32 Replies to “Wind produces zero power in Sask three times on Sunday”
How much energy was generated by the less efficient “peaker” plants to provide for the demand that wasn’t met by the wind turbines?
Quick test. If the grid was 100 percent wind and solar, would you be ok with power outages? How about 40 percent? 15 percent? Grid instability from intermittent supply is a thing.
H
Don’t forget the flipside: a grid that was 100% natural gas (with traditional amounts of redundancy built in) would hardly have any blackouts. When a natgas plant in Saskatchewan goes down it’s a almost always a mechanical problem. Tradesmen are available 24/7 to fix the problem and then it restarts quite quickly.
When wind and solar go to 0% it’s a weather problem. Could be down for hours or days There is no fix and no one could afford the cost of battery backup to give the same 24/7/365 reliability as natural gas stations (or nuclear or coal power stations).
So, in the end, building enough natgas to save the grid from wind and solar’s intermittent, non-dispatchable power production problems will cure the green power disease. As wind and solar installations fail (15-20 years or so), just don’t replace them. The grid is, by attrition, left with reliable power and a reliable grid. Meanwhile, build small modular reactors.
Note : natgas plants are considered clean energy in most of the world, except by the Trudeau Liberal government. Why? Because of its political and ideological hostility and vendettas against Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Before you go about hurling meaningless insults, perhaps consider the complexity of providing a stable flow of electricity to your residence. It is a marvel of the modern civilization to have reliable, consistent electrical supply. If one were to travel the countryside; on occasion you would see a dilapidated wind mill that used to pump water for the pasture or home. Most have fallen into disrepair and gone to the scrap yard. Replaced long ago by an electric motor and an automatic float. Just one example of how the Middle Age technology of wind power has been supplanted by something more efficient and reliable. Here is a bet for you Jenn, if you should ever need surgery of some sort please ask the hospital to attach all your needed electrical devices to so called ‘green energy’. Sorry about your luck if you need open heart surgery on a wind calm night. You have seen nothing over and over except something delusional
Jenn won’t be needing surgery. She’s content to live like the noble, loving, natives in the dirt … free from any modern technology. She will be braying at the moon god for spiritual healing. A couple rattle shakes from the holy shaman and she’ll be right as rain. And the globe will have stopped warming … Ohhhhhhhhh mommmaaaaaa
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. In the event that you misunderstand my mirth, it is meant to ridicule.,,
“The day is coming fast when you will regret your opinions and realize you made a huge mistake.”
Oh, the irony.
I will never understand why Saskatchewan doesn’t go 100% nuclear and show the world what 100% continuous, clean energy looks like. Make up your own Net Zero. Do you think those wind mills are carbon-free? Make shit up. Make your province the boss. Don’t forget it takes energy to criticize.
I’m pro nuclear power but Saskatchewan won’t shut down its hydro power or natural gas stations (two of its 300MW natgas plants are only a few years old and another is being built shortly and hydro plants seem to last forever). Besides, hydro and wind play an essential part of the power system due to their flexibility…they can function as baseload, emergency, peaker plants and for power exports.
Another thing most people aren’t aware of is hydro and natgas plant’s essential function in the event of a blackstart, if there’s a massive grid failure. Coal (and nuclear, I assume) need considerably more time to be able to warm up, restart and get up to full power.
If a nuke plant goes “cold” you have a bigger problem than a black start. One of the biggest problems with Fukushima is they didn’t have enough diesel generators to replace the lost grid power. Pumps lost power, cooling water didn’t move, etc.
If coal and nuclear are difficult to restart after a major grid failure, I’m going to go out on a limb and say a blackstart with wind and solar would be almost impossible. Ironically, relying on wind and solar power makes a major grid failure more likely to happen.
To put it bluntly, this attempted transition from traditional baseload power to wind and solar power is one of the stupidest policies pushed by politicians. I’m betting it will easily make it into the top 10 list of worst policies in history once its full destructive impacts are a known.
Any politicians standing up and saying No!! to this stupidity will be well regarded in history, in my opinion (but hated and ridiculed right now).
For Fukishima to NOT have TRIPLE back up systems … in the MOST seismically active place on the planet is beyond STUPID. I honestly think (or thought) of The Japanese as being smarter than that.
It’s a strategy. Saskatchewan is an interesting place. Lots of uranium, oil and gas. Sure, leave the hydro plants intact. But go all-in on nuclear and develop the plant construction technology in-province. Be self-sufficient in oil & gas and export the rest for much needed revenue. Then work toward zero black-outs and teach the world your model.
Wind is not a flexible energy source. It can’t function as a reliable baseload supplier because the wind doesn’t always blow.
The big issue is the splintering of your energy supply for a province with a relatively small population. Pick a few things and be the best at them. Don’t try and be a smaller version of Ontario. Don’t chase subsidies.
I guess I’m in the all of the above camp, except wind and solar which are worse than useless. A diversified power supply for Saskatchewan makes sense *because* we are so rich and self reliant in energy resources – coal, oil, natgas, uranium and moderate amounts of hydro. Many energy sources means many options to respond to rapidly changing economics, natural disasters and international events.
In evolutionary terms: species that become overly restrictive in their food sources and terrain (think Pandas) tend to go extinct. Species who are “generalists” with a varied diet and the ability to survive in many terrains and temperatures have an advantage.
In my previous statement I mistakenly said wind was a flexible power source. I meant to write hydro and natgas are flexible. Wind power is all but useless
I don’t know how to write these stories more plainly for the simple to understand. Zero power. For hours. Nothing. Zip. Nada.
That’s totally indefensible. Irredeemable. The emperor has no clothes.
Except for Jenn.
What is going on in this world – you know – Alberta and Saskatchewan – is that wind power totally collapses. And it does so frequently. That’s what is really going on. Not green-eyed fantasies.
Jenn’s a sock puppet. Possibly a paid one, given the speed of its responses to these posts. Possibly paid by the government, given the way things work around here.
I know you know that, Brian, I just think it’s worth repeating every time one of these idiots shows up. No sane, reasonable human talks like that. Only sock puppets.
I hope everyone is getting ready for the great Sock Puppet Deluge by the way. AI isn’t good for much, but its great for generating semi-random three line comments on a given subject. Weirdo-boy can set it and forget it, it’ll sit there and be Jenn forever so he can get back to surfing OnlyFans all day long.
“I know you know that, Brian, I just think it’s worth repeating every time one of these idiots shows up. No sane, reasonable human talks like that. Only sock puppets.”
That’s true. This one isn’t even smart enough to attempt being seen as reasonable, as the truly skilled ones do. The fact that it made no specific reference to anything Brian said is also a dead giveaway…
Regarding the poster Jenn’s comment, Fred, the fact that it referred to “it” in its comment without giving the readers a clue as to what “it” is that it was referring to tells me it has no intelligence, either human or artificial.
Based on Jenn’s comments I’ve read so far, Jenn is no Dorothy Parker.
There are times when “Jenn”, whatever or whoever that may be, does specifically refer to me by name, typically in an insulting fashion. So perhaps it is three-dimensional person full of hate? Dunno.
You are completely clued out as to what is going on in the world aren’t you?
Take note that Jenn can’t even bring herself to type “climate change” or “global warming” … “global boiling” … because it’s all so absurd and factually incorrect.
I’ve seen it over and over and over.
Funny. So have I. Every time the wind stops blowing or the sun goes down.
There is a reason sailing ships aren’t a thing.
Last spring the grid went down where I live in rural Alberta. No power for 38 hours. The village near me has a generator to power up a building that they use as a ‘warm room’. Peoples houses had cooled off in that little bit of time and were cold. If it had been -25 there would have quickly become an emergency.
Shutting down coal and gas plants has damaged the integrity of the grid. It is now vulnerable to failure on a regular basis. I do not trust the reliability of the grid because at some point (soon?) it will fail in a massive way. Everything is pointing in that direction.
Be prepared.
Soo..
The truth is the Loss of Wind or Solar power is being caused by, here it comes,,,,,,
CLIMATE CHANGE GLOBAL WARMING.
Hahahaha.
Jenn, do a little research into how much concrete is used in the base of just one turbine and how much energy is required for that.
Ever notice how the windmills keep turning a little bit even when there’s no wind? Yep that’s right, there’s an ELECTRIC MOTOR in there that keeps it turning so the bearings won’t get flat-spotted. Brinelling. Look it up, there a whole world of complications you didn’t know about.
So it isn’t just that they’re becalmed and producing zero power. They’re -consuming- a non-trivial amount of power from the grid to run their oil pumps and keep all those multi-million dollar shafts rotating. I would estimate about the same as the output from a decent sized diesel generator, the kind that has its own trailer. Times however many windmills are still in service.
Somebody ask Jenn if it knows what Brinelling is. I’m going to guess ‘no’.
I had thought about getting back to SaskPower and asking if Aug. 6 was again a case of “negative” power from wind. That happened in January, I believe. Over the course of 24 hours, they had one day where more power went into the turbines than came out of them. Negative 1 megawatt. I don’t remember if they have de-icing systems on the blades. I believe they do not. But they have to keep things moving as you say, and keep the systems warm, especially in -30, as it was that day.
Directing all that commentary at someone who isn’t interested in learning but only visits to incite and inflame is a waste of energy. As they said here 20 years ago, don’t feed the trolls.
I think you are right that unfortunately we have seen the effects of rapid transition to alternate power sources- high cost and unreliable and/ or inadequate supply. We’ve seen it most notably in jurisdictions like California with their brownouts and in Europe with failed attempts in Germany resulting in reversals and outrageous prices in Great Britain accompanying the supply problems. You would think we would be smart enough to learn from those experiences and maybe most of us have. But it happens when a government tries to transition without first identifying adequate and economical alternatives. It all comes down to ideology over practicality and reality.
Wind turbines at rest.
Eagles high fiving hawks and condors.
Whale oil is more of a “renewable” than solar will ever be.
How much energy was generated by the less efficient “peaker” plants to provide for the demand that wasn’t met by the wind turbines?
Quick test. If the grid was 100 percent wind and solar, would you be ok with power outages? How about 40 percent? 15 percent? Grid instability from intermittent supply is a thing.
H
Don’t forget the flipside: a grid that was 100% natural gas (with traditional amounts of redundancy built in) would hardly have any blackouts. When a natgas plant in Saskatchewan goes down it’s a almost always a mechanical problem. Tradesmen are available 24/7 to fix the problem and then it restarts quite quickly.
When wind and solar go to 0% it’s a weather problem. Could be down for hours or days There is no fix and no one could afford the cost of battery backup to give the same 24/7/365 reliability as natural gas stations (or nuclear or coal power stations).
So, in the end, building enough natgas to save the grid from wind and solar’s intermittent, non-dispatchable power production problems will cure the green power disease. As wind and solar installations fail (15-20 years or so), just don’t replace them. The grid is, by attrition, left with reliable power and a reliable grid. Meanwhile, build small modular reactors.
Note : natgas plants are considered clean energy in most of the world, except by the Trudeau Liberal government. Why? Because of its political and ideological hostility and vendettas against Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Before you go about hurling meaningless insults, perhaps consider the complexity of providing a stable flow of electricity to your residence. It is a marvel of the modern civilization to have reliable, consistent electrical supply. If one were to travel the countryside; on occasion you would see a dilapidated wind mill that used to pump water for the pasture or home. Most have fallen into disrepair and gone to the scrap yard. Replaced long ago by an electric motor and an automatic float. Just one example of how the Middle Age technology of wind power has been supplanted by something more efficient and reliable. Here is a bet for you Jenn, if you should ever need surgery of some sort please ask the hospital to attach all your needed electrical devices to so called ‘green energy’. Sorry about your luck if you need open heart surgery on a wind calm night. You have seen nothing over and over except something delusional
Jenn won’t be needing surgery. She’s content to live like the noble, loving, natives in the dirt … free from any modern technology. She will be braying at the moon god for spiritual healing. A couple rattle shakes from the holy shaman and she’ll be right as rain. And the globe will have stopped warming … Ohhhhhhhhh mommmaaaaaa
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. In the event that you misunderstand my mirth, it is meant to ridicule.,,
“The day is coming fast when you will regret your opinions and realize you made a huge mistake.”
Oh, the irony.
I will never understand why Saskatchewan doesn’t go 100% nuclear and show the world what 100% continuous, clean energy looks like. Make up your own Net Zero. Do you think those wind mills are carbon-free? Make shit up. Make your province the boss. Don’t forget it takes energy to criticize.
I’m pro nuclear power but Saskatchewan won’t shut down its hydro power or natural gas stations (two of its 300MW natgas plants are only a few years old and another is being built shortly and hydro plants seem to last forever). Besides, hydro and wind play an essential part of the power system due to their flexibility…they can function as baseload, emergency, peaker plants and for power exports.
Another thing most people aren’t aware of is hydro and natgas plant’s essential function in the event of a blackstart, if there’s a massive grid failure. Coal (and nuclear, I assume) need considerably more time to be able to warm up, restart and get up to full power.
If a nuke plant goes “cold” you have a bigger problem than a black start. One of the biggest problems with Fukushima is they didn’t have enough diesel generators to replace the lost grid power. Pumps lost power, cooling water didn’t move, etc.
If coal and nuclear are difficult to restart after a major grid failure, I’m going to go out on a limb and say a blackstart with wind and solar would be almost impossible. Ironically, relying on wind and solar power makes a major grid failure more likely to happen.
To put it bluntly, this attempted transition from traditional baseload power to wind and solar power is one of the stupidest policies pushed by politicians. I’m betting it will easily make it into the top 10 list of worst policies in history once its full destructive impacts are a known.
Any politicians standing up and saying No!! to this stupidity will be well regarded in history, in my opinion (but hated and ridiculed right now).
For Fukishima to NOT have TRIPLE back up systems … in the MOST seismically active place on the planet is beyond STUPID. I honestly think (or thought) of The Japanese as being smarter than that.
It’s a strategy. Saskatchewan is an interesting place. Lots of uranium, oil and gas. Sure, leave the hydro plants intact. But go all-in on nuclear and develop the plant construction technology in-province. Be self-sufficient in oil & gas and export the rest for much needed revenue. Then work toward zero black-outs and teach the world your model.
Wind is not a flexible energy source. It can’t function as a reliable baseload supplier because the wind doesn’t always blow.
The big issue is the splintering of your energy supply for a province with a relatively small population. Pick a few things and be the best at them. Don’t try and be a smaller version of Ontario. Don’t chase subsidies.
I guess I’m in the all of the above camp, except wind and solar which are worse than useless. A diversified power supply for Saskatchewan makes sense *because* we are so rich and self reliant in energy resources – coal, oil, natgas, uranium and moderate amounts of hydro. Many energy sources means many options to respond to rapidly changing economics, natural disasters and international events.
In evolutionary terms: species that become overly restrictive in their food sources and terrain (think Pandas) tend to go extinct. Species who are “generalists” with a varied diet and the ability to survive in many terrains and temperatures have an advantage.
In my previous statement I mistakenly said wind was a flexible power source. I meant to write hydro and natgas are flexible. Wind power is all but useless
I don’t know how to write these stories more plainly for the simple to understand. Zero power. For hours. Nothing. Zip. Nada.
That’s totally indefensible. Irredeemable. The emperor has no clothes.
Except for Jenn.
What is going on in this world – you know – Alberta and Saskatchewan – is that wind power totally collapses. And it does so frequently. That’s what is really going on. Not green-eyed fantasies.
Jenn’s a sock puppet. Possibly a paid one, given the speed of its responses to these posts. Possibly paid by the government, given the way things work around here.
I know you know that, Brian, I just think it’s worth repeating every time one of these idiots shows up. No sane, reasonable human talks like that. Only sock puppets.
I hope everyone is getting ready for the great Sock Puppet Deluge by the way. AI isn’t good for much, but its great for generating semi-random three line comments on a given subject. Weirdo-boy can set it and forget it, it’ll sit there and be Jenn forever so he can get back to surfing OnlyFans all day long.
“I know you know that, Brian, I just think it’s worth repeating every time one of these idiots shows up. No sane, reasonable human talks like that. Only sock puppets.”
That’s true. This one isn’t even smart enough to attempt being seen as reasonable, as the truly skilled ones do. The fact that it made no specific reference to anything Brian said is also a dead giveaway…
Regarding the poster Jenn’s comment, Fred, the fact that it referred to “it” in its comment without giving the readers a clue as to what “it” is that it was referring to tells me it has no intelligence, either human or artificial.
Based on Jenn’s comments I’ve read so far, Jenn is no Dorothy Parker.
There are times when “Jenn”, whatever or whoever that may be, does specifically refer to me by name, typically in an insulting fashion. So perhaps it is three-dimensional person full of hate? Dunno.
You are completely clued out as to what is going on in the world aren’t you?
Take note that Jenn can’t even bring herself to type “climate change” or “global warming” … “global boiling” … because it’s all so absurd and factually incorrect.
I’ve seen it over and over and over.
Funny. So have I. Every time the wind stops blowing or the sun goes down.
There is a reason sailing ships aren’t a thing.
Last spring the grid went down where I live in rural Alberta. No power for 38 hours. The village near me has a generator to power up a building that they use as a ‘warm room’. Peoples houses had cooled off in that little bit of time and were cold. If it had been -25 there would have quickly become an emergency.
Shutting down coal and gas plants has damaged the integrity of the grid. It is now vulnerable to failure on a regular basis. I do not trust the reliability of the grid because at some point (soon?) it will fail in a massive way. Everything is pointing in that direction.
Be prepared.
Soo..
The truth is the Loss of Wind or Solar power is being caused by, here it comes,,,,,,
CLIMATE CHANGE GLOBAL WARMING.
Hahahaha.
Jenn, do a little research into how much concrete is used in the base of just one turbine and how much energy is required for that.
Ever notice how the windmills keep turning a little bit even when there’s no wind? Yep that’s right, there’s an ELECTRIC MOTOR in there that keeps it turning so the bearings won’t get flat-spotted. Brinelling. Look it up, there a whole world of complications you didn’t know about.
So it isn’t just that they’re becalmed and producing zero power. They’re -consuming- a non-trivial amount of power from the grid to run their oil pumps and keep all those multi-million dollar shafts rotating. I would estimate about the same as the output from a decent sized diesel generator, the kind that has its own trailer. Times however many windmills are still in service.
Somebody ask Jenn if it knows what Brinelling is. I’m going to guess ‘no’.
I had thought about getting back to SaskPower and asking if Aug. 6 was again a case of “negative” power from wind. That happened in January, I believe. Over the course of 24 hours, they had one day where more power went into the turbines than came out of them. Negative 1 megawatt. I don’t remember if they have de-icing systems on the blades. I believe they do not. But they have to keep things moving as you say, and keep the systems warm, especially in -30, as it was that day.
Directing all that commentary at someone who isn’t interested in learning but only visits to incite and inflame is a waste of energy. As they said here 20 years ago, don’t feed the trolls.
I think you are right that unfortunately we have seen the effects of rapid transition to alternate power sources- high cost and unreliable and/ or inadequate supply. We’ve seen it most notably in jurisdictions like California with their brownouts and in Europe with failed attempts in Germany resulting in reversals and outrageous prices in Great Britain accompanying the supply problems. You would think we would be smart enough to learn from those experiences and maybe most of us have. But it happens when a government tries to transition without first identifying adequate and economical alternatives. It all comes down to ideology over practicality and reality.
Wind turbines at rest.
Eagles high fiving hawks and condors.
Whale oil is more of a “renewable” than solar will ever be.