Yesterday’s launch of the Think Sask advertising campaign to draw investment back to the province features on its website a Quicktime video of “what some successful entrepreneurs have to say about doing business in Saskatchewan”.
“The Greek” asks;
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Yeah. I bet.
(update – the video was pulled)
Mr. “Excellent place to establish a business and grow a business” Smith:
Steve Smith Accepts Weyerhaeuser Role in Vancouver;
Vancouver, Wash., April 24, 2003
…His most recent role was that of VP, Saskatchewan, a role he assumed in 2000. He will continue his role as VP, Saskatchewan, leader of the Saskatchewan Management Council and president of Wapawekka Lumber Ltd. for the near term…
…Smith and his wife Judy, a retired Weyerhaeuser employee, are relocating from Prince Albert to Vancouver in May…
The reason that people are leaving Saskatchewan in droves is because they can’t get jobs – especially jobs they are qualified for. As a University Grad there are 50 times the opportunity for good employment in Alberta than in Saskatchewan and that’s the honest truth – unless you expect University grads to work as a cashier in WalMart or Superstore. Why are their no jobs in SK for University grads? NDP government says it all for me.
It doesn’t matter what government is in Saskatchewan the fact remains that geographically it makes no sense whatsoever for any business of substance to locate there.
No shipping ports, too far away from major industries to piggyback, too cold for a vacation destination, too flat to be scenic, just too too little of everything.
Even people that were offered free land at the turn of the last century got out as soon as they could.
David Brown…that is a bit of a stretch what you just said.
Apart from the Rockies, what difference is there say 100KM from the mountains to Saskatchewan border to Saskatchwan itself?
Sask has a lot of scenic areas. Sask has a lot of oil. Sask had a lot of young people looking for work.
Take a look at a geological map of wells being bored, have been, and oilfield activity between the two provinces.
For some strange reason, most of the oilfields end sharply along a ~110 longitude.
Sask could start up a nuclear power development centre and build them.
Sask sadly, is a story of wasted talent.
IMHO what Davis Brown wrote is a bunch of cwap (scuse my language).
tomax7,
It may be a bit of a stretch but location really is everything. Apart from natural resources there really isn’t a heck of a lot going on.
I hope the good pepole of Saskatchewan don’t take offense because they’re not to blame. In fact on the few roadtrips I’ve taken through the province I’ve found the people to be the greatest resource, helpful warm and friendly.
However, as a business person and shipping costs what they are I’d rather do business with a company that is 5 KM away rather than one that is 100 KM. It all boils down to dollars and cents. Romantic notions don’t improve the bottom line.
Pissed off
You must realize that there is a process going on and is virtually complete in North America. This process is called urbanization. Over the last hundred years almost all rural communities have seen decline in favour of urban communities. If you have a rural based business and depend on a rural base to survive it is time to think outside the rural box. It is not going to get better for you where you are.
Today rural means large integrated farms, industrial farms and leisure activities. If you can plug into these, fine, but if you need larger numbers of customers to maintain your business then an urban transition must be made.
David Brown, you are not a recent history student are you? Sask. was the destination of thousands of people around the turn of the century – not Man, B.C. or Alta. – because of it’s rich soil. Sask also has many beautiful places to visit. Sask lives right next door to markets in Alta and Montana.
The Dirty thirties drove many people out – I don’t know what ’emmission’ caused that climate change, possibly emmissions from horses! – anyway…now the Dippers, offshoots of the CCF, (complet with a preacher as premier!) are driving out any but gov’t type workers with high taxes. The people listined to T Douglas and they kept his far out cult alive. this is what keeps Sask down.
Sask could be the ‘breadbasket’ of Canada as well as a major producer of minerals and oil. Dippers have no imagination and no will to create prosperity because if a place becomes prosperous the Dippers disappear from the landscape.
Jema54,
Thanks for the info.
This begs the questions…Who voted for CCFers and why do they keep voting Dipper when their sons and duaghters have no future under their sick leadership?
Is the ghost of CF Woodsworth that alive.
Some of us in Ontario used to refer to the CCF as the Chaos Confusion Frustration Party.
It is commonly thought that “The Dirty Thirties” occured due drought. We have had worse droughts since in Sask.
While there was a drought, the largest cause was the improper farming techniques and the simultaneaous cultivation of the native prairie. Compound this with the great depression and things get very bad. As a result many of the prairie settlers took out homesteads further north and began clearing land.
That is why many southern towns were incorporated in first decade of the century and the northern towns mainly have incorporation dates in the thirties.
The people who voted for CCF are the same people who voted for the last 13 years of Liberals, voted for 2 terms of NDP in BC, Bob Rae in Ontario and have now voted for Mcguinty. People who want to have their cake and eat it too and believe that government will solve all their problems.
enough
enough,
How can they be the same people living in that many different locales? Who are these selfish drifters that want to eat the cake they purchased? Why did they settle in Saskatchewan, the province with the fewest bakeries?
More cwap.
David and steved have little understanding of the value of natural resources or of the people in rural areas who maintain those resources that help pay for Daves’ and steveds’ subways and hospitals.
Steve d,
“If you don’t agree with socialists or conservatives who do you agree with?”
I do agree, for the most part, with the conservatives. But I also have my own small business. I know that start-up and operating costs, while important, ran close to last in my evaluation of “do I start”. It is a major factor if you are under funded … but I doubt many entrepreneurs would move to Sask because they don’t have enough money to start where the are.
As far as the US based accountants picking Sask – it happens … even though the left has a monopoly on stupid. A classic example of looking at the map instead of the terrain (Highway 368 looks like any other highway on a map).
NDP governments add to much risk for businesses. The big boys get all sorts of guarantees to mitigate the risks – and take off while their still ahead.
I like Saskatchewan. I have vacationed there, have relatives (now in Alberta) born there, worked for a Sask based company (early 70’s), have customers there, and have taken numerous business trip there in the past (none to private companies). Everything positive. Set up a business there because of a “business friendly” NDP government… ya that’s a big 10-4.
NDP gov’t that have a history of creating landbanks, expropriating potash mines will never garner enough credibility for any of the business community to trust them again.
Further more. I wouldn’t expect business to break down the doors to get in here right away if the Sask Party got in.
I think they may have a wait and see attitude to see if the people in this province are stupid enough to elect the NDP again 4 years later.
Business won’t drink the NDP kool aid
notasocialist
Maybe they should elect Grant Devine again.
The NDP almost has Saskatchewan out of debt so it must be time to elect a conservative cut and spend guy. Kinda like the guy in Ottawa, cut taxes and spend money. It makes sense to me. At least it makes sense in a conservative kind of way. You know, take in less tax and spend more tax money you don’t have and leave office with a big debt. Yeah, just like Saskatchewans last Conservative premier.
Conservatives are business friendly though. In my province they sold a public highway in a desparate effort to balance the books. The deal was so sweet these guys can raise the tolls anytime they please and, if you don’t pay they can withhold your license! Yep, a private company was given the right to withhold your license until you pay their toll. The new Liberal government tried to take them to court to get out of it but the judge said no its in the contract the province can’t do anything about it. Not for 99 years anyway. Yes Conservatives are business friendly alright I will vouch for that. Look at Alberta a sweeet oil deal for the oil companies. 1% royalty to the Province until ALL costs are paid and then it will go up to 25%. I will tell you now it will be many many years before the oil companies pay down their expenses. Yes, very business friendly. I am sure Albertans are real proud of the tough clever oil dealings of their Conservative government.
Hey, Kate, your website was on CKTV News, Regina, at 11:30 tonight credited with outing the “Think Sask.” screwup. It was great to see “www.smalldeadanimals.com” on the screen for 10 or 15 seconds!
Hey, Kate, your website was on CKTV News, Regina, at 11:30 tonight credited with outing the “Think Sask.” screwup. It was great to see “www.smalldeadanimals.com” on the screen for 10 or 15 seconds!
Once again steve and boys run to the defense of the current provincial regime. And, once again, the lead is Grant Devine. Let’s follow the argument:
NDP put up a website to attract business and use a closed business and several others that have direct government investment as examples.
Some people think that is pretty dumb
Steve’s rebuttal?
– Grant Devine and all conservatives (or more accurately, non NDP) are bad
– Albertans are unhappy with the oil producing royalty environment.
Helpful, on point and the last post I will read from this revisionist member of the Thought Police.
It is a testament to the thoughtful, erudite and FACTUAL, contributors to this site that the agents of the Ministry of Truth have taken such an interest in SDA.
There is an old saying that you know you are getting over the target when you start to see the flak.
Go SDA!
What the Devine bashers never mention is that during his term, Saskatchewan endured several years of severe drought, the NEP and $10 a barrel oil, low uranium prices, potash industry depression and 22% interest rates.
However, I could still drive from Kenaston to Yorkton at normal highway speeds. Two days ago we crawled down that highway. It was indeed, “third world” in many places.
And anyone who holds up Saskatoon as an example of economic growth and business activity on the Northern plains hasn’t been to Fargo ND lately.
My main point about Devine was that he tried to re-start the argrarian age when in fact we have been in a post-agrarian age for at least a hundred years.
Oh yes, of course we need the rural areas for our raw materials, and sustenance,but with the industrial age came mechanization and then the sciences hooking up with capitalism made large endeavours more practical(efficient) than small.
Devine should have known that urbanization of the entire world was a given. It is the urban areas that define a country, not its rural.
People all over the world recognize Canada by
its urban landscape, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver
Calgary etc. not its rural farms.
He placed his money in rural Saskatchewan trying to save the unsaveable. That is why companies like KPMG don’t do business reports on rural Saskatchewan but rather on urban Saskatchewan.
This is not my decision. This is a natural result of human evolution. Cities are growing in every country on earth. Our biggest challenge with the agri-business is to cut production to levels that make it still economically feasible.
It is far too efficient for its own good at the present time.
While everyone insists on slamming Saskatchewan and its government, I think you ought to know they are at least putting the peoples money into productive ventures while pulling Saskatchewan out of debt.
If putting a highway in to service a community of 500 is not a high priority well,I think any government would agree with that..except the Devine government of course. With him it was, “Highways for 500 coming right up!”. That is why he almost bankrupt the province and the people kicked him out. If the economy is going through rough times you don’t spend like a drunken sailor.
Steve:
You claim Saskatchewans debt is being paid.
Not true. Check stats can http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050912/d050912a.htm
Only 3 provinces have a higher debt per capita than Saskatchewan and Sakatchewan’s debt rose 2.6 % from 03 to 04 with a “balanced budget”.
Our debt has tripled since the ndippers took over and borrowed money from the stabilaization fund to balance the books.
If you were to use this method to balance your credit cards and bank accounts it would be called kiting and is illegal.
steve d; I guess you don’t travel much. The depopulation of rural areas in Sask is an attempt by Culvert to convert all those pesky independant people who live in the rural areas into ‘workers’ of a collective farm aka OLD Soviet Union. In Europe and the U.S. there are thousands of independant farmers who make a good living selling their produce. A city person has a tough time learning to farm but the silly Culvert thinks he can coherce the farmers he taxes out of independace to work for the state. Not likely with Alta right next door. The dippers like poverty for the people (keeps them controlable); Sask and any other jurisdiction that elects them or the ‘nom de plume’ of dippers, Liberals, is doomed. The Yukon territory is a good example of stagnation following Dipper/Liberano gov’ts. Everyone lives in Whitehorse and everyone lives off the gov’t handouts from the rest of Canada. Throughout the Liberano reign in Ottawa, the Liberanos shoveled millions of dollars into a stagnant pit – nothing is produced in the Yukon, yet 29,000 people live high on gov’t handouts. The Yukon has lots of minerals, gas and oil but the environmentalists and socialists want the whole territory to be a park. We have had a weak knee Conservative gov’t – touchy feely because the premier was once a dipper- for the last 4 years who spent none of their political capital and now the people who live here are thinking that a dipper/Liberano outfit will keep them on the dole. Most real Yukoners are long gone to Alta or B.C.or the U.S.A. The people who live here now are mostly Dipper/Liberano transplants who only live here because of all the money they earn via their gov’t jobs with lots of perks (Northern perks bribing them to live in the north); if the perks and $$ go they will too. Sad state of affairs.
Investment has started again under the Yukon Conservatives but it is too little, too late. The investor will vaporize if the people elect a Dipper/Liberano territorial gov’t. – sadly, the blind folded transplants likely will.
Well yes and no steve d.
TO make a market grow you need to be able to move the goods to the market, or in other words transportation.
To call a unpaved potholed backroad a highway is a stretch by any means.
If the local economy is paying a lot, well reason is part of that payment is maintenance of highway.
It wasn’t just a highway to 500 people, it was a highway to a company that pays millions of dollars in taxes and wages, they should have something to show for it…
Jema54
66% of Saskatchewan farms are family owned. This is a higher percent than Alberta or Manitoba.
Large agri-business farms are the invention of Capitalists who want vertical integration of their food business.
It is highly efficient because they typically use the latest technology and science. The family farm cannot,on its own, compete.
This is not called communism it is called progress. It is what built North America. It is a willingness to change and apply the latest and best theories, science and technologies.
It is not impossible to imagine the family farm surviving but they will have to be clever and nimble. Perhaps finding a niche in the fast growing organic food market.
tomax7
You will be thrilled to know that the second largest commitment of money in the last budget was for roads. 345 million. That amount is only exceeded by their building of schools and health facilities and such 407million.
So it looks like the government noticed the roads too.
Looks like a asshole to me
The Sask farmers are going to get rich selling grain to plants to make ethanol,I also sell swamp land in various locations. These plants are going to buy the cheapest ugliest crap they can get so they make the profit not the farmers, thats business
steved, the Sk provincial debt is in excess of 11 billion, and counting: the fiscal stabilization fund is a fraud, as it has no money: and you dippers are projected to dip into it again this year;
Divine was a different type of polician in very different times. He was not a bogeyman, he was far from perfect, but he did not bad cosidering the circumstances.
Consider this: 10 years ago, Alberta was 10 billion in debt: now it’s debt free; it is also dipper-free and rat-free. SK debt is going up, population down, depite what should be about the best of times.
We have so much potential in SK, but it is all pssd away by the cult of mediocrity that is today’s SK NDP.
ps: Long live cheap residential utility rates! Long live the lb! horray for SGI! Please, Calvert, protect us from the terrifying ravages of freedom!
Steve d,
I’m going to combine your questions of the thread Hellway 638 with your statements on this thread.
In the Hellway thread you compared Alberta’s economic management with Norway and Alaska. I suggest we compare Alberta and Saskatchewan … they are both in Canada, they are side by side, they entered confederation the same year, they had roughly the same population in 1905 (Sask was actually a slight bit higher), they are roughly the same size and they started with the same potential (natural resources wise).
Your statement-
“You will be thrilled to know that the second largest commitment of money in the last budget was for roads. 345 million.”
Well, actually capital budget is of more interest – Sask is spending $150.7M on this the next year. Alberta (those conservative idiots) will be spending this amount every 6 weeks.
Check out the Alberta budget:
http://tinyurl.com/hqgn8
And compare it to the Saskatchewan budget:
http://tinyurl.com/ffgwc
Also note that Alberta is values it rural folks and has allocated an additional $100M for them.
Compare Alberta’s Trust fund with Saskatchewan’s. Compare Alberta’s debt with Saskatchewan’s. Compare Alberta’s population (and population growth) with Saskatchewan’s. Compare Alberta’s taxes with Saskatchewan’s. Then just for fun – compare the political powers in charge for the last 70 years.
Saskatchewan
1935–44 William John Patterson Liberal
1944–61 Thomas Clement Douglas CCF
1961–64 Woodrow Stanley Lloyd CCF
1964–71 William Ross Thatcher Liberal
1971–82 Allan Emrys Blakeney New Democratic
1982–91 Donald Grant Devine Conservative
1991–01 Roy John Romanow New Democratic
2001– Lorne Calvert New Democratic
Alberta
1935–43 William Aberhart Social Credit
1943–68 Ernest Charles Manning Social Credit
1968–71 Harry Edwin Strom Social Credit
1971–86 Peter Lougheed Conservative
1986–92 Donald Ross Getty Conservative
1992– Ralph Klein Conservative
In short Steve d, you and your party can sell your story to the NDP voters in BC and Ontario … we’re not buying it, and would appreciate a mass exodus of NDP voters.
It must be all the natives & the old codgers who are still reminiscing about Tommy Douglas who are voting NDP in Sask. And when you think about it, that’s about the biggest demographic of the whole province. Most everyone else has left…..
We moved to SK about 16 years ago after many years in B.C. and a couple of years in Alberta. When discussing problems/ opportunities for impovement with long-term SK residents, the most common comment they would make is “the government should do something about that.” It was quite a culture shock to me since the government is the absolute last choice I would come up with as being the solution to ANY problem.
Paul,
“It was quite a culture shock to me since the government is the absolute last choice I would come up with as being the solution to ANY problem.”
The government is the solution to the problem when the government is the problem.
ural,
“The government is the solution to the problem when the government is the problem.”
Maybe. Maybe an example of when less is more, such as when less government involvement results in a more favourable outcome. But that’s hypothetical – haven’t ever noticed a reduction in govt. involvement once they are involved to any extent. Maybe once the CPC gets a majority.
Maybe invalid use of the term “solution”. When you reduce an equation by crossing things out the things you cross out are not usually named the “solution”. That’s the name for what’s left not what was removed to make the solution possible.
AB’ns usually say “we (or I) should do something”
BC’ers usually say “somebody should do something”
Only “SK’ists say “the govt. should”
Paul,
I wasn’t slagging you. I agree with you 100% … almost … still not sure about BC … to many NDPers, unions (BTW I live in BC now).
Kinda saying that if I know that I, someone, or the gov’t is the problem – than the only solution to the problem is I, someone, or the gov’t. I also know that I am the only one that I can control.
Ural
I am sure this was just an oversight on your part but you forgot to compare the oil and gas reserves in Alberta and Saskatchewan. You may find that Alberta has a little more of these precious commodities than Saskatchewan or any other province or all the rest of North America.
Unless the Conservatives put the oil and gas in the ground I don’t think they really have too much to brag about. Rather, they should fall on their knees and thank God every day for his bounty.
I guess that your offense strategy to compare Saskatchewan and Alberta means that you would rather not discuss the tiny heritage fund that Alberta has put away. That’s okay I understand. There isn’t much to say except Ralphie is not doing his grandchildren any favours by saving so little for future generations while not giving dividends yearly to todays Albertans. Maybe they don’t notice so it doesn’t matter. But that is what the Liberals thought when they were wasteing tax money and we know what happened to them in the last election.
The NDP supporters would never leave a good thing. Saskatchewan has a more balanced economy than Alberta. Sask gets 11% of its income from oil and gas while Alberta gets 70% of its income from oil and gas. Sask has mining, manufacturing, high tech, and farming. They are better set up for long term sustainability. The story of Alberta and Saskatchewan reminds me of the old story of the Tortoise and the Hare. The Hare is flashy, fast and swaggers. The tortoise puts her head down and quietly just keeps on keeping on. In the end we know what happens.
bushman
I think you may be repeating yourself in this statement;
“it is also dipper-free and rat-free.”
Steve d,
Blah, blah, blah. You’ll never convince me or any one with a mind to move to a NDP Government controlled province. It directly reflects on the province.
I noticed in your budget they have $5M allocated to get 5,000 new immigrants … didn’t see that line item in Alberta’s budget.
BTW: steve b from Saskatchewan – I don’t live in Alberta. Just looking at the report card – Alberta gets honors, Saskatchewan … failing … attitude problems … can not accept responsibility for their own actions.
And steve b from Saskatchewan you get .7% of new immigrants … Saskatchewan has 3.1% of the population of Canada … you can’t even fool the new ones.
steve d,
Sorry – that should have said steve d instead of steve b.
steve d.
Grated Alberta is blessed with natural resources, mountains, lakes, fishing, farming, cattle, wheat, and oil.
Now say that for Saskatchewan. The only difference is mountains, unless you call that garbage dump hill near Saskatoon a mountain 😉
Alberta was a need province till oil revenues helped her out, and this with the NEP also.
Sask has lots of oil, maybe the same as AB? Well story is, why aren’t there more wells being drilled?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilpatch
Interesting links.
Hey Kate, where was that map showing oil wells or exploration being done in Alberta vs Sask side by side?
tomax7
Alberta is giving its oil away that is why they are rushing there. The deal is Alberta gets 1% royalty unless and until all the expenses and costs of the drilling company are paid.
Try going for a loan and tell the bank you will pay it back if and when your business is profitable. They would laugh you out of the bank.
If and when the oil companies start to show a profit(maybe never?) then the royalty will go up to 25%.
In Saskatchewan the deal is that after you have taken out a certain amount of oil every barrel after that pays a royalty of about 27-28%.
So the companies are going after the fire sale Alberta oil like pigs at a trough.
Saskatchewans will go more slowly but at a fair rate of return. It is a non renewable resource its price is only going up over time. It is used in a myriad of ways so there is no big rush to give it away.
The nice thing about Saskatchewan is that conservatives don’t have to live there. They are just a short drive from the utopian Alberta. Why would even one Saskatchewanikan stay with paradise just down the road? Go figure.
Meanwhile I will do some more reading of Sask economics.
The map that was referred to by tomax7 can be found at:
http://www.prairiecentre.com/capital-punishment.htm
It’s interesting to note for all the socialists out there that, contrary to popular belief, all dinosaurs did not cross over to AB to die. Some NDP dinosaurs hung around and look at what we have today.
Then again, maybe all the dinosaurs got sick of the dippers and bolted to AB, hence we have no oil or gas in SK. 😉
this is in reply to a comment some time back that Weyerhauser closed it’s PA mill due to bad management . I’m sure that was probably a surprise to them . But for a slightly different analysis visit
http://www.prairiecentre.com/pdf/2005/2005-10-18.pdf
I noticed at the Weyerhauser web site that they closed three mills in Ontario in 2003. I wonder if it was the fault of the Conservative government at the time? If mill closings are the fault of governments then the Conservatives in 2003 were worse than the NDP of 2006.
Question: If Conservatives are pro-business why would business desert them? I mean 3 mills closed. They didn’t run out of trees thats for sure. These were in the north. Its all trees up there.
…true, not sure why Alberta has only a 1% royalty fee, sorta wondered about that.
But then again there is other ways of collecting money, as in taxes.