Yesterday’s launch of the Think Sask advertising campaign to draw investment back to the province features on its website a Quicktime video of “what some successful entrepreneurs have to say about doing business in Saskatchewan”.
“The Greek” asks;
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Yeah. I bet.
(update – the video was pulled)
Kate – Sask has many wonderful people. .Sask needs to get rid of the terrible Dipper outfit in power in Regina before anything positive will happen. No invester in their right mind would invest in a place that houses a Dipper/Liberano government. This is not about geography, it is about trusting the investment climate. A climate of nationalization of resources, people, power and money (Socialist dogma) will never gain the trust of private entrepreneurs IMO.
Entrepreneur? Weyerhaeuser? This is just too hilarious.
The general public might be stupid, but investors are not — they didn’t get rich by listening to NDP BS. Calvert has a very serious credibility problem, and this is yet another example.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Usually I can find a few more words, but that just sums it all.
Has the pool of entrepreneurs in this province become so shallow that we now have to resort to this? What a disgrace! The gophers likely won’t even lift their heads out of their holes this year out of embarassment.
I can hardly wait until the next election for one more opportunity to knock the dippers out of power in this province. I hope the Sask Party is busy greasing the election machine because there is work to be done, soon!
Daniel
Invest in Saskatchewan?
With a communist government who doesn’t understand what’s needed to support the private sector, like with infrastructure and lower taxes to facilitate competitiveness?
Out with the NDP!
Invest in Saskatchewan? What on earth for? Soon as you graduate from the U of S, precious few employers in Saskatoon will touch you. You are “overqualified”. Soon as I scraped together enough cash, I left the province. I had more job interviews in Calgary in 6 weeks than in 6 years in Saskatoon. I am now in Ottawa. At least here I am not “overqualified”. Whatever that means.
Wow, who dropped the ball on that ad? Seriously, Weyerhauser?
Wow.
seems to me that Lorney Calvert was over in China soliciting ( appropriate word) CNPC(China National Petroleum Corporation) to come over and take on the Saskaskatchewan oil sands. Apparently private industry ( CBCpravda- “oil for profit”) isnt good enough for Sask. They must use Alberta as the bad example- after all Alberta is taking their potential workfarm employees.
Saskatchewan’s “can do” attitude is counting on Alberta oil & gas revenue too. Calvert had his “A” game going in warning Harper to that effect prior to the upcoming equalization talks. What can he do? Stop young people from moving to Alberta to find jobs.
Maybe the Saskatchewan government should get off their butts and start talking “CANDU” instead.
Kate the first thing I notice is that the vast majority of these “Sask. Enterprise success stories” is they seem to be either low-tech/labor intensive mahufacturing or raw material suppliers or natural/agri recource industries with no value added processing…it is the hight tech mafg. amd secondary value added resource industries that creat jobs and sustainalbe development….don’t ship wheat ship spagehhie, don’t ship raw petrolium ship petro chemical products.
It shows me that the dipper rein in Sask. has been punctuated by a complete lack of economic vision past the expedient politics of paying complainers ( both labor and industry) to shut up.
Nice Quicktime Pablum.
Just cries out for a parody though.
“Welcome to Workers Socialist Republic of Saskatchewan”
“In the heart of North America, but yet with third world roads!”
“Lunatic politics”
“Hardworking desperate workers happy to take any paying jobs.”
“Low cost of living because there has been a decades long underinvestment due to socializing government”
“Lots of Room : Too many people leave”
“Lots of quality raw materials that you can easily shipped somewhere where high value added operations can be accomplished away from a confiscatory taxes.”
Getting a VP in publicly traded company to talk about Entrepreneurial business is just a small step up from getting someone from CUPE to address the issue. This guy has never fretted about making a payroll, paying the rent or a supplier’s invoice out of his own pocket. Until you have that experience please don’t tell me what it’s like to be in business for yourself. I have run my own business in Saskatchewan for more than 20 years in spite of the government not because of it. It is only because it is in the service industry that they have not put in place specific imediments (other than high taxes and a lack qualified people). The fastest growing segment of my business is coming from current clients moving to Alberta.
Well, they took the video down off the site. Faster than I expected… The NDP are getting good at one thing… damage control…
So far, out of the 6 companies or agencies promoting Saskatchewan on this “Doing Business in Saskatchewan”, I have found firm government relationships with 4, and looking for the fifth. The only one I cannot find a connection with is Coverall.
Here are the links I have found so far…
Media Centre: Latest News: $1.8 million in New Funding Advances Clean Oil Recovery Technology
http://www.ptrc.ca/access/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=7&tabid=318
SaskCan Pulse Trading – Subordinated Debt
http://www.crowncapital.ca/Default.aspx?DN=40,4,1,Documents
Itracks Announces Strategic Partnership with SaskTel
http://www.itracks.com/Pages/04_Press_room/01_Press_Releases.aspx?art=80
Not to say that any of these companies or agencies are bad, but the message this sends to outside investors is you can’t be in business without government involvement.
This is terrible for the perception of business in Saskatchewan…
I agree there has to be some kind of national promotion, but that ad is seriously whacked out if it has a huge multinational corporation that closed operations here speaking on our behalf.
1. Weyerhaeuser may have closed the mill in PA, but are continuing to operate the mills in Carrot River and Hudson Bay. They have not vacated the province, and they have been VERY public about the fact that the decision was not based on the Saskatchewan investment climate, but the international pressures of pulp and paper.
2. The NDP implemented much of the Vicq commission recommendations, and now have an investment and tax climate that is equally as attractive as any other province in Canada.
3. Although it appears leaving to go to Albert as a young professional is an attractive choice, it is important to consider the increases in housing, insurance and transportation.
Business in Saskatchewan?? Not unless you have all unionized employees and are prepared to pay most of your earnings to the government in taxes!
Companies simpley WON’T “invest” here with a government that taxes the hell out of them, competes directly with them or tells them they HAVE to hire unionized employees!!
This idea of the government OWNING/CONTROLLING everything has gone out with white socks but the government just can’t let go of it’s communist ideals.
Until such time as more people pull their heads outa their a$$e$ and punt the welfare/union vote buying ndp-communist government, we’re gonna be none the better. Some of us LOVE this province but refuse to move when it would be just as easy to punt the current government! Why shoule WE give in?? If WE do, then THEY have won and even fewer tax payers are left to support their “social” agenda!! People in this province need to start to THINK ! Business has and that’s why we have so little. When business has had enough, … Lord help us all !
IMHO, the NDP and Fed Libs have consistently looted the mills and small towns in BC too.
Not that long ago, the then very liberal and left wing governor of Washington state Gary Locke would not sit at a negotiating table with the NDP bozo Premier Glen Clark. IIRC neither would the governor of Alaska.
PM Paul Martin took a lot of the BC NDP loser play book with Dosanj and it looks like the Fed Libs are now preparing to take ANOTHER left turn (no surprise there).
I would love to see Sask throw the Dippers out.
Their various track records depict losers (and worse).
It is not the winning that is the big deal (although it is fun), it is just that I HATE losing.
Don’t be too critical!This campaign may just lure in more paving companies.(tee-hee)
need that CANDU right in the heart of the oilsands of Alberta. lots of power, lots of high quality waste heat , and mega amount of low quality waste heat to keep those settling ponds open all year round. plus those greenhouse gassers cant complain that the process emits CO2 until we burn the synthetic crude right in our vehicles.
and who could you trust more with a nuke?
Iran, Libya, Ontario or Alberta.
Dalton McGinty( the man named like a law firm) is showing as much instability lately as the leaders of the first two.
The Saskatchewan Party still hurts from the Devine ’80’s. People still remember how bad Devine was. How much truth is in that I’m not sure, but he did rack up a lot of debt. It seems like the Dippers can do anything and it dosen’t matter. Someone will always say,”Remember the ’80’s.”
No kidding, soup! That has been the Calvert way, When in crisis, bring up Devine and fearmonger your way out of it. The good thing is that time marches on and that old dipper ploy becomes less and less effective. The upcoming Weyburn by-election will be a good guage on the pulse of the voters as we head to the polls in ’07.
Kate,
You should start a subsidiary blog that focuses on Saskatchewan.
You can call it Sask-Watch.
The CANDU had “new technology” on its side 30-20 years ago. But to see how much that Ontario Hydro is spending while trying to keep their old units going and refurbished is a joke… like another multi-billion dollar joke. Only this time, it isn’t like all of Canada will pay for it.
I have heard good things about the S. Korean reactors, and right next to all that uranium in Sask.? well I guess they’d have to build a HIGHWAY to the area first. That’d be the big one. It would almost be funny to see Sask / Alberta go with new technology instead of the +20 years old model from Ontario.
As an aside to the new Saskatchewan forestry centre near P.A. Which opened about the time that Weyerhaeuser announced they were either for sale or pulling the plug. The federal gov’t recently announced they were not going to fund their portion anymore.
Do none of these people talk to each other?
This guy looks far down on the food chain to me. Does the “VP Sask” for Weyerhauser have a seat on the Board? Does the Pres. of Weyerhauser even know his name?
A large international accounting firm did a study of the cost of doing business in nine industrialized nations. Singapore was number one. Of the G7 nations Canada was number one.
Further they broke down the study into geographic areas, looking at small, mid-size, and large cities and the relative cost in each area.
Saskatchewan is in the Midwest/Western US and Canada location.
After measuring the combined impact of 27 significant business costs they showed that the best place in the region to do business was Saskatoon. That’s right, not Calgary or Vancouver, but the socialist enclave of Saskatoon. Edmonton did come in second though. But that was followed in third place by that other socialist enclave Winnipeg. So go figure. Apparently, if you want to do business by the numbers and not the mythology I guess socialism is the philosophy most nourishing to business.
Of the smaller cities, Prince Albert and Moose Jaw were five and six on the list. Regina came in twenty-eight, still not bad out of 128 cities surveyed.
Weyerhauser left because of bad management not because of the cost of doing business. There is no cheaper place in the G7 to do business.
If they are moving to a third world country they should turn the operation over to the workers in Prince Albert, they would make it profitable.
Steve D: Please provide a link to the “Large International Accounting Firm” or their study. Given that I actually run a small business in Saskatchewan, I am sure I will find this study fascinating. It will no doubt be able to help me appreciate the positive impact of these costs. Then I will be able to assist my clients, who are moving in droves to Alberta, to see the error in their ways.
letting the socialist elite write studies about the best place to do business is just another employment scam. the freeflow of goods and materials would suggest that the best place to do business is where the business is located. if you are manufacturing its where either the market is or where the raw material is or where there is low labour costs. the little or major tweaks caused by government subsidies are temporary aberrations. If Saskatoon were really the best place to do business they would have a million people. As it is, it does alright for a agricultural town with a university.We cant all sit around selling each other investments and insurance , the base business of toronto is the miriad of small manufacturers. the best place to do business in Canada is ta da– Toronto- that is where 20% of all the business in the country is. If it werent so , it wouldnt be there.
weyerhauser probably couldnt make a go of it because face it the trees aint that good up there. chip board and chopstick wood at the end of a long gravel road at the end of a poor highway system in the middle of the poorest land on the continent. the sheild gets more barren but it doesnt get any further from the ports.
the point of the candu is the inefficiency. the waste heat is a must have in the oilsands process. its a beautiful thing.
Canard
You do need this information. The company is KPMG. If you go to the download section of the website you can get pdf files with excruciating detail. It is a long read but Saskatchewan does look very good. You will be pleasantly surprised.
I know the grass always seems greener everywhere else, especially with Alberta’s oil. But you know there is going to be a social and environmental price to be paid for all that lightening fast growth.
http://www.competitivealternatives.com/
steve d: I’d really like to see the link to the “Large International Accounting Firm” as well. C’mon, steve – put up or shut up or are you just blowing smoke again?
BCer
I never blow smoke. I will accept your apology.
Go to the website and memorize the fact that Saskatoon, Saskatchewan is a business mecca, if business numbers have more meaning to you than fiction or ideology. You will also notice that our nanny state,Canada is a betterplace to do business than the so-called mecca of Capitalism the USA.
The cost of doing business cannot be calculated on any business that can’t operate in the first place, such as the ones that would compete with the crown corps or the ones that would sell books published in America or the ones that do not include French and metric on all their products or the ones that cannot get a medical billing number.
No apology offered, steve d. I never apologize to doctrinaire socialists. I lived through the 10 year hell of NDP government in BC watching them take us to within an ace of total destruction. If we ever see the likes of Clarke, Dosanj, Sihota and the rest of those clowns again I’m out of here and heading to the province just east of us.
Maybe sda could do a whole thread on the fairly common types of business that cannot be legally (and/or profitably) operated in Canada.
Here is one.
1) A BC business that sells BC softwood lumber in Alberta. I think that still counts even though it may be about to change. None too soon.-sarc-
BCer
Did your government dismantle health care and education before leaving the province 6 billion in debt???? That is what the Conservatives did in Ontario.
Steve D, the federal Liberal government severely cut social transfers during the time of Harris so why blame the provincial Conservatives for the social service message that Martin created?
steve.d – Do you actually believe Saskatoon is the best place in Midwest/Western US and Canada to do business? The numbers you quoted are interesting but obviously they aren’t telling the whole story. Why are businesses flourishing in resource-rich Alberta, but floundering in almost equally resource-rich Saskatchewan? There is an obvious disconnect between KPMG’s numbers and the real story coming from people like Canard. No doubt some things weren’t factored in, like infrastructure and the items mentioned in concrete’s comments. Kate’s picture of “highway” #368 certainly illustrates a cost that probably wasn’t included in the study.
Steve d, it’s pretty hard to argue with the facts: SK is trailing the national average for job creation, despite a red-hot demand for out resources. There is something wrong, and I think it entirely appropriate to blame the solcialist Calvertistas.
“The company is KPMG”
I assume, then, that KPMG has larger offices in the business hotspots because of the presumed “fired up economies”…ie their practices should reflect the economic activity to which they allude.
Otherwise, I would be forced to conclude that something else is at work in their reports.
……
Ben
That report looks very thorough to me. They counted every cost item you can think of, but then that is what accountant do. They obviously spent a lot of time and money putting this report together. To leave out any important variables would negate the entire process. You don’t get to be that large unless you are doing dependably accurate work.
If there is a problem it is probably prejudice. Some people, pre-judge Saskatchewan because it has a socialist government. Many of the readers of this blog wouldn’t guess that Saskatchewan is business friendly but that is what these unbiased American accountants discovered when they let the numbers do the talking instead of the prejudice.
I wonder why all the people, national and regional offices that left BC during our NDP reign didn’t bypass Alberta and go to Saskatoon.
I’m sure that with the ad campaign and the KPMG report companies will be flocking to Saskatchewan. Heck the report didn’t even mention the benefit of all the empty building left by the fools seeking “greener pastures”.
So let me get this right.
The government sponsors an ad campaign promoting investing in SASK. and as a spokesman uses the ceo of a company that just shut down its investment.
Are all politicians nuts? Its comparable to the politicians in BC(both the govermnment and opposition) voting to give themselves a sizable raise after refusing to give the teachers a raise and incurring an illegal strike.
Out of a total population of 3 million in BC there were only 71 people in the whole province(all the elected MLA’s)who didn’t see the bad optics in this.
Horny Toad
steve d., the study you cite is based on the after tax cost of doing business:
“The basis for comparison is the after-tax cost of startup and operations, over 10 years”
If you look at the cities in the list, almost all are from relatively depressed areas. I’m sure you can rent premises cheaper in Saskatoon than Calgary, and that may attract some business.
The study does not include such important things as the costs of government, and the regulatory burden. All those Saskatchewan civil servants can’t be cheap steve, and guess who has to pay for it?
I meant to say if you look at the leading cities in the list, they almost all come from depressed areas.
Even so, the difference between Saskatoon, and Calgary or Edmonton is only a percentage point or two. When you factor in the costs of government, how does Saskatchewan rate?
Hey Steve D Consider the following.
Hmmm. There is an old saying that liars can figure but figures don’t lie. This is indeed an interesting study. I don’t want to discount it completely but my industry (financial services) isn’t even compared. So I decided to take advantage of the ability to compare an industry that is resident in Saskatchewan and Alberta, Agri-Food Operation Food Processing. I Compared Saskatoon, Prince Albert, Lethbridge and Red Deer. Lo and behold Saskatoon has the highest ten year cost followed by PA. Then came the two Alberta cities. Hmmm. Must be an anomaly. So then I tried comparing Automotive car parts cause Belinda and her daddy are planning to relocate Magna to Saskatchewan and Alberta (sarcasm off). Guess what? Same results. So then I finally tried all manufacturing. PA beat Red Deer but Red Deer beat Saskatoon and Lethbridge beat them all. After an hour of playing I discovered that the survey is biased towards R&D and Software development. Boy am I glad. Retail is ignored completely as is the service and consulting sector. So you can set up an R&D software company but you won’t be able to hire an accountant or get a lawyer to help you with your contracts. Engineers are unavailable as are doctors and health care generally. If you relocated based on this information alone, you would be making a huge mistake. I guess most businesses looking to relocate will take the factors in the survey into account but they probably come for a visit, get turned off by the anti-business Dippers and have to pay a surcharge on their car when they turn it in because of the undercarriage damage from the crappy roads. I could go on but what’s the point.
Why Is Millar Weston in bankruptcy despite close to a billion in gov’t loan/subsidies?
Abe from Alberta,
Don’t confuse Steve with rational thought.
Although start-up and operational costs are a concern – especially if you plan to fail or perform under average … most companies ( and individuals) prefer to look at what happens if they are successful.
The other places have a higher ante for a reason.
Ural
It is not my thought you are speaking of but rather conservative American bean counters making a report about the costs involved in doing business. It was written for your heros the Capitalist decision makers who apparently are more interested in actual costing out than in ideology. So the accountants do the costing out,including taxes, and voila, Saskatoon is the most cost effective city in which to operate. Don’t blame or sneer at me if it doesn’t agree with your bias. I just reported that facts, which you can easily see for yourself.
If you don’t agree with socialists or conservatives who do you agree with? Are you a Liberal Ural?
If Saskatchewan is the business friendly utopia that Steve suggests, then why is there an ever increasing stream of humanity and businesses leaving this province in favor of a business climate to the west of us that is welcoming them with open arms. Our population numbers are in freefall. We are now well below a million people once more.
How do the dozens of Crown Corporations factor into your report Steve? They directly compete with and stifle legitimate businesses who finally leave the province out of fear and exasperation.
100 years ago Saskatchewan and Alberta entered Confederation with roughly the same type of predominantly immigrant populations. As for potential wealth, the two provinces are very similar. It could be argued that Saskatchewan has even more potential resource wealth than Alberta as Saskatchewan has both Uranium and Potash. The oil reserves are similar in nature, Alberta’s being more developed. The land masses are roughly equal.
Today Alberta’s population is 3 times that of Saskatchewan with an economy that is the envy of Canada since they paid off the debt.
What is the difference? I have lived half my adult life in each province…18 years in each. I can tell you what the difference is, governance and government policy. Alberta has had Conservative governments for as far back as most folks can remember. Saskatchewan has had socialist governments predominantly with a couple of stints with the Liberals and Conservatives.
So where have the sacred socialist policies of Tommy Douglas, Roy Romanow and Lorne Calvert brought us to:
The countryside is littered with ghost towns for as far as the map will stretch. The province is awash in red ink. Our population numbers are sinking faster than the Titanic. Business is being choked out by a tax burden and regulatory structure that stifles any attempt at growth or diversification. Our infastructure is crumbling beneath our tires. The waiting lists for diagnostics and surgery are beyond resonable explanation. Our greatest exports are our youth and our trained professionals, particualarly health care professionals. The agricultural community are entering bankruptcy faster than the Liberals could drain the treasury through Adscam. The only ones making money in the agricultural sector at the moment are the auctioneers as farms are being sold off at a record pace.
So Steve, I am not sure what measuring stick is being used in your study to paint a rosy picture of business in this province but I can almost assure you that they never set foot in the province and had a good look at what is really going on here. I am reminded of a little saying that goes something like this: “Figures don’t lie… but liars can figure!”
Daniel
steve d. is right. (yes, tongue is firmly planted tongue in cheek). Steve, are you a businessperson? If so, how many people do you employ? Does your business depend on government contracts? Where in the province do you conduct business? Is your shop unionized? I’m interested to know. Because if you’re not a businessperson, then I can understand how you believe 100% of what you read.
Doing business in Saskatoon or Regina is cheaper. But, last time I checked, the depopulation in rural Saskatchewan far surpasses the gains in the two major cities. So, if I’m correct in reading between your blurred lines, you are basically telling me as a small business owner in rural Saskatchewan that has seen revenues steadily drop for the past 10 years to pack up and head for Saskatoon or Regina? And if so, can you give me one good reason why I’d be foolish to get out of Saskatchewan while I still at least have the shirt on my back?
By the way, my company is not a start-up nor is it fully dependent on agriculture (although the depressed farm state is a factor)…it’s been around for close to 100 years (our family, including myself, has been successfully involved in the private sector for four generations now) and I’m about one more government issued piece of red tape from rolling it up and taking what I have left for a fresh, exciting unlimited potential start in a more business friendly place where the population is growing and people don’t try and haggle you down by a buck on a $300 item.
Until Saskatchewan has a long-term government that investors can trust not to turn around and kick them in the junk (ie. NDP), this province will forever be known as Little Moscow (only the USSR had much less obtuse leadership and policies).
By the way, I’m expecting the “Saskatoon Manifesto” to be released soon. Can’t wait. Should be a good read…I wonder if it’ll come on a stone tablet or if the gov’t has modernized itself enough to use a quill?