There’s a problem that arises when you parse your words carefully to avoid saying what you’re saying…
“You have to be able to say that I did not make a deal. That’s very important. That’s why these kinds of deals are not made in that fashion.” – Ujjal Dosanjh
… you often end up saying it anyway.
Oh come on. If Ujjal gets fired, he’ll come back to BC. We’d rather he just stayed in Ottawa.
Kakola,
No deal.
Are you taping this ?
This reminds me so much of Bill Clinton’s parsing of what is ‘is’.
The liberals made a ‘deal to make a deal’ so they could claim they didn’t make a deal.
Maybe Dosanjh can score a job at CFRA…he has a wonderfully clear voice on Microphone.
This reminds me so much of Bill Clinton’s parsing of what is ‘is’.
Not only that, it also strikes me as a nice inversion of gool ol’ Chretin’s “da proof is da proof” bit. Say what you will about that simple-minded, venal old operator, but at least you had some sense of where he stood…
This whole affair and how it is being handled by the press in particular is just another of the disgusting displays of excuses the media make for these vermin. Dosanj sure doesn’t belong in Ottawa in a cabinet position, so kick his ass back here any ole time. We knew how to take care of him when he was NDP Premier for a very short time. And was AG under Clark …. what sick deal did they make with HIM to drag his sorry ass to Ottawa? We thought it was good riddance.
But, when you let kids play with matches see what you get!?- Let’s take the matches away from this bunch of scum before they blow up the whole country and our freedom with it.
Wouldn’t we look pretty crawling on our hands and knees to those “damned Americans” as that trash Parrish was quoted as saying. Actually , the whole country heard her say it right outside the House of Commons.
Common she may be but that way WAY over the line.
The entire liberal party has been way over the line for a number of years.
Time for all our Rip Van Winkles to wake up and take back what they have lost this last decade of decadence.
I missed all the excitement yesterday. Wow. It was nice of Paul Wells to jump in and browbeat Kate’s visitors over their spelling and their errors in detail as to the timing of public accounts committees and so on. One would assume that he was correct on every point of fact, but his boasting about his resume and his bullying ad hominem broadsides should not deter anyone from forgetting that his column was simply mentioned in passing as just another example of a consistent bias in the media.
In the last few days you can feel the tide turning. It is becoming more widely acknowledged that the PMO has been flushed out into the open. The only way that such a dissembling bunch could ever have been caught is with hard evidence; without the tape, no one would believe that the conversations occurred. But now that there IS hard evidence, some in the media still somehow consider it a matter of equal importance that the CPC has not been “handling” the tape in a proper fashion. Paul Wells for one wrote that in light of these “gravest possible accusations against the Prime Minister’s chief of staff” they should release the rest of the tape. I think so too; presumably the other, unheard parts will turn Murphy’s words into a discussion about baking cookies.
But here’s what’s baffling: If Wells heard the tape, and we’d all better assume that he has, how could he apply the words “gravest possible accusation” to anything Harper or the CPC has said? If the tape didn’t exist, maybe, or if there was a chance that it was Rich Little’s voice; but right now Harper, the CPC, the Montreal Gazette and an increasing number of others (notably excluding the CBC) are just NOTICING something as apparent as the doorknob on the PMO.
No amount of bloated rank-pulling can trump common sense, but the campaign itself sure has been noteworthy.
Don’t look away from Tapes galore, but another 450 million passed to Quebec’s Bombardiere.
Airlines are operating close to the wire and one recently went bust.
This is clearly a make – work project. The margin required to allow any profit is simply not there.
It’s just too tiresome to mention all the previous gifts and to look into ROI.
Possibly, Sue, or another expert researcher can give us a thumbnail of Bombardiere grants, sales, margins and net gains for Canada. Net gains? I mean margin below break-even. 73s TonyGuitar
Tipping point, tipping point.
To anyone with half a brain, it was looking pretty obvious the Liberals were talking themselves into a corner yesterday. Watching their verbal gymnastics is quite a show.
The sad thing is, while some people are starting to notice the rotten stench coming from the Liberal benches, most Canadians still don’t care. They aren’t watching. They haven’t noticed. Given them a pretty sound-bite with the Liberals saying all is well with the world and Canadians will tsk and comment on that crazy bunch of conservatives. As long as it doesn’t affect them directly at that very moment, they don’t care.
And God forbid they should have to dirty their hands and, like, vote or something!
Just how bad do the Liberals have to get before Canadians will stop voting for them?
Do we have to catch Paul Martin in bed with a boy? … a goat?… a good Christian girl? before people say “I just can’t vote Liberal any more?
Wasting our hard earned dollars, (HRDC, duck gun registry, seaking helicopters) doesn’t do it.
Stealing our hard earned dollars, (GroupAction, AdScam) doesn’t do it.
At what point should we in the west just give up and leave and start a new country by ourselves?
If these Liberals don’t smarten up, or get kicked out on their corrupt butts, then that time is coming much sooner than I thought.
Jim Pook asked:
“At what point should we in the west just give up and leave and start a new country by ourselves?”
First we have to toss the closet Liberal Klein out of office, and make sure that Jim Dinning doesn’t succeed him.
Second, we have to persuade at least some BC pols to come onside.
Then:
“With all due speed”!
PB, Calgary
Notice that Martin won’t fire Dosanjh or Murphy. Why not? Because they were acting with his knowledge. He can’t fire them because if he did, they would inform the media that they were acting with Martin’s knowledge.
So-the tactic is denial of other realities. Deny that his people were actively engaged in trying to get MPs to either abstain or cross the floor.
Try to say that the ‘other guy’ originated the action. But – this doesn’t clarify why the Liberal people didn’t tell Grewal, IF he asked for a benefit – to ‘go to hell’. So, it’s a weak tactic. The Libs are moving to a second tactic.
I’d point out that either action was a violation of the electorates rights to representation by their MP, as their MP – not as a pawn of the opposite political party. No-one should do the specific bidding of a party to which they were not elected. If they reject their own party, they must sit as an independent and then, go back to their electorate.
The second tactic is to state that the tapes were altered. Proof? It would take weeks. So, it’s a more useful tactic than the first one. The first one has that flaw, that the Murphy and Dosanjh don’t tell Grewal to ‘get lost’. This one, that ‘the words’ aren’t right..is more useful because it can’t be at the moment, proven or disproven.
They also tried a version of this, by saying that the words weren’t ‘translated’ correctly. That has been disproven.
So- they’ll use the ‘the tapes were altered’ tactic because testing of this takes longer.
Remember, this is our government, that is acting in this criminal manner. When will Ontario wake up and get beyond the MSM?
Excellent EBD, Rounding out the picture as to how it looks to Canada Central for us out here on the POcean. Rest of tape swithching the true meaning to baking cookies. Ha!.
This adds real weight to the already overstressed support beams protecting the Libscammers.
The beams are going to give way soon. Canadians are inactive? apathetic? slow to anger? absorbed in the X-Box? Mistified?
Looking forward to Gov. Gen. Clarksen, on TV, announcing the dissolution of parliament due to lack of public confidence.
Let’s get the nasty cleared up so we can sideline diversions like SSM and get back to the important business of Canada, like Bullet proof Whistle-Blower Protection law.
Like individual Ministry and dapartmental Accounts and audits law. Martin promised this one during his Grovel CBCTV speech. As a revenues losses expert, he knows what it takes to stop the leakage.
These and other measures can be enacted to secure revenues are secure, no matter what party holds office in the commons.
73s TonyGuitar
Tony Guitar – so- you think that G-G will announce that the parl’t is dissolved? No way. She wants that G-G position for another term if not for life. She’s completely ‘in’ with that Liberal gang, and will do nothing against them, because it would harm her own agenda.
I predict, cynic that I am, that the Liberals will maintain their new version – that the ‘tapes were altered’..and simply wait for the summer recess.
Then, Martin will talk about how IF there was any wrongdoing, you’d be sure I would have fired Murphy”. Sure. He can’t fire him, because then Murphy would retaliate by telling the truth – that Martin was ‘in the loop’ and knew what was going on. But, Martin will say that. Just watch him.
The media will talk about the corruption of the CPC- ‘how dare they tape a discussion’; they’ll talk about Grewal’s faults..etc.etc.
The Liberals have only one agenda, and when one thinks of anything – this agenda has to be put at the top: Stay in Power. By any means. Stay in Power.
The following 2 statements is not intended to be bigotry in any way.
Don’t you know most Urban Ontarians don’t listen to MSM. They are too busy holding down 2-3 jobs to pay the thousand dollar plus rent on their run down 2 bedroom appartments or don’t understand english yet.
Liberal party policy according to Seinfeld:
Jerry Seinfeld: George you have to help me beat this lie detector, what’s your secret?
George Costanza: Jerry – its not a lie if you believe it.
Roger – a lot of the Ontarians who vote Liberal are upper middle class – the ones with the SUVs, summer cottages, large condos etc. They do indeed get their news from the MSM. Most don’t read analytic articles of any type, don’t read analytic books. They vote – Liberal.
Other Liberalites – people without a firm ideology of any kind. They aren’t socialist so don’t vote NDP; they aren’t genuine liberals so don’t vote CPC. They have NO ideology, no thoughts about ‘what is a good gov’t; what is a good political system’. There are LOTS, LOTS of people in Ontario like this. Their focus is on their personal life…and politics is a bore and an intrusion. They vote Liberal,just as they’ll order popcorn and a coke at the movie. Just because that’s what you do.
The NDP crowd are equally well off, but have different agendas: renovation of downtown homes, vacations canoing/mountain-biking (the env’t!), gourmet foods, lots of reading..left reading.
The ones who hold the several jobs for their 2-bedroom apartments – which would be at least 1,500 and up – well, some might vote Liberal, others NDP if the candidate gets to talk with them, but many don’t vote at all. It’s too confusing and they don’t have the time.
People who vote for the CPC, in Ontario, are fewer, because it requires moving out of the mindset of the above Liberals – either well off or utterly indifferent to politics. It requires that you make a specific choice; you have to take an action. Most of these people won’t take any action. It’s very unCanadian to take an action or to make a decision. We don’t like people who do (ie, the Americans); we don’t do anything on our own. The UN has to tell us, or, we will join a group…but…we don’t make our own decisions.
I’m more cynical by the day – but the rhetoric from Ottawa is unreal. The Libs will say anthing and do anything – to retain power. This latest – that the tapes are not translated correctly (Dosanjh shut up when told that the G&M had their own translation and the tapes WERE correct)has been changed to…the tapes have been physically tampered with. Proof? Who cares.
The Libs will say and do anything. Power.
I liked the part about the RCMP being cautious about political investigations. Talk about timid understatement. Ineffective, maybe. Incapable, yep. Incompetent, affirmative. In the PM’s pocket – naw. Everything else here in Canada is corrupted by the Liberals, but not the RCMP. I just won’t believe it. Although they did carry out a Stalinesque raid on the former president of the BDC when Chretien was in charge. Kinda makes you think eh?
Yes ET, you make valid points. No matter how the murkey details of the Grewal tape happen to work out, the profound damage to the Libs has been done. The weight has been added.
It will be the teeth firmly planted much earlier in the Libs heel that will bring them down. Those officers in the Libs army who are coming clean to reduce their sentences. They provide the links to Cretien and Martin.
Our thin ice area now is the unknown extent to which judges are loyal either to justice or the liberal club.
There comes a time when public outcry becomes too much for the MSM to ignore.
The Gov. gen. can be moved before slow moving courts reach decisions.
Letters of demand to the Gov. Gen. are helpful there also.
73s TonyGuitar
So Dosanjh claims to have a couple of experts who can verify that the tapes were doctered. I wonder if these were the same “experts” Dan Rather and co. used for the forged Bush documents?! Also I wonder if Paul Wells will now write an article questioning why it is taking so long for Dosanjh and Paul Martin to produce their so called experts. Don’t hold your breath.
All evidence suggests that the “experts” Dosanjh is relying on are a couple of producers at CFRA here in Ottawa, who were looking at WAV files they seem to have created themselves from the MP3s, and who clearly admit that they don’t have a clue what they’re doing when it comes to forensic analysis.
Does anyone even _know_ if the original recording was analog or digital? How the MP3s were created?
There are plenty of possible explanations for what the CFRA producers claim to see. There aren’t enough facts yet available to draw any conclusions.
But the Libs still haven’t explained how their statements, even if removed from any other context, add up to a “No”.
Grewal tapes altered: audio expert
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=6217a514-ed81-4a98-97c4-e5747d83c340
Apparently, “one of Canada’s top audio experts sas controversial taped conversations…have been altered.”
What I don’t understand, is that the segment he “analysed” had a “zero-signal gap” of 0.3 seconds. All this suggests is that a portion of the conversation could have been omitted. So freakin’ what. Nothing suggests that Dosanjh didn’t say what was recorded on the tape…unless the omitted part stated something like: “About everything I just said, I’m just kidding.”
While I personally am certainly not technically knowledgible enough to form any opinion on whether the Grewal tapes have been altered, I do know that there are people who CAN nail this down. This should not be a matter for speculation – it is “knowable”. Don’t you think the CPC also knows this? Does this lead anyone to reconsider why they waited so long to release the tapes? is it only just possible they may already have had the tapes checked?
In terms of Liberal assertions that the tapes have been altered,this is what – the third version? I’m losing track – of some attempt to deny what the tapes say. In view of all that has gone on, Liberal credibility is at a rather low ebb right now. Please understand that I am not saying the tapes haven’t been altered – we’re going to have to wait to find that out – what I am saying is that this doesn’t pass the smell test in the big picture of what’s going on. Not that THAT is always the final determiner of truth!
I have to bring this up, it is laughable that CFRA should run a poll on it’s web page asking the listeners who they believe, the Libranos or the Conservatives regarding the tapes, as if the listeners are all experts in technology, they have heard, and analized the originals, and therefor qualified to make an “informed” decision. Having that poll in Librano “Ontario” is only adding insult to injury and they do this kind of stunt all the time. The only one I can trust for the truth at CFRA is Lorne Green, and he did not conduct the poll, sounds like something management would do, I have had more than one fight with them and they quit trying to debate with me they lose everytime. The other of the MSM’s do the same thing, un informed un educated voters to make a choice on something they know nothing about, but being good Librano’s they all of a sudden become “experts” This is sickening behavior, and it won;’t stop. The sad ting is they “use” these phoney polls and turn it into “headline news.” Like asking a family of 4 “do you love your Mother?”
If you are going to the trouble of faking something, would you not want to make the evidence damning. I would expect a fake tape to have Ujjal Dosanjh saying “and I’ll give you a cabinet post, and a senate seat, and money, and a big car and a pony and a……”
If Grewal was using a newer digital recorder with powersaving and memorysaving features where the recording stops and starts after a few seconds of silence, it will sound like the recording is spliced.
See the Walkabout 5210 Digital Voice Recorder specs:
http://www.keysan.com/ksu1671.htm
Did anyone see Dart Ujjall yesterday in the House. Most people have completly construed what happened when he refered to Mckay’s dog. He made a lukewarm political comment about how Mckay used his old man’s dog for a photo op. The the predictible aspect is that most MP’s didn’t laugh or do anything. A few liberals laughed…HARD. They thought he was making refrence to Belinda(obiously). I guess Darth underestimated his own idiocy.