The BC Teachers Federation (BCTF) has been dead set against keeping the HST in British Columbia. Not just a little, but a lot! That’s fine and it’s most certainly their privilege to advocate against it. Now that their wishes have been granted they, like the rest of the citizens in B.C., must accept the consequences.
With a whole lot less money now to be entering government coffers, the teachers union clearly must have understood that a whole lot less money would be available to pay out to their members.
Much like parents, a key role of teachers is to educate children that, along with privileges, comes responsibilities. Accepting the former but ignoring the latter would be highly unprofessional & hypocritical. But we’ve never seen any examples of that amongst Far Left Ideologues & Zealots, have we?!
To the members of the BCTF, let me quote directly from Jack Layton’s final letter to Canadians:
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic.
We look forward to such positive sentiments from you all in the coming months & years. For we know that you each of you will share equally in the extra financial burdens that will be imposed on us all now that extra revenue from the HST is no longer available. Equality and Fairness, My Union Brothers & Sisters! Your mantra is now my mantra. Let’s all sing together now!
Heh.
It reminds me of public unions’ hostility towards free enterprize, seemingly oblivious to where their salaries ultimately come from.
Charles Lamb said it first.
Jack Layton (1950-2011) wrote:
“Hope is better than fear.”
Charles Lamb (1775-1834) wrote:
“Hope is charming, lively, blue-eyed wench, & I am always glad of her company, but could dispense with the visitor she brings with her, her younger sister, fear, a white liver’d-lilly-cheeked, bashful palpitating, awkward hussey that hangs like a green girl at her sister’s apron strings & will go with her whithersoever she goes.”
(Letters of Charles and Mary Anne Lamb)
The BCTF is a giant self inflicted wound that is about to go septic.
Couldn’t happen to a skankier bunch.
BC . . . the northern Wisconsin.
Bring it on.
If the BC PST is anything like the PST in Saskatchewan, not only does the reversal of the HST take money out of the Provincial government’s coffers, it directly affects the School Boards in that the School Board will pay the PST on their goods and services and will not be able to get a rebate for it.
In essence, the School Boards will have higher costs and less money to pay the bills. Good job BCTF
According to the Fraser Institute, the HST in BC was designed to be revenue neutral.
http://tinyurl.com/3r7tqv8
B.C. has been held captive by Unions for a long time,used to be the powerful labour Unions,now it’s the Public Sector Unions.
This Fall, the BCTF is going after the usual, a raise and increased benefits,and we simply can’t afford them.
Logging is a shadow of the industry it was when I moved here,mining not a lot better. The Liberals have pissed away billions on alternative power project subsidies,and we still have a moratorium on offshore drilling.
Now we owe the Federal government 1.6 billion to offset the rejected HST,and we’re still stuck with a carbon tax.
Construction business here in the Okanagan is slow,and the Coast isn’t much better.
And we’re led by a busty female messiah. It’s looking pretty grim here,and now the BCTF figures they have the right to extort more money from us.The timing is not good,but try to tell that to a fat cat from the BCTF who hasn’t missed a paycheque in his entire life.
It will be interesting to see if Clark caves in to them,she’s desperate for votes.
When you have teachers’ unions, you have hyperactive advocacy groups accountable to no one and very little- if any- regard for the students they serve. How would this anti-HST campaign have gone had teachers’ unions just not existed? Imagine teachers having no spare time for political game playing if they were too busy planning lessons.
Calvin: how could it be revenue neutral when the combined rate equalled the sum of the two separate rates (please correct me if I am wrong) that taxes a different basket of goods and services? Had the BC govt brought a HST that had a lower rate it would not have been seen for the blatant tax grab it was. All in all it was a terribly managed process and the govt deserved to get smacked down for it.
It was supposed to be revenue neutral, but it wasn’t. In addition, Christy Clark tried to bribe voters by promising to cut the HST by 2% in the future, which would have cut tax revenue by a substantial amount…so all this talk about a loss of taxes is nonsense. It’s just part of the propaganda being used to justify any future cuts the government may wish to implement.
BTW, I found it extremely amusing when right wingers and corporations supported a tax increase(as they did with the HST), claiming it would help the economy. It’s fortunate that the majority of voters saw through this hypocrisy, understanding that the HST was primariy about shifting more of the tax burden onto consumers.
I don’t think that the BCTF was the only organization that opposed the HST. Why pick on them rather than the building industry, or the restuarant industry or the realty industry, who were just as opposed, and I understand, just as organized.
hey Robert , how are those charges coming in the looting of vancouver ?
is there anything right with that province?
Difficult for the BCTF not to come out swinging against the HST when its bed partner, the NDP, oppose it for reasons of political expediency.
To paraphrase Winston Churchill:
Consumption taxes are the worst form of taxation,
except for all the other forms of taxation.
He should have also said:
Fair taxation at low rates raises the most revenue but
negates one of the most powerful tools to sway the
ignorant in a leftist politician’s bag of class envy tricks .
.
Ah let em all rot!!!
@rabbit
The same way everyone else gets their salaries from? Reward for providing a service to the public? It’s not like the public sector isn’t taxed, also. In fact the more of the economy is under the public sector(and it’s a significant amount) the more tax dollars comes from them.
And it’s not the case that this is a shell game IFF people in the public sector actually provide valuable service. I know the public sector inputs to the company I own certainly do.
I said it in the other thread and I’ll say it again here. Putting the kai-bosh on the HST has the following ill consequences for BC:
1. BC’ers just self-imposed a collective bill for $1.6 billion, payable to the Feds.
2. BC companies now need to revert to a two tax system, each taxing a different basket of goods, from a simpler one tax system.
3. The province now must re-establish the PST bureaucracy.
Sorry, I don’t care what anybody says. Killing the HST is the height of stupidity. But, this is BC after all, the province that voted in the NDP not once, but twice IN A ROW during the 90s.
I’ll say it again.
There is no such thing as “revenue neutral” tax reform. Such a phenomenon does not exist in the known universe.
Remember the implementation of the GST. That was supposed to be revenue neutral. And prices were to decline due to the ending of the manufacturers sales tax (MST). While admittedly the MST was a bad tax, is there a single person in Canada who believes that prices declined one iota with the ending of the MST? And let’s be clear that the advantage of the HST to the business community (input tax credits for what was the PST) would also not result in reduced prices.
Spot on Gord Tulk. If they had a clue they would have introduced the HST with a lower combined rate to partially offset the application of PST to previously exempt goods and services. And you are absolutely right that the gubment deserved the smack down!
If they had a clue they would have introduced the HST with a lower combined rate…
Posted by: Me No Dhimmi at August 28, 2011 9:56 PM
Quite right. I made this very observation in the days following the HST’s announcement a couple of years back. A simple 10% rate would have been a nice, easy tax. Keeping it at 12% was just dumb.
I think the BC Liberals will wait a while then campaign on the HST. The vote only went against it by 55 to 43, which is better than they normally do against the NDP and other opponents.
And part of the protest vote was just a raw reaction to Gordon Campbell’s flip flop. If Christy Clark plays this right, she can bring the HST back legitimately and strand the NDP in no-man’s land along with the BCTF and the dentist’s best friend, Bill van der Zalm. That will be sweet (for me) because, well, it’s the NDP, the teachers and Van der Zalm.
You’re wrong Colin in BC.
The alleged benefits of streamlined administration are hugely offset by the increase in the level of taxation in the economy.
A general increase in the level of taxation hurts everybody including business.
As the great Murray Rothbard explained: all this talk about the type and methodology of taxation is futile. What counts is the LEVEL of taxation not the methods.
Colin: be clear. The HST would have massively increased taxes. Are you really in favour of more taxes to Leviathan?
BTW, I found it extremely amusing when right wingers and corporations supported a tax increase(as they did with the HST), claiming it would help the economy. It’s fortunate that the majority of voters saw through this hypocrisy, understanding that the HST was primariy about shifting more of the tax burden onto consumers.
Posted by: lberia at August 28, 2011 9:14 PM
Yup, never could figure that out. Saw the same thing tonight on the news. Stupid buggers in the business world moaning that their admin. costs were going to rise again.
Too damn dumb and shortsighted to think about what effect $1100 less disposable income per family of consumers would have on their business profits.
Gord Tulk:
Iy may well be revenue neutral in total in so far as various companies along the supply chain would no longer have to pay provincial sales tax. Companies can deduct the HST they pay on inputs; not so with the PST which is treated as a cost. I expect there will be a shift of the total proportion of taxes towards individuals as they eventually have to pay the HST. I have read from various sources (business press) that the cost of goods and services eventually declined somewhat in the maritime provinces that adopted the HST as cost savings were passed on to customers – mainly due to competition.
While I don’t like to see my taxes rise (in Ontario), every economist I have seen discuss the HST has been in favour of it.
My son-in-law runs a business in Ontario. He prefers the HST because it is much simpler in administration. Most businessmen I know feel the same way.
I have not noticed much increase in taxes in Ontario. I think the fear is exaggerated.
In my small business. I did pass on the 7% savings of the PST. Not only that amount, but by using my same mark up value, the savings were even higher. Now the cost of my materials has just jumped a whopping 7% and so this cost will be passed on, again.
Bad managing of bringing it in, but c’mon people, the ZALM was against it, so right away you had to know that it was actually good for most people. How quickly we forget about brown paper bags and such things….
My son-in-law runs a business in Ontario. He prefers the HST because it is much simpler in administration. Most businessmen I know feel the same way.
I have not noticed much increase in taxes in Ontario. I think the fear is exaggerated.
Posted by: Kroket at August 28, 2011 10:27 PM
You can really pick out the people with the indexed salaries and pensions: I “think” the fear is exagerated.
Come on down here and try to convince the fellow working in the local sawmill.
Any unions are in it for themselves NOT the general public……………the sooner we all figure that out the better for all concerned…..give the teacher 0% for the next 2 years to start with and take it from there…after that we will re-evaluate and if another 0% year is needed, so be it
let’s have a VOTE on that
Thank you………
And we’re led by a busty female messiah.
Aw ‘cmon, she’s a lot prettier than the previous premiers. It’s nice to have a government figurehead that would actually look good on the front of a schooner.
Her job is to be a distraction to focus your attention on ‘the leader’, and she does her job admirably well. She’s keeping attention away from those who are actually running the show behind the scenes. The distraction obviously works on most of you.
I can’t believe that there are people advocating for any kind of a tax. Taxes penalize prosperity. Period. I have a better idea. Cut government spending by 60%. Start by cutting the number of politicos by 70% at all levels of government That would be a good start. Then shut up and suck it up. Good and bad.
The vote wasn’t about whether the HST was a “good” or “bad” tax – even assuming “good tax” is a phrase with meaning. The vote was a chance to tell overweening government that they can’t always ride roughshod over the electorate. Premier Flakehead Campbell first introduced his Carbon Tax, then out of left field arrogantly inflicts the HST like some feudal overlord.
The vote was just a “get stuffed buddy” moment, regardless of the advertised cost of rejecting the HST. My advice to Premier High-School Cheerleader and her fellow socialists is “hey Champ, if your revenues are going down, how about cutting government expenditures by the same amount?” If that means reducing theft from taxpayers by unionized teachers, well that’s a bonus.
Shrink government; live free.
Jamie and Iberia,
Allow me to explain why the HST would mean a lower cost for every consumer, assuming you are willing to think it through.
When you raise a business’ admin cost, two things happen. Firstly, you raise their costs and secondly, you restrict competitors. Both of which raise the business’ costs and therefore prices to you. If you raise the business cost by $1100, they will end up charging around $1200 (the tax they pay plus admin cost plus extra profit due to less competition).
Therefore, the lowest cost place to tax (and I would also argue the most moral method) is on the end consumer. That is why the HST is best.
Rick at August 28, 2011 11:02 PM
God! That was so easy!
So when is the money back in my wallet? Tomorrow morning or the day after?
“And we’re led by a busty female messiah”
HEY, what have you got against “busty”?
Jamie, I did say IF you are willing to think it through.
The public sector creates NO wealth or jobs or anything else. Its is the private sector that does than. Certainly there is a need for the public sector IF it was cut down by 80%
“My son-in-law runs a business in Ontario. He prefers the HST because it is much simpler in administration. Most businessmen I know feel the same way.
I have not noticed much increase in taxes in Ontario. I think the fear is exaggerated.”
I run a business in B.C. and I can tell you the reduction in paperwork is a red herring. Certainly there is some reduction in preparing two remmitances but it is minimal. And the savings to a business are not significant enough to warrant price reductions. Fortis B.C. (natural gas distributors) had an article in the paper praising the HST. They said they had over a million customers and saved 2-3 million dollars a year due to the HST WHICH THEY SAID THEY WERE PASSING ON TO THEIR CUSTOMERS. That sounds nice but it works out to 2-3 dollars per customer PER YEAR or 25 cents on a monthly bill. That is less than the additional HST on one decent restaurant meal.
The HST was all about businesses making MORE profit. As a business owner I have nothing against profit but to simply grab it out of consumers pockets with no value in return is quite simply stealing. No wonder the govt like it-they understand all about stealing.
BTW, I found it extremely amusing when right wingers and corporations supported a tax increase(as they did with the HST), claiming it would help the economy.
Posted by: lberia at August 28, 2011 9:14 PM
——————————
What’s the number one industry in BC? Forest industry, and it’s hurting bad for the last 4 years. With HST they no longer had to pay 7% sales tax, making them more competitive in an international market. It makes little difference in good times, but in tough times like now that can be the difference between make or break.
For example, my employer needs to replace his fleet of trucks. He hasn’t replaced any of them since ’06 because of the downturn. Now the price goes up by $14,000 per truck, almost $200,000 total plus 7% added on to all supplies and materials. The contractors he hauls for face similar increases in costs as do the forest companies that hire them. Forest companies do not set the price of their products, that’s a function of the commodities market, so they can’t pass the costs on to the customer. Suddenly the jobs of thousands are less secure in a shaky economy. They’ll have to cut costs and you can bet that wages will be one of the first to be cut. Shut-downs are also very likely, resulting in a lot less revenue for the provincial government
Better to be working and paying HST than unemployed and paying PST with a government wondering where the money will come from to pay teacher salaries and health care costs.
There was lots of emotion and little reason involved in dumping the HST.
I said it in the other thread, good pickup Robert.
Without the HST, the greedy unions are screwed. They worked against the very thing that would have paved the way for an undeserved, but somewhat decent (for them) contract.
Now all bets are off, and I hope we see a war with the BCTF, its long overdue. The last dispute was a warmup for the big battle to come. This time around, my daughter is graduated, and my son will be ok hanging out until the teachers are busted, so I don’t care how long it takes to break them. The BCTF has ruined the public education system in BC. Professionals? Hilarious.
As Steve Smith said above, bring on the government cuts they are long overdue. Its time the whiny public as a whole realized that government is not a bottomless pit of entitlements and ‘free’ programs.
This is why I’m glad the HST is dead. Governments have a terrible habit of spending more than what they get coming in. The loss of the HST windfall will keep any governments, especially a dogmatic NDP socialist government, at bay.
” IF you are willing to think it through.”
Rick at August 28, 2011 11:34 PM
I read that somewhere else. A line from Crime and Punishment perhaps, or maybe from the memoires of Everett Alvarez.
It’s consumers of goods and services that create wealth.
Slashing government along with it’s instrinsicly unsaitable appetite for regulations is the ideal solution from both an ethical and economic point of view.
There is not a “progressive” government in the world which would introduce a tax which did not net them more revenue. The HST is a prime example.
The HST is basically a consumption tax, but everyone knows that going in.
The biggest problem that the BC Liberals have is that they lacked the intestinal fortitude to tell the BC electorate the truth up front and sold the tax after they explicitly said they were “not” going to introduce it.
I find it curious that the NDP and the BCTF were so willing to kill a tax which would have netted them huge revenue increases. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face! But, what the BCTF does on a regular basis is nothing short of curious and down right flabbergasting whenever their windbags approach a microphone. This was a circling of the wagons for the NDP, nothing but an election ploy; the goose-stepping has now begun in earnest.
These new negotiations with the government will be a circus in the coming weeks…popcorn with lots of butter and a nice six-pack should do just fine.
I am looking forward to Vander Zalm’s next referendum initiative: repealing the property transfer tax which he brought in when he was premier. As a consumption tax it rates right up there with the HST. When do you figure he’ll get started?
And maybe we could have a vote on paying income tax at the same time…?
To quote a letter in the local newspaper – “The stupids won!”
The people who voted against the HST were had. The only thing left for me is to cry into my (now more expensive) beer.
my head hurt’s, I still don’t know if the hst would have been good or bad.
T.C., you sound like the power elite (Sheila Copps, the big unions, etc.) who were REALLY sure that Canada would fall apart if the Charlottetown Accord referendum didn’t pass.
Not to worry, little camper. Life will go on:-)
All of you are illiterate morons (as is 99% of BC’s population), mentally unfit even to Google “HST BC wiki”.
Unlike GST and HST, which are value added taxes, PST is SALES tax, and it is CASCADING tax. It hugely distort the economy, and makes many businesses, especially high-added value businesses like high-tech and manufacturing uncompetitive.
All of you are illiterate morons (as is 99% of BC’s population), mentally unfit even to Google “HST BC wiki”.
Posted by: AL at August 29, 2011 4:24 AM
I liked it better back in BC (before computers). Guys like AL locked themselves in bedrooms with Playboys instead of anonymously playing tough guy on the net.
… all the economists are in favour of the HST…
– John.
Most of the economists are government economists.
Banks are government entitities.
Bank economists are government economists.
Universities are government entities.
Academic economists are government economists.
The great economist Ludwig von Mises who wrote brilliantly and indefatigably against government intervention of every kind, never got a university post.
These government economists are obsessed with the technical aspects of the HST.
The issue isn’t the technical superiority of the streamlined HST; it’s the size of governmeent and the hammer-lock that value-added taxes have on state expansion.
The HST without commensurate income tax reductions is not revenue neutral. It is a tax grab of strickly service components, such as a hair cut. The barber does not purchse inputs of sufficient value to reduce costs. However a company that uses hi-teck manufacturing equipment, pays the PST but not HST on competitive equipment. In addition if he is manufaturing a product with various purchased components each component attracts PST but not HST. Ergo he is more competitive and can lower prices. In ONt. the first bracket of income tax was lowered with intro of the HST. Not so B.C. and now repay $1.6 billion with less revenue, and many companies now less competitve.
The Clark Government should run with it as a “No New Taxes” mandate and cut government down to size.
My Union sent me an email hailing the victory and calling it a mandate to “Tax the (Rich)”
But Christy Clark isn’t any brighter than that other Clark we had in the past.
I am certain they are happy to be rid of me, but this is an example of why I moved my business to Alberta 13 years ago.
The voters had elected two dismally inept and corrupt NDP governments, and the attitude of entitlement by so many people was the catalyst that made me move.
This decision was spearheaded by no other than Bill Vander Zalm, fer chrissakes, the same guy they pilloried and ran out of office on a rail in the eighties and nineties.
Next, they will elect an NPD government, and BC will be back to have-not status in 5 years.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.