81 Replies to “Y2Kyoto: Where They Can’t See The Forest”

  1. Not quite sure what that post is supposed to prove, beyond the posters horrible grasp of science.

  4. who cares, they ignore the fact that there were giant reptiles in alberta for , who the hell knows how long . forget the geologic record it is only our puny lifespan that matters.

  6. probably something to do with the “fake” Medieval Warm Age that the Believers are so addicted to.
    by the way, Steve over at ClimateAudit is up for best Science blog.
    Under great Canadian who needs our support
    http://www.climateaudit.org/
    vote for Kate & Steve . . one vote every 24 hrs

  8. I have a piece of fossilized wood and a fossilized tooth that I found on Ellsmere Island 23 years ago.For those of you who don’t know where that is ,google is your friend. Guess them nasty Inuit 10 million years ago transplanted them from Anarctica! And the Kyoto Kultists wonder why we mock them.

  9. Trees under the ice !!?? What ? Can’t be !!
    According to Uncle Albert this is the first time the glaciers have ever melted. Been there forever.
    A first, eh ? Something like snow in Kelwona. First winter here — very little snow. Second — some. Third — shoveling snow.
    A neighbour exclaimed “THIS IS THE MOST SNOW I HAVE EVER SEEN HERE !!”
    Oh, how long you lived here ??
    Four years.
    How long has the Okanagan been here ?
    About four …. BILLION years. Some of it tropical. Some of it under a kilometer of ice. Hmmm

  10. Ron, absolutely right. And Alberta was once a tropical forest (all the oil) and was once covered by enormous layers of ice too.
    So was it cave-man burps or dinosaur farts that caused this? Either way, Algore is just like a cave-man running around saying if we don’t give sacrifice to the Glowball Warming God, he will strike us dead.

  11. The Suzukian cult will be be meeting this weekend for sure!! What doom and gloom will brother David be propagating this time? Ah wait a minute–tree stumps under the glaciers you say? Doesn’t that signal the possibility if an other ice age?? The Liberals are already ordering their Hudson’s bay blankets.

  12. Yeah – and I want to know who created all the CO2 that caused the great increase in temperature that made Lake Agassiz dry up after the glaciers receded.
    Bet it was one hell of a good fishing hole at one time.

  13. Doug. Check out some articles on abiotic oil. Just google oil,2nd down. There weren’t enough dinosaurs etc to produce even a millionth of the oil we have. Why methane on Triton? Did we export dinosaurs lo many millinieum ago?

  14. The points I took away from that article are:
    1 – The researcher is getting paid to do research on something that is already well known … at taxpayer expense.
    2 – The comments of the researcher show a blatant determination to use whatever information gathered to present an argument that supports his preconceived conclusions.
    3 – The publication that covered this had absolutely ZERO supporting information, background or other context. It was slavishly following the alarmist AGW meme.
    The Blogger who posted it had the point exactly … the glaringly obvious fact that Geological events recur over long enough spans of time to make these kinds of conclusions (ie;AGW) simply foolish. Add to that the obvious behaviour of both the media and the stooges who feed the pop science business.

  15. Nobody is arguing that this is the warmest period in earth’s history. The concern is that nature is no longer the primary driving force. When nature is no longer controlling our climate we are then in uncharted waters with nasty little tipping points cropping up all around us, and many proving to be unanticipated.

  16. (Tapping fingers on desk waiting for Sean S. to explain himself.)
    In the meantime, I’ll just repeat the question posed by the blogger himself:
    (W)hat was man doing 7000 years ago to warm the planet enough for trees to be growing there in the first place?

  17. Neil at November 2, 2007 6:03 PM
    Perhaps you should read up on what happened to glacial Lake Agassiz before making silly statements like that.

  20. Louise, you really want to know-
    “W)hat was man doing 7000 years ago to warm the planet enough for trees to be growing there in the first place?”
    You really can be that ignorant about climate science can you?
    Tell me you are and I’ll give you the answer you deserve.

  21. alby @8:49PM
    I expect that most of the people on this site – perhaps yourself excepted – know full well what happened to Lake Agassiz.
    I still think it was probably one hell of a good fishing hole at one time.
    Get a life.

  22. albatross: you speak as though you know with certainty about these things. You are merely mouthing the words of the Gorebot, who knows about as much as you. Your words speak of alarm, not of science. In reality, you know nothing.

  23. Are we going to have a quote of the year contest?
    If so, I would nominate albatross39a – 8:40pm,Nov. 2nd.
    “Nobody is arguing that this is the warmest period in earth’s history.”
    Of course, because they would be wrong.

  24. Mankind’s contribution to global warming based on effect of all GHG’s generated by human activity ….with all the assumptions favouring the AGW scenario built in ….. something like .014 percent if memory serves me!
    Well crap my pants and call me a burrito!

  25. Tell me you are and I’ll give you the answer you deserve
    =================
    Let me guess. The answer I “deserve” is not the answer I am waiting for. Right?

  26. No Doug I do not speak the words of Gore but Gore and I unlike the denialists get our information from the same places. I however don’t live in a mansion, nor do I own a jet.

  27. Anywho, I’ll give you an answer that you don’t want, served up with only slightly less snark:
    What was man doing 7000 years ago to warm the planet enough for trees to be growing there in the first place?
    Humans and a whole bunch of other living things were living on the planet during an era not that long ago when it is obvious that the climate was much warmer than it is today. Obviously, since the glaciers have to have been in much greater “retreat” at that time (7000 years ago) than they are today, since there were trees growing where there are now glaciers. So, the planet warms up and the planet cools down. Humans on most parts of the planet were still hunter-gatherers 7000 years ago. No anthropogenic global warming going on then, yet the planet was obviously warmer. Now, give me an explanation as to why I’m wrong, if you can. How is it that you know so much and are so confident, when countless scientists disagree. Snarky remarks don’t cut it. Real research and real evidence for each point please.

  30. I started watching Al the Goracale’s Inconvenient bunch of lies and exaggerations today. I lasted about 15 mins. It was like he was talking to 8 year olds, he had even thrown in the cartoons, how could any logical thinking person could fall for that bunch of BS?
    But who am I to talk, after all he did invent the internet so he must know what he is talking about.

  31. Actually, Alan, he didn’t invent the internet. The internet began in the 1960s with an earlier technology being used by the US Armed Forces called ARPANET About thirty years later, after many technological improvements and innovations, the internet went public and became commercialized and Al Gore was involved in promoting it at that time. No doubt Mr. Gore appreciates the mythology though. If anybody deserves to be called the inventer of the Internet, it should be Tim Berners-Lee, who was largely responsible for the World Wide Web.

  33. Oh Louise, crack a book instead of watching TV. Those two videos you linked have both been so discredited it’s actually funny you posted them.
    Louise, let me introduce you to the Milankovitch cycle discovered by Milutin Milanković. It’s all natural, it’s not man made and is the largest factor in the earth’s cooling and warming of the planet that has affected the climate for the past several hundred thousand years. To go beyond that you need to look at other factors in addition the Milankovitch cycle. Factors like major geological events, continental drift (you do believe in continental drift don’t you Louise?), and before that the emergence of different life forms that altered the chemistry of the planet (you do believe in evolution don’t you Louise?). The difference today Louise is that humans are the ones altering the chemistry of the earth’s atmosphere and we’re altering it without really knowing what the consequences are.
    Here Louise, let Mr. Wikipedia explain the Milankovitch cycle to you. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles
    If you’ll notice that during the last glacial maximum 20 kya., the earth’s obliquity and precession were at a low and this is what caused the last ice age. Seven thousand years ago you should notice that obliquity was at a high and precession was increasing. This is the period known as the climatic maximum and is the time when the tree found in the article above were growing.
    You should also notice that the obliquity, procession AND eccentricity are also presently declining. What that means is we SHOULD be getting cooler and slowly sliding into an ice age but instead we are getting warmer. Why do you suppose this is Louise? The fact that these trees have been uncovered when they should be by now buried deeper in the ice should be giving you a clue that things right now are not the way nature is intending them to be.

  34. Hey mankind. I agree with Gore and Suzuki, we can control the climate. We don’t have to try and endure another ice age and all the dead people that will be associated with it.
    Just run those SUV’s and the next ice age will be averted…..we’ll keep the world warm.
    We’ll all live and prosper just like they did in the Medieaval warm period.
    Did you read the Post this week, 100’s of thousands more people die from the cold each year in the world when compared to the number that die when we have the odd warm spell in the summer, guess what gets the news….
    Sorry Kate the following is a little off topic , But relevant….
    We need more people that actually know how to do stuff like Engineers, plumbers, electricians, etc. than another batch of Arts students that don’t know how or why, when they flip a switch on the wall a light comes on, or when they run and charge their computers, cell phones, Blackberries where the energy comes from or how it is produced (Coal, nuke, wind, hydro ), Or when they flush a toilet where the stuff goes….and how much energy that uses…I could go on with a litany of everyday stuff that uses energy.
    And when the thermostat in their homes ask for heat where does it come from and why… An arts student couldn’t tell you, but these are the same people that would tear down the infrastrucure that keeps them warm, and lit in the name of Global warming.
    These people have no idea what it takes to heat and light their homes,run their cars, sip coffee at the local coffee shop, go to the theatre, look at art, buy protest books, .hold protest rallies with signs and megaphones, and list goes on.,,,
    They don’t understand the basic energy requirements of their basic existance as it exists today,.
    God help them for they no what they do.

  35. It is amazing how Kate is so good at letting in just the right amount of troll sillyness. Allows them some rope.
    Better to remain still and be thought a fool than to type and remove all doubt 🙂
    Perhaps the alarmists should all move to Mars if they are so gungho on colder. At -121C, better plug-in the Bazzoo.

  36. Dear Albatross. They have not been discredited, my dear. They are being debated. There is a difference, which, unfortunately, loons like you don’t get. It means, simply, that the science is far from unanimous and one theory raises just as much debate and as the next. My hunch is you haven’t even viewed these videos. Your language certainly suggests that you are a contemptious little snot who cannot deal with anyone who has contrary views.
    And yes, Albatross, yes, I believe in continental drift. And, yes, I believe in evolution. Neither of these were caused by man and both of them have been occurring for eons longer than 7000 years. so right there is a bit of hole in your theory.
    Yes, I also believe, and furthermore have not one iota of doubt, that you are a sanctimonious asshole and if you believe that sanctimony proves your point, you must not have much faith in your own argument.
    Every scientist quoted in the film “The Great Global Warming Swindle” has credentials that are at least as highly regarded as your Milankovitch, but you choose to discredit all of them. So what’s your point, then? Your scientists are better than my scientists? I should worship the ground you walk on just because you come up with a “my dad is better than your dad” argument.
    Keep trying.

  37. ron in kelowna, trouble is, Mars is warming up right now, too. And here we thought Earth was the only planet with humans on it.

  38. What that means is we SHOULD be getting cooler and slowly sliding into an ice age but instead we are getting warmer. Why do you suppose this is Louise? The fact that these trees have been uncovered when they should be by now buried deeper in the ice should be giving you a clue that things right now are not the way nature is intending them to be.
    =========================
    I suppose one could look at the same set of facts and conclude that we are “sliding” into an ice age. Trees underneath glaciers?? DUH!!!!

  39. You are correct Louise that not all the scientists in the swindle are quacks, but those that are not quacks and not in the pay of oil companies were simply misquoted or quoted out of context. Scientists like Christy are quacks but “scientists” such as Ball and Singer happen to be both quacks and in the pay of oil companies. The fact is they do not present a debate, they offer instead pure propaganda. I won’t even discuss Doomsday as it is so laughable.
    You by using these two videos as an argument suggests a complete ignorance on the subject of climate change, but when you ask stupid questions relating to man’s involvement in climate change 7000 years ago as if it was a valid argument, it simply confirms it.
    observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2031455,00.html

  40. Posted by: Louise at November 3, 2007 12:17 AM
    “I suppose one could look at the same set of facts and conclude that we are “sliding” into an ice age. Trees underneath glaciers?? DUH!!!!”
    Maybe you could present a logical argument?

  41. From the Wikipedia article on Milankovitch’s theory:
    Because the observed periodicities of climate fit so well with the orbital periods, the orbital theory has overwhelming support. Nonetheless, there are several difficulties in reconciling theory with observations.
    Well, that’s certainly settled.

  42. Maybe you could learn to recognize one. LOL!!
    Let me guess. You’re doing a graduate thesis on the subject and you have a large emotional/ego investment in it.

  43. Most liberals reject real science for this new age poppycock from DAVID SUZUKI,MURICE STRONG,AL GORE and JAMES LOVELOCK and others of the new age church of gaia

  45. You by using these two videos as an argument suggests a complete ignorance on the subject of climate change
    ======================
    More ROTFLMAO!!! I still doubt you have watched either of the videos. And I now know that you are incapable of arguing your case. All you can do, apparently, is to cast aspersions on me. Well done. Very scientific.

  46. Don’t tell me you are trying to argue that Milankovitch was wrong? You really do need to crack a book. Then you should read the rest of that section you’re quoting from and then attempt to understand it. The Milankovitch theory spans several scientific disciplines beyond climate science that include astronomy and geology. So what next, was Newton and Galileo wrong too?

  47. I can’t believe I’m trying to discuss this with some ditsy housewife that for some reason thinks she knows something about climate science because she watched a video or two.
    The fact is I have Doomsday, Swindle and Inconvenient Truth on disk and frankly I wouldn’t use any of them as a reference when talking about the subject.
    As far as in the pay of oil companies, I’ll direct you to look them up at sourcewatch.org

  50. A housewife who watched a video or a 48-year-old leftist undergrad who thinks that rich people become rich by stealing from the poor, and that soldiers are brainwashed?
    Hmm, I think I’ll take the one without the glaring and inherent biases.

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