A lone, honest Liberal crawls out of the woodwork…
The Liberal Party’s Green Shift announced on June 19th marked the most aggressive anti-poverty program in 40 years. The ‘shift’ will transfer wealth from rich to poor, from the oil patch to the rest of the country, and from the coffers of big business to the pockets of low-income Canadians. […]
I invite and encourage everyone to visit thegreenshift.ca to see how this comprehensive plan will benefit low-income Canadians. I will continue to work collaboratively with my Liberal colleagues towards a fairer, richer, greener Canada.
Ken Boshcoff’s “Canada” would be the one with a new boundary drawn somewhere west of the Ontario/Manitoba border.
h/t Charles Adler
Update: Editorial response to the fallout from Boschcoff’s commentary at the Netnewsledger.
GYM:
Somebody voted the bastards in … and keep voting them in.
Weren’t us from out west.
If you’re frustrated, c’mon out and help us build Canada’s only relevant economy for the future.
Saskatchewan’s housing prices are a bit lower now, but their roads still suck … they’ve a bit of catching up to do.
FREE THE WEST
Dion’s PHD thesis was on Marxism while he was at a University in socialist France. Does that not ring a few bells about what his true colours are and that is not Green.
His wife is also a well known published advocate of socialism and “progressives” – which is the modern more politically correct way to say communism according to Marx.
Dion wants to be Robin Hood with other people’s money. But we all know the Liberals pretty well ALL have an OPM addiction (Other’s People
Money)…Dion and his radical greeny weenies just take it to a whole “old” level – as socialism(communism) and Marxist regimes are being fought back against in the rest of the world Dion wants to convert Canada to the good old days under DeGaulle when he was a young Marxist citizen of France and life was probably pretty good for a backpacking effeminate student like Dion in those days.
nice green shift policy how will this work now,take money from rich to give to poor so they can all afford to fire up the old 86 lincons and burn 20 times the amount of gas,that should really green up the old planet again seen as how green plant life lives on co2. got to admit coming from dion he sure knows how to make things greener
Sad part is, Ken B ran as a conservative around 12 years ago federally. Realized that the libs could run 2 rocks here and win so he switched horses. I live in Thunder Bay, sooner or later the lights have to come on and we’ll vote conservative.
“In an interview yesterday, Mr. Boshcoff said he should have been more responsible with his words, but never viewed the Green Shift carbon tax as having a negative impact on any part of the country.”
I guess by “more responsible” he meant he should have kept up the ol’ Liberal lies.
The Liberal green shift truth = Bend over Alberta.
“Hurry, before you need a passport.”
The snide separatist stuff is pretty puerile.
I have no use for separatists no matter which of our national languages they speak.
They are petulant children.
That Alberta’s economy is stunningly successful there can be no argument; that it is somehow “new” and “dynamic” is less sure.
It’s based almost entirely on geography and the cost of a barrel of crude which puts the province (and by extension, Canada) more or less in the same league as Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States.
JJM: “I have no use for separatists no matter which of our national languages they speak.”
Then your happy with the existing system. Which makes you, for lack of a better term, sound like a liberal. If the current political system was changed to create regional equality, instead of all power at the center, much like the US system, we wouldn’t be constantly having these conflicts. That’s all the separatists are asking for, and to dismiss it, to me, is rather arrogant.
It’s the antiquated political system in Canada that is causing all the divisions.
“If the current political system was changed to create regional equality, instead of all power at the center, much like the US system, we wouldn’t be constantly having these conflicts.”
If you believe there’s regional equality in the US system, or that any nation can exist without regional quarrelling, you’re delusional.
GYM you have a faulty memory about economics, and equalization payments. In the 1980’s Ontario fell into “have-not” status, for several years and was eligible for equalization under the formula then in vogue. The Premier of the day, Bill Davis, did not accept the Federal money.
I wonder if it is best to ignore Dion and the Liberals than get angry in the West? Getting angry may make him more popular in Ontario and Quebec. What is the mood in Saskatchewan about the green shift? Alot of Albertans are oblivious to the damage it would do to this province. I am sure once instituted, the carbon rates will continue to rise from 15 billion to 30 billion a year. Ontario can’t stand to have another province wealthier than it.
JJM: Two senators per state, but it doesn’t mean that state is going to win every time, as they still have majority votes. It’s not perfect, but far superior to a country that is controlled by a small portion of two provinces that, are for the most part, clueless about what exists outside their borders. Eliminate the lobby system, and earmarks, and it’s close to ideal. Rep by pop only works on tiny islands…..
And for whoever said we haven’t pulled our weight until recently in Alberta… review your history… over 250 billion and counting… http://tinyurl.com/6e5or6
There is a big difference between the motivation behind the separatists of Quebec and the West.
In Quebec it is a gimme,gimme attitude. Gimme more money. Gimme special recognition. Gimme special powers. Gimme asymmetrical federalism.
In the West, it is simply telling Ottawa to keep their dirty paws off our economy and to mind their own business.
liberals are all commie bastards.
“There is a big difference between the motivation behind the separatists of Quebec and the West.”
In both cases, for entirely self-serving reasons, the separatists of Québec and of Alberta want to be shed of Canada.
A pox on them both.
JJM
you see to assume that the satus quo is pure as the driven snow. The fact remains that Southern Ontario views itself as Canada and therefore everything that happens in the ten provinces and three territories must be for the betterment of Canada (s. Ont.) What the westerners and the Quebecers are saying is simply this. We joined a Confederation not a Federation, therefore we are masters in our own homes. What we do with our home and how we develop our home is no one else’s business. I don’t lecture Toronto about their smog or how they are destroying their economy and I sincerely wish that Toronto would treat Alberta in kind. If S Ont can’t figure that out and stop being some kind of evnvious bully then I have no choice but to leave the relationship.
Put another way don’t blame the battered spouse when the one doing the battering is left all alone. BTW don’t try the guilt trip either. Alberta in putting up with Ontario’s abuse has more than paid its dues.
Anyone for our own Boston Tea Party, if the center votes Dion and the Liberals/commies in? That’s what it boils down to, in my view. Somone up above asked what do we do with the portion of ALberta who feel more like Ontario voters than the ones who wish to separate. I say ask anyone in the eatern townships of Quebec, parts of New Brunswick and NS,and parts of Ontario what their United Empire Loyalist forefathers did when push came to shove in the 13 colonies and they left the mother countrr?
They moved out, to Canada at the time. Can’t say that I would be sorry to see them go should it come to that under the Green Shift.
Alberta has 28 federal seats vs 75 in Quebec and 103 in Ontario. The political system is skewed to the center. I lived through the NEP and I vowed then that I would fight if push came to shove the second time. I’m Canadian, eh, too polite – not this time.
Joe:
That was a rant, pure and simple. You’ve picked nothing but silly accusations and noise out of the air.
I’ve only indicated two things in this thread.
First, my sense of Harper’s view on Albertan prosperity which I think is a practical one and I approve of – vice Dion’s desire to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Secondly, my enduring disdain for separatists of any ilk – and what I take to be ridiculous “near-racist” comments of the most spurious kind.
What exactly is Alberta’s self serving reason? Their refusal to allow a socialists from Quebec to demonize them, interfere with their main industry, rob them blind and then use the money to buy votes in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. That is not self serving behaviour on Alberta’s part, it is self-defense. Because of the way our confederation is set up, there are few other ways for the smaller provinces to defend themselves from these types of raids.
“Alberta has 28 federal seats vs 75 in Quebec and 103 in Ontario.”
Excuse me, am I missing something here?
28 Federal seats translates to one seat for about every 120,000 Albertans. That’s approximately the same as Ontario and BC.
At 75 seats, Québec gets one seat for every 100,000 or so.
But then, Manitoba and Saskatchewan seem to be doing even better at one seat for every 86,000 and 70,000 respectively.
Hard to see how this is unfair representation that favours “Central Canada.”
Did I say it was unfair? Because it’s what Ontario & Quebec voters want that is the issue here. Don’t equivocate on what canstitutes the riding count, because we don’t buy that argument any more. Our votes don’t really enter into the equation when the vote-rich center wants what we have to fund a political party’s efforts to get into power. The issue is the dysfunctional democracy we have in this country. Move out here and live and work, then you can try and slap us around. All I’m reading here is the typical arrogant central Canadian spouting off. You don’t have to like us but we don’t have to abide by your decisions either. Canada ceased to exist for me with the introduction of a “made in Canada” price on oil circa NEP v.1, that benefitted Ontario & Quebec motorists, at my employment expense. You don’t “own” us like property or our geographical good forture in resources. We won that battle in federal court. The center wants to ram another type of wealth redistribution down our throats that does not benefit us, based on our good fortune, then we leave.
I have never had a problem with the rep by pop concept, even if that means that the maritimes, Sask. and Man. get fewer seats. The issue, as I see it, is the way in which central Canada wields the power that is the problem.
The Liberals repeatedly pit region against region, poor against middle class, urban against rural, immigrant against mainstream – divide and conquer tactics. There is also no recourse or process for small provinces to protect themselves for tyranny of the central canada majority. So since it is central Canada that keeps voting Liberals into power the voters, by extension, must support these unfair policies. Therefore, it is bit odd that any central Canadians should wonder why smaller regions get upset and use the only tool they have (separation) when the feds come a calling.
“Did I say it was unfair?”
Then why did you mention it in the first place?
“Move out here and live and work, then you can try and slap us around.”
Am I slapping you around? By your bellicose and intemperate language, I’d suggest you’re the one doing the slapping.*
“You don’t have to like us but we don’t have to abide by your decisions either.”
How do you know I don’t like Albertans? Did I say that? Where?
My friend, your posting is nothing more than a grumpy rant and a tirade.
I do believe however that this is becoming an “extended debate” which I think Kate does try to discourage so I’ll call it a day with this.
* I have lived in Alberta and – though you might be shocked – I enjoyed every minute of it. But then, I’ve happily lived all over Canada and overseas at one time or another.
My friend, your posting is nothing more than a grumpy rant and a tirade.
What, pray tell was yours? And just for the record, I’ve lived and worked across this country as well. I’m born and raised in Ontario and most of the people living here now in ALberta are from somewhere else. When the “center” uses it’s collective votes to bully the rest of the country into policies that they can’t counteract at the ballot box, you have some nerve getting your back up when we point out the obvious to you. We are out numbered and our votes don’t count. It’s pretty obvious to me from your pompous rant that you learned nothing from working and living across Canada.
JJM: What part of what I wrote is a rant? I am simply expressing the frustration that generations of Albertans have felt. When my great grandparents moved from the US into the territory that was to become Alberta they soon discovered that “Canada” was made for the “golden triangle’s” benifit. The little town that sprang up after the settlers moved in boasted a coal mine, a sandstone quary, a dairy/creamery, a flour mill, There were local buyers for eggs, poultry and in short order it was discovered that the entire area sat on a natural gas field. The farmers would buy their equipment locally and grumble about the high cost of machinery. There were huge tarrifs protecting Ontario from the cheaper American manufacturers. The flour mill shut down when it couldn’t by local wheat. The creamery shut down when it got tangled up in the nightmare that of the milk board. Egg station soon followed suit. However the locals carried on selling their grains to the local elevators which then shipped the produce by rail to the coast or the lakehead. At least the freight by rail was subsidized or else there would be no profit in growing cereal crops. That is until the government began subsidizing the railways and not the farmers. The railways then abandoned the branch lines leaving the farmers to truck their crops to points miles away where they would be told how much they would receive as compensation. That left cattle which are still sold on the open market and oil and gas. Some of the farmers became wealthy raising the best beef in the world while others subsidized their farming operations by working in “the patch”. Then along came NEP 1. High interest rates, low commodity prices and now thanks to Ontario no work off the farm.
You may have worked all across Canada but you obiously never talked to a local and you certainly have never learned from history. My family has spent over 100 years working for the benifit of Southern Ontario and enough is enough.
Yawn.
Call me when Dion wins the election.
I will not be holding my breath.
The middle class in Ontario doesn’t want to be buggered over any more than the middle class in Alberta.
Joe,
You’ve turned an ignorance of economics into a conspiracy theory.
The NEP was a smackdown of Alberta by Quebec’s Trudeau – not Ontario. If you think it benefited Ontario you’re on drugs. Ontario’s economy tanked at that time and tanked hard.
It was Quebec (and the other deadbeat provinces – including SK) who has benefited from the Liberal’s various schemes (and losers too lazy to work.) Ontario pays just like Alberta and has always done so.
Consequently, tarrifs were there to raise money for government in a time before income and sales taxes. The history of tarrifs is long and foolish but it wasn’t some plan to screw the west.
Canada’s federal government has been the enrichment of deadbeats in the east coast, Quebec, Manitoba, and Sask. Ontario (and Alberta,) are the net payers.
If NEP was supposed to be the panacea that saved Ontario, then explain how Ontario economy was so bad it qualified for equilization at the same time, and how if the feds were there to “screw” the west for Ontario’s sole benefit that they (they being quebec’s trudeau) quickly changed the formula so that Ontario couldn’t collect a dime.
Warwick, the facts are right, but explain to me why Ontario voters supported the Libs in droves, at the time? Again, if Ontarioans are so sick of paying equalization, then why did they vote 100+ seats over three terms with Cretien, but voted Harris on the provincial level?
“Warwick, the facts are right, but explain to me why Ontario voters supported the Libs in droves, at the time? Again, if Ontarioans are so sick of paying equalization, then why did they vote 100+ seats over three terms with Cretien, but voted Harris on the provincial level?”
Because, intelligent crooks they are, those same Ontario voters f*cked the rest of us with a combo of Cretien and Harris – and then moved West. Good luck, Westies.
Mr. Boshcoff seems unwilling to give up.
http://www.newstalk650.com/blogs/john-gormley/another-liberal-bites-dust-over-green-shaft