Remember … close your eyes, klick your heels, spin around, and repeat three times …
“The Iraq War is Lost … The Iraq War is Lost … The Iraq War is Lost”.
My, what a difference a year makes:
The July 2008 updates to the Iraqi Security Forces Order of Battle are now available at the ISF OOB homepage. The significant changes to the Order of Battle that occurred in June are summarized below.
… keep reading.
I think there will be a victory in Iraq!! I remember the lefties and the Vietnam War. If the Yanks had been given free reins, the war would have been won, but people were mesmerized by the press and the peace and love monement, they seemed happy to lose.
I don’t beleive the Yanks lost the Vietnam war. They may have lost 60,00 men, but they did inflict 2.3 million casualties. That’s damned good shooting!! God bless America!!
Boo Hoo flyboy, it is a volunteer military, soldiers get killed practising all the time, people die going to work, that is life, it is terminal get over it. Your hatred of Bush is so raging it will consume you, it happened, you didn’t have to go, not that anyone would want a millie like you in the first place. Wait until you lefties get the great saviour Obama, 6 monthes in youll be begging for change, yea change did I mention change.
if USA kill Sadam to replace his job and still at the end of day try to inside Iraq under otehr reason people dies daily and use Iraq to attack other countries under any name to kill other ciivlin in neigbor or use Iraqi oil free with no encominc back indepentlay for Iraqi this isnot real help to Iraqi at all
this is only chnage kindgom and bad to worst way
if USA feed Muslim pork and alchol
not able to stop civil die
not let Irq to rebuilt
not let Irqi police able to control cities
not let Irqi have law and order to support inside and outsideand ecominc grwoth there
then this war is lost
if instead all above said can be result and people not see USA not seating in chair of Sadam under new name and ifUSA leave Iraqi and let them graudly devlop secutity and let UN help them in short and long term then all is victory
war must end in Iraq, Afgansitan and Palstinian border and in generlaly middle east
USA finish one give harras otehr one in relgion this is never ended story of war as USA planed sofar no goodnews ornot city in calm
if we hearno more killin for at leat one year in middle east for politicial reason not ordinaly crime we can say war was good I amnot opptomistc but I wish never we haere anymore ciivlina die when I open tV and like to know world news news frm Iraq always bother me people are dieing so much daily and nobody know how to stop this
so many good Iraqi left coutnry need to encourage to back to their countirs but they need scurity to do so and
USA shold not interfer in Islam law in region and negibor of Iraq get botehr with the Iraq
made Iraq weapon free cities at first
taek terrorist out and deal with crime sever and built cities and let university start and some business international start and good Iraqi back home with scurity do not get advange to use oil of them free to USA
flyboy and others – the Iraq War itself was over, and won, in less than a few months. That was the cessation of battles with the Iraqi army, the capture of the Iraq ruler, Hussein. End.
Then, began the development of Iraq as a civic democracy rather than a tribal dictatorship. If you think such a transition from both centuries of tribalism and a generation of dictatorship is easy…well…
This includes the devt of their own constitution, rule of law, democratic infrastructure..etc.. And, this transformation was being fought from within by other tribes who didn’t want to move to a civic democracy but wanted THEIR tribe to be in power. And by the tribalism of other countries such as Syria, Iran, SA, who most certainly don’t want a civic democracy in their midst.
This is what the post-war Iraq fighting was about. The attempts by various insurgents to prevent the Iraqi people from developing a democracy. The US military and other nation’s military (UK, Australia, etc) remained to help them build up this democracy, build up their own police protection..and so on.
This ‘in-between’ military protection period was vital. You can’t just leave a country released from dictatorship and except it will, on its own, with absolutely no history of democracy, transform into one overnight.
What turned the corner, finally, was that the Iraqi people themselves rejected militant tribalism and wanted a democracy. That meant that their police would act against tribalist militants and the people would stop helping such insurgents.
So, the Iraq War itself was won in a few weeks. The greatest achievement, however, was the US’ enabling the Iraqi people to strengthen themselves and move into a completely new mode of governance – democracy. Now, that’s quite an achievement for both the US and Iraq.
Once again ET nails it…I would think that the lefties would be praising the US forces for the very difficult job they are doing . They are the ‘PEACEKEEPING’ troops that so many seem to adore,rather than traditional’fighting’troops that they abhor.
I’ll have to concur with ET. It doesn’t make sense to refer to the Iraq occupation as the Iraq war, and as something that maybe, someday the USA will “win”. The war was fought and won years ago.
No word games. This is an occupation, so let’s act like men with honour rather than silly children, and call it what it is: the Iraq occupation.
flyboy, get real, did the Allies know how many troops would be needed at Normandy, Anzio, for the Occupation, etc in 1941? In
the real world of war, unlike your childlike universe where omnipotent powers are assumed of others, strategies, troops levels, outcomes shift and change.
You’ve got the mental landscape of a 4 year old where if outcomes don’t match up with your fixed narrative it must have been because adults duped you.
Did the dubya white house KNOW troop levels and projected commitments would be at the level they are now, 5 years later?
What kind of dope would ask this type of question? What war has ever had its costs and outcomes correctly projected at their onset?
Did the U.S. or the Brits correctly project the costs and outcome of the War of Independence or the War of 1812? No.
Did the North and the South correctly project the outcome of the Civil War? No.
Did the Allies correctly project the outcome of WWI, WWII. No.
Only someone who is ignorant of history could ask such a stupid question.
flyboy – what mythical world do you live in? No-one knows the future!
Got that? Not the Sphinx, not the burning of entrails, not using hallucinatory drugs, not tarot cards, not tea leaves..not anything.
Do you know why? No?
It’s because the future doesn’t exist. As itself. Therefore, you cannot plan and predict what to do, how many troops, where and when and so on..for the future. What a good planner does, is hypothesize about possible future scenarios and plan for such scenarios – and you had better plan for SEVERAL scenarios. Not one.
Why not one?
Because reality doesn’t operate the way you think it does. Mechanically. Like a machine..where you can predict that IF you don’t put oil in the machine, THEN, it will eventually seize up and stop. So, you bring your oil.
I bet you didn’t know that reality isn’t mechanical. You think it is; that it can all be planned beforehand, with all the parts included in neat plastic containers, like an IKEA or LEGO put-it-together map. Step by step.
Reality isn’t a mechanical putting-to-gether of bits.
CONC – NO – it is NOT an occupation. An occupation means that the US govt controls the govt and all its activities. Occupied territories have no control or jurisdication over what goes on in their land.
This is not the case; the Iraqi govt was elected by the Iraqi people, it set up its constitution, it runs, by itself, the economy, the police, the military, its relations with other countries, etc.
What’s the role of the US and the other nation’s armies? To assist the Iraqi govt in protecting that rule of law.
ET,
Very well said!
New,
I will pose a simple hypothetical:
Would you sooner face a clash of cultures that you can see and understand. A US force that seeks to ride the planet of terrorism but is tempered by public discourse. A force that does the dirty work and leaves behind the tools & resources for independence.
OR
The insidious act of destroying the economic base in the ME. The US can stand back, and from afar; watch Muslim fight Muslin for survival in the now worthless hither land. This is the method you never see, never debate, and some think only exists in their worst nightmare.
ET:
It appears flyboy is from the predeterminst school, where the future can be determined through a series of five-year plans.
There’s a young economics professor in our church for emigrated from Ukraine less than a decade ago.
We asked him yesterday if the economic theories of communism were now disproven.
“On the practical level, yes,” he answered.
“It’s still not dead on the theoretical level here,” I answered, and we all had a chuckle.
Like children, utopian totalitarians believe ‘the system’ is to blame for their misery and that planning the outcome will deliver a desired outcome of perfection. Wrong!
Only individual creativity and responsibility has the capacity to change society for the better.
The US is certainly imperfect, but at least their chaotic system has worked for the general well-being of humanity for nearly 225 years.
Examples of any other system that works better, flyboy?
“Into the garbage chute, flyboy!” with your argument.
Lazerbrain(flyboy): It seems that it is you who has forgotten the unanimous support from Democrats in both houses for the Iraq invasion. This is not a GWB issue like you’d have us believe, or even that you’ve deluded yourself into believing. Who is lieing here? Who is sabotaging occupation by flip-flopping? I will enjoy your crying and complaining for the next 4.5 years when McCain wins in November.
Han Solo had principles, he would not abandon his allies(friends) in their time of need.
Han Solo U R not, I suggest uza change your screen name to Jar Jar. “oky-doky”“
set you free..I certainly hope the US is imperfect. If it were perfect, it would have moved out of space and time and be ‘existent’ only as a Pure Abstract Image. Non-existent in space and time.
No further change. No capacity to evolve, to develop new science, new innovations. After all, it would be ‘perfect’!
Nothing is perfect, thank god; we are all ‘versions’ and have therefore, the capacity to adapt and change.
I love your allusion to the Wizard of Oz as how liberals ‘think’. They do all seem to be prompted by their very own Good Witch Glinda on their shoulders, albeit on closer examination she may variously be Al Gore or Michael Moore in drag.
Of course, one must then cross Dawn of the Dead zombies with Dorothy to come up with the likes of “Flyboy” but I digress….
Lone Ranger:
“I think there will be a victory in Iraq!! I remember the lefties and the Vietnam War. If the Yanks had been given free reins, the war would have been won, but people were mesmerized by the press and the peace and love monement, they seemed happy to lose.
I don’t beleive the Yanks lost the Vietnam war. They may have lost 60,00 men, but they did inflict 2.3 million casualties. That’s damned good shooting!! God bless America!!”
Maybe my ability to detect sarcasm is broken today, but are you serious??? The American public’s opinion had no impact whatsoever on the operations and goings on of the Vietnam war! The American’s had a good decade to beat the Vietnamese/U.S.S.R. and while I must commend their ability to slaughter civilians, they unfortunately did not have any clear objectives whatsoever for winning that war.
By the time American public opinion did begin to put pressure on the American government, there had been ample time to win the war, but of course there really wasn’t any clear idea of what “winning” was in Vietnam.
Anyways, if you were being sarcastic, oh well, I guess I’m just that tired.
flyboy: Another thing that virtually all pundits, including many conservatives, leave out of analysis on Iraq, is that there is an intelligent, complex, thinking, funded, motivated enemy. That enemy counters the best plan with his own, and above all, has an agenda that he will change to match yours.
If you had paid attention in university history class, you may have picked up on this fact.
What that means, is that every armed conflict is dynamic, no matter how out-gunned one side may be. It means, that unforeseen evolutions will take place, and even once you adapt to those, the creature will sprout new wings forcing you to adapt once again.
In the end, the strongest, the smartest, most adaptable, most well funded, most motivated, and above all, most determined will win. Many pundits (usually ignorant journalists), don’t understand that determination is key, because a determined tiny force, can defeat a poorly motivated large force.
Our side was greatly handicapped in this evolution because it willfully chose to avoid harming citizens, and in fact, desired to help them and win them over. This is what we call being “civilized” and rightly so.
Our side did win over the civilian population. Historically, there are few parallels to fighting an indigenous force allied to a foreign force, yet managing to win over the indigenous force.
Historically, Iraq may become a stunning and unique victory; a watershed event in warfare … watershed event that leftists, like you, dread. That is why it is critical for the left, especially the Olympian UN left, that Iraq be lost. The worst defeat for this ideology is that Iraqis come to cherish their invaders.
Too bad for leftists … Iraqis have already decided who they choose. I’d wager at this point that the average Iraqi loves America more than the average American left-winger.
Flyboy, I definitely agree with others that any underestimates of cost and effort in Iraq over the past five years is hardly evidence of LYING or INCOMPETENCE, and it is kind of silly to suggest this if you followed the events of this war at all.
In any case, I won’t grant you the scenario you’ve described here anyway, because President Bush has always been clear that the war on terror would be long and difficult. Many Democrats and allies agreed with him for about 6 months until they got bored with his persistence and switched to opposing the war on terror.
Maybe you can answer a related question: What would your response have been if the tactic of your enemy was to target civilians and if the rest of the world blamed you for each of these deaths?
Would you run away as Mr. Obama suggests?
Would you pull out your troops and bomb the country into submission as others suggested at the time?
Or would you continue to spend money and additional troops to protect civilians and freedom at all cost the way that President Bush and the American military have done?
So the NSA for Iraq asks for a withdrawal timeline from the american military and they refuse to give one.
So an elected goverment representing the Iraqi people requests something and is denied it hmmmmm?
I wonder what you call that?