Debate open thread.
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86 Replies to “Debate Night”
This must be one truly dismal candidate. An NDPer dodging the media just doesn’t make sense since there would be more big fat softballs lobbed in than what you’d see at a weekend slo-pitch tournament.
Horrible debate. Terrible moderation and way too much talking over each other. Cannot say who the winner was, but Trudeau was definitely the loser. He was just loud and boorish.
To answer your question about how many are in the “1%”, I had to look back to a table I constructed in 2008, based on the data produced in the Dept of Finance stats for that tax year. I am working on an update based on 2012 (the latest year for which CRA has published data), but the data is in a very unfriendly format and there is a lot of tedious work still to do to summarize it as I have done below. I doubt if the general overview will have changed much though.
In 2008:
The top 2% of taxpayers (income >$150K; total of 569,650 individuals) reported 17.20% of all taxable income ($156B) and paid 30.98% of all income tax collected. As a class, the very rich (>$250K in taxable income) paid in 21% of their total income and 23% or their taxable income; i.e. twice the rates of anyone in the bottom 75% of all those who filed tax returns (4.5 million of which were only for refundable tax credits or income
How come both Trudeau and Mulcair were given considerable time in the after debate ‘scrum’?
Trudeau immediately retreated into the same talking points he covered oh, lets say 34 times during his debate minutes. Nothing new, because I think he’s terrified of going off-script.
Perhaps Mr. Harper decided his personal time was more valuable than being harangued by media who would be shall we say, impolitic?
Two points I wish Harper had made. (1) Three years of deficits followed by a balanced budget simply means a Canada further indebted. (2) While you guys want to invite people whom you know nothing about into Canada and send the rest blankets, we’re busy pounding the root cause that is making them refugees.
That the brain trust of the Liberals and the Dippers put forth those 2 imbeciles for the public to decide who is going to run this country is beyond words. They are vapid, talking heads with no back bone, no substance, no nothing. I would not blame the Prime Minister if he decided not to participate in any debate. God had better be able to help us if one of these idiots gets hold of power. It would not surprise me if coalition talks are going on right now. A part time teacher and a career politician who collectively don’t have the brain power to put together a sentence.
Yeah, but it looks pretty. Saw some of it today and almost drove INTO the Bow, I was laughing so hard. Haven’t been downtown much lately. I live 300 feet above and a mile or two west of the Bow. My insurance rates went up 30%, gosh darn, right after The Flood.
There have to be some BIG kickbacks going on with this kind of “mitigation”.
For crying out loud, exit the site already!
Btw, noticed lately, after submitting a comment everything freezes and tries to refresh, but can’t. But it gets posted and is visible upon return. My problem or yours..É
I’m replying to my original comment: Think of all that “infrastructure investing” that Mulchair & SP bloviate about. How much, where, who by (buy) and does it give an ROI to we schlubs who pay for it all? I’m thinking Wynne’s ORPP type “investing”. You can bet that the OTPP aren’t buying into any of the stuff these guys are stumping for, nor are the folks over at CPPIB, unless some politico forces them to do so.
OK, what: hockey rinks for NHL teams, baseball teams, airport “expansion”, toll highways, power lines, pipelines, export facilities for Canadian commodities? Probably not and it behooves our lick spittle MSM types to ask the pointy questions of these grifter politicos and their Parties about it, before I get to pick & choose who I vote for. And you all know that isn’t going to happen.
I think of Brookfield Asset Management type “investments” that PAY an ROI, not political BS “investments” to buy votes in buttho&&ville somewhere in Canada that once the thing is built already needs upgrading & maintenance that nobody has the cash for. I own a piece of BAM in my portfolio. I pays a nice dividend and has just about doubled in value since I first bought it.
That’s the problem with politcos, buying your vote with your own money…they aren’t managing their own investments, some professional is and they haven’t a clue on how or where the money comes from to pay their gold-plated pensions. It’s reflected in what they spew in these “debates” and day to day.
Harper wins. Mulcair is Frothing at the mouth and the turd is just bloviating!!
The CPP funds of every Canadian. Justin wants to act like a typical Liberal.
“Problem? Hell, RIGHT NOW, let’s throw a few modest billion at it!”
“Job problem? Let’s throw billions at it, RIGHT NOW, some of it might work.”
A dangerously naive ponce, and too many naive, idiot Canadians believe his breathy schlock.
Thanks JAB.
Would have liked to have heard the PM respond to Mulcher’s accusations concerning industries shutting down and job losses, by pointing out the true cause, that being the huge increase in energy costs in Ontario due to incompetent lefty stewardship.
Someone had to be the loud and boorish one, Lizard wasnt there.
I thought Tommunist was the boorish one actually, loudly interrupting PMSH at every turn. He is a real snake, he is a lawyer after all. Once again referring to all the great things he did in Quebec, sheesh………..
Trudozo was just just too rushed and breathy to take seriously.
Infrastructure bank? Seriously…………the Fiberals come up with new ways to BS the LIV crowd…………
Disappointed with PMSH, he had a few opportunities to strike at Trudozo, and Tommunist, but let them go. A little too pre-occupied with being nice Uncle Stevie who never gets rattled or pounces on the less cerebral.
Best line of the night though goes to Hairface. With Turdo le duh saying that Harper was all “huff and puff”, Tommunist said “you would something about that”, just said it too quietly.
recorded it and watched after the kids were in bed, so I missed the on-the-fly commenting.
PMSH looked ministerial. JT looked like a junior high-school debater (by method only, he looked old enough to be an adult, but didn’t come across as one). TM looked like a snake-oil salesman. G&M looks like they couldn’t organize a threesome in a house of ill repute.
I think the lizard should have been there. She’s a pro at derailing libdipper trains of thought. She would have made the libdipper team look even more foolish.
The highlights were unwatchable. I can’t imagine anyone watching such a rude uncontrolled gong show and changing their concrete-bound worldview. As for Harper, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.
Harper was the only one who had a record to defend, I think he did OK!! Once again, the MSM warped reality all to hell!! The most disgusting I’ve seen yet was John Ivison over at the National Post!!
Was in States. Forgot about the debate thank god. Did see republican debate though which despite the crazy format with so many potential nominees, showed the depth of the conservative bench versus the purity of good democrat potential presidents. Don’t like Cnn, but had to hand it to the moderator.
Was in States. Forgot about the debate thank god. Did see republican debate though which despite the crazy format with so many potential nominees, showed the depth of the conservative bench versus the purity of good democrat potential presidents. Don’t like Cnn, but had to hand it to the moderator.
Well, there must be 330,000 in Canada, being 1%. Lets say they all pay another $10,000, then that would bring in $3.3 billion.
Didn’t watch it live,better ways to spend the evening but it sounds like I was expecting…Globe and Mail is all I needed to hear to know how it would be rigged. I couldn’t bear to listen to Jane Taber but someone needs to ask her when Stephen Harper resigned and who is in charge of this country’s affairs?
Judging by radio clips the Dauphin was super hyped, right out of high school debating class with the school boy preppy voice to go with it. His emoting was over the top as well a testament to his drama training.
Increasing taxes to “grow the economy” is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick it up by the handle. Fools for saying that’s what they are going to do, and fools who would vote for that.
Increasing taxes to “grow the economy” is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick it up by the handle. Fools for saying that’s what they are going to do, and fools who would vote for that.
I cannot be bothered to listen to juvenile bleating. So this was the height of political discourse in Canada? Making TV ‘points’ by talking over others. I thought Harper was getting better control over the formats.
How about a discussion about;
1) The failure of the central Canada industrialization strategy that has consumed 100’s of billions $’s over the past 50 years.
2) If jobs in energy development are to be nixed as per the Liebels and Dippers where will jobs for Canadians come from? Apparently not by making cars.
3) One of the biggest lies in this country, Equalization, will never be debated. It is one of the key tools used by eastern Canada to continue the rape of the West.
4) How about discussing the real impact of deficit spending on individual taxpayers on their long term prospects.
5) The shrinkage in global growth and population will bring an extended period of deflation. How will capitalism deal with this versus progressive socialism?
What happened last night looked like amateur hour.
I was appalled at the behavior of Fuzz face and Justine, they were literally shrieking like bullies and thugs. Yea dippers he’s a real state’s man if you like hysterical, ugly and viciously angry.
JAB above:
Jr’s sophomoric idea to tax the 1% more falls flat when numbers are analyzed. If it were that simple, previous regimes, especially
Liberal ones would have already done it. There aren’t enough of them, plus they are sophisticated about avoiding taxes, rather like Paul Martin with his ship company.
Endlessly repeating his talking points is all Jr can do, but do Canadians really countenance this lightweight as a fiscal manager?
The spending he envisages could only come from tax increases to ordinary Canadians.
Dear God, when will this damned election campaign ever end?
Can’t we all just vote right now and get it over with?
(I suppose we should count our blessings we’re in Canada; if we were Americans we’d have another year of election nonsense to face.)
With this election the msm has been so intent on defeating the conservatives they have developed a complete lack of interest for any substantive debate on any of the issues. Andrew Coyne and others of his kind want you to believe that the parties are all the same and whoever is PM will make no difference whatsoever. Those of us who have lived in provinces where in-your-face governments have been the order of the day know differently.
Thanks. It was fun taking that poll.
Yeah, me too. I’m listed as from “Redmonton Centre”. Should make any pollster go “hmmmmm”, if they believe anything they read from it. Probably why we see a 3-way split daily….pollsters can’t figure out what they’re seeing from poll results, so their “polls” are bogus and they know it. Safe bet is a 3-way split. CYA.
The media are so in the tank for moving the Cons off center stage, it’s almost laughable. Didn’t watch the “debate” but only highlights. It was predictable. This AM on CTV (just for fun), I watched the blonde bimbo interview an “Image Consultant” while they picked apart the three contenders. Hilarious! Center of The universe stuff.
The media are digging a hole this election, that they will never climb out of. Some of these outfits will be firing staff, or closing their doors, post election. Some media names will disappear from view. Thankfully.
I agree with Ken, that poll is fun Rita. I see that they use the NDPs talking points about the economy rather than their past performance at the provincial level. Oh well, it’s CBC based so that’s no surprise.
I judged debates (Westminister) for years and years ago I quit watching ‘debate’ during elections. These are made for TV farces – cheap entertainment that is one step removed from wrestling.
Serious debate with rules and a proper moderator are nothing like this. When one side carries the day in a proper debate there is no question in any ones mind who won.
These ‘debates’ if they must persist would be best held on radio.
That would be nice, but, the way this is going, we will be back at the polls within a year.
That is, unless, PMSH grows a pair, sends out the attack dogs, er, ads, and acts a little more engaged, offering Canadians something more. Yes, we all know he’s doing a good job, but, he has to offer SOMETHING to the LIVs, the “gimme gimme” crowd, to draw some votes, TAX CUTS anybody?
We’re in for several years of minority governments, unless there’s a drastic change.
Oh, and Justin looks sophomoric, out of breath, over-emphasizing, uhhh, his words, uhhhh.
The problems with adding more tax to the few rich is two-fold. First, there are so darn few really rich people that even if you skin them good, you get next to nothing. Second, in the face of taxation people re-arrange their affairs to pay less tax. A tax hike may very well reduce government revenue. It all seems so simple to the Moron Manchild.
We won’t be back at the polls. If Harper doesn’t win a majority (and use the bloody thing!) we’ll witness at the first opportunity, both the LPOC & NDP hive off to the GG and claim they can form government on a non confidence motion….no election. It’s a plan & it IS in the works.
This must be one truly dismal candidate. An NDPer dodging the media just doesn’t make sense since there would be more big fat softballs lobbed in than what you’d see at a weekend slo-pitch tournament.
Horrible debate. Terrible moderation and way too much talking over each other. Cannot say who the winner was, but Trudeau was definitely the loser. He was just loud and boorish.
To answer your question about how many are in the “1%”, I had to look back to a table I constructed in 2008, based on the data produced in the Dept of Finance stats for that tax year. I am working on an update based on 2012 (the latest year for which CRA has published data), but the data is in a very unfriendly format and there is a lot of tedious work still to do to summarize it as I have done below. I doubt if the general overview will have changed much though.
In 2008:
The top 2% of taxpayers (income >$150K; total of 569,650 individuals) reported 17.20% of all taxable income ($156B) and paid 30.98% of all income tax collected. As a class, the very rich (>$250K in taxable income) paid in 21% of their total income and 23% or their taxable income; i.e. twice the rates of anyone in the bottom 75% of all those who filed tax returns (4.5 million of which were only for refundable tax credits or income
How come both Trudeau and Mulcair were given considerable time in the after debate ‘scrum’?
Trudeau immediately retreated into the same talking points he covered oh, lets say 34 times during his debate minutes. Nothing new, because I think he’s terrified of going off-script.
Perhaps Mr. Harper decided his personal time was more valuable than being harangued by media who would be shall we say, impolitic?
Two points I wish Harper had made. (1) Three years of deficits followed by a balanced budget simply means a Canada further indebted. (2) While you guys want to invite people whom you know nothing about into Canada and send the rest blankets, we’re busy pounding the root cause that is making them refugees.
That the brain trust of the Liberals and the Dippers put forth those 2 imbeciles for the public to decide who is going to run this country is beyond words. They are vapid, talking heads with no back bone, no substance, no nothing. I would not blame the Prime Minister if he decided not to participate in any debate. God had better be able to help us if one of these idiots gets hold of power. It would not surprise me if coalition talks are going on right now. A part time teacher and a career politician who collectively don’t have the brain power to put together a sentence.
Yeah, but it looks pretty. Saw some of it today and almost drove INTO the Bow, I was laughing so hard. Haven’t been downtown much lately. I live 300 feet above and a mile or two west of the Bow. My insurance rates went up 30%, gosh darn, right after The Flood.
There have to be some BIG kickbacks going on with this kind of “mitigation”.
For crying out loud, exit the site already!
Btw, noticed lately, after submitting a comment everything freezes and tries to refresh, but can’t. But it gets posted and is visible upon return. My problem or yours..É
I’m replying to my original comment: Think of all that “infrastructure investing” that Mulchair & SP bloviate about. How much, where, who by (buy) and does it give an ROI to we schlubs who pay for it all? I’m thinking Wynne’s ORPP type “investing”. You can bet that the OTPP aren’t buying into any of the stuff these guys are stumping for, nor are the folks over at CPPIB, unless some politico forces them to do so.
OK, what: hockey rinks for NHL teams, baseball teams, airport “expansion”, toll highways, power lines, pipelines, export facilities for Canadian commodities? Probably not and it behooves our lick spittle MSM types to ask the pointy questions of these grifter politicos and their Parties about it, before I get to pick & choose who I vote for. And you all know that isn’t going to happen.
I think of Brookfield Asset Management type “investments” that PAY an ROI, not political BS “investments” to buy votes in buttho&&ville somewhere in Canada that once the thing is built already needs upgrading & maintenance that nobody has the cash for. I own a piece of BAM in my portfolio. I pays a nice dividend and has just about doubled in value since I first bought it.
That’s the problem with politcos, buying your vote with your own money…they aren’t managing their own investments, some professional is and they haven’t a clue on how or where the money comes from to pay their gold-plated pensions. It’s reflected in what they spew in these “debates” and day to day.
Harper wins. Mulcair is Frothing at the mouth and the turd is just bloviating!!
The CPP funds of every Canadian. Justin wants to act like a typical Liberal.
“Problem? Hell, RIGHT NOW, let’s throw a few modest billion at it!”
“Job problem? Let’s throw billions at it, RIGHT NOW, some of it might work.”
A dangerously naive ponce, and too many naive, idiot Canadians believe his breathy schlock.
Thanks JAB.
Would have liked to have heard the PM respond to Mulcher’s accusations concerning industries shutting down and job losses, by pointing out the true cause, that being the huge increase in energy costs in Ontario due to incompetent lefty stewardship.
Someone had to be the loud and boorish one, Lizard wasnt there.
I thought Tommunist was the boorish one actually, loudly interrupting PMSH at every turn. He is a real snake, he is a lawyer after all. Once again referring to all the great things he did in Quebec, sheesh………..
Trudozo was just just too rushed and breathy to take seriously.
Infrastructure bank? Seriously…………the Fiberals come up with new ways to BS the LIV crowd…………
Disappointed with PMSH, he had a few opportunities to strike at Trudozo, and Tommunist, but let them go. A little too pre-occupied with being nice Uncle Stevie who never gets rattled or pounces on the less cerebral.
Best line of the night though goes to Hairface. With Turdo le duh saying that Harper was all “huff and puff”, Tommunist said “you would something about that”, just said it too quietly.
recorded it and watched after the kids were in bed, so I missed the on-the-fly commenting.
PMSH looked ministerial. JT looked like a junior high-school debater (by method only, he looked old enough to be an adult, but didn’t come across as one). TM looked like a snake-oil salesman. G&M looks like they couldn’t organize a threesome in a house of ill repute.
I think the lizard should have been there. She’s a pro at derailing libdipper trains of thought. She would have made the libdipper team look even more foolish.
The highlights were unwatchable. I can’t imagine anyone watching such a rude uncontrolled gong show and changing their concrete-bound worldview. As for Harper, in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.
Harper was the only one who had a record to defend, I think he did OK!! Once again, the MSM warped reality all to hell!! The most disgusting I’ve seen yet was John Ivison over at the National Post!!
Was in States. Forgot about the debate thank god. Did see republican debate though which despite the crazy format with so many potential nominees, showed the depth of the conservative bench versus the purity of good democrat potential presidents. Don’t like Cnn, but had to hand it to the moderator.
Was in States. Forgot about the debate thank god. Did see republican debate though which despite the crazy format with so many potential nominees, showed the depth of the conservative bench versus the purity of good democrat potential presidents. Don’t like Cnn, but had to hand it to the moderator.
Well, there must be 330,000 in Canada, being 1%. Lets say they all pay another $10,000, then that would bring in $3.3 billion.
Didn’t watch it live,better ways to spend the evening but it sounds like I was expecting…Globe and Mail is all I needed to hear to know how it would be rigged. I couldn’t bear to listen to Jane Taber but someone needs to ask her when Stephen Harper resigned and who is in charge of this country’s affairs?
Judging by radio clips the Dauphin was super hyped, right out of high school debating class with the school boy preppy voice to go with it. His emoting was over the top as well a testament to his drama training.
Increasing taxes to “grow the economy” is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick it up by the handle. Fools for saying that’s what they are going to do, and fools who would vote for that.
Increasing taxes to “grow the economy” is like standing in a bucket and trying to pick it up by the handle. Fools for saying that’s what they are going to do, and fools who would vote for that.
Here is a poll you can have some fun with.
https://votecompass.cbc.ca/parties/?s=fc5b3a1573ddd5739ac76ab8743a042e28527c481442581073
I cannot be bothered to listen to juvenile bleating. So this was the height of political discourse in Canada? Making TV ‘points’ by talking over others. I thought Harper was getting better control over the formats.
How about a discussion about;
1) The failure of the central Canada industrialization strategy that has consumed 100’s of billions $’s over the past 50 years.
2) If jobs in energy development are to be nixed as per the Liebels and Dippers where will jobs for Canadians come from? Apparently not by making cars.
3) One of the biggest lies in this country, Equalization, will never be debated. It is one of the key tools used by eastern Canada to continue the rape of the West.
4) How about discussing the real impact of deficit spending on individual taxpayers on their long term prospects.
5) The shrinkage in global growth and population will bring an extended period of deflation. How will capitalism deal with this versus progressive socialism?
What happened last night looked like amateur hour.
I was appalled at the behavior of Fuzz face and Justine, they were literally shrieking like bullies and thugs. Yea dippers he’s a real state’s man if you like hysterical, ugly and viciously angry.
JAB above:
Jr’s sophomoric idea to tax the 1% more falls flat when numbers are analyzed. If it were that simple, previous regimes, especially
Liberal ones would have already done it. There aren’t enough of them, plus they are sophisticated about avoiding taxes, rather like Paul Martin with his ship company.
Endlessly repeating his talking points is all Jr can do, but do Canadians really countenance this lightweight as a fiscal manager?
The spending he envisages could only come from tax increases to ordinary Canadians.
Dear God, when will this damned election campaign ever end?
Can’t we all just vote right now and get it over with?
(I suppose we should count our blessings we’re in Canada; if we were Americans we’d have another year of election nonsense to face.)
With this election the msm has been so intent on defeating the conservatives they have developed a complete lack of interest for any substantive debate on any of the issues. Andrew Coyne and others of his kind want you to believe that the parties are all the same and whoever is PM will make no difference whatsoever. Those of us who have lived in provinces where in-your-face governments have been the order of the day know differently.
Thanks. It was fun taking that poll.
Yeah, me too. I’m listed as from “Redmonton Centre”. Should make any pollster go “hmmmmm”, if they believe anything they read from it. Probably why we see a 3-way split daily….pollsters can’t figure out what they’re seeing from poll results, so their “polls” are bogus and they know it. Safe bet is a 3-way split. CYA.
The media are so in the tank for moving the Cons off center stage, it’s almost laughable. Didn’t watch the “debate” but only highlights. It was predictable. This AM on CTV (just for fun), I watched the blonde bimbo interview an “Image Consultant” while they picked apart the three contenders. Hilarious! Center of The universe stuff.
The media are digging a hole this election, that they will never climb out of. Some of these outfits will be firing staff, or closing their doors, post election. Some media names will disappear from view. Thankfully.
I agree with Ken, that poll is fun Rita. I see that they use the NDPs talking points about the economy rather than their past performance at the provincial level. Oh well, it’s CBC based so that’s no surprise.
I judged debates (Westminister) for years and years ago I quit watching ‘debate’ during elections. These are made for TV farces – cheap entertainment that is one step removed from wrestling.
Serious debate with rules and a proper moderator are nothing like this. When one side carries the day in a proper debate there is no question in any ones mind who won.
These ‘debates’ if they must persist would be best held on radio.
That would be nice, but, the way this is going, we will be back at the polls within a year.
That is, unless, PMSH grows a pair, sends out the attack dogs, er, ads, and acts a little more engaged, offering Canadians something more. Yes, we all know he’s doing a good job, but, he has to offer SOMETHING to the LIVs, the “gimme gimme” crowd, to draw some votes, TAX CUTS anybody?
We’re in for several years of minority governments, unless there’s a drastic change.
Oh, and Justin looks sophomoric, out of breath, over-emphasizing, uhhh, his words, uhhhh.
The problems with adding more tax to the few rich is two-fold. First, there are so darn few really rich people that even if you skin them good, you get next to nothing. Second, in the face of taxation people re-arrange their affairs to pay less tax. A tax hike may very well reduce government revenue. It all seems so simple to the Moron Manchild.
We won’t be back at the polls. If Harper doesn’t win a majority (and use the bloody thing!) we’ll witness at the first opportunity, both the LPOC & NDP hive off to the GG and claim they can form government on a non confidence motion….no election. It’s a plan & it IS in the works.