I received these charts by “Rod B.” via email – It just makes me wonder why CBC and CTV (Mr Craig Oliver) keep referring to the “Western Conservatives”, or the “Alberta Conservatives” … and in their next breath say that Harper is the one causing division in this country?
Why? For the same reason they’re studiously ignoring their own polling results indicating the Liberals have been hit hard by the coalition scheme – the facts don’t fit the narrative.
Maybe rae can now give lizzard May his seat in parlament and go run the greens:-))))
No, we’re not in normal times, bsneath. What PMSH did was put parties not pulling their financial weight on notice–as of NOW–that the Canadian taxpayer was no longer going to finance their partisan politics, WITH HIS OWN PARTY TAKING THE HARDEST HIT.
The NDP, LPC, and BQ are not “his enemies.” In fact, they are the enemies of all Canadian taxpayers who did not–and never intended to–vote for their particular party. In these not normal times, PMSH was suggesting fiscal restraint and giving the long-beleaguered Canadian taxpayer a bit of a break.
Why does it always have to be about the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc and not about the Canadian taxpayers?
Is it not fiscally prudent to begin to clean house in fiscally challenging times, beginning in one’s OWN house, the HOC? I’m one Canadian taxpayer who is mad as Hell that my tax dollars are financing, for instance, the Bloc Quebecois to the tune of 86% of their funding when I will never be given the opportunity to vote for them or demand accountability from them.
What gives with THAT?
from CBCpravda,
http://www.cbc.ca/news/quebecvotes2008/story/2008/12/09/qv-postelection1209.html
good. AMF
The Globe and Mail is blaming Mr. Harper for alienating Quebec by using the term separatist in place of sovereigntist.
Now it seems to me that the coalition’s move was a preemptive strike aimed at taking over the government. However, the timing was most ideally suited to affect the Quebec election and succeeded in making the Bloc Quebecois look much more powerful in Ottawa. This would give a big shot in the arm to the provincial election hopes of Quebec separatists.
So the NDP and the Liberals got Bloc support for the coalition in exchange for a pre-election boost for the Parti Quebecois turning a substantial victory into a squeeker for Mr. Charest.
HAHA, they’re all talking about how Harper was “bullying” Mansbridge…YESSSSSSSS!!! 🙂
Bsneath,
I believe that you perhaps are reading or watching the propaganda rags.
Their has been NO budget presented so it could not be a callous act or fictionally balanced.
The “punitive measures” you so incorrectly surmise was supported by over 60% of the population. Most Canadians were not aware that they subsidised sovereignists or politcal parties.
Maybe this has already been mentioned – didn’t read all the posts – but New Brunswicks votes – Con 14,000+ doesn’t make sense ie 6 seats vs Libs 3 seats (with 100,000 + votes)
earl the pearl – in order to be a sovereign nation, you must be separate from other nations. Otherwise, you aren’t sovereign over your own territory, or your own economy, or your own decisions about anything.
It is the Quebecois who are trying to tell us that ‘Being Sovereign’ doesn’t mean ‘Being Separate’. Heh. Tell that to any decent political analyst.
As for any ‘bump’ for the PQ for this, I doubt if that’s the case. Remember, most Quebecers don’t want to actually separate; they just want the illusion of separation and the dress-up of sovereignty. They certainly don’t want to be in charge of their public debt.
The Liberal Agenda now, among other tactics, is going to be to go after the vote in Quebec. They’ll do this by painting Quebec as ‘sovereign’, as ‘special’, etc. However, the Bloc will fight them over this territorial infringement.
bsneath – Harper hasn’t presented his budget; that doesn’t come until January. As for your perception of his ‘callous’ fiscal update, it was, in my view, geared to smoke out the Coalition Hidden Agenda. The Coalition of the NDP, Liberals and Bloc, was planned MONTHS before this time; they planned to spring it on parliament on budget day in January, and stage a surprise coup and demand to be given the government. Without an election. Without the possibility of an election for almost two years.
I think that the Coalition’s Hidden Agenda was pure callousness; indeed, it was an outrageous attack on our democracy.
Punitive measures? To stop the taxpayer funding of ALL political parties – including the Conservative party? Do you not realize that the Bloc gets 86% of its funding from Canadian taxpayers – who have NO VOICE in electing any Bloc MPs? Ever heard of: No Taxation Withut Representation?
Rubbish; The US isn’t on the verge of economic collapse. Kindly stop with the apocalpytic scenarios. We’ve just cooled off the last one, which was the global AGW apocalypse. Now, the Emotionalists are into the next one. Gets rather tiresome, this Chasing After Apocalpyses.
We certainly are in extraordinary fiscal and economic times, a ‘tectonic shift’ as the global infrastructure shifts to accomodate the emergence of more players in the global economy, namely, the emerging middle classes of China and India. And Brazil and some of the ME. That’s what’s happening, and the economy will shift, and recover. Calm down. I suggest you read ‘When Markets Collide – by El-Erian. Won an award for best financial book of the year.
“Craig Oliver is legally blind.
That being said not being able to see still doesn’t explain not having a brain.
Posted by: The Glengarrian at December 9, 2008 8:10 PM “
Har … legally stupid!
How to save the image .
it’s a png which I do not know what program opens.
However you can right click on the image choose save as and select all files…rename the file by adding .jpg to it and you’ll have a useful jpg image.
That you can repaste anywhere you like.
The unholy alliance has stirred up the crap in Manitoba. The Winnipeg Free press (a long time Liberal slanted newspaper)headlines quote- “MANITOBA LIBERALS JUST SAY NO’. 6 Photos of well known Manitoba Liberals decorate the front page. Here’s who they are and what they said. Senator Sharon Carstairs -“I think they have to have some kind of vote among the party membership,I think it’d totally illegitimate for 77 MPs and 58 senators who do not represent the bulk of the constituencies from coast to coast to make this decision” leadership choice – Bob Rae….Former Liberal cabinet minister LLoyd Axworthy said- “The last thing the Liberal party
needs right now is a palace coup. The first and most important rebuilding exercise we can undertake”. Favours Bob Rae…. Manitoba Liberal leader Jon Garrard said–” What I am hearing from people in the party is they want to give input in some fashion”..leadership choice undecided…Manitoba MLA Kevin Lamoureux said..”I feel disillusioned that the Liberal party might select a leader in a highly undemocratic fashion. I hope that the Liberals especially those in Ottawa will see the long term harm that will be caused as a direct result” Favours Bob Rae… Senator Maria Chaput said..”we have to really look at what the best way is to make our comeback. We need to come out with a plan this week. The question is how much can you do in a short period of time”…Undecided… Former Cabinet minister Reg Alcock said..”It’s not going to be easy,but if we get it wrong with a quickie process it will compound our problems. This is not democracy of convenience” Favours Bob Rae.
There you have it folks. Manitoba Liberals are astonished at what’s going on in their party. Regards to all.
Mac:
Hmmm. So there’s a whole bunch of NDP Trojan Horses in the Manitoba Liberal Party?
Veeeerry interesting.
From Mike Duffy on CTV News@6 on how to steal a government:
http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip120231#clip120231
“…. and this whole thing about an election at the end of January, first of February, we’ve checked all the math: Liberals couldn’t fund it, even if they wanted to. It’s got to be at least six month down the road before they get their rebates from the federal government that they could consider going to an election.”
Who owns the liberal timetable? … it kinda looks like an “outside party”.
allan – many thanx
The USA economy is extremely unbalanced. It has been driven largely by personal consumption expenditures on imported goods, financed in large part by the withdrawal of equity from home appreciation – up to $800 billion a year at its peak. This source of finance has dried up, as have credit cards, student loans, etc. Americans in general are facing debt loads that will take years to unwind. Consumer demand will shrink, new construction is coming to a standstill, cap ex will stop, foreclosures and bankruptcies will increase,creating a self-perpetuating downward spiral in economic activity. Simply put, there are no remaining internal “demand generators”. We are over-built and over-bought. Our salvation was to be in a devalued currency and increased exports. This abruptly came to a halt with the global credit freeze of last September. This is not emotionalism, it is reality. The bond market is the most reliable indicator of risk, and investors are now willing purchase 3 month Treasuries at negative interest rates due to their aversion to the risk of investing in any other asset class. Canada’s largest export market is broke (and broken) and it is losing jobs at a rate of one half million a month. Further, China reacted too slowly in stimulating domestic demand and thus they will be contributing to the global downturn for quite some time before they can take on the role of the economic engine that lifts other economies out of recession. Canada will quickly need to stimulate domestic demand through deficit spending to avoid a similar fate. It may already be too late as Ontario lost 60,000 jobs last month and will surely see escalating rates of job losses going forward. Western Canada job losses are somewhat delayed due to the massive cap ex investments before the credit freeze. This will rapidly change for the worse now that energy investments are being canceled or deferred. Harper should have submitted a budget that aggressively stimulated domestic demand. Rather, he submitted a “balanced budget” based on unrealistic economic assumptions that have already been discredited and he said that he would wait until next Spring to address any need for stimulus. In my opinion, this is not leadership, it is political grandstanding.
I’m getting rather fed up with the Canuck MSM – actually, correct that – I was fed up with them many years ago and thus don’t watch them anymore. What I learn of them and their actions today I get from the bloggers, esp. Kate.
Let’s review what happened:
1. Harper gets wind of the Lib/NDP/Bloc coalition.
2. Harper puts poison pill in the fiscal update ($1.95/vote).
3. Leftie/Separatist Coalition comes out of the closet and screams blue murder.
4. Harper retracts the poison pill.
5. Coalition still screaming and tries to grab power. Why?
6. Voters see this as a pure power grab.
7. Results – voters VERY angry with Libs/NDP/Bloc amd polls (and Quebec election) show it
8. CPC WAY up in the polls.
And Harper screwed up?? How??
bsneath,
You seem to know a lot!!!! How much is a barrel of oil going to go for next month?
Excellent encapsulation, Niall Mor.
I’ll send that to my friends and credit you.
bsneath,
What you wrote looked good on the fast scan I gave it.
I’d read it slowly but you have to make paragraphs for easier reading, the way you do it now makes me have to hold too much in my mind and doesn’t allow me to quickly recap ideas.
bsneath, what you suggest didn’t work for FDR in the 1930’s and it won’t work now. “Economic stimulus” and “deficit spending” are just polite ways of saying “centrally planned economy”. As you note, the Chicoms aren’t doing too well with theirs.
A really huge tax cut, as in cutting the top marginal rate to 20% or less and turfing the GST altogether, that might work. It certainly couldn’t hurt.
Harper may actually be smart enough to know he can’t fix what’s wrong here, and will avoid putting the country massively, ruinously in debt to no good effect. I sincerely hope so.
Sharing the pain with Canadians not on the government payroll:
– Reduction of the $1.95 party subsidy because Canadians don’t want another election soon so why provide the parties with $28 Million ANNUALLY ?!
– Reduction of the CBC annual Billion$$$ subsidy because Canadians can no longer afford that broadcasting failure which has 10,000 fatcat employees (and the equivalent of $100,000 per employee subsidy).
– Reduction of provincial transfer payments because there is only one taxpayer, and efficiencies must be imposed on bloated provincial bureaucracies.
– Reduction of equalization payments thus forcing inefficient provinces to improve their economic performances.
Non-productive paper-pushers must share the pain of unemployed, previously productive factory workers, and natural resources workers.
bsneath: “It is for these reasons that I believe Harper acted callously when presenting a fictional “balanced budget” as well as punitive measures on his “enemies”. _ I originally thought these were crude moves, but I have changed my view. I believe that Harper did know that some sort of take-down was in the works. In such a context he needs to secure the cooperation of some group of more moderate MP’s. I believe Harper has a vision for Canada (in addition to hopefully some sensible stimulus pkg.) and without a majority and without the support of some group of MP’s he is not able to move his vision forward. I believe Harper determined that with Layton/Duceppe’s and Dion’s maneuvers, Parliament was shaping up to be as disfunctional as previously. This is a high-stakes game — the government could have fallen . . . and still may, but I think Harper’s government would have been seriously hobbled and a coalition poised to take control had Harper not taken steps to reveal this unsavory plan. Among other things, the coalition has been revealed to be a sheer power grab — with little to do with policy. If Harper had sat back and the “coup” (or whatever) taken place a bit later, it may have appeared to be a serious response to an issue. Harper may not win this gambit, but smoking out the NDP and Bloc and forcing an early decision on the Liberal leadership may prove to be the best chance for his party, his best chance for success as a Prime Minister, and really in the best interests of Canadians during these treacherous times.
Observant” “Reduction of the $1.95 party subsidy because Canadians don’t want another election soon so why provide the parties with $28 Million ANNUALLY ?” — WHAT — I did not know these guys get this subsidy annually. That’s outrageous!
That is my hope, the Phantom.
If the government does “X” or the government does “Y” the government is forcing a command performance of some sector of the economy and that performance may not be the “TICKET” for recovery.
By diverting scarce resources rarefied by an economic slowdown, the government may slowdown economic recovery.
The government is not the adjudicator of the economy.
The government is the guarantor of peaceful coexistence and not a whole lot more should be expected.
Look folks, when it comes to the economy or trends, is the government ever less than 6 months to 2 years behind what is actually happening?
I think the government’s best stance is to cut impediments to growth(taxes) and stay away from stimulating growth in the wrong direction
(grants) at the cost of the grassroots market determined by Canadian consumers.
Kate – didn’t have time to read all the comments but if noone else pointed it out your CPC numbers in New Brunswick are off by 100,000. Please add as it is another province the CPC kicked butt.
I’ve got the chart with corrected numbers as a ‘jpg’ if I knew where to send it to. The numbers that change are New Brunswick to 145,132 for the Conservatives and that changes the total to 5,206,103
bsneath said: “Ontario lost 60,000 jobs last month’
Yeah, it’s a lot of jobs bsneath, especially if yours is one of them. And it’s tough on certain regions.
But again, you’re having fun with figures. If you compare the TOTAL number of jobs in Canada in relation to the job losses, you’ll likely find that the unemployment rate has changed by perhaps 6.2% to 6.6% – pretty much in line with our normal unemployment rate, which for some years has been much lower than historical rates.
I recall a little while ago, some environmental group trying to paint an oil sands producer as destroying a major river by diverting 30 million gallons or some such number annually. Sounds like a big number until it was pointed out that it was about 10 minutes worth of it’s annual flow.
That should have read FROM 6.2% to 6.6%, but I’m sure most SDA readers would have gotten my point.
Bsneath, for the umpteenth time, the Conservatives presented a fiscal update, not a budget.
Oz, I’m not an economist. All I know is I can’t start so much as a coffee shop around here in the Golden Horseshoe because of regulation costs, taxes and commercial real estate costs. Nobody can, except the big guys. They can negotiate.
As of right now, the big chains are laying off. I heard from a lady today at Home Depot that they’ve let go 150 -managers- in Ontario this week. Little guys are frozen out and can’t take up the slack when the big guys stumble. There ain’t no corner hardware stores anymore, they went away 20 years ago.
Either the tax and regulation overburden will change, and soon, or we will have some serious frickin’ unemployment and a thriving underground economy around here. Pretty simple, really.
From Mike Duffy on CTV News@6 on how to steal a government:
http://watch.ctv.ca/news/clip120231#clip120231
“…. and this whole thing about an election at the end of January, first of February, we’ve checked all the math: Liberals couldn’t fund it, even if they wanted to. It’s got to be at least six month down the road before they get their rebates from the federal government that they could consider going to an election.”
Bottm line is in January, Harper will have a minority government.. in NAME ONLY!
There will NOT be an election, it would KILL the Librannos. And Mr Demarais’s grand plans LOL..
Cut off Pravda and Tass at the the knees.
Go after their income. e-mail/phone execs of advertisers. tie up lines at Pravda and Tass. i don’t mind sitting on phone while surfing net. And yes…no death threats. Let’s take it to them.
Paul, thank you for posting that clip. Who would have ever thunk [sic] that the Liberal Party of Canada had to hold off 6 months on an election because they didn’t have enough money to fund it.
What galls me though is their lack of interest/determination to raise money by putting their case to Canadians and getting it that way. Or maybe they have half-heartily tried and Canadians have said, “Get Lost!” ?!?
“Western Arctic”?
Is there a movement to change the NWT’s name I don’t know about?
” … There will NOT be an election, it would KILL the Librannos. And Mr Demarais’s grand plans LOL.. ”
Rae is one of the few leadership contenders to have had his debts paid.
Speaking of the Desmarais’s and Power Corp. (Rae’s brother is VP) , I wonder how they feel Bob Rae has quit ?
western arctic? look no further than CBCpravda , they changed it on their own. this is the source data for the chart.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/map/2008/#
bsneath – your ‘facts’ are wrong. Harper didn’t present a budget, balanced or unbalanced. Why do you keep declaring that he did?
He presented a fiscal update which has nothing to do with a budget plan, and in this update, he was suggesting ways by which the government sector itself could cut costs – such as reducing civil service wage increases to be the same as those in the private sector (did you know that these people demand 3 to 4 times the wage increases of the private sector?).. and cutting the annual subsidy to political parties of 30 million a year. What’s your beef about this update?
It wasn’t intended to be an ‘economic stimulus’ or a ‘budget’. Again, governments of single nations don’t control the global economy, and it is naive of you to even hope that Canada does this.
Canada has a highly dependent economy, dependent on, in particular, the US to consume its products; Canada’s chief export consumer, over 80% is the US. No other country in the world has set itself up to be so dependent on only one country to import its products.
How does a single country, a country that refused to be competitive in the global economy, deal with this global economic restructuring? By networking with other economies – and we have to wait and see what the US is doing, for instance, with their auto sector. And deficit spending, as has been pointed out, isn’t a successful strategy.
Not to put too fine a point on it but the posters on SDA from the west do the same thing.
Anything the conservatives do they take credit for solely in the west.
Anything some jerknut liberal does is proof the east hates the west.
Yet almost exactly half the seats the conservatives got were from the east.
Can we drop the “let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark” meme now and just say “smash the left” no matter whey they be?
Warwick: **Can we drop the “let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark” meme now and just say “smash the left” no matter whey they be?**
Assuming you’re a conservative easterner Warwick, I understand your sentiment and agree regarding the “eastern bastards” and your proposed “smash the left” memes.
The problem is that we in the west don’t have a lot to smash, they’re mostly your neighbours.
“What galls me though is their lack of interest/determination to raise money by putting their case to Canadians and getting it that way.”
Robert
That would take work.
I agree that CBC is biased, but I think CTV is reasonably neutral. I watched both networks over the past week and CTV had the hard news way before CBC. For example, Bob Fife was devastating on the video fiasco, as was Lloyd Robinson, CBC did not comment on this at the time. Mike Duffy was peristent against a very obnoxious Bob Rae. He also dismissed Ellie May’s ranting about tanks on Parliament HIll out of hand. I agree that Donnola is a Liberal shill ( he is identified as such) and that Taber is too bubbly for my taste, but overall, I think their coverage is good. Remember it was CTV who outed Dion on his video performance in the election.
richard . boy did you pick the wrong blog to call CTV(tass) neutral. Craig Oliver is a well known Trudeau shill.
from warwick
Anything some jerknut liberal does is proof the east hates the west.
Yet almost exactly half the seats the conservatives got were from the east.
the liberal splits east west are how to we say it , not so liberally extended.
combine that with a direct attack from BackdoorJack Layton and then ask why the west cant elect a dipper or lieberal government.
anyway ,I cant see how a party that owes the taxpayer at least 10 million in stolen money could be allowed to run even one candidate.