It seemed like an innocuous remark. During question period on Wednesday, Environment Minister John Baird gave a little shout-out to an aboriginal delegation in the spectators’ gallery, who had been on hand earlier in the day at the announcement of a big conservation project in Canada’s North.
But that’s a big no-no. Only the Commons Speaker can recognize visitors in the gallery, and MPs who have done the same in the past have been banned from speaking in question period for 30 days. Baird got off with a warning, though.
Even more extraordinary, however, was how that remark provoked Stéphane Dion. The Liberal leader started wildly waving to the aboriginal delegation, pointing to his own chest with both hands and arguing that Baird was trying to take credit for something he himself had done when he was environment minister. “It was me,” he shouted upward to the aboriginal leaders, who looked a bit perplexed by all the gesturing. Then Dion started barking at Baird, saying all the work on the conservation project had been done before Conservatives came to office and “you only had to sign your name.” Observers on both sides of the House averted their eyes at the outburst.
It’s not often that one witnesses a lapdog turn on a Liberal. That was the Toronto Star.
h/t reader Sammy
Dion is a spoiled, self-centered child. I know quite a few academics and eventually shunned that career path myself and I know first hand that they are a coddled, spoiled, pompous, vacuous, empty, lost lot of little children getting big paychecks only because they can BULL SHIT, obfuscate and indulge in excessive verbal onanism enough to make your eyes glaze over and go into a unconscious trance.
Baby Goo Dion and the first comment in this string by Doug makes me glad I avoided a university education. I now pass those savings along to my customers.
Oh, and another thing, I can think of two academics I personally know that speak incessantly of things “being not fair” well, little child, if you finally grew up and worked in the real world outside your comfy blanket of academia, you would quickly discover that life IS NOT FAIR.
Mr. Dion seems to have behaved like a child. However, the comments here aren’t much more adult.
I think the significant point being that the Toronto Star actually printed it.
Last line in that article should have read:Liberal observers averted their eyes at this trainwreck.I can honestly picture Dion breaking down bawling one of these times.I would love to have seen the faces of Libs,when this was going on.Must say,the performance of Baird was priceless!
“It ain’t easy being green”- Kermit
Pretty funny display of infantile “me-too” attention bidding….maybe we need a child psychology manual to figure Dion out?…he seems to be regressing deeper into childhood…first the waxing nostalgic childhood tale to the press now the infantile acting out for attention…is this a defense mechanism? Going to a happier simpler time, to cope with the pressure of failure?
Perhaps Harper will have to recall the days when his kids were small and needed that foundational guidance to get them past the spoiled brat “terrible threes” stage….it will serve him well in coping with the tot who sits across the house from him.
My gawd, what’s next?…tantrums and diaper wetting?
What happened to Dion after he broke this rule within seconds of the Speakers’ warning? Was the 30-day ban applied to him immediately, as it should have been? Or is the rule just for Tories?
I think the fact that Dion is an academic is pertinent – and an academic in a field that doesn’t require empirical proof or logical validation. Dion went into this field for these reasons; he is not someone who is comfortable in the real world of cause and effect.
Plus, as an academic, Dion feels more comfortable in the seminar room, where he is the Professor and the others in the room are subservient to him. He alone has access to The Truth. Dion treats all MPs in this manner; he is The Professor (I am the Leader!) and everyone else is subservient to him. Add a strong psyche of egotism – and you get Dion. Someone who doesn’t listen to the MPs/students, who considers himself as superior.
Then, in the seminar room, ideas remain hypothetical and never require actual proof. So, Dion can say that IF he were PM, then, he’d ensure that Kyoto targets are met in a year. This is a Seminar Room statement. Pure speculative rhetoric. It remains in the seminar room and needs no actual proof for Dion, who said it, to be challenged by. He said it; that’s all that matters.
As an academic, furthermore, Dion is unfamiliar and extremely, seriously, uncomfortable with the real world. So, he remains ‘behind the times’. He’s out of touch with what is really happening in the actual world, and as someone who is more comfortable in the safety of the seminar room, he doesn’t know how to and doesn’t want to get in touch with the real world.
Tact and diplomacy escape Dion. What he was saying may have been correct but how he said it is just plain childlike.
If he were an American celebrity this outburst would be to his credit but as the leader of the oppostion its disgraceful.
Academics get big paychecks? On what planet?
“Mr. Dion seems to have behaved like a child. However, the comments here aren’t much more adult.”
M. Dion is vying to become PM of a major industrialized country, whereas comments on a blog thread are almost by definition impetuous.
Clearly letting M. Dion anywhere near the levers of power in this country would be a big mistake but that is in some ways the liberal tradition going all the way back to Pearson.
Well, you’d never know how badly the Libs are doing if you were reading the Capital city of Canada’s main Rag the Ottawa Citizen.
First there’s an article by one, Jack Aubry headlined “Liberals are narrowing the gap with the Conservatives when the poll he’s quoting has the Libs ten points BEHIND.
Then in the same flipping rag by the same Jack Aubry has on it’s front page an article titled
“Public Service Red Tape turns away talent, says Mr. Chretien”, including a pensive pose of Frere Jean.
The former PM thinks there’s a “presumption that people are corrupt while in our system”.
Of course he’s blaming the Harper Conservative government’s Accountability Act for keeping “talented” people away.
Well Hello! Teflon Jean should know.
On top of that, the same Ottawa Citizen has our current PM on PAGE SIX!!!
Johnny Ringo,
Academics (with tenure of course) get very large money when you consider that work part time, and have a huge benefit package, sabbaticals and job for life.
All that adds up to a very rich life. That is well paid. Oh and they get regular ego stroking to boot.
Perhaps you served as one of their underlings and didn’t make it onto the gravy train? Explain.
Seems like old Jean is trying very hard to get noticed these days also.
What are the odds that he wants to be back in the PM seat again????????
Don’t mean to get off course, but did anyone watch CBC and/or Rdio Canada this weekend? On Sunday AM,CBC ran an interview with Jean Chretien. The former PM is coiming out of his cocoon.
He was interviewed CBC’s “Sunday Report.” (10 AM CST) In the evening, he was hosted on Radio Canada’s “Tous le Monde en Parle,” one of the CBC’s top rated shows in Fench Canada.
How convenient?? Do you suppose the CBC’s intention is to drive another nail into Brian’s coffin??
did Borat Dion follow it up with the meeting of his Kyoto targets under his regime.(CBCpravda type words)
if it were his initiative it would explain the almost total lack of coverage of “Bairds ” announcement at the time. Baird is just Baird to CBCpravda, he has no first name. puts him in the same light as Micheal, Prince, Paris and the like.
I never imagined that the LIberals would ever produce or promote someone who would make Jack Layton appear intelligent.
However, the Red Rag’s reporting of this is less a case of biting the hand than a scene of the hound braying in upset over an unusual commotion being made by it’s master. All will be well and the pups asleep at their feet by nap time.
I am so glad Dion is at the head of the liberal party,
why?
Because he makes us conservatives look good!
On planet earth, far, far from your location.
Do you actually mean to say $150k + @ another $50k in annual benefits for a tenured professor is NOT a big paycheck?
Are you Donald Trump?
the globe + mail has a poll whether you agree with harpers climate plan…perhaps SDA can get another poll to go horribly wrong
Je suis un conservateur anglais.
Je t’aime Stepon DeYawn.
Please don’t overlook the closing line of the Star blog post: “The lesson? Recognition is a sensitive subject in politics. It can even make you lose your dignity.”
Who saw that coming?
I direct you to this document: http://www.acu.ac.uk/policyandresearch/chemsurveys/1062164120.pdf
It compares the salaries of Commonwealth academics. A few notes of interest:
In 2003, Canadian lecturers were paid $28,949 (all figures USD). A senior lecturer was paid $35,076, associate profs $43,183, and full professors start at $54,006. Only Malaysia pays its profs less.
This is hardly the gravy train you try to make it out to be, but nice try. For the average lecturer, it is years and years of part-time contract teaching and research before the notion of tenure comes up (as it should be!).
Do some basic research before spouting off – you look as bad as DION!
Non, Monsieur Dion, this is what your party did:
– talked about Kyoto
– talked about aboriginal conservation area
– talked about universal day care
– didn’t talk about the death penalty
– talked about supporting out troops
– talked about talking about things
Spare us the indignation, childish as it is. If Grits had taken action on issues they might still be in power, except for, oops, the grandest blunder in Canadian political history – the coup that saw a sitting prime minister with three majorities under his belt replaced.
They have yet to recover from that and Dion represents some kind of pennance for the party, unsoiled by earlier corruption. Problem is he is neither fish nor fowl – he hasn’t the experience and savvy to rebuild the organization and policy formation; nor is he completely clean of the Grit anti-legacy, being a Chretien protege.
As for Chretien being out there, with his age and health, I don’t see a comeback here, though you never know with that warhorse. He’s probably trying to one-up his rival Mulroney, and of course sell more books.
Earth to Stepon DeYawn:
Jean Cretin is waiting pour vous in da woodshed. (Relax- he wants to sell you a golf course. A bill of sale on a restaurant napkin will be fine.)
I think the National Post had the same article with the “Libs narrowing the gap…” headline. Apparently, since the last poll, the Tories have fallen 3 points. The Liberals have risen by 1. (I’m going from memory here.) Margin of error: 3.1%, 19 times out of 20. You do the math. Our intellectual superiors in headline writing business can’t.
The idea of Chretien returning is spectacular. I say bring it on…..please
History will not be kind to Mr. Chetien. Neither would the Canadian electorate again, especially after a couple years of actual leadership from Mr. Harper!!!
Somebody needs to remind Dion that stealing is the art of the game for the LPC and always has been. All the same I would have loved to been there and watched the performance as I would have booed it and given it the famous emperors two thumbs down! (real conservative)
Johnny Ringo
Start of first page of U of T salaries.
Abdelrahman Tarek Professor of Electrical & Computer Engineering, Director, Comp. Eng. $110,860.38 $ 271.85
Aberman Arnold Professor of Medicine $140,949.48 $ 305.04
Abramovitch Rona S Prof of Psychology & Director of Transitional Year Program $116,404.08 $ 568.76
Abrams Peter Professor of Zoology $112,242.54 $ 312.00
Abray L Jane Prof History & Women Studies $104,377.46 $ 290.16
Accinelli Robert D Professor of History $102,087.44 $ 459.78
Acker Sandra Professor & Chair of Sociology & Equity Studies in Education $112,787.16 $ 551.24
Ackermann Uwe Professor of Physiology $109,835.28 $ 382.26
Adam Eleanor Manager, Program Development $100,275.54 $ 417.12
Adamowski Thomas H Professor of English $114,621.96 $ 556.47
Adams Barry J Professor and Chair of Civil Engineering $133,019.04 $ 620.52
Ahmed Syed Professor of Management $127,245.00 $ 304.80
Uh-huh, I see medical doctors, program directors, program chairs, program managers who may not even be profs…plus are these profs tenured? Methinks they are…so you’ve proven nothing other than at the U of T, as at other institutions, those in charge of departments or programs, get paid the big bucks. Same for tenured profs.
I don’t think there’s any question that you can eventually make a pretty good living as an academic once you’ve put in enough time as a post doc or sessional instructor or whatever. That list might be a little misleading, since I think public institutions are only required to report salaries that are over $100,000. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Full professors @ $54,006? Give me a break.
High school teachers earn more than that in B.C. and that doesn’t include generous benefits or the fact that they earn their income over 10 months (despite their protestations to the contrary).
I rent a house to a marine researcher (Phd) and his university pays me $1,600/mth in rent each month. I don’t believe it’s considered part of his ‘salary’ either.
Dion has always been one of Canada’s elites, despite his crys of early impoverishment.
More archaic rules and regs that should be scrapped! If a group of specators are there for an environmental issue, should it not be the Minister of the Environment who greets the visitors?
That’s ridiculous and only second to their continuous jabbering and pounding while the MPs are adressing issues. Every moment that is being wasted ends up on the tab of “WE THE PEOPLE.”
johnny r confuses per lecture with per annum. been to the u. unless you study to be a doctor , lawyer or indian chief. not much point. you might learn to read is the prof knows how.
What a hoot.And we laugh at the Koreans when they have fisticuffs in their parliment.Thanks to the leftards,we are becoming a laughing stock on the world scene.
Poor Steffi Dion! He has to tie a steak around his neck to get his dog ‘Kyoto’ to play with him…
I think painting all “academics” with the same brush to make a point about Dion is a little much.
Dion has stated that he will get rid of child poverty.So what is CTV reporting today,that child poverty is up of course.The msm,all lieberal all the time.
Salaries at universities depend on a lot of things. Time, tenure, discipline (Med school profs have their salaries as prof as well as doctors in hospitals so their pay will be full prof and mostly full doctor as well.) Bus school give profs additional pay to attract better quality people (UWO it more than doubles pay.)
When you start off before tenure, you make very little. By the time you have tenure and have been around for a while, the average is probably over 100k in most universities.
Not bad. Expecially since once you have tenure, your manditory responsibilities are slim.
Research:
Manitoba has very nearly the lowest Cost of Admin for it’s universities and claims to be near par with other provinces for University Prof salaries.
Extra Benefit is lower cost of homes here.
University Professors Instructors Lecturers Manitoba: Salaries
From the Province of Manitoba Job Futures dot org
$40,000 Starting
$77,000 Average
$123,000 High
Additional sources of income are participation in funded research, publishing, additional lecturing, consulting and other activities.
All of which can be pursued while on the job or while on paid leave.
Benefits (pension, vacation, health, career development etc) for faculty in MB are roughly equal value to salary at the low end and about 1/3 to 1/2 of salary at the high end.
This for what is essentially a part time job.
I work with a fellow who holds a special chair and earns well over $170,000 per year PLUS salaries from outside agencies he provides expertise to.
Last summer he spent 6 weeks in Europe and got paid for it.
I do however call BS on any one who cries poor when they choose to work in academe!
It is quite possible and I know of at least one complete incompetent who earns in excess of $80,000 a year teaching subjects he knows nothing about. He is unemployable outside of the University environment and unless he commits some grave offense will be employed by the university until he drops dead.
I don’t know how this got started when the topic is really Dion’s failure as a politician and utter failure at leadership.
But if it helps make the point that Dion is currently overpaid ….. I’m on it!
For Johnny’s Benefit More Research
And thinking of that what are the benefits of “leader of the opposition” ?
Anyone…??
Yes, it is only when the salaries of public employees are over 100,000 that these must be made public.
However, don’t ignore the cocooned life of the academic (and I am one). Think about it.
You teach for maybe 9 hours a week. That’s all. Preparation time? Well, it can take a few years to develop a decent course, but, once you’ve done it – you’re prepared. Marking? Another four hours a week. At most.
Most profs I know schedule their classes; some do it so that they only teach three days a week. Vacation time – from end of April, through until September. Not bad. That’s at least four months. December is several weeks as well.
And, in some fields, you get outside contracts that bring in extra money. One person I know makes a large academic salary, but his outside contracts bring in MORE than that salary.
Research grants pay for your trips to Europe, where you do research and, heh, heh, vacation. Air fare, hotel, meals – all paid. Is there another profession where you can apply for a grant to research ‘Women as Victims in Rome’ or whatever, and get a four week vacation in Europe?
Publish? It depends on the university; the better ones require publications, BUT, that means following the ideological line of the old guard in the discipline. In the social sciences and humanities, this ideological line actually represses innovation.
Canada has a small academic community and they jealously inhibit innovation; they are on the review andn the funding committees and so, Canadian research in these areas is stuck in the 1980s. That’s Dion’s field; he’s stuck in that era.
Tenure – a job for life. LOOOONG summer vacations. Plenty of extra, non-taxable money for your travel, books, etc. Medical benefits, pension.
And, unaccountability. What you think and say in the Seminar Room is untested, can have no practical viability, but, since your The Prof, then, your idea is Tops.
[Note: I’m referring to the social sciences and the humanities. The hard disciplines of engineering, medicine, sciences…require a lot of work and must be empirically reliable.]
Dion lives in an unrealistic world where he is The Professor in the Seminar Room.
‘And thinking of that what are the benefits of “leader of the opposition” ?’
As leader of the oppostion…
You get to tell the government how to operate. If it doesn’t listen, you can withdraw support and possibly win a chance to implement your own policies.
Oh yeah! How did that work out?
“However, don’t ignore the cocooned life of the academic (and I am one).”
Well, ET, to judge from the quantity and length of your postings — and the times of day that you send many of them — you must be one of the country’s biggest academic offenders. Your department head ought to find something for you to do.
ET, given your comments, I can’t believe your claim that you’re a working, employed academic at a Canadian university. I really doubt, given your apparent work schedule, that you truly do teach at a university.
Nine hours a week for teaching is normal – sometimes – but prep time and marking time is at least double that per week. Then there’s office hours, the various committees you’ll work on, the grad supervision, plus your own research (book reviews, book chapters,papers in refereed journals, technical reports, etc.) editorial board membership, manuscript supervision, conference organization/attendance, professional group obligations, faculty council duties, etc.
Keep in mind that much of this is done at a fraction of the pay you’re throwing around.
I’m not complaining, I knew the score when I got into it, but don’t try to convince us that it’s a “gravy train” or an easy, part-time job! It may well be part-time for you, but certainly not for all.
Nice try.
MJ and Johnny Ringo – Nice try yourselves. I’m retired. And I was a full time prof (Full Professor). I also taught extra classes, independent studies, grad supervision, still churned out two-three refereed papers per year, numerous conference papers and so on – and I maintain my points.
I repeat my points. In the social sciences and humanities, it’s a soft job. There’s no comparison to the work hours put in by people in regular 9-5 jobs. Or other jobs, such as finance, banking, engineering, computers etc.
Prep and marking time is NOT 18 hours a week. As I said, once you’ve got your courses (and they can take a few years) you are set, and can pull together another course readily. You do NOT have tests every week, so marking is NOT done every week. Office hours? Three to five a week? So?
Conference attendance is WORK? Give me a break. I’ve been to enough conferences; that’s not work. That includes chairing sessions. Not work.
Same with book reviews and editorial board membership. That’s hardly work. Reviewing a book? Sheesh. I’ve done enough of them to know, that’s not work – and I still do them – and easily write a 15 page review of a 20 page paper.
No, I repeat my point. I’ve seen enough, in my long academic career, of faculty in the social sciences and humanities, to conclude that it’s a soft job. There’s no comparison to the hard and responsible positions in science, in medicine, in engineering, in financial fields etc.
Not only are the hours minimal, the vacations Loooong, but, there’s no accountability. Your opinions are Top Gun in the seminar room; you aren’t held up by Reality and Pragmatics. You can spout whatever vapid nonsense you like..and I’ve heard enough of that, in the conference halls and meeting rooms. Life isn’t a seminar room.
ET: “I’ve seen enough, in my long academic career, of faculty in the social sciences and humanities, to conclude that it’s a soft job.”
Generalizations like this make me wonder what intellectual abilities you gained from your university education. I can hear this kind of simple thinking and bias from the CBC and TorStar without coming here. Not to say that it isn’t correct in a lot of cases. But all?
“easily write a 15 page review of a 20 page paper”
Now, *that* I can believe.
MJ – don’t move into ad hominem or trivia. Because I didn’t preface my statement with ‘most’ versus ‘all’ doesn’t change the facts. It’s a soft job. And no accountability.
As for the 15 pages, again, nice try with the speculative ad hominem. Don’t move into areas about which you don’t know a thing; my 15 pages are specific not empty.
Back to Dion. He’s soft; he’s isolated from reality and accountability. A leader of a nation can’t live in the Seminar Room.
ET “MJ – don’t move into ad hominem or trivia.”
Apparently you don’t know what ad hominem is. Criticizing you and the quality of your arguments isn’t ad hominem. And complaining that it *is* ad hominem comes close to crying “that is not fair.”
Don’t get me wrong. Dion is soft, foolish, out of touch with the real world and would be a terrible prime minister. But he isn’t those things because he’s a social scientist; it’s because he’s soft, foolish, out of touch and has no leadership skills. You started from the premise that these qualities (and a few others) are general characteristics of social scientists and humanists; and since Dion is a social scientist, he must have these qualities (unless you’ve read his academic writings and can also comment specifically on his abilities as a teacher?). That’s a pretty bad way to formulate an argument.
“As for the 15 pages, again, nice try with the speculative ad hominem. Don’t move into areas about which you don’t know a thing; my 15 pages are specific not empty.”
No, not speculative ad hominem. All readers of SDA have had the chance to see your argumentative abilities and verbosity in action over and over and …. We don’t need to speculate. As for whether your 15 pages are specific: if you say so — but why not post a sample so we can judge for ourselves.
“There’s no comparison to the work hours put in by people in regular 9-5 jobs.”
Since you retired as a full professor and not a regular 9-5er, how would you know? Or just more generalization without specifics?
Profs do their own marking? I think not. Any grad student knows that’s a bunch of bull. That’s what a TA is for. As I was one for years, I can fully testify to that. 18 hours of prep? LMAO… un huh… 18 hours the first two years maybe… then, as you publish text books… its all read from the text baby