In a fascinating new column, George Jonas, provides a recent history of examples of socialism & communism in Europe. He ponders what the actual difference is between these two groups. Not much, it seems, other than that socialists offer a short window of opportunity for citizens to voluntarily comply with the same imposed measures.
Some say Europe is in trouble because the poor want to live as well as the rich. Close, but no cigar. If Europe’s in trouble, it isn’t because the poor want to live as well as the rich, but because some do. They live as well as the rich without having bothered to become rich first.
A bad idea is for poor people to live as well as the rich while they’re still poor. Even living half as well is a bad idea unless they are, in fact, half as rich. It’s bad because it can’t be done. At least, it can be done only until somebody presents the bill, which is currently happening in Europe.
George makes it really easy to connect the whining of the socialists in Hungary with the rhetoric over the faux scandals in Canada.
The difference between communism and socialism is just a matter of degrees. USSR is an acronym for United Soviet Socialist Republics.
As my favourite sci-fi writer wrote, “there is no such thing as a free lunch”. For one person to receive a free lunch someone else has to pay for it and receive nothing in return.
On the topic of socialism. CBC.Ca headline this AM.
“2011 a year of frustration for Air Canada, workers”
Comments not allowed.
And I’ll bet it is frustrating to watch West Jet fly away, and you’re left holding a 2×2 with a sign on the end that says, “Poor Me.”
What’s the Difference Between Socialists and Communists?
Nothing other than speed of implementation is the short answer. Communists are socialists in a hurry and the end result is the same.
I agree that the difference is a matter of degree and that communists try to impose their agenda immediately by force. That difference is becoming less and less however, for once the socialists feel secure and strong enough they also resort to the use of force. The force comes in many shapes and forms from gun control, rejecting private property rights, trampling on individual rights and freedoms to the HRCs and imposed political correctness. The latest attempt is the fabricated scandal of robocalls in order to overthrow a duly elected government.
OR, what’s the Difference Between Socialists… Communists and environmentalists ?
NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL !!!!!!!
It’s time to call a spade, a spade:
“Progressivism” is a religion, it elevates the state to deity.
As has been said, socialists are just more patient than the commies. They are all progressing towards the same goal.
For me this clearly explains the jihad-like passion the leftys feel for their cause.
The double standard the lefties here and abroad apply to what they lable “civility” is proof enough.
20th century Fascism and Communism only differed with the individuals who lead them…..both were undemocratic, totalitarian statist, socialist, crony capitalist, and anti-semetic.
“The goal of socialism is communism.”
~Vladimir Lenin
George Jonas ponders the actual difference between these two groups?
Well ponder no longer, George.
The only difference I’ve ever noted between socialists and communists is the speed they get to the shooting people part. Commies start there, socialists have to kind of nerve themselves up to it. But they still get there, eventually.
Other than that both are centrally planned coercive states that won’t face economic reality.
Fascists of course are Commies who can count. The central planning, coercion and shooting people stays the same, they just do the economics a bit better.
There’s a story about, I can’t recall if it was the communists who wanted to infiltrate the fascists or vice versa, but the infiltrator wound up joining the party he was sent to infiltrate.
The only difference between the Communists and the Fascists is the cut of their uniform and the fairytales they tell their rank and file members. The urge to control every aspect of society is the same.
Whenever someone talks about “third way”, or about monetary or fiscal policy, that person is advocating fascist techniques. To paraphrase Nixon, “We’re all fascists now.” Let’s hope our method takes after Mussolini, who as Libertarian Party founder Karl Hess said, “a relatively benign presence” (ignoring castor oil poisoning).
As an aside, during the 70’s in Europe it was said about the nascent environmental movement, that “The Green Tree has Red Roots.” Again, that urge to control “for your own good” because you’re too stupid otherwise.
Yes, socialism, fascism and communism are all very similar; they are all, collectivist, anti-individual, anti-free enterprise, top-down authoritarian statism.
Communism self-defines itself as a ‘natural’ process, ie, it’s the final, natural, inevitable stage of human societal evolution. Of course, you have to believe that there IS such a thing as ‘social evolution’; and that there IS such a thing as some inherent natural social path.
Socialism is more devious. It doesn’t ask you to believe, intellectually, in the Natural Science of Human Evolution, which leads inevitably to communism.
Socialism is emotional; it’s all about feelings; it’s viewed by those who support it as a Sign of Compassion.
Socialism tells you that ‘many people are Have-Nots, and IF you are a genuine, caring, loving human being, THEN, you will ensure that they become Haves.
Note the mindset. The opposite of poverty is assumed to mean: ‘to have’ goods and services, and the method of having is via the govt giving it all to you. This shows that you, who verbally advocate this, are a compassionate person.
Note again – the ‘compassion’ shown by the Socialist Rhetoric is only verbal. For those in academia, in the public service – who are the major supporters of socialism – this rhetoric does NOT include their giving up their high salaries and wage increases that are often double and triple that of the private sector. It does not include giving up the benefits and pensions.
We’ve all seen the public unions – the powerful Teachers Unions, the govt services etc shrieking with rage if there is any suggestion that they might, just might, have to contribute to their own pensions, or reduce their wage increase demands, or not count their unused sick days as income or..
So, socialism operates by self-defining a belief in it as a sign of your ‘humanity’, your ‘compassion’. Now – where does the money come to give to the Have-Nots? Hmm. It can’t come from these verbose advocates, secure in their academic and public service jobs. Hmm. They tell us, that it must come from The Greedy Wealthy.
This is an amorphous set of people, vague and unnamed (how many Koch Brothers are there; has Warren Buffet actually handed over millions to the govt?). They are assumed to be greedy because they are wealthy; that is, if you are Wealthy, it doesn’t mean that you worked hard. No. It means that you are greedy. And lack compassion. And have no humanity.
So, the ‘compassionate set’, the socialists, insist that the govt tax these Evil People to give to the Have-Nots. BUT – they ignore that, as pointed out, eventually, you run out of Evil People. And, since you’ve prevented the economy from Investment and Production – it’s a dead end.
So- as has Europe and the US – you move into borrowing to provide ‘stuff’ to the population. Disastrous.
Socialism is really an ego trip for the left.
the Difference Between Socialists… Communists, SPELLING!!!
ET, you were the one who educated me in the fact that both communism and socialism are actually 2-tier systems, albeit with a small tier of elites on top.
With that said, it would be interesting to determine what percentage of the population in Canada, the U.S., and Europe currently makes its money in the public sector. Most of these folks depend upon a certain amount of intrusion into the lives of average citizens by said public sector. So perhaps that upper layer is a bit thicker than you earlier imagined?
Robert- We recently went on a cruise. Our 4 other table guests were all Canadian. I asked what everyone did for a living.
Police constable
Hospital healthcare workers (2)
School teacher
Federal government employee
Home maker.
They only one not on the government teat was the stay-at-home mom.
If this is representative of Canada, we are all well and truly screwed.
“Vitriolic correspondence inundated cyberspace as professional and amateur calumniators vied with one another in an attempt to nullify the first election that didn’t go the Hungarian Left’s way in the 21st century”
As Robins111 said. Socialists/communists use the same tactics all over the world,and the sad part is they often work.
Robert W, Many public servants are overpaid especially in terms of their benefit to society. Though they might be upper class financially, most of them are not in the ruling class. They exist as pawns on the chessboard of the “elite” ruling class.
The public sector has certainly increased its ratio over the years in Canada.
In total, it’s 10% of the population. [data from statistics Canada]. 3,633,447. This does NOT include pre-college teachers – and we could add another million in that area. Add in other public services -and…
So, I’d say that the public sector is possibly between 12 and even 15% of the population. Quite a large ratio for the private sector, the middle class, to support.
The problem arises when the private sector must support, not only this Elite Sector and its non-normative salaries benefits and pensions, but also the increasing Entitlements of the general population. That’s economically untenable.
Frick & Frack, Butter & Fat, Spit & Spat!
ET: “That’s economically untenable.”
It’s also unchangeable. Adding in the dependents of the public sector as well as those depending on various government programs, it becomes a majority of Canadians who oppose smaller government.
Only those people who do not depend on the government financially should be allowed to vote. For the others it’s a conflict of intetest and they should be required to abstain.
“Only those people who do not depend on the government financially should be allowed to vote” – WalterF
If there were any justice…..
Two things that grow uncontrolably with zero regard for how it’s existence will ultimately effect the body as a whole:
government, cancer
I have a very good friend who works in Sustainable Resources and Development in AB.Asked what her job was after the Slave Lake fire.She sent in the water bombers to save what they could.I asked her,maybe you wouldn’t need all those H2O bombers if the gubermint had not kissed the eco-nuts butts,and NOT made it illegal for land owners to clear out the deadfall/under brush on their land(which are great fire traps). Blank look.
All gubermint/bureaucracy we have now is trying to clean up the mess socialists/leftards have created,because socialists/leftards do not have the balls to admit they screwed up. Our country(well,my great grand-kids)is truly farked.
Ralph @ 2:14pm:
It’s only representative of those who can afford (time/vacation days and $) to go on cruises.
Hey Ralph,
Did they thank you and the stay at home mom for financing there little trip?
“What’s the Difference Between Socialists and Communists?”
Socialists want everything to be sold by the government and Communists want everything to be bought by government.
Excellent link, Robert W. Thanks. George Jonas KNOWS.
BUT, you said:
ET, you were the one who educated me in the fact that both communism and socialism are actually 2-tier systems
REALLY!? You thought it was one tier and only learned about 2 tiers from ET!! You really thought it was one tier — a homogenous lumpen proletariat tier? Or did you think it was 3 tiers before?
I can remember in my teens people explaining how communism works; about the expensive villas owned by the communist aparatchiks.
I also remember with relish what a fellow college frosh told me his father (a CBC man!) had told him: “Deep in the heart of every socialist is a hidden desire to own a Mercedes Benz”!
Can I have been that precocious?
The difference between Socialists, Communists, Fascists and Nazis?
Same thugs, different gang colors.
FREE @ 1:29
Perfect!
For one person to receive a free lunch someone else has to pay for it and receive nothing in return.
Did you get that, welfare bum komrade kulak?
Socialists are liberals who have political power.
Communists are socialists who have military power.
Progressives are liberals who don’t want to be identified as either aspiring socialists or aspiring communists.
New Democrats are liberals pretending to be more conservative than they realty are so they can win elections.
Socialists are liberals who have political power.
Communists are socialists who have military power.
Progressives are liberals who don’t want to be identified as either aspiring socialists or aspiring communists.
New Democrats are liberals pretending to be more conservative than they realty are so they can win elections.
The following was my favorite from the articles comment section:
… 17th century. Locke defined the right of private property. Essentially, that individuals had a right to consider their earnings and property as their own.
… 18th century. Smith elaborated the role of government on this principle- essentially adopted by the US in 1776.
… 19th century. Marx opposed these values, proposing the collectivist model. Renaming the “system of natural rights” as “capitalism”. He freely interchanged the label socialism and communism- both equally violating the principles of liberty and individual rights.
The line, “system of natural rights” ties directly to the Declaration of Independence and the current administrations current subversion of the line: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Socialism is Communism on POT!
Socialism is Liberalism in a hurry. Communism is Socialism in a hurry. The goal of all three are the same. I believe it was G.H. Bush who termed the phrase ‘Culture of Death’ describing the three ‘isms’ and he was correct.
Communism = Socialism + Electricity
Also from George Jonas who says it comes from Lenin. Sorry, no link, as I read it in the Post but can’t remember when (sometime in the last month).