Reader Manny writes [via email, and in the comments – slightly edited].
I created a composite between the photo of the beast from our own Radarsat (link below) and a map of Canada from MSN Encarta World Atlas (free online) to illustrate the size and distance of the thing.
full size
About the risk to the Hibernia oil platform[*], it is 4,500 km away from it (straight line). That’s the distance between Montreal and Calgary. Can everyone please relax?
PS: I was intrigued by Ice island vs Iceberg. From the Canadian Encyclopedia:
“In the Arctic Ocean, the term “ice island” is applied to pieces of floating shelf ice that form principally on the north coast of ELLESMERE ISLAND. These thin tabular icebergs are 20-60 m thick, often up to 100 km2 in area, and typically protrude 2-6 m above water.” …”The thinner arctic ice islands have a much lower natural period of oscillation and, having horizontal dimensions much greater than their thickness, tend to absorb ocean waves as filtered travelling waves, which induce flexing of the ice. As the ice island thins by melting, this process may lead to it fracturing and breaking into smaller pieces.” … “Since 1985 a Canadian station has been maintained on an ice island that calved from the Ward-Hunt Ice Shelf in 1983. Because many ice islands become trapped in Arctic Ocean current gyres, they survive for many years, melting and crumbling at the edges only slowly.”
More unmentioned data;
As this table indicates, the vast majority of ice shelf loss occured in the first half of the 20th century, assuming there’s been no difference in the Helocene ice shelves. from 4500 years ago to 100 years ago. To me, that’s a significant assumption.
Previous… Birth Of An Ice Cube
I, too, am in favour of our current government continuing to deny that global warming is an issue.
Presuming that you are being sarcastic, Crabgrass, I assume that you are either dumb, not following the threads on SDA about global warming (newsflash…it’s now called “climate change”), or are purposefully obtuse.
The climate is changing…yes, we get that and we agree! It’s warming…I would think that the latest historical trend is one of warming, so yes…we get that, too!
The issue is…is the warming caused by man? Or, as recorded geologic history shows, does the climate of this planet change in a cyclical pattern all by itself without our help. The theory that most of the SDA contributers (and possibly the Conservative Government) hold to is that it is part of the natural cyclical climate pattern of the planet and that mankind and mankind’s activities have little effect.
Does that adequately educate you on the perspective?
Once again Kate does the homework the MSM refuses to do and puts the whole thing into context.
Great job Kate!
I had a friend who took a writing course once from a Tronto Star editor, during the class they were brainstorming some ideas and somebody came up with a whopper, everyone laughed it was so ridicuolous, then he turned around and said, “who cares if its true, thats a great story”.
My friend copied it down he was so floored by the guy.
Don’t give me credit for “doing the homework”. My job is to get it in front of a broader audience.
since the alternative to global warming is 10,000 foot thick ice sheets covering 99% of Canada, we should be very thankful for global warming.
That it is a totally natural phenomenon driven by orbital mechanics ( Crabgrass – look up “Milankovitch for Dummies” ) and solar energy output variations is beyond the grasp of the enviro-weenies.
Does mankind impact the rate and degree of climate change ?
Yes, but the impact is insignificant, won’t change the eventual outcome – other than perhaps move some events a few years forward in time and the impact has been totally blown out of all proportion by the “Sky is Falling” environmental movement.
The enviro-weenies have been trying for 50 years to get something to use to reduce human consumption of resources. They failed with the Club of Rome claiming we were running out of everything. They failed with the Population Bomb nonsense, but the thought they had found the Holy Grail of Fear Mongering with climate change/Kyoto, the infamous Mann Hockey Stick graph ( where is the Medieval Warm Period Dr, Mann ??).
The MSM press jumped on the bandwagon – Fear sells even more advertising space than sex and they jumped on the (The Earth is ending” bandwagon with full force.
Slowly but surly though, real science, based on data not “consensus” is breaking down the Great Lie and exposing the truth.
Kyoto, the Economic Wealth Redistribution Treaty masquerading as an Environmental Treaty is dying. Hardly any nations will make their targets, China and India thumb their nose and pump HUGE amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere and Kyoto 2 is stumbling so badly that it will be stillborn.
But don’t tell Al Gore his plans for the Presidency in 2008 are based on the Potemkin Promise of Global Warming.
Hillary is just letting him cut his own throat.
Happy New Year everyone.
good speech from Rona It is too bad nobody read the Clean Air Act, it was actually far better then the DIon/Liberal attempt of the year before.
Ordinary Canadians have been thought policed into thinking that turning down the thermostat, adding some ceiling insulation, approving a few wind farms and maybe driving a Prius will get us to our Kyoto targets.
That we actually have to stop EVERY car, train, bus, truck and plane AND shut down our manufacturing sector to get to 6% less than our 1990 levels is just too much truth for Canadians to handle. We want tr think we are good little international boy scouts doing our duty, pulling our weight in the Great Cause, but the reality is that Canadians are not willing to give up air conditioning and SUV’s.
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Speaking Notes for an Address by the Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of the Environment of Canada
May 11, 2006
The Honorable Rona Ambrose
Speech delivered by the
Honourable Rona Ambrose, P.C., M.P., Minister of the Environment
Check against delivery
I’m proud to rise in the house today to speak on such an important issue as the Canadian environment. I am proud to be a member of a Government that is facing our challenges on the environment head on and finding solutions that deliver tangible results and put Canadians first.
Earlier today, the Government of Canada submitted two sets of documents to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC).
* The first set is Canada’s 2004 Greenhouse Gas Inventory.
* The second set includes two submissions that are part of Canada’s new input into the global dialogue on future international cooperation on climate change.
What does our 2004 GHG inventory say? According to the 2004 inventory, Canadian emissions were almost 35% above the Kyoto target negotiated by the Liberals.
The numbers say it: we have inherited a situation that makes the Kyoto target unachievable. Why is it unachievable? Let me spell it out.
In 2004, our emissions were 195 Mt above our Kyoto target. How much is 195 Mt? It’s the equivalent of more than all our transportation emissions – i.e., all the emissions from every car, truck, plane and train in Canada. We would have to pull every truck and car off the street, shut down every train and ground every plane to reach the Kyoto target negotiated by the Liberals.
Or we could shut all the lights off in Canada tomorrow – but that still wouldn’t be enough – to reach our Kyoto target we’d have to shut off all the lights AND shut down the entire agriculture industry.
Or instead we could shut down every individual Canadian household, not once, not twice, not three times, but FOUR times over to meet the Kyoto target the Liberals negotiated for Canada.
Or, we could do what the Liberals thought was the answer faced with the realization that the target they negotiated meant shutting down Canada’s economy – spend the money overseas buying international credits – the Liberals had set aside up to $600 dollars per Canadian household to be sent overseas in order to help reach the Kyoto target they negotiated for Canada.
Let’s be clear – many Canadians predicted at the time that the targets the Liberals negotiated were unrealistic and voiced concerns that a proper implementation plan needed to come first. But politics got ahead of good policy and the Liberals negotiated a target without a plan to get there first.
So we cannot meet the Kyoto target negotiated by the Liberals. But that does not mean we give up the fight – we are committed to real progress on cleaning up Canada’s environment and on reducing our greenhouse gas emissions – to face the challenge before us in an open and transparent way and develop realistic and reachable goals to reduce pollution and greenhouse gases.
We are turning a new leaf on the environment – with a commitment to Canadians that all money for the environment will be spent on the Canadian environment. We will not send Canadian taxpayers’ dollars overseas to buy credits. These are billions of dollars that can be invested in Canada to help reduce pollution and greenhouse gases. To build greener infrastructure, develop new technologies and make Canada more efficient and economically competitive.
In our initiatives, Canadians always come first.
To that effect, our government is focused on “Made-in-Canada” solutions that are inclusive and results-oriented. We will respect the particular needs and circumstances of each of our country’s provinces and territories – but always insist that our initiatives have direct benefits to Canadians and the Canadian environment. We want to see tangible benefits where it matters most – in Canadian communities.
Our first focus is on domestic action to ensure that Canadians can enjoy clean air, clean water, clean land, clean and secure energy, and healthy communities.
We have already begun with an investment in “Made-in-Canada” solutions that deliver real environmental and health benefits to Canadians by investing in new, greener, cleaner transportation and incentives to get Canadians out of their cars and into public transit – this is important because transportation is one of the highest contributors to pollution and greenhouse gases – in Quebec, transportation is the highest cause of greenhouse gases.
Very shortly, we will be sitting down for the first time ever in this country’s history with the provinces to launch our way forward to a national renewable fuels strategy – which will see real, tangible benefits to the environment and economic benefits to the agriculture sector. We are launching a long-overdue review of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, Canada’s most important piece of environmental policy to find ways to strengthen it. The Liberals put off the review, we committed in our Speech to the Throne that it receive the comprehensive review it deserves for the sake of the Canadian environment. We have begun the review of the Canada-US Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement, which hasn’t had a serious review since 1987.
Soon, the Health Minister and I will lay out a vision and direction on the important need to deal with transboundary air pollution and work with the health authorities across Canada and the provinces to develop the Canadian Clean Air Act. Today, Canada falls behind the USA in every industry sector on pollution control. And we don’t just want to catch up, we want to compete – we want to lead.
The health impacts of pollution are deadly and the cost to the healthcare system is in the billions. Last year, Ontario had 53 smog advisory days and Quebec had 34 – and for the first time in Canadian history, we had 10 winter smog advisory days in Canada. On those days, young children with asthma and elderly people with respiratory diseases cannot leave their homes – this is unacceptable to our Government – and the answer is not to blame the US and other countries for the pollution that crosses our borders – we have to clean up our own backyard also.
We are beginning discussions with the provinces on a National Water Strategy – to share information about water quantity and quality. To ensure Canadians have access to safe and clean drinking water, and to identify the quantity and resource related issues that are emerging throughout Canada.
We will be working towards a system for large emitters to deal with greenhouse gases and ensure that we take the right steps to facilitate Canada’s ability to contribute in our strongest capacity to this international challenge – through the development and deployment of clean technology.
These are just a few of the things we are working on – all of them are “Made-in-Canada” solutions – real benefits, tangible results for Canadians and the Canadian environment.
We will ensure that our domestic policy aligns with our international policy. It will also ensure that Canada will continue to exercise a leadership role within international consultation and cooperation by advancing realistic and inclusive international options within the United Nations, and we will explore other mechanisms to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in ways that accurately reflect Canada’s national circumstances and effectively protect our country’s interests.
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Would these people stop worrying about this thing!!
Thanks to GLOBAL WARMING it will melt long before it gets there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhmOCAilj2c
now imagine this over say 50 years.
Actually, I think that ordinary Canadians haven’t a clue about reducing greenhouse gases. That’s something, we assume, is caused only by Big Corporations who are Evil anyway, and just Out For Profit and therefore, in their greed, they pollute. So, we assume that it’s up to the Big Corporations to stop being so greedy. Then, all will be well, and the greenhouse gases will stop. It’s all about the morality of capitalism, as defined by socialism.
And make no mistake. Kyoto is a socialist tract, against capitalism and designed as a money transfer scheme. It has nothing to do with the environment. Well, yes it does – it is actually going to harm the environment. Because the key aspect of Kyoto is the transfer of millions of dollars to undeveloped nations who are exempt from emission and pollution controls. So, they can use that money to industrialize – and pollute. So much for the environment. And so much for western capitalism and industries – who lose the money they need both for their own dev’t and for actually building systems to reduce pollution!
What I’m trying to say is that the Global Warming ideology has little to do with the environment. It has a great deal to do with the socialist ideology, however, of antipathy to capitalism and corporations.
IF Kyoto were about the environment, then, all countries would have to be a party to it.
And if Kyoto were about the environment, then, the levels to be achieved would be realistic and both short and long term. Kyoto is short term and unrealistic.
And, if Kyoto were about the environment, there would be no ‘escape clause’ where you could buy your way out of your environmental obligations by just handing over millions of dollars to nations that are NOT part of Kyoto, and are heavy polluters and emitters.
Instead, you would use that money, yourself, to rebuild your own industrial infrastructure to lessen pollution and emissions. Kyoto isn’t about that – it takes that money from you and gives it to a country outside of any Kyoto obligations.
So- the undev’t country pollutes, the dev’t country pollutes and hands over millions to the undev’t country to build their polluting factories.
How does that help the environment?
But – it does harm the economies of the dev’t countries. That’s the agenda of Kyoto. It’s a socialist tract against capitalism…because it’s only the capitalist countries that have any money.
The purpose of the carbon trading program was for companies/countries that could not otherwise meet their targets, that they could purchase “carbon credits” from some underdeveloped nations. Those designated countries (poor countries) are exempt any emission level standards by the UNs IPCC. The underdeveloped nations then would use those funds to upgrade their industries or build new, modern, low emission-level plants and in doing so reduce the emission of world wide GHGs.
Understandably the scheme may have sounded good to the left wing political enviros on paper, but if they had stopped to engage their brains they would have come to the realization that the administration of such a world wide program in terms of it being, efficient, effective and without it becoming corrupt, is an impossibility.
How could the UN with its sordid history of corruption and gross inefficiently do such a job, it cannot and will not.
What has come to light is that European companies have already purchased billion of dollars worth of these carbon credits, about which 50 % were from the Rep. of China. Well instead of upgrading existing coal fired power plants to reduce substantially the extreme level of air pollutants and GHGs that they are pumping out, they used the funds to build even more of the old style hyper polluting coal fired power plants. Thank god that we do not have a Liberal government or we too would have already been exporting billions of dollars, also without one grain of difference to our GHG or air pollution emissions. In reality all we would be doing is exporting some of our taxpayers monies to help achieve a theoretical reduced level of GHGs in Canada, but we really would not be reducing anything in Canada except our standard of living.
Erwin
Posted by: Erwin at January 2, 2007 08:26 AM
About the risk to the Hibernia oil platform,
When did they move the Hibernia oil platform to the Beaufort Sea?
“When did they move the Hibernia oil platform to the Beaufort Sea?”
You’ll have to excuse Robert. He’s a little slow on the uptake…
“In the Arctic Ocean, the term “ice island” is applied to pieces of floating shelf ice… that form principally on the north coast of ELLESMERE ISLAND. These thin tabular icebergs are 20-60 m thick, often up to 100 km2 in area, and typically protrude 2-6 m above water.” … “Since 1985 a Canadian station has been maintained on an ice island that calved from the Ward-Hunt Ice Shelf in 1983…”
Seeing as this is a new and catastrophic occurrence, it’s strange that they’d already have a name for it and that we’d actually have a research station floating on one for the past 25 years…
I suspect that was what Manny was alluding to (the mention of risk to Beaufort drilling), and wrote Hibernia in error. Thanks for pointing it out, though.
Erwin – exactly. That’s my point. The up-front rhetoric of Kyoto is all about ‘helping the poor (undev’t countries) to help themselves’. Ahh, so noble. How is this done? By taxing the Greedy West and its Big Corporations. The money is handed over, not as a loan, but as a free gift. But, as run by the UN, it’s immediately corrupt.
The undev’t countries will do just as China did. Use the money to build more polluting plants – because they are cheaper to build and run, easier and faster to construct. So- Kyoto actually increases global emissions and pollution. It doesn’t reduce it.
That money should be used by the dev’t country to, over the long term, rebuild their factories.
It’s an entirely separate issue – the building of new factories in underdev’t countries – and ensuring that they are not polluting factories. That agenda should be kept separate, should be funded by regular international dev’t funds and governed by the rules of the funding country – to ensure that the factories are modern and efficient.
Kyoto is a UN money scam.
In trying to find the answers to climate change, lots of questions are being asked about the inner workings of anything to do with Kyoto.
3W planetark. org/avantgo/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=39652
“BEIJING – Some local governments in China fake pollution reports and release false statistics, state media on Thursday cited an official with the country’s environment watchdog as saying..
According to figures reported by 26 regional governments, the goal set by Beijing of cutting main pollutants by 2 percent should have been hit, the official said.
But the level of sulphur dioxide, one of the country’s main pollutants that often chokes big cities like Beijing, actually rose by 2 percent this year, according to the watchdog.”
~~~~
http://www.planetark.org/avantgo/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=38719
BEIJING – Projects that cut greenhouse gas emissions and channel funds to poor nations from rich ones under the Kyoto pact may be backlogged in 2007 due to mistaken applications and an overworked evaluation team, an official said.
The Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) scheme allows polluters in industrialised nations to meet their emissions quotas by funding cuts in developing nations….
Dornau added that there was a lack of transparency in the Kyoto judging panel’s decision making…”
~~~~
More about CDM, Clean Development Mechanism (Canada also uses this), and a group (out of Germany)that has an eye on how it works, and how it distributes taxpayers’ dollars for projects:
3W cdmwatch .org/files/World%20Bank%20paper%20final.pdf
Page 6 has some interesting findings about the World Bank’s part in funding Non-renewable energy projects….
There is a lot of information here, in general.
Eeyore, I was not being sarcastic. I do hope that the Harper government continues with their current approach to the environment.
The next election campaign could be interesting – do you think that Stephen Harper can tell Canadians what he really thinks about this issue (or any other issue for that matter, but I digress), and still cling to hopes of being elected again? He will in fact have to address it, and it’s going to be a delicate balancing act.
The competition argues the cause and projected results of climate change. We should shift the argument to their closed socialist solution and the damage it’s already done. Kyoto is their achilles heel.
French citizen Dion will go down in flames for conspiring to mislead the country, adding to global warming and bilking us of our wealth.
Current Arctic Basin sea ice area.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/recent365.anom.region.1.html
No sooner do we make mention of left wing political enviros than our old socialist pal Robert McClelland shows up-
“About the risk to the Hibernia oil platform,
When did they move the Hibernia oil platform to the Beaufort Sea?
Posted by: Robert McClelland at January 2, 2007 12:31 PM”
Especially for you Robert:
1. Yes you are correct, they did not move the Hibernia oil platform, but surely you knew this and would have recognized a little “slip of the pen ” so to speak.
2. in any case it is not the Hibernia oil field that is supposedly threatened, it is the Prudoe Bay field, it is in the US sector of the Beaufort Sea and is not about to be moved even if there was a need to do so which of course there is not.
3. The alleged threat was typical of the fraudulent fearmongering spewed by those same left wing enviro loonies who most often do not have a clue what they are talking about.
4. Robert, while you are ‘weighing in’, why don’t you explain how the wonderful carbon trading system is reducing world GHG emissions and how it will be making a better environment for us right here in Canada.
“A giant ice shelf the size of 11,000 football fields has snapped free from Canada’s Arctic, leaving behind a trail of floating icy boulders”
Holy guacamole! That’s like 2,700,000 pingpong tables, or 53 bazillion postage stamps or …..
When did the football field become a unit of measure? Does it follow the metric system where we would have deci-football fields, dff, or kilo-football fields, kff?
Nice posts, Fred. It’s an interesting thing, but humanity – western humanity – seems to have a prediliction for apocaplyptic threats. We are subsumed in guilt; we walk with Satan ever present.
So- we assume a Dreadful End, unless we behave properly. A few years ago, it was global cooling; we’d all freeze to death. And, there was the Nuclear War between The Evil USSR and the USA. There was Malthusian overpopulation; we’d eat all our food and starve to death. There was the millenium and all our computers would crash and the earth would go teetering off course and.. Now, it’s Global Warming; we’ll all boil to death or be drowned in melting ice.
What’s the common factor? There are two. The first is that all our apocalpytic scenarios have been, over time, proven false. The second, is that we seem to feel the need for them. As soon as one is downgraded to irrelevance, we come up with yet another – equally horrendous, equally doom-laden, equally filled with statistics and pie charts and various other graphs.
There’s a tiny grain of truth to these conspiracy theories – for that is basically what they are but, the overwhelming content of the rhetoric is false. There was a cold blip for a while; the US and the USSR did glare at each other; the global population has increased..etc etc. But it is we, with our psychological tendency for guilt, who write and read the full text and turn it into a science fiction, a false story of an apocalyptic end.
Are they Canadian or US or European football fields?
ET
So if we put on our tinfoil thinking caps, what do you suppose will be the next apocaplyptic threat. There must be a few from the lunatic fringe, realizing perhaps we’re onto this latest scam, that are planning the next ‘global threat’.
Any thoughts on what that might be?
“The largest observed ice island calving occurred at Ward Hunt Ice Shelf (Fig. l), where almost 600 km2 of ice broke away at some time between August 1961 and April 1962”
(Hattersley-Smith, 1963 “Ice Island Calvings and Ice Shelf Changes, Milne Ice Shelf and Ayles Ice Shelf, Ellesmere Island, N.W.T.”, MARTIN O. JEFFRIES, ARCTIC, VOL. 39, NO. 1 (MARfloat: ;CH 1986) P. 15-19)
That 600 km2 is ten times this ice-cube.
Cheers,
lance
Regardless whether one believes the junk science related to the global warming hysteria , Kyoto makes no sense.
Canada produces about 2% of total CO2 , but China and India combined produce just over 20% , or roughly 10x Canada’s contribution , so how on earth does it make any sense for Canada to buy carbon credits from China and India with taxpayers money while China and India are exempt from Kyoto?
Too bad Ambrose was unable to elucidate the issue and force the Liberals to debate the merits of Canada buying Kyoto carbon credits on that basis. Perhaps her successor will be better at the task of getting past the MSM hype.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions
Exactly Willy,
The argument has to be shifted from the ambiguous blame and projected results of ‘global warming’ to the closed socialist solution. Force Dion, Layton, Duceppe and every other supporter to clearly explain Kyoto to the public and its effects so far.
boots – I’ve no idea. But conspiracy theories can be fun because they operate outside of any empirical proof or logic. Of course, since they operate outside of any data-based reality, they are effectively impossible to disprove. They exist purely within the emotions, and exist as long as we can be emotionally ‘high’ on them.
Basically, what’s required for a nice apocalyptic threat is, first, you have to define a group of Evil Agents. Second, the Evil Agents have to be viewed as powerful, almost metaphysical in their unaccountability and supreme powers.
The Evil Agents can be Natural Forces of course, but that’s not much fun and doesn’t raise the emotions much. It’s far better to insert Human Intentionality. So- we have The Big Corporate Industry of the West, with regards to Global Warming. With overpopulation, you had Greedy and Promiscuous Humans – and particularly, wealthy Humans who Ate All The Food Up.
Usually, the Evil Agents are outside of government control. They are a Force Unto Themselves. And they are indeed evil. Left unchecked, the End of the World is Nigh….
BUT – if the Good People (us) can conquer them, then, all will be well and peace and harmony and etc will cover the earth.
Star Wars has nothing on a good MSM Conspiracy Theory. And the current Global Warming Caused by Evil Men/Corporate Capitalism, is one of their better attempts. It’s pure fiction, but, boy, it’s a good tale, embellished with all kinds of pseudo-science, tales of ‘most of the world’s scientists believe’, pie charts and so on.
Global warming would be useless as an apocalyptic conspiracy if we concluded that global warming is a natural phenomena, caused primarily by the planet’s relation to the sun. It’s only a real conspiracy if we, the Pure Good Humans, can get involved in a Fight against the Bad Humans.
Add to that – the cynical corrupt use of our human emotional vulnerability, by the UN’s actions in setting up global warming as a money laundering action – and it’s quite the tale.
ET, I have one! How about a group of sinister Frenchmen from the Montreal/Ottawa corridor, controlling our country, whose nefarious plans include the embezzlement of untold billions and the misappropriation of oil revenues with the help of the evil UN. They’re going to take over the world! Only a few of us are aware of the plot and no one will listen!
Very X-Files, don’t ya think? Would that work? It seems to have all of your prerequisites?
Crabgrass: Bah! Humbug!
As I have discussed with a Liberal friend, I will admit that the timetable that the Conservatives have proposed seems to be far too drawn out…however, my Liberal friend concedes that at least there are realistic targets that have been set and committed to.
My criticism of the Conservative plan (and my Liberal friend agrees) is the timetable for implementation…but not having crunched any numbers, I cannot say for sure if a more aggressive timetable is economically practical.
I believe that the Conservatives need to rev up the messaging and tune-up their packages. And then, yes, the next election could be very interesting and rewarding.
Johnlee: Thanks for the link to the sea ice area graph. Interesting to note that it is only for one year…hard to discern any trends looking at only one years’ worth of data.
That’s another part of the problem with the climate change fearmongers…the “big picture”. Things are warmer in the winter today than when I was a child (Ontario), but is this an historical high or just a blip on the long-term trend. Given we can out of an ice-age not that long ago, one COULD conclude that it is just a blip.
I wonder how the fearmongers do on the stock market?
Erwin: …why don’t you explain how the wonderful carbon trading system is reducing world GHG emissions and how it will be making a better environment for us right here in Canada
The carbon trading system was modelled in part on the US’s domestic sulphur dioxide trading system, which has shown some success in reducing SO2 levels south of the border. So, it can work in principle (though it remains flawed in current practise), as long as restrictions are in place to prevent loopholes and abuse by either credit sellers or buyers, which is what’s happening in certain parts of the world by certain unscrupulous energy companies (and you wonder why “lefty moonbats” are so often suspicious of the motives of the private sector).
In fact, the system was designed with the realities of capitalism explicitly in mind. Since the energy sector is, like any other business sector, governed by market principles, it was believed that they’d act to reduce GHG emissions only when they’re given a financial incentive to do so. As the number of credits available is reduced over time, each credit becomes more valuable, creating a major incentive for companies to voluntarily reduce emission levels, thereby storing away more credits for sale on the open market.
Also, a carbon trading scheme works only as a medium-term, temporary solution operating in conjunction with other initiatives designed to reduce global emissions over the long-term (increasing efficiencies, investing in renewable energy technology, etc.).
Incidentally, the last I heard, Minister Ambrose is currently in consultations with global partners (US, EU, Britain) about setting up a carbon trading market. Since you’re so opposed to even the principle of the idea, you may want to pen a letter to Ottawa stating your disapproval of the current direction of the Harper-led government’s environmental portfolio.
And just to underscore the fact that the world is not simply black and white, “Left” and “Right”, it’s worth noting that some of the most vocal critics of the carbon trading scheme–though for entirely different reasons than yours–are social justice activists (see, for example, http://www.carbontradewatch.org).
So a piece of ice has broken off waaaay up north? Big deal. How bad is that compared to the possibility of Iran launching a nuclear-armed missile at the Free World? Perhaps we could blow the piece of ice to small pieces if it gets close to populated areas or whatever. Big deal. I’m not trembling.
The whole “global warming” thing just sounds like some kind of mass hysteria/psychosis amongst leftist sheeple who just cannot help but climb onto the latest left-fad bandwagon without question.
Though not personally a scientist, I just cannot see how the whole thing is proven. I doubt that human activity has much impact on climate change at all. We didn’t end the Ice Age, did we? Well?
All this alarmism… I mean, it’s soooo Chicken Little.
Just last year the left in this country claimed that the most important thing was gay marriage. They focussed on that, seeing it through… and only after that did they make a big stink about “the environment”. Where has the left been on “the environment” all these years? Have they given up on improving health care access?
So what if a lot of scientists “agree” on the whole “global warming” scaremongering? I mean, they haven’t really made the case; haven’t proven what is claimed.
Sorry, but I question the whole thing. I’m not convinced.
The onus is on the left and the “agreeing” scientists to prove that the world is, indeed, flat or whatever, as they so adamantly believe…
Let them prove it isn’t a HOAX.
Not that I have ever to have claimed to catch all the Canadian news since I’ve been south of the 49th, but Fred’s post @ 11:45 AM is the first reference I have heard about the address by the Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of the Environment of Canada back in May.
I mean, with analogies of shutting down all of Canada and freezing in the dark and still not meet the Kyoto goals, I thought for sure the MSM would run with this story for weeks. Oops, me bad. How silly of me, I forgot this was during the great Paramentry Press kerfuffle. She could have told them the building was on fire and they would have argued that they got to choose when to ask if the sky is falling.
Problem is that the MSM has done their job and forced the PM to replace Ms Ambrose because the public believes she hasn’t done anything(except try to understand the pile of crap she inherited). Sad indeed.
Especially for you Robert:
1. Yes you are correct,
Thank you, but you should have ended your comment there.
Force Dion, Layton, Duceppe and every other supporter to clearly explain Kyoto to the public and its effects so far.
They have. It’s not their fault if you refuse to listen to what they’re actually saying and instead only hear “carbon credits”; which clearly is the only part of the Kyoto Accord the conservatives here know about.
All this alarmism… I mean, it’s soooo Chicken Little.
Really, eh. I mean what’s up with these looney moonbat environmentalists. Remember when they were running around shrieking about a hole opening up in the ozone layer. Pfft! And what about their wild claims that acid rain was destroying our lakes. They even managed to hoodwink Mulroney into buying that gibberish. And don’t even get me started on that long ago hysteria that mercury being dumped in our lakes and rivers would lead to flipper babies.
Actually, Robert, you are quite wrong; you are mixing up bananas and birds.
First, acid rain, mercury poisoning etc, are basic linear interactions. Mix this chemical with that – and you’ll get that other chemical, and it will do such and such harm. That interaction is readily, scientifically, provable, and has no comparison to ‘global warming’. Go eat a banana.
No, Dion, Layton and Duceppe haven’t explained ‘global warming’. If they had, perhaps you wouldn’t be equating it with a chemical interaction (or maybe you still would, who knows); and, in case you’ve missed it, carbon credits is the ONLY aspect of Kyoto with which the Liberals/NDP were involved. During their long cohabitation in the House, our carbon emissions went up, up, up. Why? Because the Liberals/NDP had and have no plan to reduce them. The tactic was, instead, to purchase ‘carbon credits’. That is, to pay the Guilt Fine to some developing country which is exempt from Kyoto and could happily both pollute, and emit, as much as they cheerily chose to do so.
Oh – and the other basic aspect of Kyoto, apart from its being a blatant money laundering tactic of the UN against developed countries, is that there’s no proof that global warming is actually caused by human activities. That the climate is changing, is readily observable. What isn’t observable – are the causes. That’s why it’s a ‘bird problem’ rather than a straight, simple, ‘banana problem’. OK?
Eeyore, I agree that it is hard to discern a trend from one year of data . In fact sometimes it’s hard to discern a trend from three decades of data.
http://yukon.taiga.net/knowledge/resources/seaice_02.html
Aww heck we all know that the biggist amount of HOT AIR comes from AL GORE and the wussies in GREENPEACE and the various other enviromentalists wackos as well as some politicians
Sonny Boy “A”, your name is not Robert. As I stated before, you are not worth having a dialogue with, (remember, you are self confessed ignoramus on technical matters).
The carbon credits plan is rapidly becoming an expensive bad joke for those who were so foolish to particiapte -as donors to it. Fortunately our government chose not to participate. Had we had a Liberal regime in power, no doubt we would have already exported several billion dollars for carbon credits which would not have decreased our pollution levels or our GHG levels one part per million.
The carbon credits plan is just a scam for mo and pals to rape us of hard earned cash.
Speaking of isnt the feds in the US looking for him?
“Erwin: …why don’t you explain how the wonderful carbon trading system is reducing world GHG emissions and how it will be making a better environment for us right here in Canada
The carbon trading system was modelled in part on the US’s domestic sulphur dioxide trading system, which has shown some success in reducing SO2 levels south of the border. So, it can work in principle (though it remains flawed in current practise), as long as restrictions are in place to prevent loopholes and abuse by either credit sellers or buyers, which is what’s happening in certain parts of the world by certain unscrupulous energy companies (and you wonder why “lefty moonbats” are so often suspicious of the motives of the private sector). ”
Actually the most vocal critics right now is Canadian Industry…. (i.e. those who have to buy the credits) as they are seeing a whole host of traders, brokers and con-men setting up in Toronto financial markets to try and make a Killing in “brokering” the carbon credit market. Industry doesn’t mind buying credits… what they object to is the traders and marketers making the rules.
built this into the averages
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/5704359.asp
Iran has stopped selling gas to Turkey as well.
New Zealand had coldest December for 78 years
dpa German Press Agency
Published: Tuesday January 2, 2007
Wellington- Defying talk of global warming, New Zealanders shivered in December, with the capital Wellington recording its coldest start to the southern hemisphere summer for 78 years, according to official figures released Wednesday. The National Climate Centre said that Wellington’s average temperature was 12.9 Celsius, 2.4 degrees below normal and the lowest since records began in 1928.
Even Kaitaia, the country’s northernmost town, suffered a 2.5- degree drop in the average December temperature to 15.6 Celsius, the lowest since records were first taken there in 1948.
The chill has continued into the new year as most New Zealanders are taking their summer vacations.
Snow fell this week on Mount Ruapehu, an active volcano and the North Island’s highest peak at 2,797-metres, and the temperature in Wellington hovered Tuesday around 11 Celsius, about the same as European cities now in the depths of winter.
====== Via RL Goodson
If this global warming keeps up, we*ll all freeze to death. = TG
Sierra,
You said:
“as long as restrictions are in place to prevent loopholes and abuse by either credit sellers or buyers, which is what’s happening in certain parts of the world by certain unscrupulous energy companies (and you wonder why “lefty moonbats” are so often suspicious of the motives of the private sector)”.
Sierra you don’t understand. It is not unscrupulous energy companies abusing the system, not at all. The fact of the matter is that about 50 % of the carbon credits to date, were purchased from the Chinese. The Chinese used these huge cash infusions (several billion worth)
to build new power generating plants. Sounds good, BUT they didn’t build new plants utilizing new low emission technology, they used antiquated low cost, extremely high emission technology. They are now emitting such huge clouds of pollutants and GHGs that National Geographic reported on them in that they can be tracked across the Pacific Ocean. A second report in the Times (online edition) of Dec 27 had a similar report including commentary that it my have serious political fallout (for those who subscribed to this as a means of meeting Kyoto targets). Those who understand the workings of the UN and its inherent lack of discipline, its long history of inefficiency and it’s inability to effectively implement any long term effective program particularly on a world wide basis, it does not come as a surprise, that already, the carbon credit plan has become ridden with corruption, and a sham.
Seyon
Thanks to Robert McLelland & others to point out my mistake about the risk to oil platforms. The original story was vague about the rigs at risk. Turns out one Canadian company (Devon Energy Corp.) is test-drilling off the McKenzie river delta, so far no production. The impact on consumers is therefore nil.
Update on the hype: a search in Google News reveals 408 articles about this story, all over the world. The hype of the original communique from our federal public servants, with its cruise missile analogy, was hard to beat but many accepted the challenge. The news was called “ominous”, the island “huge”, “enormous”, “gigantic”, the Ayes ice shelf was predicted to disappear from the map (yes, and?), we were advised to take swimming lessons (!), etc. Good heavens.
The French daily Le Figaro published a nice color photo of the thing at an earlier age, thanks to NASA. No one noticed it in Oct 2005; they pulled the photo after our public servants turned hysteric.
Manny, in Moncton.
Devon web site, showing production as N/A: http://www.devonenergy.com/operations/canada.aspx?disclaimer=yes
Le Figaro photo: http://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/20061230.WWW000000082_une_ile_de_glace_a_la_derive_dans_le_grand_nord.html