Soot from the factories of Asia is changing weather across the Pacific Ocean and causing storms like the December howler that clobbered Vancouver’s Stanley Park, a new study says.
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ht: WL Mackenzie Redux
Soot from the factories of Asia is changing weather across the Pacific Ocean and causing storms like the December howler that clobbered Vancouver’s Stanley Park, a new study says.
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ht: WL Mackenzie Redux
I propose that we sell the Chinese and Indians soot credits.
I wrote about this a few hours ago. Chalk this up as a victory for the deniers.
http://splatto.net/blog/?p=495
It’s nice to have an insightful, scientific, well researched article to read. Bravo!
Well isn’t this newest climate revelation just like a…breath of fresh air!!
So now that we know that its not cow farts but do we really care?
This whole global warming exercise in futility has left a bad taste in my craw…I guess you could say I feel violated.
To me its akin to being told by your wife that she’s got a new beau in her life and that you were a lousy lover anyway, so goodbye. Then less than a week later she wants to come home and says she never really meant it.
At that point I guess one can’t help but ask what is real and who to trust?
The fifty dollar question of course is what’s it gonna be next?
As my good wife says,”Its media hype Simon”
Or maybe it was just El Nino … you know the one … gave the east warm weather.
In my “back yard” sample set there was a whole lot more huge branches sitting in my yard in the 98 era El Nino. I suspect a lot of areas got trashed more that year than Stanley Park this year … they just weren’t Stanley Park.
BTW: I think soot has a lot more to do with weather patterns (or, if your one that is easily alarmed – climate change) than co2.
So yeah. First we don’t believe in global warming/cooling/climate change, then we do. Or we blame china or india. Or we accept that that is part of the progress of them becoming a world player, so we let them have it. So what is it with conservatives? There is a reality here somewhere, pollution or whatnot, so what is our solution? We are so focused on not having our “liberties” such as owning a gas-polluting vehicle or having our house warm enough to not wear a big thick sweater taken away. If we are the ones who believe in having offspring, in having tolerant/christian/live and let live children, where are our solutions for having breathable air and such?
Soot is pollution, CO2 is vital to life, so this Conservative wants real pollutants fought, not hot air credits sold to China.
I want clear air, land and rivers, not the yellow water we saw on our last trip through Ontario, I wouldn’t let my dog drink out of those rivers. Last year, going through the Rockies, we stopped along the road and scooped up some glacier fresh water, that is sweet, cold, clear water, I’d like to keep it that way.
Conservatism/conservative, nice match huh!
Why is it that the USA is not included in the CTV Poll. Is it because the USA has already been judged as bad by CTV?
Poll Result
Which country do you think has the most positive influence on the world?
Britain
2019 votes (16 %)
Canada
7889 votes (64 %)
China
678 votes (6 %)
France
488 votes (4 %)
Japan
1174 votes (10 %)
geez Redux you need to get out more. all we have to do is buy some carbon credits, keep driving carbon-neutral spewing vehicles and all that bad stuff will go away.
Even better, we buy carbon credits from China so they can build more coal fired power plants.
We assuage our guilt and contribute to 3rd world development at the same time. So what if we add a whole bunch of REAL pollution to the atmosphere. After all the real culprit is CO2. Just ask Al or albatross.
My parents were hippies/baby boomers. Trudeau voters. So I understand the whole ecological aspect of the argument, love the earth and all that. I also belive in God and believe that He created a beautiful world. But I understand the evolution part of life, and if the earth is however many millions of years old, then perhaps we, with our adapability, are the ones meant to inherit it. Arguing that climate change isn’t as big an issue as “they” make it out to be doesn’t cancel the fact that we do have pollution, and we need ideas to solve it.
And don’t forget the sand from all those desert sand storms that get blown far far away, to Toronto. Give us a clean air bill, ignore kyoto.
I see….soot alters weather patterns in a highly dramatic way.
BUT FRICKIN VALCANOES DO NOTHING?
ld, I do agree we have pollution problems but it is not changing our weather, nor the cause of climate change.
Doug: ” … BUT FRICKIN VALCANOES DO NOTHING?”
Who is saying that? Soot is not the same thing as CO2. Soot is pollution, CO2 is not. I can’t remember anyone here saying that we are “pro-pollution”.
ld: “… cancel the fact that we do have pollution, and we need ideas to solve it.”
The first thing we have to do is spend money on the right things. Swinging at imaginary pitches doesn’t mean anything.
Make that:
Swinging at imaginary pitches means nothing.
Arguably, what algore and the folks at the IPCC are currently panicking about is the echo of Krakatoa in 1883 which, apparently, released more CO2 than the industrial world has produced since that date.
Heck of a way to make policy if you ask me.
chinese authorites dont care a tinkers friggin tush about air pollution, refraining from using all that coal in their country would impinge on their ‘economic miracle’ (nuthin miraculous about it, economics follows some very very predicatable albeit more complex behaviour)
I was in Hong Kong in early 2005, my brother-in-law who teaches economics at the university lamented repeatedly that now you cant even see across the large bay (forget its name) in New Territories.
there are cities in mainland china that have the absolute WORST air quality in the world right now, and thousands dying from respiratory disease.
but the dollah calls the shots and we give free reign to their bootlegged production runs because the price is right.
be prepared for this soot from china thing for a long long time.
regarding CO2, remember the martinet lieberals fudging the EPA environmental protection act:
(find it in ‘canada gazette, vol 139 # 36 sept 3 2005)
carbon dioxide according to the fukin lieberals is TOXIC.
along with nitrous oxide and oh, lets put sulphur hexafluoride in there …..
kyoto is prominently mentioned in the document.
One solution…..environmental tariffs on India, China, and every other polluting 3rd world country….when I floated this concept 10 years ago, librano retards responded saying it would hurt the poor, blah, blah, blah…well, let’s look at the hurt being put on the “poor” now…slave labor and toxic environment…good job librano morons with your leadership on that file…..the natural governing party my ass….nothing but wrong on all the big environmental issues
I was just in Hong Kong in January and the air was really polluted like what we see at times in southern Ontario in the summer. Though it was sunny you could hardly see a couple of kilometers. No wonder lots of people wear filter masks. People told us it was like this all the time and much worse in mainland China.
A large study done recently covering some 1500kms from China/India southwards showed that suspended particles from pollution, soot, construction dust etc., gave water vapour so many surfaces to condense on that they never got big enough to fall as rain and stayed as clouds and caused abnormal cooling in the areas they covered and affected rainfall thousands of miles away. Similar to the effect of a volcano but the pollution is continuous, wide spread, and growing so the impact is so much greater.
This is what the world should be focusing on, air pollution and environmental destruction not CO2.
Well yousee the problem is here was counter evidence. If you check the predictions for El Nino the amount of rainfall and cold that the West coast got wasnt supposed to happen.
However that just shows there is more to this than easy predictions.
So they had counter evidence so you have to find another “manmade” cause to keep the story going. ANyway, soot will cause cooling, just like volcanoes do. But it doesnt explain the warm early winter we had Ontario and east. THAT was a classic El Nino effect.
El Nino weakens and we get a cold winter….coldest Feb in 50 years!
Anyway, I still say we are on the downside of a cycle so I suspect that this summer will be a lot like last summer (here it was perfect) or possibly a little cooler. Lack of sunspots is my theory….
Anyway, resist this push for two years and it dies.
Shaken sez: “I propose that we sell the Chinese and Indians soot credits”
I think this evidence is reason enough to tank Kyoto and start with some rational global pollution initiative.
India and China pollute so badly because they are largely exempt from Kyoto and their industries have none of the environmental regulations to deal with that we do.
I’m all for the UN re writing Kyoto and including China and India and all the emerging coal fired industrial nations….punishments for polluting should be commensurate with your place in the probelem.
Canada is responsible for 2% of global pollution China and India 56% combined…which nation should be the priority for regulation and fines???
Have to wonder how the Chinese people are able to get enough clean air to support their existence.
Sending carbon credits to China and India so they can continue to pollute while Western nations dummy down and sink their economies is the stuff of insanity.
Trading millions of dollars for soot and poverty is madness in it’s extreme form.
Jinmbola said: “Even better, we buy carbon credits from China so they can build more coal fired power plants.”
Correct! I see my time spent connecting the “carbon foot prints” from the Kyoto taxing and reguating system ( Moonbat Bucks) right back to Chairman Moe/Powercor China power investment was not wasted.
Now the whole thing comes into view doesn’t it. We ( N.Americaa industry and consumers) were to be over-regulated and tax strangled into economic stagnation by Kyoto’s biased carbon guilt taxing while China/India/Indonesia run ape-shit wide open in a modern monopolist’s wet drean of unregulated heavy industrial expansion…no labor regs ..no pollution control regs…no trade tax….no Kyoto…Max profit/Min over head.
This is why I have always chided Kyoyo zealots as idiots…they are well intentioned, but blind to the economic realities of Kyoto and it’s designer’s biases….they are also blind in chasing CO2 molecules around the atmospere when toxic particulate pollution is spewing into the air by the mega tons by rudementary Chinese industrialization. And again, they serve as the useful idiots who set the stage for over regulated N.American heavy industry to pick up their operations and move to unregulated China…taking Jobs, capital, revenue with them and enhancing the concentration of unregulated polluters in China.
With a revelation like this, maybe we can get some global pollution controls in place that reflect reality. It makes no moral or logical sense to tax and regulate Canada to a productivity collapse when we are only 2% of the problem….while China and India are a combined 56% of the problem(and the worst particulate polluter on the planet) get a free ride from Kyoto Protocol.
Hell, these carbon belching pigs can even sell carbon credits to people who ain’t a problem ( like Canada)….the fraud of Kyoto is displayed in the carbon levels belched by the Asian industrial nations who are exempt from its regualtion.
My guess is that if the UN ever did do something usefull in creating a realistic and effective pollution treaty…China would flip them the bird and go on polluting at will amd aim their missiles at anyone who takes exception to their polluting.
TARIFFS – TARIFFS – TARIFFS
hit these arseholes where they live…in the pocketbook….Harper and Hillary(or whomever) impose a fortress North America approach, force massive tariffs on all products, and watch them clean up their act…..it will just take a little courage(something the libranos never had) to stand up to these pigs
I agree Kingston…put the Chinese monopoly genie back in the bottle with Green taxes and tarrifs on their pollution belching trade goods….on the other hand we should have tariff-free trade in goods made by responsible industrial citizens who have spent millions on clean ups or reducing particulate pollution from their operations.
Like I just don’t see how the left/greens fail to get this…..why do they think Ford is bugging out to China?…as a humanitarian gesture?…or so they can run apeshit wide open without the pollution and labor regs they had to cope with here.
We should be literally hanging any politician which allows them to get away with a move like this….you want to sell cars here?..then you build them here and employ Canadians and you build them with a minimum of pollution…for that good corporate citizenry we cut you a Tariff and tax break….you don’t bugger off to China taking Canadian jobs and tax revenues with you so you can cut costs and Max out profits with slave labor, un taxed materials, zero emissions regs and sell your cars back into the Canadian market ( at twice the former profits)after you just depressed it by removing jobs to China.
Pollution-built Chinese cars should have a $10K-$20K tariff on them!
My next truck will be a Canadian built Toyota for all the above reasons….sad when the only responsible corporate citizen in the Canadian auto trade is Japanese.
There I said it… Buzz Hargrove would get wood if he heard that auto pact proposal. 😉
I think we should all send DeYawn, Jack and Suzuki a copy of the article. Of course you’d be labeled as a “climate denier.”
The present government is right on fighting pollution. There is a differance. I wrote my MP and stated that it would be a downhill slope if they even consider paying any country carbon credits – particulary the greatest polluters in the world.
oh man, especially the cars that will be coming from commieland…if we allow that to happen without aforementioned tariffs, Ontario’s economy will be destroyed….we do not need to sell them our oil, we do not need to buy their products…..tariff everything out of commieland
C’mon Kingstonlad, China puts our money to good use – like modernizing their nuclear arsenal.
Angus Reid Poll at http://rm.angusreidforum.com/?cid=923&rs=GGEnGg. Question is “Should reducing global warming be the top priority for government?”
Anybody know if DVD’s of “The Great Global Warming Swindle are available”?
If the polsters were smart they would have used the same questions as Suzuki. If the results were the same, what would they report?
When I voted the results were 54% yes 48% no
Those 54% never read the article about China’s soot.
Soot is nothing to worry about co2 is odourless, colourless and tasteless.
So belch all the smog you want china Suzuki doesn’t care,
Whether one is talking China soot, so-called GW, Blackberry, the United Nations, one is really talking Maurice Strong.
~~ PETER FOSTER of the National Post deserves an Order-of Canada for being the first (after sda) major media to post an article of the Mo “legacy”
“… Mr. Strong, who is now holed up in his soul home, Beijing, has called economic growth “a disease.” His “Earth Charter” has been described (approvingly) as a “shared positive vision … for anti-capitalism.” Although he is no longer on the board, CIGI is typical of the kind of well-funded organizations that promote Mr. Strong’s socialist agenda. One wonders why a businessman would support it.”, Peter Foster.
//www.canada.com/nationalpost/columnists/story.html?id=5404b334-1af1-4b54-ac82-2b01345c89b6
This whole Mo can of worms is getting to be scary.
~~ LICIA CORBELLA also deserves an order of Canada for being one of the first (after sda) to report on the scam called David Suzuki.
” .. What’s more, I am 99% certain that I have a smaller carbon footprint than Suzuki. My only home is much smaller than his beach-front mansion in Vancouver. I know that because as a teen and young adult, my friends and I used to party on said beach and sometimes saw Suzuki wander about in his yard.
During an editorial board meeting here in Calgary several years ago, I mentioned to Suzuki I used to see him at his huge home and he asked “which house?” He’s got more than one!”, Licia Corbella.
//calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnists/Corbella_Licia/2007/03/07/3708299.html
Who sits on the Suzuki Foundation board of directors ?? You got it, Maurice Strong.
Mo of China fame. Of sooty Chinese industry fame. Of Mo’s Chinese Cherry Car Company fame. Of Kyoto carbon credit fame. Of China soot may be causing storms on BC coast fame. And wrecking David’s Stanley park trees fame. Too much !!!
Now, if only Canadians could be convinced to boycott the buying of those commie Cherries that Charman Mo intends to flood our NA market with, we might see him expire of emphysema in his chosen lair.
Poetic justice?
Anyone who figures that Gore and Suzuki are the end all be all in the doom and gloom game should Spend some time over at NASA’s photo collection. In addition to some nasty smog over Beijing, there is a heck of a lot of mother nature crap. From fires to Sahara sandstorms, there is a lot more in play than TG’s SUV or Kate’s puppymobile idling outside Tim Horton’s. There is no “one cause” anymore than there is “one cure”.
This whole sordid “climate change” hysteria has, and continues to be socialist, media-driven rubbish meant to embrace and torpedo the PM from office, from the outset.
Dion Did Not Support Kyoto, Former Environment Minister Says
Christine Stewart, who was the Liberal environment minister when Canada signed the Kyoto agreement in 1997, said none of her cabinet colleagues — including current party leader Stéphane Dion — supported her efforts to put a real plan in place to meet its ambitious targets. …-
http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/
…-
“No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits…. climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
– Christine Stewart, Canadian Environment Minister
http://www.fdrs.org/quotes_on_global_warming.html
Those words, “justice and equality”, are code words for world-wide socialism as preached by Mao Strong and his cohorts.
Id “So yeah. First we don’t believe in global warming/cooling/climate change, then we do. Or we blame china or india. Or we accept that that is part of the progress of them becoming a world player, so we let them have it. So what is it with conservatives? There is a reality here somewhere, pollution or whatnot, so what is our solution? ”
You probably don’t want it from me but you get the smartest guy in the room award from me. It’s about time the “debate” moved beyond conspiracy theory. You could for example accept that there is a problem and be against Kyoto for instance. There are plenty of people in that camp.
But despite all the talk on this blog about this issue conversation never moves beyond a daily affirmation that it’s a conspiracy and gripping that Gore should be driving around on a unicycle.
The CPC will hash out some kind of environmental policy on this eventually despite what all you think anyways.
What is it you don’t understand, Jose? Just because someone, like me, doesn’t believe the AGW science/theory is set, doesn’t mean they don’t want to clean up the environment. Frankly, I’m sick of that nonsense. Maybe you can explain why Canada should dismantle it’s resource-based, northern economy to be a “world player,” at 2% of total human induced CO2 emissions, while it’s OK for China, India, Russia to continue to burn fossil fuels, or take carbon credit $$ from us?
The debate should be about transitioning out of carbon fuels. I don’t buy your “world player” argument, because essentially it means handing over money and power to corrupt incompetents such as Maurice Strong and the UN. That won’t clean up our environment, IMHO.
Sequestering CO2, while not dealing with REAL pollutants, like lead, sulphur, radon is counterproductive. First of all, at least 20% of the GHGs saved are required to sequester, transport and store liquid CO2; secondly, we are not getting bang for our buck, we need to deal with CO2, carbon monoxide, lead, radon, sulpur et al. Going after the CO2 alone is inefficient and wasteful, tapping our finite resources while doing nothing about REAL pollution.
Perhaps you should analyze people’s arguments before labelling them as conservatives or deniers.
BTW, the fact that Gore and Suzuki are not climate scientists, and hypocrites too, taints their arguments.
Jose
I don’t find it hard to believe that human activity is contributing to climate change.
We are certainly effecting our environment.
The warming effect of individual green house gases can be measured in a lab as can the cooling effect of the different aerosols.
The question is how much of an effect these gases and aerosols have in the complexity of things that we know can effect our climate. Not to mention things that we don’t yet know.
In light of this lack of certainty I think it would make sense to
Clean up our room – Find other ways to make things go – Find ways to make things go with less effort.
While we are doing this we can keep an eye on any developments in global warming science.
I agree with W.L.M. Redux on the kyoto accord.
Japanese guy talking on the radio. I listen carefully because I saw how they did their homework while my afternoons were eaten up with a row boat rigged with bedsheet sails on Lake Saint Louis Beauharnois Quebec.
He said China / India Coal Plant Soot can cause cooling while travelling aloft in cloud form.
Conversely and longer term it can cause arctic warming due to greying snow heat absorbtion.
Less reflection, more warming.
Clean Coal tech will help. Trading carbon credits will only enrich the the *Oil for Food* types. = TG