign against Obama.
Sort of like Hillary Clinton’s VRWC ….
If it is NOT a hoax … the MSM will BE SILENT … because they need to protect the myth they have created.
GC, and so I do, having received an object lesson.
Shaken: if I had to choose between your example of humility and Obama’s, the choice is clear. Thanks.
I assumed it was planted for effect. One cannot innocently believe that a “future POTUS” would leave a piece of writing in a public place an dnot pick it up.
But, what effect? It’s all about ME ME ME!!! And, more modestly, that he may be an instrument of God.
Hey, has anyone noticed that the Ubermessiah has big, ugly ears that rival those of the Prince Of Whales. [sic]
Maybe we could get them into a public fly-off 🙂
Kate: “did you miss the words “pre-approved for international publication by the Obama campaign””
Wrong again, Kate!
FoxNews: “Student apologizes for stealing Obama prayer from Western Wall”
“The student, in an appearance on Israeli TV2, said…a bunch of friends were at the Wall, and he is not sure who took the note out. One of his friends said he found it on the floor. Another said he took it from the wall. Later on, they tried to sell it to an Israeli newspaper.”
There’s also an interesting entry on TNR’s Plank blog entitled “Obama Vindicated?” that you’ll no doubt ignore/dismiss.
So let’s get this straight: you’re staying that
(1) Obama’s camp pre-approved the note for publication,
(2) Obama’s camp then provided copies to Israeli newspapers after he left his hotel,
(3) Obama’s camp somehow guessed that an Israeli seminary student would filch the note from the wall and bring it to the same newspapers who already have a copy of it, and
(4) the same student would later go on national TV and apologize for taking the note from the wall and trying to sell it to the papers.
HAHAHAHA!!! There you go again, criticizing the MSM when they print stuff you don’t like, but completely taking everything they say on faith as long as you like what you hear.
Be honest, dear: wouldn’t you be perfectly happy with a biased MSM, as long as they’re biased in your direction?
The Talmud says that the Lord answers all prayers: sometimes, the answer is no.
TO: Mr. Obama
I have a questionfor Obama
his team can answer me please thans.
Clear what god he refering too ?
Now we have to ask Obama clear his view after he back from middle east we need to knwo
does he talk with Muslim god or talk with christian god?
If he really is Muslim he shoudl not shy to tell them I know he may scare to say it since AMerican are racist and may discriminate him but if I were him I clear my god standing
who he refering too and clear his past for us
thansk if he is Muslim we welcome him among Muslim community alot
if he is christian try not to spread three god plese thanks again
please some one respond from Obama support team not anybody else to respond me
One God? You silly little man. Why do you think allah/sin/moon refers to himself as “we” throughout the Quran? Where do you think Mo got that from? Illah means God in Arabic, who is this allah cretin? Oh, he’s one of 365 gods of the pagan Arabs. He had a wife and two daughters. The blasphemy!
But thanks for making the distinction that allah is only the fabricated Islamic god. Nothing to do with anything else.
Even that Mohamad Cartoon blegin knows more than you Irwin about Isalm and meaning of god
go take look at Ezral levant Mohamd cartoon
in head of Mohamad wrote two senentence in Arabic
you become Muslim in two sentences not anymore
in hat of moham p.b.u. h
in cartoon said in Arabic:
Ash ha do an la ila ha il lal lah
ahs ha do an mohamah en resaul al lah
it means:
we shadat ( it means we agreed ) to say:
we Muslim agred to bleive God is one
and we agred Mohamad is Rasoul or prophet of god
Now if you read the quearion which you never did
it always being god as one is refer alot in this book
—
Stil Irwin you scare to tell public what is relgion of you we like to now
still Obama scared to say to public what is his religion and his belif is
if you are believer you never should scare to say you are Muslim
if Obma is Muslim should not scare of anybody
to hide it
Obam should only fear of god and allah not from any racist American to hid if he is born Muslim and now foreced to his religion for his safty
we need to clear
——
Irwin go and educated yourself you still not say are you Hindo or are you Solman Rushdi seating in your home or not because all of your refernce is wrong
go take look at Blegin mohamd cartoon the guy know more than you what Muslim are talking about about God and Mohamad
first educated yourself then talk otehrwise never Muslim see you seriosly
Just an observation: This person who posts as Ishaq and as Isham have a pretty good patter down fine.
One could almost believe that they were ignorant muslims. Except we are not deceived as we all know that muslims are very refined intellectuals who love intellectual debate, and art, and … oh, wait, I’m lost for words … the word “killing” comes to mind. I have no idea why.
“”The boycott will be lifted,” he added, “after the newspaper publishes a notice, both in Hebrew and in English, apologizing for its lack of sensitivity and for its violation of Senator Obama’s privacy and honor.”
Maariv’s response: “Obama’s note was published in Maariv and other international publications following his authorization to make the content of the note public. Obama submitted a copy of the note to media outlets when he left his hotel in Jerusalem. Moreover, since he is not Jewish, there is no violation of privacy as there would be for a Jewish person who places a note in the wall.”
July 29, 2008 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1006186.html
Ishaq/Isham,
Here’s a quote from the Christian scriptures:
James 2:19
“You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”
Sorry, intended to indicate that excerpt is part of a larger article about the issue.
RW
“”””the word “killing” comes to mind. I have no idea why.””””
you must have missed cassius clay’s finest performance:-))))))
A couple more, Tenebris:
John 16: 2 “the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. (No wonder when they behead they cry allah akbar -god is great-)
And here’s a particularly damning section:
Romans 3: 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known
Ishaq follows the typical debating pattern of Muslims.
When Muslims are told about scores of horrendous facts contained in the Quran, Hadith and Sira, they typically respond as follows:
1. Accuse the person of lying, ignorance, and he should be proficient in Arabic to understand Islam (regardless of the fact that 80% of Muslims don’t know Arabic). Tell him/her to read “authentic” Muslim websites and texts. Say that critics of Islam are “so-called” experts. Say that once a person “learns” about the “real” Islam, he/she will understand how beautiful and peaceful it is.
2. Accuse the person of racism or Islamophobia. Say they are “filled with hate” (this works really well with Liberals!). Restrict your arguments to a specific subject (How Muslims are persecuted and misunderstood). Generalize a lot. Never suggest that a person examine both sides of the issue (that is, compare arguments from anti-Islamic sites with those from Muslims experts). Never refer to the hate and violence Muslims do. Say that the actions of Muslims have nothing to do with Islam.
3. Say that the problem is that Muslims today are not practicing the “Original Islam” of Mohammed and the glorious era of the ‘Four Righteous Caliphs’ that followed him (Do not mention the hate and violence that Mohammad preached and practiced and do not mention that 3 out of the 4 so-called Righteous Caliphs were murdered by Muslims in a fifty year orgy of conquest, greed, violence and rivalry that ended at battle of Kerbala – called the Ashura _ with Muslims fighting Muslims and the heads of Mohammad’s grandson and even infant great-grandson and 70 others being carried in bags as trophies by the victorious Muslim army). Tell them that Islam is really peaceful!
To RW:
are you one of Indian Hindu family memeber seating in Indian house making treat hate crime
or family of member ; cousin of this guy !!!
‘ KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) – An unemployed man said below ….’
If you are please please show yourself to mental hospital before it is too late!!!
”
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) – An unemployed man accused of opening fire with a shotgun and killing two people at a Unitarian church apparently targeted the congregation out of hatred for its liberal social policies, police said Monday.
…
”
and by the way please also try to just do not think any more you become like Irwin
thank you for your cooperation
to Learn about God ( Allah) In Islam:
In the name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful
The Glorious Qur’an is the Word of Allah as revealed to His Prophet, Muhammad, peace be on him and his progeny.
On reading the Qur’an one is at once convinced that it is the Word of Allah, for no man can write such perfect guidance on so many subjects.
The Holy Qur’an says that no man will be able to forge even a part of it and that no corruption shall touch it from any side. It is a miracle that the Holy Qur’an has remained unchanged and unaltered during all these 1400 years and it shall remain so till the Day of Resurrection, for Allah, has taken it on Himself to protect it.
The Book of Allah is like an ocean. The less learned, like children, collect pebbles and shells from its shores. The scholars and thinkers, like pearl divers, bring out from it the highest philosophy, wisdom and rulse of a perfect way of living.
For easy dailiy recitation, the Qur’an is divided into thirty equal parts. One part takes only twenty-four reading minutes, and the whole Book requires twelve reading hours. There are 114 chapters, and 6,226 verses, containing 99,464 words made up of 330, 113 letters.
Quran in Islam:
http://www.al-islam.org/quraninislam/index.htm
2. How does the Precious Qur’an describe God the Exalted?
“Whatever is in the heavens and on earth, declares the Praises and Glory of Allah; for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. It is He Who gives Life and Death; and He has Power over all things. He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent (Hidden). And He has the full knowledge of all things. He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days (stages, long periods, or ages), then He established Himself on the Throne. He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what ascends up to it. And He is with you wheresoever you may be. And Allah sees well all that you do. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. And all affairs go back to Allah. He merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night. And He has the full Knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.” LVII:1‑6
Or:
“Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, the Gracious, the Merciful. Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace, (and Perfection) the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme. Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him. He is Allah, the Creator, the Originator, the Bestower of forms and colours. To Him belong the Most Glorious Names. Whatever is in the heavens and on earth doth declare His Praises and Glory. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.” LIX:22‑24
Or:
“Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving (and causing life), the Eternal Self‑subsisting by Whom all subsist. No slumber can overtake him nor sleep. All things in the heavens and on earth belong to Him. Who is he who can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knoweth what is before them and what is behind them, nor shall they grasp any matter of His knowledge except for what He pleases. His Throne extends over the heavens and earth, and the preservation of them tires Him not. And He is the High, the Supreme.” II:255
Or:
“Say: He Allah is One. Allah is the Absolute Self‑Sufficient. He begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is not a single one to equate with Him.” CXll
There are many more ayat describing the attributes of Allah the Almighty but these few may be sufficient to ask ourselves how we can consider a God who falls short of the qualities extracted from these four ayat. This would mean one who:
* is not being praised and glorified by all beings in the heavens and on earth,
* has no control over the dominion of the heavens and earth (cannot induce rain, earthquake, movement of the celestial bodies, etc.),
* cannot give life and death,
* has no power over all things,
* did not exist from “the Beginning” nor shall last to “the End”,
* is indistinct and affected,
* does not have full Knowledge of all things,
* cannot create the heavens and earth,
* does not know the inflow and outflow of the heavens and earth,
* cannot be with you wheresoever you may be,
* does not see what you do,
* cannot receive all affairs; or all affairs do not go back to him,
* has no power over the emergence of day and night,
* has no knowledge of the secrets of all hearts,
* is not the Absolute Sovereign,
* cannot create nor originate,
* is not everliving,
* is not the Self‑subsisting, and the Absolute Needless,
* gets tired and drowsy, or slumbers,
* is not One (the Only),
* is not the Absolute Self‑sufficient (on Whom all others depend),
* begets or is begotten,
* is like others (taking spouse, having companions and colleagues).
This list can grow rapidly if one uses more ayat which describe Allah’s attributes. It is obvious that one who is affected by a tiny insect and escapes from it cannot be considered The Almighty, no matter what names misguided and misdirected people may assign to him to justify their own belief, and perhaps to deceive and mislead others.
http://www.al-islam.org/glorious_quran/
QUR’ĀN: Alif lām mīm: God willing, we shall describe in the 42nd chapter some things related to the “letter-symbols” that come at the beginning of some chapters. Also, the meaning of the guidance of the Qur’ān and of its being a book will be explained later on.
QUR’ĀN: This Book, there is no doubt in it, (is) a guidance to those who guard (against evil), those who believe in the unseen: Those who guard against evil, or in other words, the pious ones, are the very people who believe. Piety, or guarding oneself against evil, is not a special virtue of any particular group of the believers. It is not like doing good, being humble before God or purity of intention, which are counted as various grades of the faith. Piety, on the other hand, is a comprehensive virtue that runs through all the ranks of the true faith. It is for this reason that Allāh has not reserved this adjective for any particular group of the believers.
…….
————————————–
http://www.al-islam.org/al-mizan/v1/
http://www.al-islam.org/mot/default.asp?url=methods.htm
I’m in a state of awe! Isam has gone from unintelligible babbling:
“for Jewish who selling Kosher water to Madona and belive theybelive god but they deny jesus and Mohamad are not prophet of god are we called them ignorance and still ‘ ahle of book’ means thier prophet has book which Moses or isa has holy book…”
—to readable prose in one short day!! Indeed, Allah is great…;)
Back to the topic at hand ….
There are TWO Israeli papers that say the OBAMA campaign gave them the notice of the note and permission to publish!
Now what does that mean?
“There are TWO Israeli papers that say the OBAMA campaign gave them the notice of the note and permission to publish! Now what does that mean?”
It means you’re slow, OMMAG: – elections.foxnews.com/2008/07/27/student-apologizes-for-stealing-obama-prayer-from-western-wall/
Forgive me, this note is between a guy and God. That, it is Obama or a street cleaner matters not one whit to the big G.
To make it public is unforgivable and if the big G has anything to say about it, He will.
It is not unlike a diary that is written only for those that you chose to read it.
This really has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with human decency.
I’m with you one hundred percent of the time.
There is a limit when it comes to Supreme power.
If someone does not believe that there is the big G, leave it alone then.
If you have ever watched the Cheers, the obnoxious woman, as obnoxious she was, said “Don’t fool with God”.
You don’t have to go along with that if that is your preference, though it would be a big plus if you did.
Why can’t it be both scenarios?
B.O. released the ‘prayer’ for the media hyping stunt, then placed it in the wall.
So perhaps later, a student actually removes the ‘note’ for whatever reasons and now both stories are being tossed as if it was one single event.
while life of presidne is public and they know they will face so many consecuqences but
if really for security reason nobody allow like or not like take any thing with no permision to publish it
or we end up with big mouth Monica Lunski conspriacry and they may worse may come
privacy in every life is important
that is all to it while this note was not importatn but in general
privacy of life and some privae docuement should not release the person in charge must get fired if I were boss of that group or at least one get fired to give lesson to the rest do not take any thing from trash and give to media this is illegal and may end to political conspiracy too
North AMerican culture notlet famouse people to have life really
“intentionally leaked”.
now you get it !!!
I am not surprised at the uber-outrage of lefties with the “violation” of Obama’s privacy. Let’s face it, Obama is the quintessential liberal candidate in that he espouses every moral conviction that the left holds dear. Which is, of course, none at all (except the only true leftie moral of save thy ass at all costs).
This is why useful idiots like arthur come along and argue about whether the font used is Times New Roman or Arial, or other irrelevant crap.
The fact of the matter is everything a pres candidate does in the year before election is scripted, everything! If you don’t believe that then you truly are an idiot!
All of this fuss begs a bigger question: Why would Obama be so presumptious as to leave a note at the Wall in the first place? The Wall is a Jewish icon, not a Christian one. Last I heard, Obama-san wasn’t Jewish, and as the Jewish divinity has indicated, his privacy issues at the wall hold somewhat less value than it might to Jews.
From where I sit, the whole exercise is pompous pandering, and frankly, highly disrespectful of both Jews and Christians. There’s been little to suggest that Obama is devoutly Christian, notwithstanding Obama’s connection with Rev Wright and the Church of the Bizarre.
Looks like someone is getting to the bottom of this:
“I just got off the phone with a Ma’ariv spokesman who says that the accusation is “completely false,” and that he has no idea who these papers were quoting from Ma’ariv. “No official spokesman for Ma’ariv told this to any of the papers.” I’ve got some calls in to these papers to find out where they got the quote. (I’ll update here when I hear back.) He told me definitively that “the Obama campaign did not give us a copy of the letter or approve it for printing.”
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/07/29/obama-vindicated.aspx#comments
Question answered. Was it true? No, it wasn’t.
Now, please continue believing whatever you want to believe about Obama. ‘You’re entitled to your own beliefs, just not your own facts.’ Or something like that.
Arthur A. cries for verification and proof when TWO newspapers report the same thing that he doesn’t like, but then accepts the word of a blog writer verbatim when it is something he does like.
QE, could you please have a chat with Arthur A?
“CNN’s Sasha Johnson, who was a part of a pool of journalists who accompanied Obama to the wall, said when reporters asked Obama what he wrote, he declined to share the contents of his prayer. Obama told the reporters it was a private conversation between him and God, Johnson said.”
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/27/obama.prayer/index.html
So there’s two people contradicting Marriv’s original claim that it was authorized for release.
And if you’ve been following things, it should be pretty clear that the point isn’t about what I’d like to be true, it’s always been about what IS true.
The original story, as posted by Kate, struck me as highly unlikely to be true. I’ve asked for proof. This has “annoyed” some people. But, no one was able to back up this claim, or find out who made the claim, or to whom the claim was made. In other words, no one was able to provide any supporting evidence of Marriv’s claim.
Now, I’ve pointed to two sources, cnn which discredits Marrivs accounts and one blogger who has reportedly spoken to Marriv and quotes them as explicitly denying that they ever claimed they were authorized to release it.