25 Replies to “It’s Probably Nothing”

  1. Not sure about Toronto, but in Vancouver house prices detached from wages a long time ago. Single-family houses in large Canadian cities aren’t bought by average wage earners. They’re bought by high wage earners, extended families with several incomes, and offshore money. House prices can go down in Vernon, Sechelt, and Parksville but continue to rise in Vancouver and Toronto.

  2. Who would want to buy a house in Toronto? For the amount of money that it takes to buy a house in Toronto or Vancouver, one can buy a mansion on a large chunk of land in the interior of either Ontario or BC. Rural land is quite a bit cheaper in Ontario than BC and, in my opinion, the further one is away from urban moonbat concentrations, the better.
    That, of course, assumes one has the necessary skills that one can work wherever one wants to. For those that have no skills, then they might be allowed into a house in one of Canada’s large cities if they are needed to provide personal services to the offshore owner of the property.

  3. Well the same as happened in Vancouver is already pretty advanced in Toronto. Markham is 120,000 Chinese out of 300,000 people.
    This housing bubble is mainly fed by the Chinese scum that the Harper government rolls the welcome mat for in Canada. Many people here are of the idea that Chinese millionaires come to Canada to create wealth and we should roll the welcome mat for them, but what comes here is the worst scum from the sewers of China. They do not create any wealth in Canada but come here to stash away their ill gotten fortunes away from possible reprisals from the Chinese government.
    These wealthy Chinese scum are nothing but corrupt and thieving executives from Chinese public companies and the elite of the Chinese Communist Party who are desperate to remove their fortunes from China and Canada is the logical last escape route. The Chinese “elite” can’t sleep at night knowing that they committed all sorts of illegalities to amass their fortunes including corruption, fraud and market manipulation and that the Chinese government can get them if they somehow lose their favour. The Harper government keeps feeding the bubble by importing more and more of these corrupt wealthy Chinese because if they suddenly stopped the housing market would crash as few Canadians can afford these prices. But the height of the fall will only be bigger the longer this goes on.

  4. take a deep breath, and then go to the fridge and grab a beer, relax son and be happy they stole the money from china, as, it probably come about because our companies are all over there. So they are just bringing our money back
    Oh, and do you hate ch!nks??????

  5. Ai! Chihuahua!
    House prices rise because people are willing to pay. People are willing to pay because they feel they have the disposable income and, more importantly because they see their home as a risk free investment. Let’s not get carried away with blaming the chinese, or do you folks not know ANY white people who have bought a high priced house in Vancouver?

  6. It’s not so much “hate chinks” as it is if I wanted to live somewhere where everyone around me was Chinese I would be better of moving to China that bringing China here.

  7. Reducing immigration would narrow the gap by raising median pay and lowering housing costs.

  8. Unfortunately, the world has discovered Canada. People are realizing that living in Toronto and Vancouver gives you the freedom of an ordered society, with all the amenities – dining, theatre, arts, etc. – that the ‘rich’ enjoy, all at prices considerably below those of London, New York, Paris, etc. If you were rich, living in a political powder keg (China, India, Spain, &tc.), and were looking for a place to go, where would you pick?

  9. low interest rates are the main driver of prices. if there were 10% mortgage rates prices would drop like a stone. if one had to make a 1500 dollar a month payment for every 150,000 dollars of mortgage the bottom would be so low we might not be able to find it.

  10. It’s not likely that the GTA housing market will burst, although it will experience periods of slower growth or minor dips. However, there are numerous factors that can affect it. It’s kind of like a reverse lottery. The odds are long, but it’s possible that everyone can win a 99% reduction in the value of their properties. Detroit hit the mega-jackpot just recently, btw.

  11. In ‘magnet’ cities like Vancouver and Toronto that are global economic hubs “home” can also = “high rise condo”, many of which are bought as rental income investments by wealthy non-residents. To somebody from Hong Kong, Shanghai, New Delhi or Mumbai downtown Toronto condo prices seem relatively cheap for the level of “stability” that Canada offers the owners. Yes, sooner or later every bubble bursts, but this one is largely driven by foreign buyers / investors who do NOT live here.

  12. Need to add two more lines to the graph to have the whole picture. Interest rates and money suppy. We are debasing our currencies to avoid facing the reality that North America (especially our governments) are living far beyond our means.

  13. If anyone thinks the corrupt Chinese or any “wealthy” third world foreign national is paying “their fair share in taxes” can park themselves on the moon.
    I’ve ridden business class on many a flight from Asia to Hongcouver listening to them brag to me about dual citizenships, foreign corporate addresses, and on and on to avoid paying little or no Canadian tax’s.
    I guess diversity is strength, – if you’re not a real Canadian.

  14. This is what I was getting at in the hyena thread about the $375K lawyer who was broke. People who work normal jobs, even high end jobs, can’t live near where they work in Toronto. Unless they want to live in a shoebox with hot and cold running roaches, and mice playing soccer under the cupboards. Doctor making $200k gross is living in a condo, not a house, and isn’t saving much for retirement.
    Comments above regarding foreign money buying those houses makes sense. If you drive around downtown Toronto these days and think back to the way things were in the 1990’s, the whole middle of town is getting hollowed out. Yonge and Bloor area is basically large chain stores like Gap, and even most of them have left. Small stores and restaurants on Yonge and in Yorkville keep popping up and dying within a year, even the huge foot traffic can’t drive enough sales to keep them alive with the horrific rent they have to pay. Those falling-down buildings are all worth over five to six million bucks, and the sales can’t support the interest payments.
    The result is a kind of desertification. Its like the water gets drawn away and the businesses die, leaving a skeleton forest that’s too expensive for anyone to do anything with.
    All the fancy shopping and boutique stores are moving to the outskirts of Oakville, Mississauga, Markham, Ajax etc. The middle is just sort of petrifying, becoming fossilized.
    Add in the idiot maneuvering of Kathleen Wynne and her Liberal clown circus, you can see the handwriting is on the wall for the 416. They’re going to price themselves right out of business.
    Downtown Detroit used to be a happening place once upon a time.

  16. so that’s were Paul “avoid taxes” Martin lives, is it
    Pretty much every one I know that works and pays taxes tries to avoid them as much as they can, so what really is your point here, is it that the Chinese are a little too white in their ways, or is your envy just hanging out, I get rather tired of listening to fools complain about successful immigrants, when they are just too lazy to work harder them selves

  17. The proper way to deal with tax avoidance by the rich is to compete with tax havens.
    Lower the top rate to 15%, and money will flow in. Expats have to pay tax somewhere, so they use tax haven countries as their official residence or flag under which to incorporate.
    Compete with them, instead of whining about them.

  18. This will end in tears. Garth Turner did a blog post on an ugly detached house in a very sketch neighbourhood that recently sold for over $800,000. That’s insane. I just hope the rest of us don;t have to bail out the banks or CMHC when this goes down the crapper.

  20. Its all connected guys.. Toronto goes down it will take southern Ontario with it.. Demand is demand and there is nothing we can do about it..
    Even if it does crash it will hit hardest in the rural areas.. A lot of 905ers will be trying to sell to cut the commute.. A glut in a crashing market.. Nobody will want to sell in Toronto if they dont have to.. Just bank foreclosures..
    Then its back to tight supply driving prices up.. With the rural property value lagging behind, as it always does..
    Dont ever forget your Neighbor wants to bail out of that one horse town if they can.. My neighbor has to be bribed out.. Its called demand..

  21. This is exactly what happened down in the US before the big mortgage implosion. But I keep hearing “it’ll never happen here in Canada.”

  22. Darn right it can happen, and it will..
    My point is its all connected.. Toronto isnt gonna crash and not take the surrounding 250 km with it.. Its not so much the entertainment or the phony culture its the jobs and the social options that living in a big city offer..
    Most people need more than Church, bowling and the local legion..
    Its hard enough to invent yourself in a small town never mind reinvent yourself..
    Most of all you need money to live out in the country so you can buy all the necessary toys, boats, bikes, snowmobiles, ect.. Without them your are marooned.. Banging nails for free for some rich asshole..
    Country living 🙂

  23. Jay notes:
    Most people need more than Church, bowling and the local legion..
    If you think that’s all there is to small town living, you’ve never lived in a small town.
    I spent over a decade living in downtown Vancouver and when I finally moved out I couldn’t think of a more hellish place to live. One thinks there are lots of things go do in a city, but just try to go to a concert when the tickets sell out in the first hour they’re offered for sale. Sure, one can pay a scalper an exorbitant rate for a ticket but the net result is that any musical event is essentially not available. Going to bars is also impossible. They demand a drivers license, which I refuse to show, and also use metal detectors on everyone who wants to get in. Where I live now allows me to check my knife whereas in Vancouver they confiscate knives or deny you entry. Traffic in Vancouver is so bad that one can only get to one location in a day. Going to the range from downtown Vancouver meant 3+ hours driving for 30 minutes of shooting. Where I live now I can drive to the range in 15 minutes and enjoy very private target practice. Stores in Vancouver are always crowded and very expensive. One doesn’t have a choice if one lives downtown as the cost of driving to a cheaper supermarket exceeds any savings one might get in cheaper food.
    Sure it’s nice, in theory, to have access to lots of restaurants within easy walking distance, but one can’t just go and have the food one wants as the first 3-4 restaurants one plans on going to are totally full with long lineups. All of the small interesting stores in Vancouver are gone and in the last few years I lived there the bulk of my purchases were made either in the interior of BC or over the internet. Getting a cab via telephone in Vancouver is next to impossible, especially if there’s some major event happening in town or a cruise ship has docked. The only way I could get cabs was to go to a major hotel to hail a cab and then walk back from wherever I was going to as I wasn’t about to wait 2-3 hours for a cab in Kitsilano. Also, vehicle breakins were a very frequent event with braindead Vancouver junkies thinking nothing before smashing a window to grab a quarter that was on the seat inside the vehicle.
    I used to wake up in a cold sweat worrying about some SHTF event occurring and thinking of the problems of getting out of Vancouver. At least downtown Vancouver is the safest place to be during an earthquake but the city got to be far too claustrophobic for me to stay there.
    In the end, I decided that Vancouver was basically a shithole with nice views and I even avoid visiting the place now. About the only thing that might bring me back there would be to visit Wreck Beach during the summer assuming that one little idyl pocket hasn’t also been destroyed during the remaking of Vancouver.
    I live in a hick town now and have the ability to do far far more than I was able to when living in Vancouver and sometimes wonder about my sanity given how long I lived there.

  25. Essentially, houses are being priced away from affordability for average families. Rent lags house prices, in many cases so badly that my rent is less than the interest on the mortgage, and upkeep on the same house would be if I bought it.
    If rents begin to rise drastically in response to this, then Toronto is going to be less and less attractive a place to live and work, and it literally prices itself out of the labour market. Saskatchewan and Alberta are calling…
    …And I don’t give a s**t about good sushi, as long as I can save enough for a nice house on about an acre, with lots of land nearby for my kids to grow up on! Western Canada, here we come!

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