30 Replies to “Y2Kyoto: I Miss The Polar Ice Caps”

  2. The arctic ice cap stops decreasing in total area about mid-August, and starts increasing in October. So this is about it.
    Having said that, the ice cap is still smaller than the average for the last few decades.

  3. so obama was right. this is the moment when the planet starts to heal.
    is there nothing obama cant do

  5. Yes it is lower than average but this non stop trend is just not happening. The only way you can explain it and hold onto to the AGW theory is that this is noise around the trend.
    As soon as you do that then you have to consider the idea that there may be a larger natural trend that manamade effects (warming or cooling) ride on top of. This is a significant change from how AGW has been sold, to its detriment.
    Manamade CO2 may be contributing, the amount it is contributing has to be sorted out….the point is they don’t know yet. Making serious and significant policy decisions based on the unknown in not smart policy or smart science. Comes closer to throwing virgins in the volcano than it does to proper policy.

  6. It seems ALL of our politicians are on board with some type of Carbon tax regardless of stripe. This up coming betrayal of the west from OUR Conservatives is quite disheartening.

  8. what the MSM fails to tell people is that the antarctic is increasing in volume. the difference between north and south can be explained by the wobble in the earth’s orbit. one big difference is that the grounded south icecap changes sealevel and the floating northern cap makes no difference to sealevel. not one iota. but journalists dont understand physics. they are not rocket surgeons.

  11. Where is that maroon who was a around here a few weeks ago, screaming about how there was a better than 50% chance that all the ice would melt, that we would all have to eat our hats?
    I bet you that there is a 0% chance that he will ever eat his.

  12. And along comes Richard Littlemore (or less) and claims (a few days ago in Roy Green radio debate) that arctic ice loss, the last couple of years, has been catastrophic.
    The same, I believe, Little Richard who is a senior editor at Suzuki’s deSmog blog.
    And the same, I believe, guy who wrote the educational “information” package on global warming for our public schools.
    The same Richard, who lost(badly) the debate with the Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, as even many of it’s own commenters at deSmog claimed.
    Even supporters we’re grasping: “Richard, you’ve got to show them you’ve got more than insults.”
    http://www.desmogblog.com/monckton-vs-littlemore-debate-airs-noon-pdt

  13. But… But… Most of that area is covered in irrelevant thin single year ice. It’s just *itching* to melt. I can *feel* it.

  14. I have a theory, This year, the Canadian prairies have experienced a lot of hailstorms. What do you need to create hail?? A cold arctic air mass that collides with hot “soutthern air.” (Most of the air from the south is hot–but that`s another topic for another time.)
    Anyway..I believe that the massive ice fields and cooler arctic temperatures are the cause of so much hail this year. Why is Environment Canada not going on the air with their buddues at CBC and dicussing these topics?? Instead of worrying about how many cats are getting fried at the olympics in China!! (Now you knwo why Harper didn` got attend.) .

  15. PS; Re: Fried cats. That last line should read: Now you know why why Harper didn`t attend.

  17. The whole debate is so boring. The warmies make excuses, the skeptics keep asking the same questions, which the warmies refuse to answer. Or they answer with excuses, half truths, and rhetoric. You would think one of those 2500 scientists would have a minute to answer just a few concerns, but no. It is almost as if the fate of the planet weren’t at stake.

  18. Inconvenient truth.
    Inconvenient for the Big Liars, like Al Gore and the IPCC, that is, and all others who stand to profit from it all, while really not believing it, and this includes Al Gore himself, for he KNOWS he’s lying to us. Yes, he knows he’s a liar, a fraud artist, a money-mad crook. He should be thrown in jail.
    And guess what? He’ll get away with it. Even after everyone realizes that it’s all a big pile of B.S.
    And he’ll probably be a billionaire by then…

  19. Kevin thats why I bet scruffy dan 100 bucks to my 20.
    the world ending has been delayed Winnipeg did not get as hot as Minneapolis. And have everyone die.

  20. all the global warming jerks better pray to hell it does get warm because if it gets cold, with the price of fuel as high as it is, there will be a revolution. we will be burning a hell of a lot more than oil to stay alive.

  22. the most sensetive barometer there is to indicate Gorebullwarming, and it ain’t playing by the rules.
    is the artics melt is less than 2007, it would appear to be a reverse, and as it is more sensetive than any other area, it is the last to react to a reversal,
    sure makes one go Hhmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

  25. “The whole debate is so boring. The warmies make excuses, the skeptics keep asking the same questions, which the warmies refuse to answer. Or they answer with excuses, half truths, and rhetoric. You would think one of those 2500 scientists would have a minute to answer just a few concerns, but no. It is almost as if the fate of the planet weren’t at stake.”
    Ditto
    Tim
    I have noticed that most of the discussions we have suffer from this same condition. I don’t have nearly as much fun regurgitating the same stuff as I did last year. Thank goodness the NFL is starting soon!

  26. ” The past five years all look pretty similar:
    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/sea_ice_the_stretch_run/ ”
    This is a bit more visually separable —
    http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm
    Note that this year’s maximum was higher than any year since 2002-3 —
    because there was so little snow, first-year ice became thicker than usual.
    But even thick first-year ice melts faster than perennial ice — it’s more salty & wind breaks it up more easily.
    And one can see that as much ice has melted this year as last [2008 starting from a greater extent], and just now it is melting faster than last year at this time.

  27. What are you saying Dizzy, the ice is thicker than usual, OK got that. But thick ice melts faster, no don’t get that. Ice is “saltier”, no that contradicts physics no matter what you want to believe – “While freezing, water rejects its salt content (leaving pure ice). The remaining surface water, made dense by the extra salinity, sinks, leading to the productions of dense water masses such as Antarctic Bottom Water. This production of dense water is a factor in maintaining the thermohaline circulation, and the accurate representation of these processes is an additional difficulty to climate modelling.”
    The whole post was about how the ice has not melted this year as many, including you seemingly, had predicted. In fact, even though you can see it hasn’t melted, you state that it has… A very puzzling post, you should check your medication…

  28. “But thick ice melts faster, no don’t get that.”
    Didn’t say that. Check your specs.
    “While freezing, water rejects its salt content (leaving pure ice). ”
    Salt is trapped in the ice and migrates out. So to repeat, new sea ice is salty, perennial ice is not.
    The rest is bloviation.

  29. Dizzy, Dizzy, really you should have concentrated more on the sciences in high school instead of the arts. The salt is rejected during the freezing process, it doesn’t migrate out, you are just making stuff up aren’t you.
    You said “But even thick first-year ice melts faster than perennial ice — it’s more salty & wind breaks it up more easily.”
    A little research would have saved you from having this BS recorded for posterity, any bloviating is on your part I am afraid.
    Check on the University of Illinois web site for the Daily Arctic Sea Ice Charts and see what the melt actually is, here is a link to help you out;
    http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=08&fd=21&fy=2007&sm=08&sd=20&sy=2008
    I compared the same day last year to this year, today in fact. There is no way you can say the ice has melted faster with those charts staring you in the face.
    Another interesting bit is that the NorthWest Passage isn’t open and it looks like it won’t this year although the 1903 Amundsen route did open up, much too shallow for any modern ships though. So we are on par with 1903 for navigation of the Artic, even Siberia isn’t looking good.
    I suspect you have never sailed in the Artic, I have. I have retrieved ice from Ice Bergs to use as ice cubes and can tell you it isn’t salty at all.

  30. ” The salt is rejected during the freezing process, it doesn’t migrate out, you are just making stuff up aren’t you. ”
    You appear to be using words like “physics” & “rejected” as some sort of incantation.
    When water freezes it forms a molecular structure which doesn’t include salt ions. So salt is “rejected” on a molecular level.
    What happens is that the salt is trapped WITHIN the forming ice — these “brine cells” are distributed throughout the new ice and make up about 1/3 of the original salt.
    When the next summer comes the brine cells begin to connect and migrate or leach down through the ice — these are called brine channels.
    Pools of melted water at the top contact these channels and flow down through them — flushing the salt out, and leaving the ice full of interconnected pores.
    It’s weaker then, but IF all the ice doesn’t melt, the next year’s ice has much lower salt content — it is now perennial ice & and much stronger.
    That’s why “first-year ice melts faster than perennial ice ” — a truism really — and your chart, which shows total coverage, doesn’t deny that.
    If you go back to my first post, and re-read it with the chart I linked to in front of you, you will see that what I said simply describes the features of the graph, features that “stare you in the face” in your words. [ Here’s a hint, the SLOPE records speed of melting ]
    Incidently, you wouldn’t want to walk around that highly predominant red/yellow area of this year’s image.
    See this article — it includes pictures of brine cells & channels and a good discussion of ice formation
    http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/essay_wadhams.html
    ” I suspect you have never sailed in the Artic, I have. I have retrieved ice from Ice Bergs to use as ice cubes and can tell you it isn’t salty at all. ”
    Ah the old “I was there, so I know” routine.
    I hope you are not suggesting that “ice from Ice Bergs” is new ice.
    Since you are an old arctice hand, I presume you have read “The Friendly Arctic”? Stefansson is quite funny about all those British explorers conserving their fresh water while natives from Newfoundland to Alaska knew that fresh water is readily available from multi-year ice.

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