How to Talk to a Troll if you Must

79 Replies to “How to Talk to a Troll if you Must”

1. It might be helpful to post a list of known trolls for new comers to the blog. Just kidding…..well mostly.
   1. steved
   2. bigcitylib….etc

2. Hey, I can’t help it if I’m passionate about something, okay! Oh, wait. I’m not a troll!
   By the way, what would you call a person like me? I find blogs and comment on them, hoping to generate hits on my own blog. After leaving a comment on someone’s blog, I never return to see what they’ve said in reply to me. That’s not a troll, is it?

3. Don’t bother answering the previous question. I won’t be back to see the answer anyway!

4. Here are a coule of 10-year old references you may find interesting. In keeping with the filter thingy, add the http stuff and the www stuff before each:
   faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1/
   faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html

5. steve d isn’t a troll, he is just a socialist. At least he keeps it clean. And the NDP haven’t won a majority in the House of Parliment, so we are still a democracy here in Canada, which means people get to have different opinions, I enjoy different opinions.

6. Good, Kate. You have set the rules, now ENFORCE them. Don’t let the trolls, and feeder/trolls, deliberately wreck your great site.

7. My bad. Consider me chastened.

8. But no one has answered whether trolls have sex under bridges?
   Is trolling a federal offence? Only Vic Toews, Justice Minister is now proposing the
   “Terrorist Trolling Act” which defines sex with trolls who are less than 16 years old as a genetic DNA disorder. Mature trolls can have relationships with younger trolls, but must not engage in conduct unbecoming with humans.
   Trolls who attempt to marry other trolls of the same sex will have a time out at the Red Planet.
   Fraternizing with trolls while unintoxicated, is by order of zee highest authorities “strengstens verboten”.
   I know nuzthing, I see nuzthing!!

9. Trent writes “steve d isn’t a troll, he is just a socialist…”
   If it walks like a troll,
   and quacks like a troll,
   Then it is probably a troll.
   I am not sure where socialists come from. Are they wired backwards at birth or is it something in the water?
   I guess I just don’t get it. Where is the socialist utopia in the earth? To what can we point and say “Socialism is really working for them”?
   Unless I miss my guess, the end of socialism is government ownership and control of all production. Where is the incentive for the individual to freely invest himself or herself if government controls everything. Where is the incentive to take a risk or to pursue a dream? We saw in the USSR (Socialist Republics), the abject and dismal failures they were. Why would we want to go and look to their example and emulate failure?
   It is far too easy to spout fear and hatred of America. The left always figures that if they can point out someone elses supposed faults, then perhaps nobody will notice their own lack of credible ideas.
   I, for one have no interest in seeing the government taking more and more control of my life.
   Daniel

10. I’m one of those who considers myself someone with a different opinion willing to engage in a reasonable debate. But I am curious, if people here consider me a “troll” and why.
    I have explained why I come here and engage in debate in recent post. Though I do try to avoid trollish behavior when possible. I admit, I do sometimes lose my ‘cool’ and insult those I disagree with. But I really do think my overall behaviour puts me outside the troll boundary.
    Given this thread however, I feel it’s a good time to ask if I’m welcome. So let me put it to the test. Read me posts in a recent thread…insert the www required as well as smalldeadanimals dot you know what dot /
    archives/004173.html#comments

11. Own site troller? … where?
    Huffington Post Blocks Whistleblower
    Markos Moulitsas isn’t the only moonbat blogger on the spot tonight, as one of the Huffington Post bloggers charges that the Post’s technology manager was trolling his own site: Huffington Post blogger blocked. (Hat tip: ben_nur.)
    Influential website the Huffington Post tried to ban one of its bloggers after he discovered an anonymous heckler on his blog was actually the Post’s technology manager.
    In his Huffington Post blog, Peter Rost exposed the identity of the heckler – known as a “troll” in blogging parlance – which prompted the Post to temporarily block his access.
    He recounted the incident on a new blog site he created separately to the one co-founded by journalist Arianna Huffington… via LGF

12. It’s so tempting to answer the trolls because they’re waving a red flag at you, just daring you to charge it. As soon as you approach the troll’s red flag, and are about to dismantle it, they hoist another coloured flag.
    I soon identify trolls by the fact that, as Cjunk says, there is NEVER any closure. Once you’ve nailed his/her argument, with extensive documentation and experiential evidence, they ignore your empirical proof of the vacuousness of their claims, and raise another flag, which they dare you to charge.
    Fawgettaboutit.
    When you’re tempted to answer some outrageous insult or “argument” put forward by a troll, STOP, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, COUNT TO 20, AND REMEMBER: THEY’LL NEVER ANSWER YOUR COUNTER-ARGUMENT AND THAT YOU’RE ABOUT TO BE SUCKERED AGAIN.

13. I think most consider me a troll. To me a troll is someone who brings something other than a backslap approval to a question. In other words, I add something different. Spice, if you like.
    I come here for something different from the rah, rah, backslapping that I get at socialist or liberal blogs. Its fine for a while, but then I wonder what the other half is thinking. Then when I arrive on this blog I am usually moved to speak because what I see being discussed lacks a full range of perspective and thought. That is to be expected of course, as I don’t believe that most conservatives are wired the same as socialists(look they all nod and smile in unison at that last remark).
    Nevertheless, I think both sides need to understand each other because neither side is going anywhere, we are both here for the long haul. It is a bit sad that some are threatened and angered by the mere existence of socialism. It seems to infuriate them to actually have to deal with them. Truth is, they probably deal with them every day, they just don’t have to listen to their politics. But those are at the extreme edge of the conservative spectrum and need as much therapy as do those at the extreme socialist end. I am not presently in therapy. 😉

14. All good points. However, I’ve started a 12 Step program for them.

15. Lately, ok4ua and stageleft have fit the troll description. I’ve given counter arguments, carefully thought out AND documeted to their shallow, unreferenced assertions. No response at all, let alone a reasonable one. (I think because they don’t have reason on their side.)
    Trolls or not, their junk made me think and clarify my own thoughts. So, in this situation, one puts out ideas one would like others to consider, as the trolls don’t usually consider anything but their own, stunted navels.

16. For what it’s worth, I seldom or never answer steve d., neutralsam, david brown, and when he was still around, I made a public commitment to NEVER deal with bigcitylib.
    If one person is engaging most of the posters in a debate, making derogatory remarks about their intelligence, for instance rating their university, then it’s probably time to back off. No one poster should be hogging three quarters of Kate’s bandwidth–and nine times out of ten if this is happening, we’ve got a TROLL UNDER THE BRIDGE…RUN!!!!!

17. Oh yeah, add to the list ok4ua, stageleft, and Robert McClelland to the troll list.

18. There are two features, which, if added to blog software, would greatly help:

    1)- a annunciator, either self-search or email notification, to let you know when a comment section you are following gets new replies, and

    2)- an ignore button- the old killfile feature.

19. Isn’t a troll a big hairy unwashed thing that lives by himself?…Ummm…nevermind! 🙂

20. “steve d isn’t a troll, he is just a socialist.” . . . . . and may god have pity on his poor tormented soul.
    Most people grow out of sociliasm as they mature, kinda like when you are a kid and learn about Santa Claus, then move on. The small majority that don’t are just living proof that delusional mental illness isn’t a good basis for political decision making.

21. I don’t think that steved is a troll. He genuinely believes in socialism and he genuinely believes in the empty rhetoric of the left (anti-Bush, anti-Iraq, etc); I think he has arrived at these beliefs more from habit than from research and he’s not interested in changing that ideology. But, he’s not here to insult or trivialize a debate. However, his ‘troll’ characteristic can appear when he is questioned and then, doesn’t answer those questions.
    Robert McClelland is a troll. He simply zips by, flings out an insult, and is incapable of argumentation or debate.
    bigcitylib was/is a troll, for he/she is not merely marinated in socialism as is steved, but trivializes a debate with irrelevant red herrings, solely for the purpose of denigration of others. And, he/she is ignorant of facts, history, etc.
    I don’t think that neutralsam is a troll; he’s a bitter individual, also marinated in socialism, with a deep sense of anger and betrayal at something or other. He’s not interested in changing his pespective; he’s just bitter and angry.
    davidbrown – well, I’m still mulling that over. I don’t think he’s a troll, but, he’s a ‘latte-socialist’.
    I don’t think a troll is someone who simply refuses to drop a debate even when the content has dissipated; I think that a troll is someone who comments but refuses to debate.
    That is, someone who comments but then, when questioned, refuses to answer those questions (yes, steved has been guilty of that). The Comment-But-No-Debate tactic is held by Robert McClelland. And by bigcitylib who would ‘answer’ only by irrelevant red herrings.

22. Is trolling the same as flaming? It’s worrisome, this need to label. If I say something repeatedly, articulate the same argument repeatedly, and that argument runs against the grain of the accepted kant of the blog, is that trolling?

23. steve d – you are being totally disingenuous as usual. You post your repeated ad hominem anti-American screed with hyperbole and no supporting facts. When asked to support a specific statement, you conveniently ignore the direct question and return seamlessly later with more hyperbole. It’s the pattern.
    I consider you are a troll.

24. ET,
    I think ‘latte-liberal’ or ‘blue-liberal’ would describe me better.
    I’m curious why you would think I have socialist tendencies as I thoroughly dislike what the Dippers stand for and have never voted for them.

25. What if the blog author himself/herself is a TROLL i.e. someone who is not interested in the facts or “intelligent” debate, but in some sort of pom pom waving exercise in the greater webosphere?

26. testing…testing… if I see this come up I guess I’m not banned yet

27. It is the blog authors site. They set the tone of debate and we respond. Maybe by definition they do troll for comments. They get a pass because we do not have to be there in the first place. L
    Hard not to respond to the trolls, even on a thread about trolls. Sigh.
    enough

28. Troll-moi, you mean like McClelland? That’s as perfect an example of the type as any I’ve seen. That’s where trolls go to learn the trade.

29. david brown – I suppose it’s because I don’t see much difference between the NDP and the Liberals.
    Admittedly, the Liberals haven’t had any policies for the last decade or so; their only agenda/policy has been to Stay In Power. And, the NDP do have policies, even though I dislike those policies. But, the Liberal actions, to stay in power, have been as manipulative and authoritarian as the NDP policies.
    To stay in power, the Liberals have set up a socialist mode of government. Centralist, statist, anti-individual, top-down, authoritarian, made up of appointed, unelected bureaucrats. Socialist in function, in that the bureaucrats are deemed to have the skills, wisdom, knowledge, while the citizens are ‘beer and popcorn’ peasants. Socialist in function in that more and more and more rules are developed, to cover more and more ‘grey areas’ of life, and remove responsibility and accountability from the individual and give it to the state.
    And, to stay in power, the Liberals have splintered the electorate into Special Interest Groups, under the theme of multiculturalism, tolerance, and have given special benefits to these groups, such as the Gun Registry, SSM.
    Both the Liberals and the NDP are internationally isolate; they will talk a lot but actually do very little pragmatically.
    And, both are utopian. The NDP promise utopia in the future. The Liberals define utopia as ‘now’ (Canada is the best country in the world) and, like Orwell’s Squealer the Pig, endlessly repeat these mantras until the population is so confused they can no longer think for themselves.
    So, I don’t see much difference between the two parties. That’s why Layton is constantly trying to distinguish himself from the Liberals, as they move more and more into “His Territory’. And, Layton is trying to move into the Liberal territory, as the Liberals dissolve, without a leader and without policies.

30. Gosh. I crept out from under my bridge this morning, thought it was those damned goats again, but here was this thread. No mention of me, though, so I guess I’m not one of the trolls referred to here. I feel left out. I couldn’t help noticing that when you subtract all the other people named as trolls, though, you’re left pretty much with an echo chamber.
    Personally, I like spirited debate. I will note, for the record, that when conservatives come over to my site, as they do on occasion, personal abuse is often all that they leave behind. (There are, of course, honourable exceptions, including Debris Trail, Jay Currie and of course Kate herself.)
    It’s well-known that communication solely by text is a risky business. All the bodily cues that are part of face-to-face communication are missing, not to mention the voice cues. Hence emoticons (an imperfect solution) and the almost inevitable histrionics.
    I say this as a former Usenetter, that Fight Club for geeks. The blogosphere is healthier by far, but these combox discussions can go a little awry on occasion. Nevertheless, real trolls are rare, because they can be banned by the siteowner and they know it.
    The point about bloggers themselves being trolls is worthy of some discussion. Kate runs a civil site, but there are others (Dick Evans comes immediately to mind) who fit that description to a T.
    Never mind. Personally, I don’t post on blogs where I am unwelcome. I’ve had a few good debates here, although the signal-to-noise ratio is sometimes unfavourable. I hope to have a few more!

31. Shoot! How could I have managed to leave out my civil and faithful visitor, Mark Collins, in my list of “honourable exceptions?”
    Sorry, Mark. 🙂

32. After reading the comments on this topic, two things become strikingly obvious:
    1) the SDA cheer boys/girls haven’t taken Kate’s suggestions to heart in re: “How to Talk to a Troll”, and
    2) Trolls don’t hold a monopoly on incessant use of divisive labels, name calling and spitting out insults.

33. Dr. Dawg: Using the criteria in the post, how in the world would you qualify as a troll? More like “Not a Troll.”
    Troll-Mois: You can’t be a troll on your own site. It’s your baby… your soapbox… your effort… your choices. If someone doesn’t like them then they can leave.

34. Sometimes it’s just easier to label someone a troll than to admit to the shortcomings of your own ideology.

35. ET,
    Thanks for the explanation on the socialism and liberalism connection in Canada. As I’m the latte version of a political junkie I sometimes miss the subtleties of the super-informed.
    However, I still hold true to the notion that we are all either liberal, socialist, conservative, etc., as a personal core belief.
    What our elected politicians do is another matter. A good example is how PMSH has seemed to take on liberal attributes, ie., his acceptance of diversity and recent ammendment to the Accountability Act that cut some slack for liberals.
    Have die-hard CPCers angered at this apparent liberalization of their beloved leader started calling him a liberal? Or do they see him as a crafty politician that knows how to work a minority government.
    My guess is the latter and calling me a socialist because of what a bunch of self-serving politicians are doing is ridiculous.

36. Iberia,
    Right on. If you are having problems with what someone is saying then look inwards. Playing the blame game only leads to heightened conflict and rarely leads to satisfaction.

37. “self-serving politicians”
    Aren’t those the ones that TROLL for your votes?
    IE The ill reputed LIEBerals whose most recent claim to infamy has been the reckless and carefree use of taxpayers dollars with wild abandon.
    Gosh, they didn’t seem to care too much when 227 BILLION got approved through Parliament on third reading, without so much as raising a question in Official Opposition capacity. With that bravura performance, one would think they will be out of government for a lengthy period of time.
    TROLLED with our own money, courtesy of Guite, Coffin, Brault and all the LIEBeral starry lights who let it all happen without so much as raising an eyebrow. Corruption is according to some a Canadian value proposition.
    TROLLING indeed! I say go swim with the fishes.
    Lets see if someone takes the bait.

38. As a new reader and poster I thank you for the list of known trolls. It will be helpful in knowing who makes sense and who doesn’t on a regular basis. I can save some energy by ignoring them.

39. As I have said before, I get enough spewing of left dogma from the MSM. I come to SDA for some intelligent debate. If someone is merely spewing Michael Moore or the CBC, there is no value in that on this blog. Not all conservatives agree with one another and I look forward to intelligent debate. It was also a relief for me personally to find that there are other people in Canada who don’t fall for the MSM propaganda and are yelling at their televisions and radio as well.

40. I think that several have made valid points about Conservatives acting without civility at times. There are times when I am embarassed to lean to the right because of it. I think we all would like to be treated with respect and that includes our opinions.We ought to treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated. Too many individuals on both sides of the political spectrum use the anonimity that the internet provides as a hedge to hide behind as they throw mud at the passers by. To some extent this is a reflection of the general lack of respect and degredation that we see in society at large. In the end, I can’t do anything to change the other person. I can only set a good tone through the power of a good example.
    I remember some weeks ago when Ted from Cerberus had dropped around and he is most often polite and reasoned in his discussion. On that occasion someone continually made sniping remarks about Liberal corruption and accusing Ted of going on holidays on relocation money etc. The Liberal corruption comment is fair comment but I felt it went too far when the accusations became personal with no supporting evidence. It was just innuendo that was in very bad taste. Perhaps to some extent we can help police each other with a gentle reminder when someone goes over the line but in the end, it is up to each one of us to personally make a dicision to keep the discourse civil or good individuals who may have a contrary point of view will not put themselves through the hassle to come by and comment. I think diversity of opinion is a good thing. Since Steve d has been coming around, I am more convinced than I ever was before about how much I hate socialism, communism and liberalism. In spite of all its faults, I love America and somehow just knowing that Steve d and his crowd don’t, makes me feel better and even more convinced that the hard decisions that have been made to go to war, were good and just decisions. So thanks Steve d for making my day!
    Daniel

41. The one thing that I enjoy so much about Kate’s site is 99% of the time everyone comments are posted. (1% that get band after repeated warnings). When you go on to a newspaper site or TV, we are edited out. Here, we are fortunate to enjoy the freedom of speech. Even if we don’t always agree with someone’s view point. I admit I have got sucked in a couple of times from trolls but now I just laugh when I read a real wing nut comment. Debate is much more effective with out insults and name calling.

42. In my view, the definition of “troll” is more dependant on the tone of an individual’s postings than their specific point of view.
    There is nothing wrong with expressing a viewpoint contrary to the majority of people on a blog.
    Indeed, it could be argued that the problem with many blogs is the lack of opinion diversity. Too often, the blogsphere seems like a minister preaching to the choir.
    What really defines a troll, in my opinion, is somone who responds to arguments with random insults (“moonbat”! “facist”!) without contributing to the argument, never acknowledging the other side’s point. A troll is somone who argues for the sole purpose of stirring sh*t up, rather than seeking a real debate.
    Steve and agitfact, as much as I disagree with them, are not really trolls, because they at least make an effort to have a real debate and usually keep things civil. Ti-guy (does he post here?) is a classic troll.

43. ”
    1. steved
    2. bigcitylib….etc”
    Ryan, why… I’m hurt I wasn’t mentioned by name. I’m the Green, sometimes Liberal, troll that pops in now and then to inject some sanity into the occasional discussion.

44. Now that’s some good trolling, ET.

45. so SDA only wants to preach to the converted. And anyone with any thread of independant thought shall be expelled from this BLog.
    Is SDA some kind of cyber-Talibanish only conservative need apply Blog?

46. I believe there are far fewer trolls than people actually think. We all have a deep appreciation for our own opinions, and often wonder how anyone could sincerely disagree with us. Thus anyone who does disagree with us is just being a trouble maker, a.k.a. a troll.
    Very rarely, true trolls do appear. They are so rare, however, that I wish people would quit worrying about it. It probably does more damage than good. I feel the same way about the term “FUD” (fear, uncertainty, and doubt).
    As to how to deal with possible trolls, I say go ahead and argue with them. Attempting to lay out a convincing argument is good practise. And if you can’t lay out a convincing argument, maybe your position isn’t as sound as you thought.

47. Good points Rabbit. If someone wants to see “real” trolling, head over to Slashdot.org or a major site that allows all comments, and you’ll see the true dregs of society, and the clowns that just want to make a scene. It puts the childish and petty “liberal/name calling” trolling that goes on here in perspective.

48. One of the most stupid,YET accurate political statements I ever heard was from the lips of PM Kim Campbell…”An election campaign is no place for an intelligent debate about the issues!”(paraphrasing)
    Sadly,I have discovered the same may be said about the blogosphere…the anonymity it offers makes it all too easy for someone to make bold and off-the-wall statements that they would never dare make while looking someone in the eyes,getting under conservatives’ skin being their sole objective…And,trolling is not unique to the left as many righties here,even after repeated warnings,seem to live for the dance!Far too many are far too eager to go off topic and engage in ENDLESS circles going nowhere!I again implore my fellow cons on this site,if you are that firm in your beliefs,why do you jump like a trained seal anytime anyone questions them?Have some g*dd*m backbone and stop leaping to defend our ideals from attacks that in MOST cases are completely vacuous!
    My biggest problem with trolls is two-fold…Firstly,they tend to hijack(with the aid of naive righties)otherwise good threads and immediately go to the left/right tiresome exchanges.I have yet to witness anyone say”boy,I sure learned something today”after engaging these hardcore leftists.You see,they are not here to learn OR educate,they are here for attention and to slag the right,NOTHING ELSE.Have you failed to noticed how they generally avoid entertaining threads with non-partisan topics?Nope,no sh*t to be stirred up and flung in the right’s face here!
    Secondly,this trolling tactic POISONS the air between our two camps.We are sooo inundated with trolls at times,that any small L liberal who dare speak his mind here is usually slagged as a troll and leaves here with the impression righties are a bunch of a**holes.And,who could blame them with the amount of insults flying around here sometimes!…These trolls in NO WAY represent the vast majority of small L liberals.How many here are forgetting that when they tag ALL liberal supporters as corrupt,liars(etc.)they are also attacking little old ladies,friends,neighbors and colleagues who are most likely good honest people.
    On a couple of personal forays into the leftists blogosphere,I was immediately attacked upon my partisan leanings becoming known.I WILL NOT be returning!Can anyone here seriously tell me THESE are even adequate conditions for a sharing of differing ideas?Hardly!Even the most openminded small L liberal I have witnessed here(agitfact)seems to have given up on really gaining anything new here,and has fallen prey to the partisan sniping that we ALL too easily resort to.Sad!
    I HATE terrorists,the corrupt LPC and anyone who undermines our war on terror with their selfish attacks on Harper and our allies,combined with their willingness to give terrorists a free pass!…I try very hard to keep my anger focussed squarely on these wastes of skin!
    Nope,the blogosphere is most definitely not the proper venue for an exchange of opposing viewpoints.Extremists from both sides of the political spectrum have seen to that!

49. did you hear about the troll with multiple personality disorder?
    LOL !!!
    p.s. puLEEZE no one take that as a swipe at those suffering from schizophrenia, ok?

50. I find that when a thread is nothing more than a bunch of like minded people agreeing and patting each other’s back that the thread becomes extremely boring.
    Even when Dawg refuses to admit when he gets beat in a debate – usually by Debris Trail or Kate – the rest of us can read it and laugh at his “True Believer” dedication to socialism.
    As long as the debate is clean and on subject, let them have at it. Good entertainment in my opinion.