53 Replies to “A Lot More”

  1. That $300 toaster will be slapped with a sticker ‘ engineered in California, made in China’. Just like all those $300 coffee pod machines that can’t even boil water.

  2. I don’t give a f#kk if the toaster costs $250, as long as I get to stop filling the coffers of the Chinese Communist Party and the Chinese Communist People so they can build up a war machine to totally destroy Western Civilization and turn the surviving Western people into slaves for the rest of time !!!!!

    1. china’s leaders always thinking long term. they have never dealt with pesky elections causing delays and interruptions re ‘who’s on first’

    2. Now don’t go screwing a good propaganda piece with facts!
      r (the magazine) seems to assume that everything starts from scratch.
      Or worse yet, they are never Trump libertarian Democrats

    3. Club? – I would pay $39 USD for a better quality US toaster. Wouldn’t need to have sundries either.
      Great links Club!

    4. …the components probably aren’t all made in America, and these are cheaper because of competition from imports.

  4. If the $300 toaster would actually brown bread and you didn’t have to replace it every three years, it might be worth it.

  5. Returning manufacturing back to the US is not an overnight event. However, provided the government stays out of the way, Capitalism will take care of the rest. Sure, as it is now, industry is not in a position to push out $30 toasters. However, as soon as some early bird pops out a $350 one, there are going to be myriad entrepreneurs trying to figure out how to make it cost less without sacrificing its purpose. This continuous process guarantees lowering prices as competition ramps up. Eventually, the industry is revitalized…and guess what…the rest of the world starts buying them from us. The US (and Canada for that matter) has more resources than most other countries on the planet. Materials are, also, an industry we farmed out abroad. That can change as well, but not overnight.

    Anyone recall how much it could cost for a hand held calculator when they first became available to the public. It was about $600. Now you can pick one up at a supermarket in their stationary department for about $3.

    1. And, BTW, China depends on imports of oil to the tune of 72%. Additionally, they are not self-sufficient on food either. They are more dependent on the US than we are on them (in the long run). The simple fact of the matter is that there are few things the US requires from China to exist….and many things China requires from the rest of the world to exist. That is not a very good negotiating position when the concept of tariffs come up. They could hurt us initially, but at the same time they would be sabotaging their future market availability.

  6. These guys have no idea what automation can do. We absolutely could make those $30 toasters. The problem is we would need a huge startup investment in the automation first. And, as long as China CAN flood the market with theirs than there is no reason to invest in the US version at that price.

    1. Our CA form of “capitalism” MANDATES $20.00/hr. for unskilled fry station workers at fast food joints. What does Communist China MANDATE their deep fried roach station workers get paid? 1 ¥ Yuan/hr.? ($0.14/hr.)

  7. Hmmmm … so a Western-made toaster will cost $300. The alternative is to buy a toaster made by SLAVE wages? It doesn’t seem to bother the EV drivers that the raw materials going into their eco-rides both destroy the environment and destroy lives … so getting a cheap, disposable, toaster is “worth it”. Worth the disposal of human lives slaving-away to build disposable toasters.

    I keep hearing how the ChiComs, and VietNam have an expanding middle class. How can they? When toasters cost $30.00? Nobody can possibly being paid middle class wages. So … breakdown the costs of a $30 toaster: Labor, materials, manufacturing of materials, packaging, shipping … and how much of that cost is worker wages. Hint; not nearly enough to become middle class.

    So … your $30 toaster is the epitome of worker oppression. The epitome of the elite oppressing the weak and needy. The epitome of Communism. I hope you choke on your burnt toast

    1. I’ll bet yer old enough to have used a manual toaster.
      Type 1- put bread slice in the open wire basket, hold over heat (open fire, heating element, etc)
      Tyoe 2- put slices of bread on each side door of toaster , close up each side, open and turn each slice to brown other side.
      Toasters don’t need wifi, Bluetooth ,IP, lights, ding-dongs, whizzers, bleepers, buzzers.

    2. I was in canadian tire today (kind of like Harbor Freight), they had $10 black and decker toasters! I know better, we have a $20 toaster at home, also made in china, thing is terrible, never consistent on how it will toast the bread, or release it. Not to long ago, my mother found a couple of very old toasters at the antique shop and gave one to her nephew, a red seal chef. He actually uses it all the time. it’s not the one you can just set and walk away, you have to be involved in the process, but the smoke alarm will remind you if you are not paying attention.

      I WOULD BUY a $300 toaster if it was worth it! If it was well built and would last and was repairable with commonly
      available parts, yessiree! That’s what appliances USED TO BE LIKE! There are actually people repairing and selling vintage toasters as a business and charging a premium for them, because they are worth it, even as a curiosity!

      We’ve strayed from that to give more people a chance to own appliances etc, to help them increase thier amount of free time, as modern conveniences were supposed to do. In Mexico, a toaster was concidered a luxury and only rich people could afford one, they made great wedding gifts!
      For the poor, you can BUY TOAST in the store (pan tostada) for that reason, not everyone has a toaster.

      Nowadays, it’s a throwaway society, most everyone can afford cheap chinese junk, and that’s what’s being pushed on people.
      It is also an instant gratification society, we MUST HAVE what other people have, instead of working hard and sacrificing to obtain what we want, or just to not have something and do without. Again it was WORTH BUYING things, because they we good quality and lasted and were repairable!

      Tupperware comes to mind, they were filing for bankruptcy protection, their products were so well made, instead of replacing them
      you had to buy more as they hardly ever wore out! Now, you can buy all kinds of plastic ware, some are good, others are mediocre,
      but there’s a plethora of them out there to choose from, so in this day and age a good product doesn’t stand a chance, no one really cares any more and that is another problem.
      Sometimes too much choice is worse than
      not enough..

      1. Zon,
        Well said.
        My kingdom for a circa 60s Sunbeam toaster.
        Even a manual GE flip kind.
        I have hated the last 3 pieces of shite toasters that were all I could buy unless I spent serious money without knowing if the upscale ones are even any better.
        I miss well built durable goods of all kinds. Had them all back in the 60s,

    3. “I keep hearing how the ChiComs, and VietNam have an expanding middle class. How can they? When toasters cost $30.00?”

      By having cheap stuff like toasters that cost $30, you dum dum.

      “your $30 toaster is the epitome of worker oppression. ”

      No it isn’t. It’s the product of (some) freedom to choose.

  8. The is a reason I gave up on Reason and The Economist. Because they stopped being how they started. Instead of doing a bottom up “if I were to found a company that did this…” they found designer versions and based everything off of that.

    It’s like looking at the level of education of a barista and saying that a functional engineer needs 3 PhDs before they should be allowed to work. No. You need one BApSc (Bachelors of Applied Science in the school that I attended) IN THE RELEVANT FIELD.

  9. Once people figure out that Blackrock ain’t Chinese, they may figure out the real problem, and Trump ain’t it.

  10. This is complete and utter BS. I worked for an appliance company in Ontario Canada when we still had them. We could make an entire refrigerator for less than $200 cost, yes it sold for 600 at the time but I bet if we still existed, a refrigerator would still cost less than $200 total build cost. Toaster, $10 bucks.

  11. That don’t make it right.. The cost of cotton and sugar needed slavery to keep that economy rolling along.. Nobody wanted to pay 10X more for that stuff either..

  13. My husband and I make a point of not purchasing anything made in China (or offshore), if possible. In May we purchased a Whirlpool dishwasher, made in USA. No offshore crap in our kitchen. Thing crapped out after three days! Company refused to replace it, repair only. Works fine now but I’ll never buy another Whirlpool product. Made in America doesn’t mean what it used to.

    1. We got a Ikea fridge on clearance in 2015. Came with a 5 yr warranty. Made in Mexico, Whirlpool rebrand. Guy came at least three times to fix/replace the flipper door. That was worth the $750.
      Now the auto ice maker no worky, but cube trays do!

  14. Why is “Reason” quoting the “Progressive Policy Institute” on Tariffs?
    And why didn’t “Reason” do a google search to see who makes toasters in America?

    How often are people buying Toasters to begin with, given that it’s one of the simplest appliances to not screw up and have to replace in a lifetime?

    ““Third Way” as a system wherein: (a) Big Business would own the economy (as under capitalism), (b) Big Government would run the economy (as under socialism), and (c) corporations would be persuaded to comply with government directives through subsidies, tax breaks, customized legislation, and other special privileges. PPI, for its part, views the “Third Way” as a means of advancing “radically pragmatic ideas for moving America beyond ideological and partisan deadlock.” ” – If only there was a word for this form of government.

    1. “Reason” is a BIG-L Libertarian rag. I’d take EVERYTHING they write with a BIG-S grain of salt.

      Their idea of a “free market” is where slave labor “competes” with fairly compensated labor. I wonder what “Reason” mag. would say if Trump imported thousands of peasants from Mumbai to build his high rise buildings like they do in Dubai and Saudi Arabia? Paid them slave wages, and simply shipped the dead bodies back to India. Would “Reason” magazine praise his use of “Free Market” labor?

      1. Kenji – the two links posted by “Club symbol” above pretty much refutes the article except that they also prove the US made toasters are competive without subsidies.

    2. Why don’t you understand economics, like, at all? Or the concept of ‘context’ for that matter.

      “If only there was a word for this form of government.”

      MAGA

  15. Hey if the toaster worked well and didn’t have to be replaced every two years I might buy one at $300. If I ate a lot more toast.

    I have appliances from the 50s that are still working great. Now I seek them out. Why can’t we make stuff like that anymore, is what I want to know.

  16. The reasoning in that article is dead wrong. Looking at product prices from sclerotic, union-dominated economies like Germany, Italy, and Japan is not a good indicator of what American made products would actually cost. I’ve worked with several small US manufacturers – several of who actively compete with China developing products ranging from RV accessories to back yard fire pits. They don’t try to compete with Chinese brands on price – instead competing on quality- but they still have to be positioned well below what is perceived as a luxury product. They generally price their products at between 15 and 30% more than established, Chinese-made brands.

    Some don’t bother, and focus entirely on differentiation on quality. Even then, the price difference is less than 100%. For example, Canadian tire sells a Chinese made oscillating lawn sprinkler under their store brand for $30, and a premium American made one (shockingly better quality) for $60.

    I’m confident that America can build things competitively with the middle and upper market. They won’t try to match the bottom end because most Americans are constitutionally incapable of taking the kind of shortcuts many Chinese factories do (many of which would be illegal under current UL regs anyway).

    I’d expect US-made toasters to cost between $60 and $100, judging by the prices I’ve seen on other small products.

    Remember: small American companies invented many of the automation processes all factories use today. They are very, very good at efficiency. Big, unionized companies are another story.

  17. I have a Sunbeam T-40 toaster, (the Airstream of toasters…) and a Breville extra long (or 4 slice if you’d rather refer to it as) in which to place my giant Superstore sourdough bread slices without having to cut them in half like a barbarian. The Breville is the same as Thought Criminal linked to above at 9.07PM but I paid about $40 because if you wait long enough, The Bay store has almost everything on sale. It’s about 10 years old and the printing on the top has worn off, but zero actual problems with this. Highly recommended.

    They both work perfect. My daughter has a Sunbeam T-40 as well, she’s only ever used these toasters in her life. You put the bread in, it goes down automatically, and it comes back up gently when it’s done to your specified doneness. Just as it should for a perfect princess. One of my very early jobs was working at the Sunbeam factory store in Regina, Sk the city which rhymes with “fun”.
    I doubt I’d ever consider a different toaster. There are some Sunbeam toasters like these for $300-$400 on the eBay / Etsy.

    My parents had a Sunbeam T-20 given to them as a wedding gift in 1955, and a set of Revere-ware copper bottom pots/skillets (note, not the thin copper bottom ones made in Clinton, Illinois as you know… everything from a Clinton is tier 2) the ones from Rome, NY, or Riverside, Calif are very good with much thicker copper on the bottoms… check out the Etsy prices for those guys. My parent’s Sunbeam toaster helped feed 5 kids and 2 parents for at least 4 decades before it died, and my parents had toast every day, and tea! which I could NEVER figure out. #whatever

    Project Farm on the YouTube used to only review car and hardware type items, he’s recently spread out to things like degreasers, detergent, and well… toasters. He doesn’t accept free stuff from manufacturers but I wish he reviewed some things which were more readily available in Canada (Gray Tools for example, and more Bosch tools)
    He didn’t find any of the 15 toasters he reviewed here worth buying… and I wasn’t at all surprised.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_9Sbpaa4XM

  18. LeBron James makes a tidy profit from his slaves in China and Reason magazine idiots fully would fully support him. Mark Cuban or some other world class a-hole probably owns the Reason writers.

    Libertarian absolutists are just another bunch of jerks with luxury beliefs.

    Not that LeBron James or Mark Cuban are libertarians, they’re just exceptionally greedy rich bastards who don’t care even a little bit about humans that aren’t them.

    1. Well said.

      And might I add … Reason mag and its devotees are scared shitless by Trump and his deep understanding of business at all levels. They’re not “free market” … they’re globalists. They are scared to death that Trump will restore the American MANUFACTURING middle class and repatriate American businesses. They’ve invested heavily in offshoring industry. They’re desperate to STOP Trump. To STOP all the little people in America

  19. WWII was largely won because of America’s production capability. WWIII I suspect would highlight the dangers of having exported your manufacturing capabilities to a communist enemy.

    I’m a big fan of Milton Friedman, but there are other considerations to homegrown manufacturing than purely economic ones. When we buy a Chinese toaster we’re not just helping them pay for aircraft carriers, dangerous viruses and the funding of Liberal traitors (but I repeat myself), we’re damaging our own ability to win a future war if/when one should occur.

    I bought a Technivorm Moccamaster coffee maker a few years ago. Made in the Netherlands, built like a tank, simple and cost about 3 or 4 times as much as a similar Cambodian Tire model. I’m 90% sure I don’t need to worry about the proceeds of my purchase being used to invade Alberta. (Fingers crossed)

    1. Damn you johnboy! Now you’ve made me want to buy a handmade Dutch drip coffee maker to replace my boil and hand pour Melita drip system. I’m too old to keep boiling and pouring hot water over my coffee grounds! I could spill the hot water and scald myself. So this would be an … investment … as the leftists would say … in my health. You know … like a $Trillion vaccine

    2. America has tons of manufacturing, largely because all the low-end nonsense got outsourced like it should be.

    3. “we’re damaging our own ability to win a future war if/when one should occur.”

      No we’re not. At all. There is no evidence that buying cheap stuff from China is a serious impediment to the US military or a serious help to China’s. Their economy is doing poorly anyway, and their military has issues with missiles that have water instead of fuel.

      And even if it did, so what? The US military gets tons of money to take care of things and protect my freedoms. Sacrificing my freedom to trade and resulting prosperity for the sake of some strained militaristic fantasy ablates the entire point.

      1. The evidence will only be revealed when the War with the ChiComs begins. You cannot make any claim of any “evidence” (undefined) until then. Why do you leftists like to claim things are “debunked” … just because you say so … with NO evidence or proof? Liars … the whole lot of ya

  20. I’m somewhat embarrassed to admit that THIS …
    https://wolfgourmet.com/store/countertop-appliances/four-slice-toaster
    … is my current toaster. BTW you can buy it at Amazon for $299. Why do I have a Nancy Pelosi model toaster? Well … because I got it for “free” when I bought a suite of Wolf/Sub Zero appliances. It’s the best toaster I’ve ever owned … although it won’t allow me to toast my bread to the “near burnt” cook I prefer without toasting it twice

  21. The best toasters ever made were the Sunbeam T series (T-20, T-30 etc). Built with analog technology (and kickass 50s styling and toughness) they had a heat sensor watching the bread to ensure proper tosting instead of a timer like those shitty modern toasters. They are the ones where the bread lowered itself into the toaster and came up again once done. This was accomplished by exploiting the phenomenon of thermal expansion… No lever to push down etc. Back then, they cost the equivalent of $200 of today’s dollars. They sell for more than that now.

  22. Oren Cass’s idiotic ideas to ‘revive’ manufacturing are much of why Argentina is where it is. Argentina can manufacture electronics too in its southern island manufacturing hub, it all just costs 3X as much as electronics bought in Chile. And all that manufacturing ‘self-sufficiency’ didn’t do much for their military in 1982.

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