No business case for Trans Mountain expansion, says former environment minister.
Personally, I think it will be approved, even Trudeau isn’t that dumb. Yesterday I got a fundraising call from the SaskParty. I asked the poor part-timer on the phone for a Referendum on Independence in exchange for a donation.
H/t Watcher
Who are you kidding, Turdo is clearly dumb enough to do it. However Turdo is not actually running the gov’t so it really isn’t his call. All he is in charge of is the acting props and even there someone is still telling him what to do.
jeez frenchie, ya mean the TURD actually found a use for his acting skills?
albeit a minor role.
Im waiting for that apocalyptic slip of the tongue. he is fully capable of it, anybody miss the water box clip?
oh ya. naturally it would have to be no more than 3 weeks before the election seeing as Canaduh has
a serious long term memory disability.
The “water box clip” is pathetic, it needs to be played over and over but assume it will be hard to find.
The media will be sure to protect the Little Potato, I would be shocked to see this as a CPC commercial. Yet, it is the essential and real Trudope, off script, he is a stuttering bumbling fool.
The media will be well paid to avoid this disastrous utterance, and anything else prior or yet to come. It really is pathetic and troublesome to the extent the mediots protect their little prince
I must admit, foreigners may be impressed by our creativity. This election is Little Potato versus The Dairy Queen. Hopefully with Mad Max coming up on the inside 🙂
Robert, if you mean coming up the middle, meaning stealing up to 5 or 6% from the CPC, then say hello to PM Justin with Lizard May as Deputy PM. Bank on it.
I get that Scheer is what he is or appears to be, but it’s still a better option than the two headed monster of Justin/Lizard
“jeez frenchie, ya mean the TURD actually found a use for his acting skills?”
Heh heh, yeah. I’m waiting for Zoolander to call out, “Line?!” to the director when he gets questioned at a High School.
As painful as it is to admit, the Liberal makes some good points. Heavy crude is not in high demand thanks to the shale boom south of the border where light oil is plentiful. Heavy is currently being blended with lighter oils in order to remain marketable.
And he is right in pointing to Venezuela where they may have some of the world’s largest reserves but it is heavy oil like the bitumen and now Venezuela cannot pay her Bill’s, as expensive as those may be.
“the Liberal makes some good points”
The North American energy industry has been highly integrated for years and yes the Gulf coast has always made the most sense as a destination for the oil produced at Fort Mac.
The problem is a lack of pipeline capacity for ALL oil produced in Alberta. Those long trains composed entirely of tank cars you see moving every day are carrying oil from every corner of Alberta not just oil produced at Fort Mac.
Respectfully, you are mistaken. There is a strong demand for heavy crude because Venezuelan and Mexican heavy oil imports have dropped and Gulf refineries are configured to handle heavy crude. Decent oil prices over the long term allow for investments in upgrading anyway. There is nothing wrong with heavy oil. The Liberals on the other hand are lying f*cking assh*les.
Exactly. Gulf coast refineries are mothballed for lack of heavy crude. They Keystone pipeline means jobs in Louisiana and Texas.
Yeah that’s my point. Thanks for adding to it
Yes the gulf coast is taking heavy. What does that have to do with Transmountain?
Permian oil is GETTING TOO LIGHT for the processing facilities. Unconventional oil commonly lightens up over time. There’s getting to be too much light oil supply and facilities are having an increasingly hard time to process it. Cdn heavy will definitely help.
Exactly. Where do you get diesel, the engine of commerce from? Light oil? Hardly. That’s a waste of resources. And what about jet fuel? If you know anything about the petroleum industry, you know jet fuel is just higher refined diesel. I’ve substituted diesel for jet fuel in turbo prop (jet engines) aircraft, in a pinch. It’s doable folks, it’s called “kerosene”. We used to burn it in oil stoves/furnaces before natural gas was readily available. Kerosene morphed into “heating oil”. It’s still used as an alternative where natural gas is unavailable.
There is no business case for cars made in Canada either. Let’s shut down the auto industry. There is no business case at all for the CBC. Let’s stop subsidizing all media in Canada.
What is going on in Alberta is NEP Trudeau 2. Only being run under the umbrella of Environmentalism to try and do an end run around the Constitution.
The only business case that the liberal party of canada understands is that which takes cash payments in brown envelopes and sells one of the following:
1) corruption
2) deception
3) privilege
4) little kids
Ok boomers, I get all your turdeau talking points. Yes, heavy crude can be shipped through Keystone, but no the Americans don’t need it that bad. Thing about the oil patch that everyone forgets all the time, is just how dynamic and adaptive it truly is; for instance, no one expected the shale revolution just as no one expected Millard to start refining Jet A and become PetroGas. My point is that the Liberal has a point when he says Asia doesn’t really want our heavy crude and there’s no point in selling it to them if it means we basically have to pay them to buy it, just as Venezuela was doing in the lead up to 2014.
The problem with you so called “conservatives”, is you’re so sure of yourselves but, ultimately, you often fail to see past your own boomer prejudices.
As a Gen Xer, I think your repeated use of “boomers” indicates something about your personality, politics and undermines your argument.
If you truly want a more thorough perspective on the challenges, issues and the complexity of heavy sour Canadian crude, Asia and refining then here’s a good place to start from School of Public Policy at the U of C.
https://t.co/5zmqNFyFLh?amp=1
An op-ed from a former federal Liberal politician and environmental activist is likely a poor source of accurate information. Especially with the Liberal Party struggling in polls right before an election and mired in pipeline/energy controversies. Anyone with a functional BS detector would hear alarm bells going off and dig a bit further for other data and opinions.
There is no business case for SNC Lavalin either.
Heavy Oil that can actually get to the Gulf, whether by pipeline , rail, or tanker sells for a premium because of those refineries set up for heavy oil.
Ministers of the “environment” have to see themselves as Gods because the “environment” is everything and anything that we exist within therefore being appointed as Lord of “everything” implies omniscience. It’s why Canada is being vandalized by the armies of self-righteous green theology zealots. Ministers of the “Environment” is the essence of green theocracy. No such ministry should exist. Everyone wants to live in a clean environment and with incentives such as private property rights, will seek to be good stewards of their property. Unlike Canada’s serfs, Property owning citizens don’t need the state running their lives. David Andersen is not only an economic illiterate but a personified throwback to the Spawn’s Father’s legacy.
Right so you’re adding to the argument that says no transmountain
Hey Dude, smoking too many refers? Trans Mountain should have been twinned decades ago. Tankers can navigate the Trench taking Alberta Oil to the Gulf if it makes sense. Having Oil in tankers on the West Coast will find all kinds of markets that they have not had previously because the volume is currently limited to expensive alternatives. Almost no volume can currently get to the Gulf directly.
Keystone XL,period, is the future of Alberta oil. Trans mountain , mythical far eastern markets are a sideshow and distraction.
If it is approved and completed, the future of Alberta oil is assured. If it isn’t, the oil industry will remain crippled and far below what it could be.
Ok that makes sense, which is why I always supported Keystone.
I merely said that the Liberal has a point. And I can also empathize with the left on environmental issues. As a conservative, I care about preserving Canada’s environment so if there is no need in changing it, besides some minor economic benefit that only exacerbates Alberta’s labor shortage woes, then why ruin the environment?
David Anderson is a consummate liar and ideologue. Do not believe ANYTHING that this lifelong Liberal ever says.
Do you really understand, or are you a plant?
Right. If a Liberal says something, you know it’s not true. Maybe if the Desmarais familly were heavily invested in oil, there’d be some action.
Robert, The Desmarais family IS heavily invested in oil,through their shares in Total SA, France’s largest oil company,with heavy investments in the Middle East including Iraq.
And that wouldn’t have ANYTHING to do with their influence on the Liberal party’s attempt to limit and eventually kill the Canadian oil industry. Nothing at all. Nosirree Bob, not ever. The Desmarais family would NEVER be corrupt, uh-uh……we need a new country, or, a US invasion/liberation. Now that would be a sight to see!
There is a valid comparison with Venezuela but it’s not the one Anderson makes. Market demand for Venezuela’s oil has disappeared because no customer believes Venezuela can supply their oil to market. And that is because the Venezuelan government for ideological reasons is committed to policies that have destroyed the Venezuelan industry’s ability to produce and transport their product. Meanwhile, the Canadian government for ostensibly different ideological reasons is also committed to policies that are destroying the Canadian industry’s ability to produce and transport their product.
I thought it was because Chavez and Maduro handed off the Venezuelan oil industry to their friends and family who were not that intelligent and had never run any businesses, let alone oil & gas which has a lot of moving parts to its logistics. As well, after nationalizing the oil/gas industry, the oil rig/roughneck workers have not been paid so have departed for more profitable countries.
Venezuelan oil is toxic heavy crude that Chavez had to literally pay the Chinese to buy. The lighter and sweeter the oil, the easier it is to refine. Yes, the Commies are incompetent which is why they haven’t found an effective way to market their oil. But also, without light oil with which to blend, as Alberta is doing with her heavy, the oil isn’t particularly marketable.
And you completely disregard the commie Venezuelans incompetence in managing their industry. Of course, nationalizing it and kicking out the foreign experts that ran it, had nothing to do with its precipitous downfall and collapse……go somewhere else and peddle your BS at the Mop and Pail
Hey DanBC…. brother bcer…. genxer….that’s basically what I said hahaha
“and now Venezuela cannot pay her Bill’s”
Venezuela can’t pay it’s bills because the Communists don’t know how to run their energy industry or anything else. Period.
It has nothing to do with heavy oil.
Venezuela enjoyed a brief period when it wasn’t a shithole. Now it’s a shithole again. As the old saying goes ‘some people can’t stand prosperity’.
Sure Dude, whatever you say. You sound like Obama when he said “we can’t drill our way out of the problem”. You do know that Canada imports ~1 million barrels of oil a day don’t you? To put it bluntly, Eastern Canada would rather buy oil from human rights abusers like the Saudi Barbarians than Western Canadians. A. Making Canada’s supposed belief in the sanctity of human rights seem rather fauxy. B. Turning many Albertans into separatists. That’s what happens when your country is ran by Frenchmen.
Yes mam, I’m aware of the Alberta oil patch. I actually agree with you on all your points.
Right,Anderson.
I had ,thankfully,forgotten that weasel.
Scroll on CBC or CTV,they are interchangable,”Liberals say western premiers threatening National Unity over Environmental Bills.
Full blown Pravda.
Hopefully after the fires go out,we will remember these lessons.
Big Bureaucracy Kills.
If you wish to destroy an activity,allow government to control it.
Free speech is just that,controlled speech is never free.
As for the liberal talking point,that there is no market for our oil…
Let them show us the way.
Let them demonstrate,under threat of violence if necessary,this oil free,carbon free life style.
I am sickened to the point of destruction, by these liars or idiots.
Yes they may be both.
Let them show us how they can survive without the materials derived from fossil fuels and the cheap energy that enables our comfortable standard of living.
I say we select an unoccupied area of boreal forest and herd them in,they can show us how to live, according to the rules they have been preaching ..For Us.
Weapons Grade Stupidity, requires a response.
For stupid parasites can collapse technological civilization.
Venezuela , Zimbabwe being prime recent examples.
South Africa following closely.
Canada is not far behind these failed states.
Oh right,math is hard.
“Liberals say western premiers threatening National Unity over Environmental Bills.”
Quite the opposite is actually happening: the Liberal government is threatening “National Unity” by wilfully pitting itself against the provinces for no good reason and interfering with their constitutional powers.
Good for you Lance in asking for a referendum in return for a donation. If she passes it on to the party leadership it tells them that there is a sentiment for separation out there.
Time to join Wexit.
The fact that the ART of an economist is NOT a science should determine that they DO not lead policy decisions… They are the PAST probability witch doctors that dance naked around boiling Kettles of chicken Shit…. Throw another Virgin in the Volcano & the expected result is obtained….The Probability of the Why is their only function, the trailing edge of stupid…..
David Anderson is an environmental lawyer and not an economist. I assume that the company that initially had the pipeline and the expansion opportunity had studied the economics and knew their business. Now the Federal Liberals bought the pipeline and are being advised by lawyers on its economics.
“David Anderson is an environmental lawyer and not an economist.” Steve
And who do you think is behind the AGW agenda, if not the incompetent Economists & Political scientists…Do a count of the turds involved
Engineering is a little Turd @ Penn state who uses an eco-sketch to create Hockey Sticks… No Science!
He doesn’t even know what thermal failure looks like…..Penn State “had” an Engineering Reputation
A good fair explanation of Alberta Oil WCI and WTI differential, different blends and values. Personally if it makes no sense to ship oil to Port of Vancouver. Shut in all Alberta Oil to BC and abandon Trans Mtn. Leave the pipes empty and make it BC’s problem. Let them buy world price oil. Do the same to eastern Canada. Ontario takes 400,000 barrels a day of Alberta Oil. Focus only on US supply south and North to Valdez. Fuck Canada, and at the same time boycott all Canadian Products. All the steel and pipe and pumps and trucks etc can be bought in the USA. The USA can supply all Alberta’s needs. Boycott all of Canada and shut in the Pipelines. Instead of a death by 1000 cuts of the LUNATICS in ROC go all in and make them own their bullshit. Make Trudeau and the LIBERALS and their LIBERAL VOTERS own it all. Fuck’em. Alberta can eat the short term pain. Make the bastard’s pay. Build refineries without Ottawa’s input in Alberta sell only refined products to ROC. There by ending all Provinces other than Alberta using crude byproducts to make anything. Sell only refined petroleum products. https://seekingalpha.com/article/4135266-wcs-vs-wti-canadian-heavy-crude-discount-demystified
It would make more sense for Alberta to push for the pipeline, expand its trade internationally and then threaten to separate.
Ironically, Alberta as a country would have more international trade rights with Canada than Alberta as a province. For instance, Canada has signed UN agreements that protect landlocked countries by allowing then access to ocean ports for exports. If indigenous groups were owners or part owners of projects then other UN treaties about indigenous rights. Then there is WTO rules. I’m sure there’s more right Alberta would accrue with nation status.
We could also negotiate trade through the US as part of a free trade agreement. Not having to protect other province’s marketing boards, industries and culture should make trade negotiations much easier
Alberta is too landlocked to make any meaningful gains on the international market
I disagree. Movement of goods isn’t all that difficult. It’s a political issue and free trade negotiation. Alberta and Saskatchewan live next to the biggest consumer market in the world. Deals can be made the US and Canada. Canada’s economy and dollar may drop substantially after Alberta and Saskatchewan separate. Free trade may look more attractive and/or a necessity
Movement of goods have always been a problem for Canada, after all that was the key reason for confederation and the national railroad. In order for Alberta to move oil anywhere but locally or the US involves huge losses; by the time BC or Ottawa is done imposing all their costs on allowing pipelines, Alberta will probably be losing money on their oil. Even the US imposes a discount. The 1st best thing for Alberta would be independence. That would force Canada to buy the oil rather than steal it in the form of EP. The next best option would be just full integration with the USA and getting dollar for dollar on our oil.
BS. The right of way to Valdez Alaska is a week long shorter than shipping from Vancouver, or Seattle, or anywhere else on the west coast of North America to Asia. I’ve already gamed it, sport.
Alberta (western) crude already makes up 40% or more of Canadian oil, at a minimum as far as Quebec for all their blather on the subject. You think Ontario would be able to source crude to replace it, or Quebec for that matter on short notice? As for BC, well they are hooped beyond belief, as the same oil that flows into Seattle starts in Edmonton. There is NO PIPELINE from any other source to Seattle and their excess needs are shipped in from Alaska to make up for the shortfall from Edmonton.
This^^^^ watcher’s comment
Interesting that a Liberal living in Vancouver would write a letter pooh-pooing Alberta oil but wouldn’t comment on his own Province’s plans to export its LNG – or is that different for an environmental lawyer who thinks he’s an economist?
If there is no economic case for exporting Alberta oil why did this Liberal turd wait until the Liberal government bought the pipeline to complain?
David Anderson has always been full of crap, and he further confirms that. Once a statist, always a statist.
What Elitists like him always fail to understand, is that THERE IS A BUSINESS CASE to build the pipeline, he’s just too stupid, ideological, and asinine to understand how the world works.
He’s a Liberal after all.
Neither he, his elitist friends, Libs, Greentards, or their voters, have given up fossil fuels or the luxuries that hydrocarbons allows them to enjoy.
It’s all about their feelings, and beliefs that magical inventions will happen by 2040 to enable their fantasies of their fossil free world.
Kumbaya!
We will see what happens shortly. Noise from Climate Bimbo says that they won’t raise carbon taxes, but the PBO (who elected them anyways?) says they must quadruple. There wouldn’t be an election coming up, would there? Even Bimbo won’t impose Alberta’s tax until AFTER the election, not that it will make any difference in Alberta.
These people are consummate liars and deceivers!
Dan, Ottawa re imposed a Federal carbon tax on Alberta last week, and as it was rammed up the keester they went BAAaaaaack Again. Mommy it hurts when I poo now. Mommy bad men hurt my bum again.
Above and Beyond the LNG is the COAL that is shipped out of BC.
Well, that’s Horgan ENDP (and the LIEberals before them). Do as we say not as we do!
In BC, there are no more alternatives other than a rump conservative party. These LIEberals once again proved themselves recently, when they voted for the ICE car ban by 2040. They are clearly the Trudope western reps and should no longer be supported by conservatives, they have taken control of the coalition out here. Unfortunately until they bankrupt the province, that means endless ENDP rule, and they will give us the rule!
Moving to Alberta looks more attractive all the time, and if separation is in the future, we’ll be selling out and arriving in Big Sky country as soon as possible.
Isn’t that US coal? I thought most of the B.C. coal mines were shut down by the unions.
I think you’re right but it matters not where it comes from as they’re profiting from the export of coal and proving themselves to be supremeecoHypocrites.
Clueless comment of the day. Clueless about mining, clueless about BC, clueless about unions.
British Columbia’s 10 Biggest Mines
Hint: 8 out of 10 are coal mines.
Twenty-seven MILLIONS of tonnes of it, shipped annually to Asia from BC. With hardly a peep.
Hypocrites, thy name is BC, the BC NDP, LGreens and Liberals the whole shebang. Up yours Elizabeth May.
Kill it! Let’s get the separation party started.
I will be asking for a referendum on separation the next time the UCP calls for a donation as well.
Thanks for the great idea Lance.
The separation party is already here. It is called Wexit Alberta, Wexit Saskatchewan, and Wexit Manitoba.
Just email them. You want my vote….vote UDI.
There will be no pipeline while Justin is in office which is why he needs to be removed from it.
This needs to be hammered home.
If Scheer had the spine, he would repeat this until he turned purple.
So, Anderson would have us believe that he knows more than the professionals at the big oil companies. That they were going to invest billions of shareholder dollars without due diligence. That Kinder Morgan (TMX) and Enbridge (Northern Gateway) engineers, accountants, managers, executives and forecasters were completely wrong but he, a former federal Liberal politician and current environmental activist, is giving an accurate and honest account of pipelines economics….and not just shilling for his political party and current environmental employers.
Sure, sounds reasonable.
BTW, the usual suspects used the exact same “it’s uneconomical” arguments after killing Energy East. Bullshit then, bullshit now. That argument, it’s uneconomical, is an overused ploy that 1) taps into human’s cognitive bias 2) Allows “progressives” and central Canada to not feel like assholes for destroying the livelihoods of thousands and thousands of blue collar families in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Greens pretend to be economists when it suits them. Weaver acts as if he knows more than people who run the Oil Patch. Coming from a university environment where he was paid big bucks to shovel green narratives behind the safety of tenure and censorship into incurious drones, he likely believes his own narratives. It is usually a sign of bankruptcy of sound arguments when greens play economist/business guru. Few in the media will challenge them given that few in the media aren’t parrots of leftist bilge. Environmental lawyers are their hysteria-pimping attack dogs, a profession dedicated to destroying prosperity of others while enriching themselves.
I think the phrase “Sadly, It’s time to say farewell/adieu to Canada” sums up my feelings (the opposite of the Canadian hi/bonjour greeting).
We go our way, the rest of Canada goes their way. We can persue responsible energy development without interference, they can persue their version of environmentalism without the burden and shame of the PrairieWest energy industry. Our dirty oil money is ours, their money is theirs. No more fights. It’s the best way to keep the peace for both sides.
Will you move to the new Wexit state?
I find it totally weird that Anderson would write this. Who is he to contend there is no business case — a foolish proposition in any event. I believe he was asked by some vested interest to write the letter. Makes no sense that he would feel so strongly about this issue. Since he is do concerned about the business case, where was he when Libs were coming out all that money to buy a white elephant?
Ask him about the “business case” for shipping coal from west coast BC ports vs the one againat western crude. Send him an email about it.
This is what Canadians think about Albertan’s and the resource Industry. The Divorce will be ugly. This is a Globe Debate from behind their paywall. Much censorship of opposing views. We are quickly reaching the point of no more Debate or reasoned argument. We are reaching ass kicking time. https://twitter.com/GlobeDebate/status/1124403771683926017
Strange points of view, as Alberta and other western crude makes up most of their fuel sources, even Quebec. BC gets all their oil based products from western Canadian crude. Talk about cutting your face off to spite you nose if they think they can get along without it.
As for the cretins posting in your answer, especially in Ontario and out to Quebec, 40% plus is western Canadian crude, piped into their refineries.
They want to talk turkey on this, Kenny should just shut down pipelines to these cretins for “maintenance” this winter. Yeah well he can’t ’cause he doesn’t own ’em or the crude/products that flow down them. Too bad, eh?
Industry needs to step up here and explain the facts of life to some Canadians. We live (well except for the cretins in Tronna and southern Ontario) north of 49 degrees. Vancouver is at the same Latittude as the bottom of James Bay with better coastal weather, but inland from there they get WINTER six to seven months a year. Vancouver is some few hundred miles north of Tronna which is at Oregon State levels of Latitude. Check out a map sometime. Calgary is 3500 +/-feet above sea level and is Lower James Bay geographically, something those cretins posting about Alberta are ignorant about. Come out and visit sometime while winter is here and no Chinooks.
AFAIC, Alberta should just separate with a UDI and ship our oil and grains to Valdez Alaska and then on to Asia. Tolls and tariffs on E-W “trade” outside the province.
Uncle Hack’s lingo needs discretion:
https://youtu.be/sinzShF_Hro