Writings by Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui have been obtained by The Smoking Gun.
As they always are.
(h/t WM Redux in the comments.)
Kathy Shaidle – “We really need to ban “Creative Writing” programs.”
Barack Obama, paraphrased – “Virginia Tech. Don Imus. Same thing.“
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Oh my goodness… if only we had a National “Moody Loners with Violent Impulses” Registry.
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We really need to ban “Creative Writing” programs. Or just college in general.
Sounds like an author of Natural Born Killers. Why is not Tarantino locked up?
Good idea Neo. I heard there is a spare 6GB hard drive on the 386 the Libs bought for 2 Billion.
“Sounds like an author of Natural Born Killers. Why is not Tarantino locked up?”
For that matter, what about “American Psycho” by Bret Easton Ellis?
Uhm, because American Psycho was a satire on 80s “greed & consumerism”, playing on the fascination with serial killers that was then coming into vogue. I’m perpetually amazed by the many people who can’t understand that the novel was (as if we needed one) a condemnation of all these things.
We don’t need creative writing classes but we really need creative reading courses.
Not knowing the time frame of his play, all I can say is that as a college level creative writing piece, putting aside the content, I’m stunned at how bad his writing skills are. VT is no slacker school. It’s hard to reconcile that he was a student there.
This was one angry young man. A loner. On an anti-depressant. You wonder what student health services knew about him, assuming he was getting anti-depressants from them. There is a reason that mental status assessments always include “are you feeling suicidal or homicidal?” Depression and homicide rarely correlate, so what else was going on?
Parents aren’t divorced. Sister graduated from Princeton. Doesn’t sound like a dysfunctional family. So many unanswered questions.
I understand that the movie NATURAL BORN KILLERS was one of the incedence for LITTKLETON and COLUMBINE but that you did,nt hear from MIKIE MOORE thats from me SPURWING PLOVER
So many unanswered questions.
Those kinds of questions will never be answered. There is no point in looking for factors in his background that caused this. Most people with those same factors never go on a killing spree. Some people are just crazy and evil.
Very disturbing and confusing. Was this the mind of a angry psychotic killer, a call for help or a very angry, introverted, mis-diagnosed individual? Were any of these ramblings symbolic in any way of his family life, or mere fantasy? Or was he just a selfish, ranting fanatic? He seems very immature in his reasoning, blaming his actions on his victims. He wasn’t a very good writer either. Hard to believe he was an english major.
I would suggest following the link to read the play. It reads word for word exactly like comments on the Lefty blogs: Kos, PuffHo, DU. Demented, hate filled, conspiracy laden immature and very dangerous psychosis.
IMO, this guy is just seething with sexual anger and rejection. Too bad he couldn’t have been taken out before he did the big nasty. I’m not a psycho pro or anything but this guy is seriously screwed. Doesn’t take a professional to figure that one out.
IMO, this guy is just seething with sexual anger and rejection.
I suppose if you really wanted to delve into the idiocy of our modern victim culture you could go looking for a girl that was insufficiently sensitive to his feelings in rejecting him. Maybe we could find a girl who ridiculed his manhood and equipment, questioned his orientation and threw in some racial disparagement to boot. Maybe we could make him out to be the victim after all. Or maybe let’s not.
Cannot believe,that Henry Champ,on our beloved mothercorp..cbc,didn’t miss the chance to somehow slag PMSH,in leadup to press conf.from Virginia!Just now,on ‘welcome to the brawwwwwwwdcast’..Champ says:I imagine it will be a Stephen Harper type press conference..with NO questions asked!
Never,ever,even in the face of this horrific incident..blow a chance to insert PMSH into the mix,in a negative way!If I wasn’t such a lady..I would say..WHAT A F’n WASTE OF SKIN Champ is!
It is a little too convenient to blame the guns.
This individual obviously had some big psychological hang ups, given his dark and violence laden english essays; as referenced above.
Further, by using an auto loader for both pistol and firearm he was obviously out to make a statement. This was more than just a ‘crime of passion’, but some deep seated anger issues simmering for some time.
Interesting that he uses the theme of pedophilia for his ‘play’.
Another, news story raised the issue of a note on the shooter’s forearm denoted “Ismail’s Ax” so this may indicate some terror link or sympathy.
But hey, in Canada 49 street gals get sliced and diced like so much hamburger, their hands, feet and heads found in buckets in the freezer and there is not much outrage. cf Willy Pickton
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/robert_pickton/1.html
Almost like the Fritz Haarmann story, my mother used to tell us, when Clifford Olson was on the loose, they sang kids song about:
“Hier kommt Haarmann und macht Hackefleisch aus dir.”
Here comes Haarmann to make butcher meat out of you.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/history/haarman/index_1.html
All stories equally outrageous. Perhaps the methodology is immaterial, it is the sheer audacity to commit atrocity without much sense of conscience.
In a sense it is the amoral life come to fruition, that ultimately life is simply cheap.
Fortunately, for the vast majority of folk, most do not look at life so bleakly.
While the Greek philosopher, Socrates, famously stated that “the unreflective life is not worth living.” Perhaps our society does not reflect enough.
Perhaps we should restate this as:
“The reflective life is worth living.” and we will have less of such ghastly incidents.
It was a bad story, because the characters are disjointed cardboard who hurl words at each other without any connection to action except in a rote-choppy way. Some of the bizarreries in it, though, are clearly derived from Asian culture.
When reading it, I got the feeling that Seung-Hui’s alter ego was Richard – yep, Dick McBeef.That would be consistent with his crazed ‘vengeance’ motive.
I think the writings show his state of mind…he was in meltdown…becoming delusiona.
Preliminara info coming out now states he was IDed as an abnormal behavior case a year previous and ABC reported that he had been or was on precribed psychotropic drugs…this suggests he had been in treatment or under medical/psychological care.
There is also a deep link between anti depressent use and shooting spree killers….many of the anti depressants are known to have long term effects that include psychotic reactions (delusions) and violent acting out on said delusions
3w.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm
“”Here are the last major school shooters and the link under each name is a reputable news source that connects them all with SSRI’s (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) like Prozac, Ritalin, Zoloft, Luvox, Paxil, and others:
1) May 20 1999: T.J. Solomon, a 15-year-old wounds six at Heritage High School in Conyers, Ga.. CNN Reports That T.J. Solomon was on Ritalin.
2) April 16 1999: Shawn Cooper, a 15-year-old sophomore wounds one at Notus Junior-Senior High School in Notus, Idaho. Reports are that Cooper was abused and medicated.
3) April 20 1999: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kill thirteen and wound twenty three at Columbine Eric Harris, The apparent leader of the attack had been on Luvox.
4) May 21, 1998: Kip Kinkel, a 15-year-old kills four and wounds twenty three at Thurston High School in Springfield, Ore.. Kinkle Had been taking Prozac.
5) March 24, 1998: Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, opened fire on their classmates and killed five and wounded eleven at Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Ark..Arkansas Online Andrew Golden’s Medical Records released to Courts but not open to the public!
From Jon Rappaport of the Truthseeker foundation: A Doctor from Georgetown University commented on Network television that one of the boys had previously been treated for violent behavior. (Treated with what?)
AND According to Arianna Huffington the following events are linked to Anti-Depressants as well:
6) Julie Marie Meade from Maryland who was shot to death by the police when they found her waving a gun at them.
7) Ben Garris, a 16-year-old in Baltimore who stabbed his counselor to death.
8) Kristina Fetters, a 14-year-old from Des Moines, Iowa, who stabbed her favorite great aunt in a rage that landed her a life sentence.
9) Pfizer, The Manufacturer of Zoloft is being sued by a Kansas family for the Suicide of their 14 year old son on Zoloft.
10) The estate of Brynn Hartman, Wife of the Saturday Night Live Comedian, Phil Hartman, is also suing Pfizer, since Mrs. Hartman had been on Zoloft when she killed her husband and herself! “”
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Depression drugs the silent partner in school shootings?
Interestingly, Virginia and most other states who passes a concealed carry handgun permitting law have seen violent gun crimes going down for the past 8 years…the only segmewnt where gun violence seems to be escallating is on school campuses….something to ponder.
I’m not so sure who he felt rejected by after reading that play, his mother? Did he actually have a girlfriend(s) who rejected him or was that a fantasy? Some of the things I’m hearing about re other students trying to be-friend him, leads me to wonder. Was the perceived girlfriend, who he shot first, ever his to begin with? Or was she a figment of his imagination?
Sounds as if he was a poor student and many of his classmates and teachers had concerns about his plays.
Someone pointed out on FOX that he applied for the second gun on the exact day he was legally entitled to (4weeks?) pointing more than ever to pre-med.
There is no point in looking for factors in his background that caused this.
Not so. He maay have been psychotic, he’s the classic age for the onset of schizophrenia, happens all of the time during college years, and he slipped through the cracks of campus health services. Anyone in his daily routine noticing a precipitous change in behavior? He was getting psych meds from someone. A psychiatric autopsy isn’t a bad thing.
I work in psych, it’s of interest to me. If this isn’t examined fully, how do you have the information to be better alerted next time?
I think the story shows the shooter was in mental melt down.
ABC reports he was IDed as an abnormal behavior case a year previous….and ABC states he is belived to have been on psychotropic drugs for depression either during the spree of at some time before.
There is a documented clinical link to the psychotrophic drugs and violent shooting spree murders as many of the kids were on either Prozac or Ritalin or some other pschotroph at the time of their shootings…they were all delusional and their state of mind matched the findings of reports that long term use of these common psychotropics produces violent delusions and psychotic episodes.
Are depression meds the silent partners in many of these schoole shooting sprees?
3w.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm
as a Matter of interest , violent shooting crimes have been on a stready downward spiral in the us…particularly in states with concealed carry laws like Virginia….the only area in the Lott study that showed a marked increase in gun violence was in schools and campuses….go figgure!?!
I think the story shows the shooter was in mental melt down.
ABC reports he was IDed as an abnormal behavior case a year previous….and ABC states he is belived to have been on psychotropic drugs for depression either during the spree of at some time before.
There is a documented clinical link to the psychotrophic drugs and violent shooting spree murders as many of the kids were on either Prozac or Ritalin or some other pschotroph at the time of their shootings…they were all delusional and their state of mind matched the findings of reports that long term use of these common psychotropics produces violent delusions and psychotic episodes.
Are depression meds the silent partners in many of these schoole shooting sprees?
3w.antidepressantsfacts.com/2000-05-16-School-Shootings-Psychotropic-Drugs.htm
as a Matter of interest , violent shooting crimes have been on a stready downward spiral in the us…particularly in states with concealed carry laws like Virginia….the only area in the Lott study that showed a marked increase in gun violence was in schools and campuses….go figgure!?!
“We don’t need creative writing classes but we really need creative reading courses.”
Kathy, I do believe it is reading comprehension that is needed. The MSM and leftoids already put a creative interpretation on what is written. I believe it is called spin. Or maybe it is a Jewish conspiracy. After all, Europe is blaming Charleston Heston and he did play Moses…
“We really need to ban ‘Creative Writing’ programs.”
Quite possibly correct, but I’d start with paying a hell of a lot more attention to who gets hired in all of our schools, and what they end up going on about in class. Kevin Jaeger’s comment about our wonderful modern victim culture gets right at the core of the problem, too.
I’m sorry, Kathy, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for us to ban “college in general”, as you suggest, and in particular I don’t think it’s a good idea to ban the sort of tech education taught at VT. It’s probably a good idea for us to continue to support the eduction of people like doctors and engineers. Let’s not, though, just wallow in the mud, like most of the media and many of the blog commenters have on this subject for the last 30 hours.
This morning’s National Post, the one paper I still read (the others are worse), had as its front page a black background with white text. The text font size was larger than the “War Ends” headlines in 1945. Thirty-two innocent people died yesterday. Our hearts are with their families and friends. Yet all the blabber-mouths can do is go on and on trying to use this tragic event to bolster their cause.
Meanwhile, on the same day, eight people died in the US due to unseasonably cold temperatures, and four in Quebec. I understand the difference between “accidental” deaths and murder, but at the end of the day you’re dead. Shall we ban school buses?
The irrational pandering innumeracy of the apragmitic agenda mongers raises its ugly head yet again.
And so, at the end of the day, the politicians will once again promise us things we can’t have, and we will pay for the lack of results through the nose. That’s sickening too, and it’s of higher risk to you, dear reader, than getting shot by a psychopath.
Obama didn’t say anything close to your “paraphrase.”
Vitruvius: It seems like a lot of people to die…yes it was murder but in a larger context they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time like those killed in car, bus, plane and natural disasters and sundry other misadventures that are compiled by the actuarials.
In north America 61 people died on the highways in auto acidents, 200 expired from common flu and another 200 plus from medical misadventure and 300 plus the victims of a crime….these are insurance acuarials….yesterday the gun-crime death toll actually matched that of other misadventures in number….but it has a magical stimata to it because a “gun” was used and a single killer was responsible that has the liberal hand wringers and navel gazers in full innumeracy mode
Hot Air (dot com) has quite a bit of info. Accounts from other students roomates, more of his strange plays. Every time a question gets answered, for me, two new ones come up.
Her last update re a news conference is very odd. Says there was NO suicide note contrary to what has been reported (Washington Post), have to read up a little more on that and see the context. Last few updates, add to strangeness.
The issue isn’t his creative writing, although I couldn’t get past the first few pages…..this guy gave warning signs….a fire he set in the dorms, stalking a female….kids in his creative writing class joking that they were just waiting for him to pull some horrible thing off.
Why do people ignore the warning signs??? They’re always there.
Because 95% of people who give off “warning signs” end up hurting nobody at all. That’s why.
Obama didn’t say anything close to your “paraphrase.”
You may be right. Perhaps he’s not as stupid as he sounds – just inarticulate.
OK, well, maybe he’s a little stupid, too.
You are right about one thing Kate, where you said that 95% of people who give off warning signs don’t end up killing people. However, the writing project written by this guy is very disturbing, and any sane teacher would not give this even a low passing grade.
M1 Garand: It’s been my dream to own one for myself. They go for what, about $3,000 now?
IMHO the only way to stop a person like this is to have some stopping power on your hip on in your purse. When are we going to wake up to the facts of life? Probably not in my lifetime.
If this is considered college level writing, Virginia Tech is in deep trouble. Grade six is closer.
Doug, M1 garand’s sell for about $1500 Cdn, last gun show I was at, but, down in the U.S. i believe they’re cheaper, $800 U.S. range.
Vitruvius,
Your willingness to put things in perspective is certainly accurate and possibly even refreshing. However, I think some may find it a bit, how shall I say this gently, tone-deaf. Unfortunate reality.
Dr. Dawg,
No hard feelings about your ban. Sorry, I’m an atheist, though. See you around the blogiverse.
One damned odd aspect about Seung-Hui is that he was an English major at Virginia Tech. Given how bad that short play of his was, him taking up that major was really strange. At the very least, he must have had some interpretive skills in order to get into the English program at all.
He also had a known hatred of a math teacher, as expressed in one of those writings of his – a story, I believe it was.
[I have to disclose that I got both factoids from the CTV NewsNet show The Verdict. Yes, gun control was discussed; the fact that a psycho killer would have few or no qualms about buying illegal wasn’t, as of the time of this posting]
Yeah, he did, actually:
http://www.udolpho.com/weblog/?id=01177&title=Imus-you-pulled-the-trigger-on-my-heart
“Obama of course could not wait to start talking about the Virginia Tech massacre, but beyond a reference to getting that assault weapons ban back in*, had nothing at all to say about it. Instead, he used it to make the craziest seque he could think of, shifting from the violence of shooting people to the violence of calling them “nappy-headed ho’s”.”
Can we stop calling Obama “articulate” now? Please? Or would that be racist too? For an actual racist, I sure have a hard time keeping this crap straight? Oh wait: is “straight” ok, or too reflective of heteronormalism?
Update to my last comment: there was a host-moderated debate on gun control later, with a lifetime NRA member as the rebutter; he didn’t mention the illegal-purchase option either. There was a bit of covert editorializing from the host – and I’m sure you can guess which way it went.
Well, I would prefer never to be more than an arm’s length away from a gun, but that’s unrealistic.
I think that anyone who feels that they are under threat should be able to get hold of a gun pretty quick, and a government that tries to stop them is simply an enemy.
However, if everyone being able to be armed is not doable, how about diminishing tuition fees for military veterans who attend universities.
Society has already placed guns in the hands of young people who have served in the military, taught about their use, and many veterans head for the university when they get out.
One could offer them the opportunity to go through specific training simply to carry concealed weapons as they sit in classes or wander around campus.
When I got back from VietNam and went to the university, if someone had kicked up a little dinero simply for some training in shoot/don’t shoot situations and carrying a weapon for protecting the campus, I would have jumped at the deal.
Greg in Dallas; not a bad idea. Call them Campus Marshalls instead of Sky Marshalls.
At the end of the dead thread from yesterday, I hinted at something to that effect. Self defense courses in junior/senior high. Maybe a Cadet/citizen’s militia opportunity, volunteer of course.
Other than the 2 hour delay between the first 2 killings and the rest (for which someone is gonna have some splainin’ to do), did anyone notice that the fact that this guy killed 30 people in a very short time with a 9mm Glock handgun? (and allegedly was carrying a .22 Walther).
This guy was either a very good shot or everyone he killed sat at their desks like a first grader (I think not).
Was this the the local wacko at the range? or was he more normal that his ‘creative’ writing suggests. Either way it’s a terrible thing but just goes to show how vigilant we must all be when evaluating people.
Oh, and where’s Wendy Cookier when we don’t need her? (wait for it – she’s on the way to the rescue)
Because 95% of people who give off “warning signs” end up hurting nobody at all. That’s why.
….where did you get this statistic from????
Do you have a source to prove this???
In my experience of life (which is long by the way), this statistic you quoted is way off.
“Uhm, because American Psycho was a satire on 80s ‘greed & consumerism’, playing on the fascination with serial killers that was then coming into vogue. I’m perpetually amazed by the many people who can’t understand that the novel was (as if we needed one) a condemnation of all these things.”
Right. So descriptions of extreme violence are OK if they’re coming from “noted writers” but not if they’re coming from “moody loners”?
Question is, how to tell ’em apart?
WLMR – re:the connection between the SSRIs and mass murder?
Gee, do you think it’s a coincidence that many or most mm’s are disturbed individuals who also happen to be prescribed SSRIs by their doctors?
You’re starting to sound a lot like a Scientologist, buddy!
SSRIs and MAOs have saved countless more lives than they’ve ever harmed, and there is no legitimate, credible source for your allegations. Give your head a shake!!!
Shaidle – gee, what a surprise…the Catholic Taliban wants to shut down post-secondary programs and institutes. Hahaha! You’re way too funny!
LOL @ the title “Richard McBeef”
The play is written out of rage and a disturbed mind. It could well be semi-biograhpical in places and follows a pretty basic polarised narrative structure (like a violent computer game, perhaps?). It’s as sophisticated as a paper bag with crass dialogue and a not-too-hidden pun on how he saw corporations as bullies. It is less than mediocre and I can’t believe his lecturer didn’t speak up earlier ot get him banned from VTECH. It would have saved some lives.
The play is written out of rage and a disturbed mind. It could well be semi-biograhpical in places and follows a pretty basic polarised narrative structure (like a violent computer game, perhaps?). It’s as sophisticated as a paper bag with crass dialogue and a not-too-hidden pun on how he saw corporations as bullies. It is less than mediocre and I can’t believe his lecturer didn’t speak up earlier and get him banned from VTECH. It would have saved some lives.
I’d first like to point out that this is very poorly written. I’ve read and wrote many “disturbing things” and by the standards used here to judge mental state I should be eating the heads of goats and drinking children’s blood while masturbating in my own feces. Instead I’ve had many readings at bookstores and been awarded all sorts of things for my work. I think that we are taking correlation to equal causation for granted here. Obviously he had a problem, as the sane don’t really just kill a bunch of people for no concrete reason. However, problems don’t just pop up out of nowhere – what about the rest of his life? he was 23 years old from what I understand – so he just became unstable at college?? theres more to it than that. I want to know the backstory here.
Now – to ban someone for writing something we don’t like or agree with is rediculous because as we all know – freedom to write is a double edged sword. the freedom that allows those to comment on “banning creative writing” (because hell, nothing good ever came from creative writing right? we all sit and read technical manuals and watch static on TV don’t we?) is the same freedom that allows him to write poorly concieved heavy-handed plays about whatever he wants to write them about.
By these standards that I’m reading about above we should have never let Sylvia Plath near a pencil, Joseph Conrad used naughty words, and Mark Twain wrote about the devil – PUNISH THEM!
We can blame things around us and turn this event into a platform for our political agendas all we want, but does anyone honestly believe that if he wasn’t “allowed” to write, or buy a gun, or rent a movie, or play a video game that all would be fine? that this wouldn’t have occured? If you do believe that, I would say you are as confused as he was.
“Shaidle – gee, what a surprise…the Catholic Taliban wants to shut down post-secondary programs and institutes.”
There is no Catholic Taliban. Quite the contrary, more than one famous university or school in the world owes its very foundation to the Church.
It’s interesting to contrast the multitude of well known Catholic centres of higher education around the world with the paucity of Muslim ones.
Oh, honey-poo! I can’t imagine anyone trying to perform this play. It’s difficult enough to hit two concurrent “McBeef eyes” on the dart board in John’s room, but it’s even more difficult to expect the audience to sit tight for thirty minutes after Richard flees the chainsaw-wielding Sue before John joins Richard in the car. I haven’t even mentioned the play’s utter lack of verisimilitude. “Richard McBeef” is one fruity play!