44 Replies to “More Fun With Cartoons”

  1. Just sent the following to my local Sun media outlet. We’ll see if they print it:
    The escalation of anger in the Middle East over the recent cartoons depicting the Islamic prophet Mohamed appears to be receiving scant attention in the Western media.
    While Europe stands shoulder to shoulder in defense of freedom of speech and against intimidation and censorship of the press, the West remains notably silent and unwilling to do the same. One must wonder if the same hesitation would occur if these cartoons depicted a caricature of Jesus or Buddha?

  4. Jaymeister,
    I can’t speak for Kate, but when I see all of these cartoons from the Muslim world, their reaction to the 12 Danish cartoons seems completely out of proportion. Western giants like Mr. Clinton do not come out and condemn these drawings. Is it really reasonable for them to be shouting, shooting, burning flags, calling for boycotts, when their own media routinely publishes inflammatory/derogatory editorial cartoons? If they do not like the 12 Danish cartoons, they can write letters to the editors, but they cannot hold entire countries responsible for what’s published in the independent press.

  5. Jaymeister,
    I would think it’s a little apparant that whereby the most heinous characatures of Jews and Christians are not even given a second thought, a bunch of cartoons about islam are about to cause a civil war. The juxtaposition of the two illustrates very clearly the problem with islam. Can’t you see the blindingly obvious hypocracy of people who produced the cartoons Kate linked to whining about the much tamer cartoons printed in the MSM? Have Jews threatened to go on a rampage because of the cartoons listed? No. So far only muslims have done that.
    The cartoons were printed to make a point that too many of the followers of Islam are violent and intolerant. The Muslims are making their best effort to confirm it, too.
    The other point they were making is that freedoms (such as of the the press and of speech) are vital in a democracy and that muslims MUST accept them and the culture they moved to. Europeans and othere westerners must be able to maintain their culture and not be forced to kowtow to the demands of muslims. If not, there will be war.
    I think it best to have this confrontation now rather than when there are a higher percentage of the population to deal with. Tolerance MUST go both ways. Right now, it’s a slight unbalanced.

  6. May I remind you, Jay, that this is not about RACE, but about BELIEF.
    Or have you been brainwashed into thinking that anything you are not comfortable with or unwilling to think through should be labeled as “racist, homophobe, hate monger,” etc.
    Your type is so boring and predictable.

  7. These are clearly political cartoons. Nothing to do with racism or any other intolerance. They make commentary on the happenings of the real world and the players in it. Why is it ok to have critical cartoons about the good guys like Bush and Harper but not about Islamotyrannical terrorists who go around chopping off the heads of innocent people who, btw, are only in the MidEast to HELP Muslims?
    Let the left think about it that way, if it’s possible for a leftist to learn how to think and understand rather than thinking what the left tells them to think…

  9. BTW, how come moonbats get to walk around with t-shirts on with the Christian cross on them and the caption “Bad Religion”? Yes, I see this in public. How come they don’t get arrested and put into prison for hate speech? Why doesn’t the left and the MSM say anything about this? Why didn’t Paul Martin promise to ban intolerant t-shirts?
    I’d like to see people walking around unharrassed wearing t-shirts saying the same thing about Islam. Or about, say, some kind of sexual-orientation minority group. Fair is fair. If it’s ok to defame the Judeo-Christian people, then it’s ok to defame all people. But the left doesn’t want to be fair. Nope.

  10. I think this is a fair and measured response to all that has been going on:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060202/ca_pr_on_na/cda_prophet_drawings
    But since y’all are hung up on “moral equivalencies”, let’s talk about that for a moment. When the whole Abu Grahib thing was happening, the response from the Right was, “Well, it loooks bad, but what we do is nowhere near as horrible as what the enemy does, so nobody should complain.” So the standard of acceptable conduct is supposed to be defined by our enemies, or by the oppressive regimes of the world? I think our enlightened and tolerant society would strive for more. And at this point in time, we have much more power to affect what happens here than what happens over there. So I agree that those anti-Christian/Jewish cartoons from the Muslim world are disgusting, but let’s not pretend that anti-Islam cartoons are merely a political statement.

  11. >>I think our enlightened and tolerant society would strive for more
    Ha, your ‘enlightened and tolerant’ society is soon to become cannon fodder for the muslims masses which are quickly over-running Europe.
    This is becoming about our SURVIVAL. Europe will soon be a society unrecognizable as a Western cultural.
    The only benefit to this is that Liberals will be hhut up permanently. The Mullahs aren’t going to telerate that nonsense.

  12. I challenge all right leaning blogs to reprint these cartoons. Not just link to them but actually show them. En masse. Time to send a strong and unequivicle message to those that have no problem sending the opposite message to us.

  13. Hell, this isn’t even a right/left issue. I challenge anyone that believes in freedom of speech to reprint these cartoons.

  14. Jeff,
    That is exactly what I was getting at with my original question. If this is a freedom of speech issue, then wouldn’t those anti-Christian and anti-Jewish cartoons also be fair game? At what point is the line crossed, or should there even be a line? I’m asking you seriously. And I’m asking for your own opinion, not based on how you believe the “left” might react. Speak for yourself in a vacuum.

  15. Warwick “I would think it’s a little apparant that whereby the most heinous characatures of Jews and Christians are not even given a second thought”
    Well we do have a “war on christmas” in North America because over the offensive term “happy holidays”.
    But I agree with you that there are some Muslims in need of serious chilling out.

  16. Jaymeister, freedom of speech is an inherent right within Western society. Does this mean we have to accept what is shown? Of course not. We can disagree vehemently with what is shown. However, there is a protocol for doing so, diplomatically and responsibly. We don’t issue death threats or kidnap those that have any nationality resemblance to the offending party’s nationality. We can certainly boycott, write letters, protest peacefully, etc.
    What we are seeing with this cartoon row is beyond the pale. We are seeing intimidation in the form of violence. We need to stand up against this rather than shrink from the confrontation. What do you think would happen if we appease this violence? Do you think it will go away or do you think it will be emboldened to realize that threats of violence work?

  17. If we’re willing to cave in on a founding principle like free speech to appease them, western women being forced to wear the veil because it offends them will not be far behind…
    D

  19. Jeff, I never suggested appeasing the violence. I think the violent reaction to these cartoons is outrageous – on that point we’re all in agreement. My original point of contention is that Kate attempted to point out the hyprcrisy of the protesters by showing the cartoons they ingest on a daily basis, but in so doing, opened up a can of worms in trying to define different degrees of “offensive”. I’m all for free speech, but does your free speech include allowing our newspapers to print what the Arab papers print? That’s what I was asking.

  20. An important difference between the cartoons: The Danish ones were mocking Islam, by portraying the image of Muhammad, which is forbidden. The Arab/Muslim cartoons (as tasteless as they are) depict race hatred and the never-ending feud between the Israelis/U.S. and the Arab world. I am sure you would see interesting reaction from the Catholic/Christian world if images were presented mocking Christ or God.
    This of course does not condone the violence or threatened kidnappings of foreigners proposed by some Arab elements. Freedom of the press (speech) is a critical right, but a little common sense would help in exercising this right.

  22. Ah, Maple Stump, why did you spoil the joke? I envisioned several more posts both on here and on his peorsonal blog on “Bad Religion.” Lordy, he is such an ass.

  23. I don’t think it’s an issue of freedom of expression or freedom of speech which has to do with freedom from prosecution or government control. That argument can the refuge or defense of a lot ridiculous and offensive “it’s my right”.
    The issue is something different: good taste, promoting healthy dialogue, and the responsibility of people to respect other cultures, viewpoints, religions.

  24. “I’m all for free speech, but does your free speech include allowing our newspapers to print what the Arab papers print? That’s what I was asking.”
    No I would not want that printed. However, as I said before, I would use peaceful means in order to protest this if it occured. This is my point.
    We don’t have to agree with what is printed, but we can express our disapproval in a peaceful, diplomatic, and measured response…..something not occuring within the Islamic community.
    “I am sure you would see interesting reaction from the Catholic/Christian world if images were presented mocking Christ or God.”
    You mean like the “Piss Christ”? A vat of urine with a statue of Christ emersed within. This is currently on display as is a statue of “Dung Mary”. Nowhere have I heard of a death threat resulting from this blasphemous spectacle.

  25. Author: batman
    We wake up this morning to see video on CNN showing rampaging Muslims around the world. In Europe, the Middle East, the Pacific Rim … Muslim Mobs spreading mayhem. It seems that these mighty mad Muslims are rioting and firing their ever-present AK-47s into the air because of cartoons. Yup … this latest epidemic of Muslim outrage comes to us because some newspapers in Norway and Denmark published some cartoons depicting Mohammed. In fact … here is one of my favorites!
    Admit it, this turban/bomb thing could be the next big fashion hit on the Muslim street!
    Muslim outrage huh. OK … let’s do a little historical review. Just some lowlights:
    -Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia. A Christian school. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt. No Muslim outrage.
    -A Muslim attacks a missionary children’s school in India. Kills six. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia. Muslims shoot children in the back. No Muslim outrage.
    -Let’s go way back. Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses. Over 700 are injured. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons. No Muslim outrage
    -Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world. No Muslim outrage.
    -Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge. No Muslim outrage.
    -Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed. Muslims are outraged.
    Dead children. Dead tourists. Dead teachers. Dead doctors and nurses. Death, destruction and mayhem around the world at the hands of Muslims .. no Muslim outrage … but publish a cartoon depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban and all hell breaks loose.
    Come on, is this really about cartoons? They’re rampaging and burning flags. They’re looking for Europeans to kidnap. They’re threatening innkeepers and generally raising holy Muslim hell not because of any outrage over a cartoon.
    They’re outraged because it is part of the Islamic jihadist culture to be outraged.
    You don’t really need a reason. You just need an excuse.
    Wandering around, destroying property, murdering children, firing guns into the air and feigning outrage over the slightest perceived insult is to a jihadist what tailgating is to a Steeler’s fan.
    I know and understand that these bloodthirsty murderers do not represent the majority of the world’s Muslims. When, though, do they become outraged? When do they take to the streets to express their outrage at the radicals who are making their religion the object of worldwide hatred and ridicule? Islamic writer Salman Rushdie wrote of these silent Muslims in a New York Times article three years ago. “As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?”
    Indeed. Why not? >>
    http://www.voy.com/178771/129076.html

  28. thank-you for pointing that out so clearly Maz2.
    I am just sitting here shaking my head.
    What is going to happen?
    Where is this leading?
    Where/when will it end?
    If my generation does nothing about it, my children will have every right to yell at me: why didn’t your generation do something?
    And now Kate has pointed out the “throwing gas on the fire” thing.

  29. Our newspapers _do_ print cartoons as offensive as the ones in the Arab world.
    Where have you been the past 20 years?

  30. Quite right, Kate.
    I can remember back in 2003 when the UK Independent sponsored the British Political Cartoon Society’s annual award shindig.
    The winner of the Cartoon of the Year, out of 35 entries, depicts Sharon eating the head of a Palestinian baby while saying “What’s wrong? Have you never seen a politician kissing a baby?”
    Of course, the background depicted burning cities, war-copters, etc.
    The ol’ “jews eating babies” shtick never gets tired, eh Independent?

  32. Hate literature does not fall under the umbrella of free speach, just ask Ernst Zundell. There is no humour in depicting a religious figure with a bomb on his head, the message is clear, the identification of a religious group to hate. After all, draw a Swastika on a synagogue and you have yourself a hate crime. The Jewish community will show similar outrage however I would agree they do it in a peaceful way, but that is only a result of them have more power and control of media. When the West taqkes a stand to protect everyone fron hate literature, only then will the world find itself on the road to peaceful coexistense. And please don’t try to counter this with the misdeeds of the Radical Fundamentalists. You seem bent on all out Religious war by trying to ofend all Muslims. Lets face it Osama is certainly not offended but I would suggest he is delighted. So I would suggest you support terrists if you agree with the notion that these cartoons are simply a matter of freedom of speach.

  33. If you live in a free society, you have to be prepared to be offended once in awhile. Going down the “Hate Law” jihad is always a dangerous proposition.
    Should I be “protected” against the Broadway playwrite depicticting a gay Jesus having anal sex with Judas?
    Besides, the point here is the hypocracy. It’s no good if the West makes harder laws to “protect” against hate when there is no such incling elsewhere in the world.

  34. Freedom of speech’s limits should be measured by the marketplace. If something is to be deemed taboo, the market will decide by boycotting the source. How else do we decide in a democratic and free market country what is allowed, and what isn’t allowed in our media?

  36. Jim, how far are you prepared to go to appease Islamic law? Would like to create a two tiered system of reverence? I mean cartoonists and others hit on Jesus all the time – so you’re basically saying Muhammad is out of bounds cos Muslims might get nasty?
    Sorry – but that’s not the society my grandfather fought for, or my uncle and untold numbers of other heroic defenders of freedom who resisted fascism. Back in the day, prior to WW2 you would probably had an issue with making fun of Odin and Thor in case it offended the Wagner anthusists in the Third Reich.
    I am not of course comparing the Third Reich to mainstream Muslims – because many of these enlightened folk have communicated to me their disgust with the hysteria and hatred paraded by their fellow Islamists. Thank God for the enlightened and cool Muslims in our midst who don’t share your PC apprehensions about publishing such cartoons in a free and democratic society.
    I�m also glad there is some solidarity among European editors and that these cartoons are getting published. Way to go!
    However the decision to fire the editor of Soir for publishing the Muhammad cartoons is a total cop out on the part of this French publisher (I heard a rumor that he actually an Egyptian).
    I am frankly outraged – not by the cartoons which are mild by standards of the Christian crucifix submerged in urine or the virgin Mary rendered in elephant dung (both �art� exhibits that appeared in major galleries) – but by the refusal of these publications to defend free expression. I guarantee you that if scandalous drawings of Christ had been circulating in the media and Soir had managed to get hold of them, they would have been trumpeting them on the front page.
    What kind of double standard is this – that it is okay to attack and ridicule the symbols of Christianity, and even its founder, but Muhammad is given a “special exception licence”? What do we have here – a two-tiered system of religious respect with inviolable Islam at the top?
    The fact that film maker Theo van Gogh was murdered in the street for attempting to address truths about the treatment of Islamic women, and that Salman Rushdie had a Fatwah placed on him for the crime of writing a novel with references to Muhammad … should surely embolden European editors to take a stand on this issues in order to uphold our rights. The message from this surrender is – “threaten and intimidate us enough and we will apologize and comply”.
    Recently Madame Tussaud’s museum in London staged a Christmas display featuring a wax dummy of the soccer star David Beckham as Jesus and his wife Posh Spice as Mary. See what would happen if they had done the same with Muhammad and one of his wives.
    The notion of not being allowed to render Muhammad in image form is laughably archaic. If Muslims regard this as a central pillar of the faith – then let them enforce this law at home, in the mosques and in countries run by neo-Taliban.
    The fuss they are whipping up about this has NOTHING to do with damage to Muhammad’s rep. The actual cartoons are pretty damn tame – so much so they were even published in Jordan. The Danish based mullah who trucked them to the Middle East to stir up rage actually added really bad Muhammad cartoons to the portfolio, cartoons he claims were sent to him by e-mail (without actually coughing up the e-mails as proof of his assertion). He likely added the extremely offensive articles himself just to ensure maximum psychosis.
    Despite Monty Python’s Life of Brian, the planet is still host to millions of devout Christian believers whose vision of Jesus hasn’t even been marginally compromised by the satirical romp.
    No this isn’t about damage to Islam or Muhammad, this is about control. This is about saying to the infidels on their own soil – “you can’t do that, and if you do we will hurt you bad”. This is about politics and culture in the end.
    These capitulations on an issue that is legal and a matter of artistic freedom – are basically saying that there is now a two-tiered level of respect for religion in Europe. On tier one are the icons and sacred personalities of Islam who are out of bounds to satirists, cartoonists and even stand-up comedians. But second tiered Christianity is fair game – open to shots from any direction and any which way – even though there are millions of Christians around the world who equally incensed and “wounded” by such assaults on their faith.
    The editors who pulled these cartoons are cowards and hypocrites. I might understand it if the cartoons were scatological, pornographic or gross in some patently obvious way. But they are well drawn, subtle and quite clever in their execution.
    Recently in England a Muslim worker in Dudley Council succeeded in getting a ban placed on pigs in the office – I mean pig dolls, pig pictures of coffee mugs etc because he claimed they offended Islam.
    It seems the effort to dhimmify the infidel in Europe is well under way.

  37. There ARE moderate Muslims. It’s unfair to say there are none. I am an ESL teacher who has taught scores of Muslims in Canada and many of them I would trust not only with my life, but the life of my child. The people I taught are intellegent and compassionate. I know there’s a lot of issues in Canada about immigration, integration, etc, and we are overwhelmed by everthing including extremists, but let’s not forget this: One of the first true immigrant groups to enter Canada that completely refused to integrate was the Jewish one. I have rarely seen ANY Jewish children in ANY public school ANYWHERE in Canada. So maybe we should stop pointing so many fingers. None of us live in the middle east, but we do live in Canada, and we do know very well that there are private Jewish schools everywhere, so maybe there’s some real problems in the middle east that we don’t know about. If the Jews don’t think we Canadians and our schools are good enough for them, then what’s going on in the middle east and everywhere else in the world? Maybe so many Muslims simply feel really bad about themselves, low self esteem, etc. Who knows?
    And while I’m a little off topic – It really bothers me that we are know letting in so many immigrant groups in Canada who don’t think Canadians are worthy of their children attending our public schools with our Canadian kids. They’re ALL sending their kids to culturally segregated private schools, not just the Jews. Pathetic really.
    http://www.radioislam.org/bush/jewishpower.htm

  38. ooops my last email correct the “know” to “now”
    And while I’m a little off topic – It really bothers me that we are NOW letting in so many immigrant groups in Canada who don’t think Canadians are worthy of their children attending our public schools with our Canadian kids. They’re ALL sending their kids to culturally segregated private schools, not just the Jews. Pathetic really.

  40. This appears as a moment of truth for Western Europe or more specifically Western civilization in Western Europe.
    Are institutions which enjoy the freedom to offend anyone in liberal democracies going to be subjugated to Islamic fundamentalism?
    Is blind tolerance for the utterly intolerant going to ensure the ultimate demise of remaining liberty?
    Does Europe have the stomach to stand up for free speech or is it too late?
    Where are the “moderate” Muslims to deny Borg-like designs on infidels given future favourable demographics or is resistance futile?
    Peace in our time?

  41. Aidan
    I am not appeasing anyone. These Cartoons were first published in Sept 05, they were condemned as being offensive. The republishing of the Cartoons after understanding they are offensive to Muslims can then only be considered to be an attempt to insite hatred. Thats it. If you can show me a case of a Jewish or Christian cartoon circulating that depicts Jesus with a bomb on his head I would be equally against that. But simply stating that there are Muslims out there that would be willing to do that is not a arguement. Why is it OK to demonize a religious group.

  42. DDD,
    Just thought I should let you know, not all Jews go to Jewish schools.
    I grew up in Regina in the 60s. There were about 100 Jewish families there then (probably about the same number now). We all went to public schools. and we said The Lord’s Prayer, no problem. Catholics had their own schools and they still do. I live in Toronto now and my kids have gone to public schools. Some people of faith do not like the secular values promoted in public schools so they choose private faith-based schools.
    Just wondering, how exactly did Jews refuse to integrate into Canadian society?

  43. Ex-liberal
    Go to this site:
    http://www.kosherdelight.com/CanadaJewishSchools.htm
    I count at least 17 Jewish schools in Metro Toronto alone, add in all their clubs, etc…..that’s not integration if you ask me. It’s complete segregation. What community did you live in? For the most part, in any community where there are sufficient numbers of a cultural group that is not Christian they pretty much have segregated themselves from Canadian society. The Jews are no exception; they do this all over the world, and are probably the most segregated cultural group. I have travelled ALL OVER THE PLANET, and I see the same thing everywhere I go. So if you are Jewish, don’t throw so many stones because you are pretty segregationist AND elitist yourselves, and if you are not Jewish like me, then I think we all have to start looking for positive solutions to a frightening problem that we are being caught in the middle of.
    I deplore the whole extremist thing like everyone. I resent the fact that North America and Europe are becoming the battle ground for ancient cultures who hate eachother. I am saddened at the terrible images of the Muslim protesters in London, city and country of my ancesters, which used to be so vibrant, but is now dangerous. But that having been said, we so called people of ‘christian’ societies are inflaming the situation with our rhetoric. I don’t have a solution, but the rhetoric is just so very nasty.
    The reaction of the Muslim community is definitely scary. I’m not arguing about that.

  44. manorrd, “Should I be “protected” against the Broadway playwrite depicticting a gay Jesus having anal sex with Judas?”
    Anyone attempting such a play would get shut down by massive protests. Just take a look at what happened to Last Temptation of Christ. That was a pro-christian movie that got nuked over its nuances.
    Aidan, “Recently Madame Tussaud’s museum in London staged a Christmas display featuring a wax dummy of the soccer star David Beckham as Jesus and his wife Posh Spice as Mary”
    It helps that the UK is probably the least christian of western countries and the satirical pisstake is something of a hallowed pastime.
    You wouldn’t see it happening in UTAH.

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