Down The Primrose Path

Art Of The Deal Ukraine 94 Comments

And now, for the rest of the story.

I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.

When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That’s not what happened.

You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn’t attack Zelensky and wasn’t even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.

In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always “we’ll see.” Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.

For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would’ve signed a deal.

The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn’t get us anywhere.

The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.

Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.

I’ve been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don’t see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.

You know it’s bad, when Senator Lindsay Graham has bailed.

He did look mad. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has terminated U.S. support for restoring Ukraine’s energy grid immediately after Zelensky was kicked out of the White House.

Read this, too:

Zelinsky tried to “pre-suade” POTUS (“you will feel it in the future,”), which POTUS immediately recognized and pushed back on, HARD.

Neurolinguistic jousting with the master. Didn’t go well.

Full length video is here.

94 Replies to “Down The Primrose Path”

    1. Right on cue. The corrupt bought-and-paid-for Kanadian legacy media is already chanting the “Orange Man Bad” mantra. NP says evil Trump expects Zelensky to play nice with evil Putin. And these a$$holes wondered why I cancelled my subscriptions.

      1. “The war we are losing was not provoked. What we have is literally Hitler Trump is conspiring with literally Hitler Putin to do Hitler things”
        ~ retarded Canadian media

        1. For the Ukraine warmongers, there was no history before 2022, no genocide of the Russian peoples in eastern oblasts, nope, nope, nope, they were peace loving Genocidists.
          The feral warmongers want 5Million, 10Million dead, all of Europe dead. They also think that nuclear war is asinine to even discuss.
          Idiots. The world is full of these virtue signallers. All of them need to fly over there, pick up their pop guns and go LARP. Or STFU.
          Z got FAFOd today!

  2. Fair assessment. I’m like most here, it needs to end and I have no dog in this but this ‘democracy’ BS is BS.
    What I see happening now is US will stop supporting NATO as the EU will ramp up anti-US rhetoric, and I’m O.K. with it. All because of a stupid man from Ukraine and delusional ‘liberal’ westerners. Seriously folks, get a grip.
    Have at it.

    1. The US does not need to have troops in Europe.

      Nor does the U.S. need to have 750 military bases outside the US.

      1. the U.S. should remove all troops out of any territory that is not the U.S. and at the same time restrict any immigration that is contrary to freedom. That would eliminate all of the terrorists from the middle east

  3. Most embarrassing moment in living US political history. Total disgrace that left no doubt as to who Trump’s master is. Of course you people love that, don’t you

    1. Statistically, every day someone makes the dumbest comment on the internet that day. This comment is a contender for today. Saying we should talk tough to/about Putin for show, which has failed for 3 years, is what makes this comment a contender. Congratulations!

      1. I have no doubt that each one of you losers would orally pleasure Putin given half a chance. But the question is why? Are you guys suicidal? Or just real slow?

        1. Sure Karen, sure. Any other childish rants to add?
          Zelensky got schooled, slapped and banished today, for being an ungrateful stooge.
          Like many here, I DON’T CARE, its not our fight. And, no, Putin isn’t “marching on Europe”.
          HORSE HOCKEY.

        3. gym! Is that you?
          If not, that post is giving gym a run for his money as being the most hateful troll on SDA.

        4. In case you haven’t noticed Canada is in the process of accidently or deliberately hanging itself in the coming weeks.
          Putin LOL .
          And Trump didn’t make the noose , we did it ourselves.
          Canadians where the best when we could be s–t grinning righteous a–holes as well as being nice.
          Who knew being a Post National state carried so much dead weight.
          I have some pretty good edibles , but none that can put me back in the late 70s or 80s. A time where I think you and others here find safety and contentment.
          History is being made here , real history and the victors are the ones that win contentment.
          Insults don’t change a thing.

    2. ((Total disgrace that left no doubt as to who Trump’s master is.))

      ________________________________

      Yup, his voters. Those same voters who watched as $385 Billion absconded to Ukraine, and hurricane victims in NC and TN got tossed out of temporary housing due to lack of funds.

      BTW…on Lindsey Graham. He does this every single time. He just started up his re-election campaign this month for 2026 with another RINO (Tim Scott) chairing his campaign committee. He’ll play act the role of conservative for the next year and a half to get that all important Trump endorsement. Especially on stuff like this (which reflects the attitude of the SC voters). Then, upon being re-elected resort to his old chicken hawk armchair warrior mode.

        1. Unfortunately the $385 billion is about $300 billion more than the US actually pad, and most of it was worn out equipment. A lot of countries are likely avoiding alliances with the US. They’ve gone chickenshit under Trump.

          1. The US’s worn out equipment would be a 5 generation upgrade for Canada, of course it doesn’t take much to arm our 2,500 man army.

    3. Don’t worry snowflake, your beloved WEF masters will direct the Turd and the Carnage to force Kanada to make up the shortfall.
      How does one like you get paid to hide in safe spaces?

    4. Trudeau fan boys would have a “feminist” take. Ukraine’s parliament is getting ready for a special session to impeach Zelensky.

    5. Nothing like that appearance ever happens without a deal already in hand. Zelensky thought he could get in front of the press and renegotiate and Trump would back down because of optics. Who the f### does he think he was dealing with? FAFO.

  4. When Joolinskyy is the topic, nutbars come out of the woodwork in droves. Some fail to grasp the concept of PROXY war.

    1. Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but gym’s attempt at subtlety went right over my head, and yes, I know I’m stepping on a land mine here, but I don’t care. It’s gym, after all… Take it away, gymbo…

  5. I think it’s again Art of the Deal applied at Ukraine war. It was the easiest/fastest way for Trump to end US involvement:
    He doesn’t want US in a war at Russia’s doorstep. It’s far away, it’s costly and it’s not for US to decide who’s good and who’s bad.
    Yes, Russia invaded etc. But Ukraine was always in federation/in-bed with Russia. For how long – 1000 years
    Meanwhile US provided resources/$s and now mr Z is emo, and in Oval Office. Nope.

    Yes, it was ugly&messy. But if anyone prefers aristocratic dinners and nice word-salads, they can always tune to EU media.

  6. Is Zelensky the Trudeau of Ukraine or is Trudeau the Zelensky of Canada?

    I could just see Trudeau trying to pull this same sort of sh*t in the Oval Office. Just minutes away from the best free trade deal in history, Trudeau goes full Zelensky with “Can I ask you? Yeah? OK…”

      1. Personally, I’d like to see Trump or Vance slap Trudeau silly. But I don’t think either of them would hit a little girl.

        1. You say that like Trudeau couldn’t beat the ever living shit out of Vance and Trump the same way he beat the shit out of Brazeau in the ring.

          Let’s be real, Trudeau could physically end those fat soft weaklings without breaking a sweat. I guess that’s why you can’t stop thinking about him you little closet case

          1. Ummm, Vance was a marine and served in the middle east, not so sure about that. Trudeau did win a headgear match against a drunken drug abuser, its a fact.

          2. Ben that was twelve years ago…PMJT is that fat, soft weakling now. Check his doughy paunch and visage as of late.

            Trump would go Viet Cong Express on his azz…for fourty five minutes.

          4. Umm, homoerotic fantasies going on there Ben Bassareb? Get real. He ‘s a 50 something who dyes his hair three shades darker than Xi Ping.

          6. Well… no need for me to add to this gang-bang (oops… I’m starting to sound like gym).
            Seriously BBSV? When you said that the turd can take on JD Vance, I nearly had a lipshitz ROFL-ing all over the place.
            How can anyone take you seriously after a post like that?

    2. Zelensky is an entertainer and businessman who ran for president as part of a publicity stunt, and won, for no better reason than that he had built a business and made money by doing something other than steal it.

      He was in over his head from the start, and he may go down in history as the man who led his country into history’s dustbin.

      In other words, he’s exactly what the know-it-alls think Trump is.

      The difference is that the know-it-alls can’t, or won’t, see what’s right in front of them, no matter how obvious it becomes.

      The worst mistake Trump will make is to fire a few competent people by mistake. They can be hired back.

      Zelensky’s worst mistake was thinking “Ukraine” could defeat Russia in a land war, something beyond even Napoleon and Hitler. He will fail. And the damage he will do trying will be as irreparable as it is incalculable.

  7. If Trump is going to negotiate with Putin, he needs to be respectful.

    It does not matter if he does not like Putin. It does not matter if he hates Putin.

    Putin is in a position to give Trump what he wants, particularly an end to this war. If he calls Putin names, mocks him, and criticizes him, Putin will not make any deal. If he threatens Putin, no deal. Trump treats rival leaders with respect because it gives him an advantage.

    If you’re not respectful, you get less, or maybe nothing. For example, Zelenskyy is currently getting nothing. In the next round, if there is one, any deal that is struck will be less beneficial and more costly than what he could have had today.

    1. But, but, but … the EU has declared homophobe Putin as “immoral” … and on the “wrong side of LGBTQueer history”. The old … “if you knew what Hitler was going to do when he was 20yo … the moral thing to do is to murder him”. It’s the same argument being used to push transgender neutering of children … that the Doctors are only trying to save children from suicide”.

      I know exactly which side of their moral relevancy I come down on. And if that happens to side with Putin… so be it.

      Yes, if the 2020 American presidential election wasn’t stolen … there wouldn’t have been a million deaths in Ukraine and and half a $ Trillion in treasure dumped down a rathole. And if Dr. Fauxci hadn’t developed and released a novel viral bioweapon to destroy the Trump prosperity train … millions of people wouldn’t have died.

      The crazed Left … the TDS Left … are extremely dangerous people … who look at human beings as expendable in their war against humanity. In their war to establish a leftist bureaucracy in charge of the entire world.

      1. How much money to EU elites was/is being laundered through Ukraine? For that matter, how many U.S. elites have done the same? They will get their money, and their power — the EU, and Canada, will use this as an excuse to wring more money and take away more freedoms from their own citizens. They will not care how many Ukrainians die in this endeavor; they will not care if others die as well. For that matter, there are likely some Russian elites doing the same thing, and not caring what happens to their country or their countrymen in the process. And all of them are very assured of their own safety; they have their little bolt holes to take shelter in. That was always the plan.

        But perhaps they are wrong in their assumptions; they may be feeling a bit wobbly right now. Be prepared for more of their stupidity and evil in the coming weeks/months.

    2. The meeting was fine, until Zelensky started to lecture Trump and Vance and propagandize. They were having none of it.
      The little cokehead was put in his place forthwith.
      Oh, and he called Vance a b*tch in Uke lingo. Completely disrespectful.
      Tossed out of the WH like the garbage he is, without lunch to boot.
      He. Had. No .Leverage.

  8. The last couple days we have seen Mr. Trump having discussions, in front of the cameras, with both British and Ukrainian leaders, and who knows who all else.
    Of course the media loves Trump because he is a machine at providing them easy free content, but since when is it appropriate to have these discussions in public? Only Mr. Trump’s extreme narcissism can explain why he needs to be in front of a camera every day, instead of being business-like and diplomatic. Agreements, once worked out, can be announced to the public once they happen. This is a clown show.

    1. I have to disagree. We’ve had far too many years of secret deals, plans and projects. To what end? Money thrown away, lives lost and negative effects in our country. Open agreements arrived at openly. This is called transparency and is a very welcome change.

    2. Oh, the humanity, taxpayers getting to see what they are paying for. Of course this would bother Canadians, too childish to handle it, just need mommy government to take care of it and then tell them how much they owe.

    3. That’s fine, you think leaders should keep their interactions with other leaders hidden from the citizens they were voted in to represent, and that allowing them to see such conversations is “inappropriate.” Personally, I think the rotten root of the government-bloated west starts, and maybe stops, with that very backroom dealing approach that you’re calling for, but you’re entitled to your opinion.

      Richard Hanania’s description of the 40 minute public discussion/interaction that occurred before the 5 minute-ish video that most people have seen — I guess that short video is the “easy free content” you’re referring to — does provides helpful context, as he suggests.

    4. This is the definition of the snooty Canadian take on what transpired. Transparency, like freedom, gives Canadians the vapors.

    5. Ms Turdhole
      By going full public, it deprives the LLLSM the chance to spin the news. So the truth will be seen by the public, which hasn’t happened much in the past.

    7. “Of course the media loves Trump because he is a machine at providing them easy free content, but since when is it appropriate to have these discussions in public”

      This was not the actual negotiations…those were already done.

      This was a Q & A session that included most of the major players; a press conference was scheduled for later with just the two Presidents.

    8. As far as Trump’s narcissism goes, I’ll just say that Z wasn’t exactly altruistic during this presser either.
      In fact, I’ll go even further and say that Z got exactly what he deserved.

    9. “but since when is it appropriate to have these discussions in public? ”

      What discussions? The negotiations were over and the deal was done. This was supposed to be a photo op\signing ceremony until the idiot Zelensky couldn’t control his childish impulses and started a useless, counter-productive argument with JD Vance because he took offense to Vance’s answer to a question posed by a Polish reporter. All Zelensky had to do was wear a suit, smile, say “thank you” and sign his name. That’s ALL. He couldn’t do it…not even with the future of his country at stake.

  9. We should never have been involved in this war. European continent, European problem. Time for the Marshall Plan to end.

    1. Seriously? If that’s true, if someone who has extracted $180+ billion dollars from another nation calls the VP of that nation a bitch while asking for, or demanding, even more money, that would be unwise.

        2. Let’s not overreact. I’ve listened to that part of the video several times, and all I can say for sure was that Z muttered something, but it was inaudible as far as I could tell. It could have been “sooka,” but I can’t be sure.
          You will need someone who specializes in analyzing audio to make that determination.

    2. Both Greater and Lesser Russians swear like sailors, and “suka” (сука) is most often a general-purpose obscenity with no specific meaning in context.

      In the moment, Zelensky most likely.meant “fuddle-duddle” or something. He’s not stupid, and knew he couldn’t afford to insult his hosts. That did not.mean it wasn’t an unprofessional and disrespectful thing to say, though, any more than when Pierre Trudeau muttered obscenity under his breath in the House of Commons.

      1. Profanity of any kind is always disrespectful.

        It means, I don’t consider you worthy of my respect.

        Notice Zelensky did not immediately apologize, as a respectful person would.

        Your Trudeau mention is false. Just say an obscenity under your breath to a grade school teacher.

  11. L – I think the short, petulant one just got put on the No Fly list and the no entry visa list, as of the moment he exits U.S. air space. Ukraine needs a new leader and fast. At this point the only country that might protect him
    based on his performance would be China.

  12. The Canadian Gov’t sent a few $ billion last week, is that still on? Has that check cleared? It appears to be money sent to a gov’t which doesn’t support peace, an odd thing for a gov’t which told the world for decades that they’re a nation of peacekeepers.

    Having partially public negotiations seems like a good arrangement. Sunlight, disinfectant, etc…

    I welcome PM Trudeau or his replacement negotiating with President Trump, on Tv
    It’ll be helpful to know what he’s willing to do to the western provinces while trying to save his eastern base and the eternal dairy tariffs.
    and knowing he’s thrown us under the bus, while he states point blank that we all “need to be on Team Canada”

    Are Canada’s conservative parties paying attention?
    I sense a slow boil of political sentiment in Alberta, while Pierre P still insists Canada is not for sale

    1. Then –

      “…If the prosecutor is not fired, you are not getting the money…”

      Now –

      “…If Zelenskyy is not fired, you are not getting the money…”

  13. Zelensky is hoping for colour re-election when he finally calls an election. You know like what’s happening in Canada.

    Victoria Neuland check your dms.

  14. And let me add … that if we had a functional Press … and a war that wasn’t being covered by the fog of CIA social media gaslighting … the First World War Reddit …

    Then we would have a Ukranian & Russian BODY COUNT … daily … on the evening news … with bells tolling for each life lost … starting as of noon today when Zelensky played tough guy and refused to sign the beginning of a Peace Deal.

    1. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna5933988

      Our media only carrreeeees about American war dead. They don’t give a shit about Ukranian dead boys … and certainly don’t give two shits about Russian dead.

      “Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.”

    1. Which is why Kanada will make up any shortfall that Zelensky suffered. This will end badly for Kanada.

      1. We can send menstrual pads for the infantry. We can assist Ukraine using a feminist perspective.

        1. Why not? They’re running out of men of fighting age, so they’re drafting seniors, boys, and yes, women to fight on the front lines.

    4. I think Ms. Joly would have been smart to keep her mouth shut. If this is a confrontation between the US and Ukraine, we cannot afford to side with the Ukes.

      1. Never forget, most Canadians are children, D’uh Joly included, Orange man bad makes them titter, and they can’t see past that.

    1. “Zelensky acts like a cokehead.”

      He really does. He has the impulse control of a teenager.

  17. I have never, ever been a fan of Zelensky. He is a corrupt little weasel. He finally met someone (Trump and Vance) who challenged his stupidity.

  18. From the NYT’s most conservative opinion columnist:

    // If Roosevelt had told Churchill to sue for peace on any terms with Adolf Hitler
    and to fork over Britain’s coal reserves to the United States in exchange for no American security guarantees,
    it might have approximated what Trump did to Zelensky.
    Whatever one might say about how Zelensky played his cards poorly —
    either by failing to behave with the degree of all-fours sycophancy that Trump demands
    or to maintain his composure in the face of JD Vance’s disingenuous provocations —
    this was a day of American infamy. //

    A Day of American Infamy
    By Bret Stephens Feb. 28, 2025

    2. Is there literally ANYTHING Trump does that doesn’t get described by invoking Hitler … you leftists … and leftists cloaked with conservative labels are so tiresome and devoid of ideas

      1. Is there literally ANYTHING Trump does that …”

        … you disagree with and criticized him for?

        /— crickets chirping —/

        2. Yes. I criticize Trump for agreeing to meet Zelensky after Zelensky dissed two prior attempts by Trump’s Cabinet members to sign this deal. Zelensky isn’t worthy of Trump’s valuable time.

          Zelensky can fly to Hollywood and cosplay the Ukranian Fidel Castro in his dirty sweatshirt.

    3. “or to maintain his composure in the face of JD Vance’s disingenuous provocations ”

      The whole thing went downhill after Vance responded to a question from a Polish reporter, and Zelensky didn’t like Vance’s answer. Nice try.

    4. dunatà dè hoi proúkhontes prássousi kaì hoi astheneîs xunkhōroûsin
      Since we’re into historical quotes; although, much like your own quote, it doesn’t have really much bearing on this situation. Nonetheless, when one has been prompted into taking on an extremely larger force, one with nuclear weapons no less, it might be advisable to consider my quote before yours and not stand on pride over pragmatism.
      Russia is notoriously aggressive; they are also notoriously paranoid — history and geography have made it so. While it’s a good idea to always be strong in the face of them, it’s never wise to poke them unnecessarily.
      Thank God Kamala didn’t win; Biden was enough of a misfortune.

  20. This from Konstantin Kisin:
    “My initial reaction to the Trump/Zelensky spat was based on the short clip. I’ve had a chance to watch the entire 53-minute press conference with Zelensky and Trump.
    It’s painful but I take back what I said earlier. Zelensky decided to attack Vance unnecessarily. He totally messed this up. Yes, Vance played to the gallery afterwards but he was also correct: litigating this stuff in front of the media was really dumb.
    Really poor from Zelensky – I hope he can see sense, apologise and get a deal for his country. This was not smart.”

    https://x.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1895610683103781075

    1. “It’s painful but I take back what I said earlier. Zelensky decided to attack Vance unnecessarily. He totally messed this up”

      Exactly…but as you said, you needed to watch the whole thing to see that. The MSM are doing their usual fine job of deliberately distorting the truth.

  21. Cocaine psychosis… Zalensky is a fool and a Globalist puppet.
    Go back to playing the piano with your dik, fool.

  22. When I see Lindsay Graham praising Trump and condemning Zielinski I know the fifth column just got hit. The mineral deal would secure victory for the authors of the color revolution.

    It’s funny to watch really. People all sucked in by the mineral deal as a good thing and a gateway to peace. Today Graham basically signs Zielinski’s death warrant and Trump removes the big flashy mineral deal eliminating two obstructions to a peace deal with Russia in one play. Ladies and gentlemen the globalists just got played, bigley.

  23. Been against zelensky from day one.
    This was predicted in the late 90’s.
    NATO expansion was and is insane.
    It should have been dissolved a month after the Berlin Wall came down.
    Long past time for Peace

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