Leaders in the Baltic countries and Poland fear the force NATO plans to deploy on their territory is too small and symbolic to deter an attack by Russia, whose 2014 annexation of Crimea is fresh in the memories of the former Soviet-bloc states.
(h/t Colonialista)
If Quebec had voted over 90% to leave Canada in the failed PQ referendum who do you think would be the aggressor if Canada surrounded them with combat troops armed to the teeth?
This whole pile of pooh is becoming increasingly bothersome. When Russia said adios to the Baltic states they meant it. The Baltics were a net drain on their economy…now they are a net drain on ours and all the nonsense posturing and warmongering by US, not the Russians is what is causing the problems. NATO wants Russia to lay down like a good dog…they will not obey and they are not Syria or Iraq, or Somalia, or Libya. They are serious about their concerns and will not be cowed.
Also the Baltics don NOT contain Russia’s largest warm water naval facility and are not an historical part of Russia.
I still love that graphic that shows the location of the NATO bases along the borders of western and southern Russia.
Further to peter’s point, notice that the name of the country is Russia, not the Soviet Union, which is the only legitimate reason for NATO’s existence.
Anyway, the caption to the graphic reads: Russia wants war. Look how close they put their country to our bases.
All I can do is laugh when Obama claims 120 ISIS leaders have been killed and the US media jumps on it and says the U.S. has killed 120 leaders.
Near as I recall, Russia did most of the dirty work that had to be done in Syria.
And yes, why would Russia want to retake the Baltic States? Seems to me NATO (the organization chartered to slow the expansion of the Soviet Union) is the expansionist power here, desperately trying to make their irrelevance relevant.
The leaders of the Baltic states should have more to fear from NATO. Of course they’re pretty used to being told “how things work” by foreigners by now.
Russia is supposedly trying to reunite its Russian speaking people into Russia. The problem is many were planted on the frontiers by Stalin and Kruschev in isolated enclaves. Putin is able to torment dissatisfaction amongst the Russian speaking minorities with grievances and he is trying to use that as his pretext. Spreading a little money amongst the aggrieved also helps.
Unfortunately, our current feckless leadership is as bad as Chamberlain and the League of Nations were in the 1930’s. If Hillary is elected, he will continue his policies, and point to the stupid Libyan Intervention and “Responsibility to Protect” as his justification. If we (NATO and EU) can do it, Why Can’t Russia?
The biggest risk is we don’t have many options. Russia can take the Baltic States Putin desires. They are on his doorstep. And since NATO is a former shell with NO military forces, we either acquiesce or threaten war , where the only credible response will be nuclear. (Game over man, Game Over!)
Forment, not torment.
%#€$@& Auto correct!
Russia has a population 3.4 times larger than Poland and the Baltic states combined. Finland in Nov. ’39 held off the Soviets despite worse odds.
DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO DIE FOR MONTENEGRO?
by Jacob G. Hornberger
December 11, 2015
Get used to the possibility that your son or daughter might end up dying for Montenegro because that country has just been invited to become the latest member of NATO, the Cold War organization that was brought into existence to defend Europe from America’s World War II partner and ally, the Soviet Union.
Just in case you’ve never heard of Montenegro or maybe don’t know where it is, here’s a link to Wikipedia’s page on the country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro. It seems to me that if your son or daughter might have to die in the defense of Montenegro, you might want to know a little about it or at least where it is located.
Once Montenegro becomes a member of NATO, the United States is automatically obligated to come to the defense of that country if it comes under attack by Russia or any other nation. No, there is no debate in Congress. No, antiwar demonstrations won’t make any difference. No, the federal judiciary is not going to step in and determine the constitutionality of the war. And no, the president won’t have a choice either. Once Montenegro is attacked, the United States is automatically in the war.
http://fff.org/2015/12/11/do-you-want-your-children-to-die-for-montenegro/
Oh my so many pootin bootlickers humping each other.
“NATO wants Russia to lay down like a good dog…”
Pity, NATO should be doing everything to hurt Russia appeasement of rabid mongrels does not work.
“I still love that graphic that shows the location of the NATO bases along the borders of western and southern Russia.”
Yeah from Baltic to Georgia, if they haven’t joined NATO they now have pootinista junta occupying parts of their land.
“Further to peter’s point, notice that the name of the country is Russia, not the Soviet Union, which is the only legitimate reason for NATO’s existence.”
It is so tiring to have an idiot repeat this same bullshit argument. Soviets weren’t aliens teleported from outer space. They were for the most part russians and russia was the hegemon. Soviet union was just another manifestation of russian imperial ambitions.
“Seems to me NATO (…) is the expansionist power here, desperately trying to make their irrelevance relevant.”
Every NATO member that joined after Cold War did so with an overwhelming support from the population. Do you pootin bootlickers even understand what imperialism means?
“The leaders of the Baltic states should have more to fear from NATO.”
It is russians that slaughtered them in the past and destroyed their countries not NATO. They have every reason to fear russia.
“DO YOU WANT YOUR CHILDREN TO DIE FOR MONTENEGRO?”
Why Die for Danzig?
Leaders? Is that a polite word for quislings?
The Baltic states only exist because enemies of the Russian people want a place to put tanks within firing distance of St. Petersburg. The fact that there are still some old women on Russia’s Baltic coast speaking languages that were in terminal decline in 1991 doesn’t mean “Estonia,” “Latvia” and “Lithuania” are viable as anything but German colonies.
After the EU falls apart, the quislings in Vilnius, Riga and Tallinn will go back into exile to nurse their grudges against Russia. Meanwhile, Russia herself will welcome her Baltic children home. Nothing of value will be lost.
“The Baltics were a net drain on their economy…”
Only because russians never let them develop. Baltics have the highest standard of living of all post soviet republics and often higher than former Warsaw pack members.
Check this out.
“Canada considers European troop commitment as CSIS warns Russia is ‘mobilizing for war’ ”
Using stark language, the report warned decision-makers not to treat Putin’s rearmament drive lightly.”
“Russia is not modernizing its military primarily to extend its capacity to pursue hybrid warfare,” the 104 page report said, referring to the Kremlin’s use of irregular tactics to take over Crimea. “It is modernizing conventional military capability on a large scale; the state is mobilizing for war.”
The West has primarily responded to the annexation and Moscow’s support of separatists in eastern Ukraine with economic sanctions.”
The prevailing wisdom is that fiscal pain will bring Putin around, but the report dismissed that notion, saying two years after war erupted in Ukraine, the Kremlin “appears to be coherent, durable and united” at the centre. “Western assessments that Russia is vulnerable to economic collapse and disruptive internal discontent are exaggerated,” said the assessment, titled 2018 Security Outlook.”
“Russia is adapting to adversity; the economy is deliberately tilted to security rather than economic freedom.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-baltics-troops-russia-1.3635139
Russia redrew the map in the Ukraine, and contrary to the official touted line about the effect of sanctions and trade penalties, suffered SFA as a consequence. So, why would he not keep at it?
Are you trolling or just retarded?
In any case: “do onto russians before they do onto you” should summarize civilized policy towards russia (the drunken whore of nations).
Let’s deal with the meat of the matter in the link.
Four battalions.
That’s not the real problem; it’s a symbol of the real problem. Under a different leader, four symbols would be more than sufficient a deterrence against aggression. But this is about Obama. He’s established a strong record of NOT standing up for allies during his eight feckless years in office. Remember Hillary’s Reset Button, and how quickly that fell off the wall? Four full armies wouldn’t make a difference, given the Feet of Clay pretending to be Commander in Chief.
For once, I agree with Colonialista. The quotation “Why die for Danzig” is entirely appropriate under the circumstances. If large nations purporting to love democracy and rule of law will not stand up to defend small threatened nations, then the said large nations have sacrificed every pretense of ethical responsibility.
Shamrock is also right. Russia is far more united behind its government, particularly contrasted with the ongoing virtual civil war raging in the US today. If the United States is weak and divided, why would anyone imagine that it will stand up for any ally depending upon it today? It makes decisions today only based on focus group analysis of what will make Obama look good.
He’s gotten a bit of a bad rap from history, but only a bit. Even Neville Chamberlain finally stood up and said “Enough!”
“It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.”
George Washington
“Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none.”
Thomas Jefferson
“F*** the Russians!”
Ronald Reagan
Nah.
Let’s outsource the task.
Call it delegation, or call it proxy war.
#CanadianSoldiersLivesMatter
Those who stoop to name-calling and personal attacks to defend their opinion have already lost the argument and any shred of credible respect.
Wow, I haven’t read that much Soviet propaganda since Brezhnev was still alive. Well, alive might be an exaggeration. So was most of the above. LOL
Just out of curiosity, how much value do you think I put on your respect? Rough estimate sufficient.
If Russia had no designs on any country, it would not have invaded Georgia, assumed Ossetia, annexed Crimea nor would it be looking westward to Poland’s shale gas or getting a pipeline in Syria (let’s be honest).
Putin serves Putin under the guise of defending Russian interests (which include what goes on in other countries, apparently).
When he moves into the Canadian Arctic, will people still be blind to his plans and have confidence in their current leadership?
Exactly. The Baltic States have been independent for only a short time, about forty-five years, since the 18th century and they fear Russia coming back in as do Poland, Hungary, and the other middle European states. They would fight.
As cgh mentions, Russians are united behind Putin (60 to 80% depending)as they fear the return of the Russian mafia and oligarch chaos of the 90s that Yeltsin could not control and that would ensue if Putin would leave. The standard of living of the average Russian has improved since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the people credit Putin. After the fall of the Tsars succession in Russia, Soviet Union has generally not been pretty. There was a smooth transfer of power from Yeltsin to Putin and basically one set of corrupt oligarchs were replaced by another set of corrupt oligarchs controlled by Putin as we occasionally get glimpses of. Everything works by bribery in Russia, has since the Tatar rule, through the three hundred year Romanov dynasty, through the First Secretary years, and now through Presidents.
The EU and its lapdog NATO tried too hard to isolate Russia with alliances, bases, dangling EU carrot and the Russians are afraid and they channel their fear through the strength Putin brings. In a sense the west asked for a military reaction, especially after both Bush and Obama talked down to Putin.
If Russia, Putin at the moment, fears isolation too much or they get squeezed too much, they will fight and four battalions will not be enough.
When NATO tried to get into Georgia, and the EU and NATO tried to get into Ukraine, Russia considers both areas to be in their sphere of influence (Old World politics) and began to consider its options to retaliate.
I’m not defending Russia or Putin’s actions in eastern Ukraine ,but this not all his or Russia’s fault.
Sorry Ken but it is exactly all of russia’s fault. russia does not get to declare others part of their “sphere of influence”. This is the exact problem and the exact reason why the west should be doing everything to hurt, undermine and weaken the Siberians. Any former European russian satelite or republic not in NATO hurts because of russia. russia is cancer, plain and simple.
So, I get it. The US and other regional powers can have spheres of influence but Russia can’t? The US took great umbrage when the Soviets moved into SE Asia, Angola, and Cuba and elsewhere close to US interests, and I suspect that it would also if Russia made moves into disputed areas of the Arctic.
Yes russia can’t. russian “sphere of influence” means subjugation. russia is a source of never ending misery for Eastern Europe. What US spheres of influence are you referring to anyway? South Korea? Taiwan? Where in today’s world does US maintain a sphere of influence without consent and support of the local populace (mooselimb shitholes excluded for they deserve to be subjugated although in most instances are not worth it but that is a separate issue)?
You simply can’t equivalence EU or NATO expansion into the east with russian imperial ambitions. EU and NATO did not expand because of some western nefarious meddling. They expanded because east run west, they expanded because for the east it meant freedom from russia. This was the single overriding reason. Pity Georgia, Ukraine and Moldova failed and now are paying he price for it. For russia is cancer.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-14/nato-begins-encirclement-russia