BBC;
Healthy new-born babies may have been killed in Ukraine to feed a flourishing international trade in stem cells, evidence obtained by the BBC suggests.
Disturbing video footage of post-mortem examinations on dismembered tiny bodies raises serious questions about what happened to them.
Ukraine has become the self-styled stem cell capital of the world.
There is a trade in stem cells from aborted foetuses, amid unproven claims they can help fight many diseases.
But now there are claims that stem cells are also being harvested from live babies.
Can’t they find the cells they need on death row?
complete absence of surprises here.
any new technology is a 2 edged sword.
nuke power is exceptionally abundant and good additional source of electricity, but it is also the manner in which atom bombs detonate.
nobel prize exists because alfred nobel’s invention dynamite was used to build grand scale project thingys. and destroy them, thus the guilty conscience effect.
stem cell is great for thoalready at the point where they can benefit AND defend their situation.
not so newborns in a recently former communist country strapped for cash as usual.
Call the cells harvested from tiny, dead or alive babies what they are. They are embryonic stem cells.
All other stem cells have proven their worth unlike the embryonic cells. The abort life groups are in it for the big payouts and political propaganda only.
M.J.Fox had an interview on ctv which talked about embryonic stem cell research as being somekind of silver bullet for those folks who suffer from “body movement disorders”. (my words)
I wrote to ctv suggesting they do some homework next time as therapies are avaiable to those who suffer. One such therapy being deep brain implants. Electodes are implanted deep in a persons hypothalamus area of the brain and are stimulated by electric current. This therapy works.
The peddlars of embryonic stem cell stories may be great story tellers, but that is all they are.
It is a great diservice to those who suffer because it denys these folks accurate information regarding available treatment.
I know this because I have deep brain implants and they work. They have given me a new life and a chance for quality living.
I would be extremely careful about stories of ‘killing babies for…’. This image is always one of the first that emerges, almost spontaneously, in crisis eras and areas. Whether it be in Iraq, in New Orleans, in Afghanistan, wherever – the theme is the same – a baby deliberately killed for various reasons – and very often, because of some evil action by the West.
I’d be sceptical of these types of reports.
I find myself unable to tell if MJF is sincerely ignorant (and thus a pawn of those using his ‘star status’ to promote their cause), or deliberately misrepresenting hope due to embryonic stem cell research. If he was well-informed and truly interested in non-ethically-challenged sources of real hope in the stem cell world, he’d be promoting the hopes (and many already-realized successes) of adult stem cells (and cord blood stem cells). Alas, he and his like will remain silent, even if the Ukraine report is shown to be certain.
Disturbing video footage of post-mortem examinations on dismembered tiny bodies raises serious questions about what happened to them.
These reporters should check out the local abortion dumpster, and see how different the bodies appear.
Did I hear that correctly? They are killing healthy babies in order to harvest their stem cells?
I somehow find that very hard to believe.
for the pro abortion crowd they weren’t babies- just over ripe fetuses, they don’t become people until they are ideologically useful.
“They are killing healthy babies…”
Late term abortion of healthy babies is performed everyday right here in Canada. What’s the difference between a healthy baby being killed in the womb in the 9th month, or out of the womb?
If you don’t know the answer to that question, you should ask a Liberal, NDPer, or the kids at Carleton. They whole heartedly support it, so they must have a moral answer to that question.
Irwin,
Although we have no law restricting abortion at any stage, I’m not sure that very late-term (ie, 9th month) abortions are performed in Canada. I believe we pay thousands (10’s of thousands?) of dollars each for women who so desire to get extremely late term abortions in the US. On the other hand, there was some reporting a few years back of a Calgary hospital that left babies that survived late-term abortions to die unattended on counters and in bedpans and the like. I’m not sure whatever became of that hubbub.
There has never been a dearth of available stem cells, but rather, inadequate funding to pursue research. Many embryos are disposed of every year wherever reproductive treatments exist, making fetus harvesting completely unnecessary. But for a propitious atmosphere and government sponsored research, which is vital to all early research on the vanguard, we might eventually realize real therapies for some very serious maladies.
It is never impressive to encounter objections to scientific efforts by laymen, not on ethical grounds but on scientific merit. These are usually the people who attempt to refute evolution without a true comprehension of scientific method or an acquaintance with the facts.
“I’m not sure that very late-term (ie, 9th month) abortions are performed in Canada”
That’s the problem, nobody really knows because there is no clear law on it. Shouldn’t something as serious as life and death have a clearly written law governing it? But you can’t even discuss it in Canada and can even have your funding cut off at university if you dare to bring it up. (Carleton)
to: I Risen
The problem with your claim is that research had only begun on embroyonic stem cells before Bushco put the kibosh on it to appease his “pro-life” base. To claim that embroyonic stem cells have not shown their worth after Bushco limited said research is disingenous to say the least.
Murray,
Did you get your information from Castroco or ThugoChavezco or KimJongIlco, or CindySheHagco, or MinkeWhaleMooreco on that?
Or was it just the usual tinfoilhatmoonbatco?
Just wondering.
An awful lot of maybe’s in that story. And to a large extent irrelevant to stem cell research and whatever benefit they may have.
Even if we grant that the story is true what does the illegal actions of an Urkaine hospital have to do with stem cell research anyway?
Do we stop doing kidney transplants because of the dubious nature of some of the ‘donors’ from eastern europe and third world countries? We know for a fact that many of those donations if not carried out illegally are done in a very clouded moral environment.
Thinking we can stop research or treatment (if it comes to that some day) which may benefit sick and dying desparate people reveals a very scary naiveté about the real world. The only responsible course of action is to allow research under the close watch of our medical and legal establishments.
ummm…how do you get embryonic stem cells from a fetus? At the point the entity has developed to the fetal stage its various cells have already been designated to their various constituents. That would nullify the specific promise of embryonic stem cells.
Look on the bright side, most of the people who have an abortion are probably lefties. Think of it as pre-emptively preventing the next generation of stupid liberals.
Murray: “research had only begun on embroyonic stem cells before Bushco put the kibosh on it to appease his “pro-life” base.”
You may be right about research being in its early stages and you may be right about the appeasement.
You are wrong when you say Bushco (that’s so very clever; did you make it up all by yourself or did Mommy help?) stopped research as he did no such thing. What he did do was stop federal funding.
In a nutshell, Bush said, “You can do it; we’re not paying for it.”
joebaloni,
The pro-life movement has pretty consistently opposed IVF, precisely because excess embryos are always produced and then disposed of. I’ll grant that it’s probably not been heard as much as opposition to abortion, but IVF (and similar procedures) have always been ethically questionable. It’s just that we’re used to it now.
Horrific! Thank you embryonic stem cell zealots–your values are evil.
Given the number of cases and frequency of BBC making up news and failing to substantiate claims…
I would not give BBC reports a bit of credence…unless they can be independently confirmed.
The folks at BBC have consistently set new lows for lack of journalistic integrity….making themselves no better than the sleaziest of tabloids.
You would be better off getting “News” from Pravda On-line….at least it’s more entertaining.
Murray,
I believe that the facts DO NOT bear out your bush-league “Bushco” claim. In fact, it was the great emanciPANTer who stopped the funding:
1995 – President Bill Clinton signs into law the Dickey Amendment which prohibited Federally appropriated funds to be used for research where human embryos would be either created or destroyed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell#Key_events_in_stem_cell_research
In fact, it looks like Bush actually authorized about $350 million in spending for stem cell research over a 5 year period.
Notice also, all the fraud associated with embrionic stem cells (mostly from Korea).
It’s too early to rule out the value of research into embryonic stem cells. There’s plenty of life saving drugs and techniques that took decades of research to come to fruition.
Jose,
If we’re concerned about trafficking in human lives, then no, it’s not too early to rule out embryonic stem cell research. It’s the only stem cell research that necessarily takes a human being’s life. The fact that the other stem cell researches have already provided limited treatments is further reason to devote our energy to exploring them fully, and just put this demon back in Pandora’s box before he really gets going.
and jose how many of those cost the lives of defenseless babies? I know you think since he or she isnt born yet there not human but they sure dont pop out as rabbits or elephants!!!!!!!
To everyone who supports the murder (oops abortion) of unborn babies, how about we go with retroactive?
To this date there have been zero successful treatments developed using embryonic stem cells.
One study in rats showed promise until the rats started developing numerous “tumors”. Strangely enough, rather than continue the study and let the “tumors” develop, the research team destroyed the rats.
What’s a mother to do when the DNA analysis of her unborn child comes back “100% probability of developing Parkinson’s disease”?
I’ve never had much problem with the creation or disposal of embryos for implantation. There are more human cells lost when you blow you nose or get a tooth pulled than when an embryo is flushed. Doing research on the ones that don’t get implanted doesn’t seem unreasonable, assuming they are freely donated. People donate their bodies to science, why not left-over embryos which will only be destroyed otherwise?
However, government (Canadian or American) funding of embryonic stem cell research has two major problems.
First, there is an almost 100% likelyhood of a commercial market for embryonic tissue springing up. Sooner or later some of that tissue is going to come from morally questionable sources, like people creating embryos strictly for sale. Take the money out of it and that probably won’t happen.
Second, not everyone shares my opinion on the matter. In a free country, it is not good that their tax dollars should go to funding things they consider morally wrong. They have the right to refuse to be a part of it.
As to this specific example from the BBC, gotta say I doubt it. Its like the BBC reporting on Palestine, take it with a box of salt.
Phantom, the obvious problem is that, at that particular stage of human life, those few cells make up the whole individual. You can ‘blow your nose’ without any adverse consequences to your own body. You can’t destroy an embryo without taking an innocent human life.
I greatly appreciate your comments about not forcing me (and others) to fund research that we believe akin to murder.
Shaken, the same thing one does as you watch a loved one deal with this disease – support as well as you can, help take care in ways that the individual cannot for himself. Anything along the lines of ‘abort the imperfect’ smacks of eugenics.
Quick aside, not that it won’t be possible someday, but when do doctors every commit themselves 100%?
Butchering live babies for stem cells. Talk about kooks you guys sure fill the spot. Listen to you. For Chisakes you’re all nuts. And you tell me 4,000,000 people visit this site. I can’t believe there are 4 million screwballs like you guys.
If this report is accurate, it would have little to do with legitimate stem cell research and more to do with a bizarre misunderstanding of how stem cells are used, a quack remedy like rhino horn:
“The foetuses are cryogenically frozen and sold to clinics offering ‘youth injections’, claiming to rejuvenate skin and cure a raft of diseases.”
If this story is true many anti-abortion people are going to feel vindicated. And fetal stem cell advocates will feel discomfort (check out some of the posts above).
Yes, dorkafork, it may be “rhinohorn” now. Imagine the demand if fetal stem cells become a cure all.
As for murdering infants to harvest bone marrow for stemcells. It sounds like a script from some sort of R-Rated horror movie. Only a society largely composed of narcissistic sociopaths would ever allow such a practice.
Societies vary. What one will allow and one will not is subject to many circumstances. Don’t kid yourself, this can and most likely does happen today. (society can’t cover it all – last time I checked society in Toronto doesn’t generally allow murder by gun or knife but that doesn’t mean it never happens)
sarge heard that if one of them stem cell lines come up the a cure for juvinile diabetes, that that would send a ripple through the pharmacuetical and medical equipment bidiness that would ultimately cost them industries 50 billion dollars per year when a guy takes into account insulin and blood sugar machines and strips and prosthetic legs and anti rejection drugs and vascular surgeon fees and thick coke bottle eye glasses and all them inpatient hours and all them other things them people with the sugar diabetes are always needing. sarge heard makin pancreatic islet cells might be purty easy compared to a lot a other organs and stuff but maybe thats jest here a say and nuthin’ too it at all….jest that when sarge sees conservatives up in arms against somethin’ sarge figures theres big money involved somewhere
All I can say how far would you go to save yourself?
S. Baker – good question (although perhaps a false choice is contained in it). Even if it were necessary to protect my life, I should choose death rather than the death of another (especially an innocent life). However, so far the most promising stem cell work has been done on non-embryonic stem cells, which kinda make the embryonic stem cell question moot.
Kathryn
Nice and gratuitous. Did you mommy help you with that one?
With the cost of research nowadays, kiboshing federal funding can be the kiss of death for research. And there is still private research going on. It will go slower as there are fewer resources available, thanks to Bushco. And potential cures and problems will not be discovered as fast.
And lets keep in mind the ONLY veto Bush did was to kibosh a embryonic-stem cell research bill this year.
Talk about Pandering…
I guess he needed the money for the unproven faith-based programs, eh?
Another Sean
From your source…
endorses the United States Congress in
providing limited federal funding for
embryonic stem cell research totalling
approximately $100 million. At the same time,
he also enacts laws that restrict federally
funded stem cell research on embryonic stem
cells to the already derived but dwindling
cell lines.
Limited federal funding of $100 million to embryonic stem cell research, while at the same time RESTRICTING research to an ever decreasing set of cell lines.
Really helpful here. But what about the extra $250 million?
Bush also endorsed funding for a total of
$250 million dollars for research on adult
and animal stem cells
You do realise there a difference between embryonic, adult and animal stem cells, do you not?
All you need is the embilical cord. There are lots of babies born that you can get these from. They’re not killing babies,thats an urban legend.
What part of the statement “To this date there have been zero successful treatments developed using embryonic stem cells.” do you not get? Embryonic stem cell research is a dead end. Period. Waste of time. Period. A fantasy based on a Star Trek mentality and the “I wanna live forever cause there ain’t no god and I’m afraid to die” crowd.
Embryonic stem cells are programmed to do one thing and one thing only. Make Embryo’s. Don’t argue with it, PROVE ME WRONG. In doing so you will become the richest person in the universe.
Of course you still have to get over the little problem of “tumors”.
Updated: 11:36 a.m. ET Oct. 23, 2006
“But the grafted cells started to show areas that no longer consisted of dopamine-releasing neurons, but of dividing cells that had the potential to give rise to tumors.
The researchers killed the animals before they could know for sure, and said any experiments in humans would have to be done very cautiously.
Scientists have long feared that human embryonic stem cells could turn into tumors, because of their pliability”
“pliability” indeed!
ok4ua if you have a problem with the story take it up with the bbc, they wrote it.