As Leader of the Opposition from 1963 to 1967, and as a backbencher until his death on Aug. 16 1979, the MP from Prince Albert vigorously opposed just about every aspect of the new national identity that was being forged.
When Diefenbaker saw the Red Ensign replaced by the Maple Leaf flag, he saw a century of Canada’s history being erased. When he saw Canada being re-defined, first as two nations and later as a collection of many groups defined by their ethnicity, he saw Confederation being dismantled.
A five part series at the Prince Albert Herald.
The Canadian Red Ensign represented everything that was great about this country.
The Pearson flag, since its inception, only serves to represent everything that has gone wrong with it.
I still will only wave the Red Ensign.
Sadly Dief’s “Bill of Rights” never became the Law of the Land!
I am risking the wrath of SDA EDitor Kate McMillan by Posting the following email here as opposed to READER TIPS thread, emailed to Our PM Stephen Harper, on August 27,advising him to stay to hell out of the dog fight among the G assholes in the mid-east.
I think he is listening.
……………………………………………………………………………………………
Dear Mr. Prime Minister,
I AM
Joseph Molnar, Canadian Citizen, in Woodstock, Ontario, Canada.
I humbly offer this advice to you in the light of the Monster Administration murdering their own citizens by means of Poison Gas in the Country of Syria.
Leave the citizens of Syria deal with their own misfortune, Sir!
Leave Canada out of the mess!
And most certainly, do not trust the Russian bastard Putin!
Nor, for that matter the American President OBAMA, currently turning the USA into a SOCIALIST BOAR’S NEST.
Withdraw Canada from that SYRIAN dog fight and concentrate on Canada’s Northern Frontier and butt heads with the Russians on our own turf in our NORTH, not in Syria whom he now ARMS covertly..
Sad as it is for the people of Syria to be murdered by their own administration, let the area ARABS and Syrian citizens deal with the bastard Syrian Administration and not Canada.
I AM,
Joe Molnar
SNIP
Post Script:
Will you listen to one of Your OWN, Mr. Prime Minister?
J.
Over all I think Deif was a good PM a statesman of the stature of Laurier. PET’s significance to the nation has been horribly distorted, for political reasons. PET was no doubt a communist-statist who wanted to consolidate political and economic power in Ottawa as opposed to Deif who was a stanch populist-Confederalist who embraced social justice and was more concerned with Ottawa exceeding its jurisdictions with provinces or individuals. Both leaders have been romanticized/demonized to the point of legend but I believe Deif’s true legacy was that of a man who truly, deeply loved his country and its nationhood while PET was unhappy with Canada and hoped to remake it in the model of his statist socialist mentors.
Just a few Deif facts – he was born and raised in Neustadt Ont. – He ran 4 deficit budgets – he was a renown criminal defense lawyer, a devoted fly fisherman – was the first Canadian PM to champion international human rights – was deeply disturbed by/wary of the US Military-industrial complex.
I co-sign your letter Joe.
We have enough potential problems with people from that part of the world who are calling themselves citizens of Canada who go back to their “homeland” and we have no idea whose
“side” they’re on. Of course if they get into trouble they know who to call upon to rescue them.
Would love to have Dief around just to hear him chuckle at what the Liberals have chosen as leader and are billing as the next Prime Minister.
I came of political age with PET. I thought Pearson was a pansy but felt good about Dief even as the press made him a caricature towards the end. For many he represented the stodgy statist culture of the ’50’s.
The truly unfair Dief legacy was the killing of the Avro Aero. Yes he killed it as he should have. There was no way the USA military was going to put trust in Canadian technology when the Canadian system was fully infiltrated by Russian spies. Dief recognized a money pit and killed it.
Dief’s big problem, as is Harper’s, is that he was a conservative from Western Canada. Eastern Canadians are no different than eastern Americans. The ability to govern intelligently only resides in the east. Young Turdeau says it like it is the best PM’s in Canadian history have come from the east.
Two words for Deif: Avro Arrow.
That is all.
I would agree, and if you haven’t already read Bob Plamondon’s book, “The Truth About Trudeau” I would highly recommend it, as there is plenty of evidence presented regarding Trudeau’s Marxism.
Diefenbaker, the last time there was planned infrastructure in the Northwest Territories.
If Diefenbaker’s ,road to resources had been completed, the NWT would be a very different region today.
Instead we thank you southern taxpayers for our annual handout and grouse about how hard done by our welfare based communities are.
You say that like its a bad thing. In some ways it was Deifs greatest moment a sensible thing that I doubt even PMSH would have had the courage to do. If only he had seen that AECLand Candu was an even greater boondoggle…
It was the Liberal parties flag from the get go. From its colour to a maple leaf.
No blue borders allowed because we all know Ontario & Quebec is the REAL Canada.We the colonies.
Its still that way, except for minor changes.As the East panders to the child J Trudeau.
I don’t really care about the Avro Arrow. What he didn’t do, that he should have. Was created our own Nuclear defence program.
Made sure the West was fire walled from Eastern predation.
Anyone who thinks the huge American and/or British aircraft industries were going to allow their military buy the product of an unimportant lesser Country like Canada is dreaming in technicolor. American and British protectionism was firmly entrenched at the time.
The media have moaned over this for fifty years,and I wonder, had the PM had been Liberal,if the whole thing would have died out years ago.
Dief was one of the few politicians who actually loved this Country, in a deep down emotional way,just like we peasants are constantly exhorted to when they want us to die for it.
He made mistakes,same as anybody who ever sat in the PM’s office,but it’s a shame the media have pumped this idea that he killed what could have been Canada’s shining moment in aerospace technology,and made that his legacy.
Dief’s biggest “fault” was that he refused to pander to Quebec,and while he wanted their participation in Canada, was not about to be blackmailed by that Province to the detriment of the ROC,as every PM since has done. Dief rightly believed a Party could win Canada with or without Quebec,an idea which was anathema to Mulroney.
Brian Mulroney worshipped Dief,and worked with him from the time he was a teenager, but in the end, he stabbed Dief in the back, for pragmatism’s sake,and Dief never forgave him.
While critics and haters of Deif will always point to “the Arrow” as his legacy,they never stop to consider the legacy of their (usually) hero,Pierre Trudeau,which in my opinion, has had a hell of a lot more negative effect on this Country than Dief’s cancelling a military research program.
The Phantom “Two words for Deif: Avro Arrow. That is all. ”
I guess if we had the Arrow, we wouldn’t have lost that big war in the early 1960s. You know, the one I can’t remember.
The Arrow died because the world entered the missile age, with the launching of Sputnik, on the very day of the Arrow’s first test flight. The Americans didn’t want to buy another long range bomber interceptor, especially at C$12million each in 1959; frankly, they weren’t interested in buying off the shelf equipment/fighters from Canada. With economies of scale no longer available, the project was doomed. OTOH the Arrow design was ahead of its time and some argue helped pave the way for the multi role fighters used today. It’s a shame we don’t have one of the prototypes and that fact feeds into a mystery even today.
Diefenbaker was bladed by his party, orchestrated by Dalton Camp (this is a matter of faith in my family) on the “Night of the Knives,” in classic Progressive Conservative cannibalistic fashion. Diefenbaker was the bridge to a newly emerging Canada, seeing itself as more than a Dominion while staunchly honouring her roots. Pearson offered a segue to the ever burgeoning state and debt of the Trudeau era, marked by the Peter Brimelow observation that while PET didn’t think the state had any business in the bedrooms of the nation, he felt it did in every other room!
I’ve always lived in the west. I’ve never lived anywhere where maple trees go wild. When I see our flag, I see an eastern symbol to represent all of us. It makes sense in a way, with so many in the centre-of-the-universe thinking that way.
The Diefenb**ger, a contemptible pipsqueak. It is all very well to blather on about the “missile age”, but the USAF still has long-range interceptors (of course they put AIMs on them), and we ended up buying the F-101. There is still one in Calgary BTW. Even worse, the Orenda Iroquois engine was a remarkable achievement, and the cancellation of the Arrow also marked the end of Canadian aeroengine development.
I might add that the Diefen*****’s political ineptitude severely damaged the Conservative Party and ushered in the Age of Trudeau.
Joey Smallwood, who obviously had dealings with the Diefenb*****, said that he was a man who “loved the froth and bubble” of high office, but was too lazy for the hard work which it also entails.
John Lewis “and we ended up buying the F-101”
For you to be so concerned, we must have lost an inordinate amount of these in combat in the big war of the early 1960s. You know, the one I can’t remember. A standing military in peace time is a colossal waste of cash. Not only do we have 60,000 bodies employed in busy work, we have 30,000 civilians employed to feed them pablum and wipe their butts. Peace time is why they invented reserves, you know the ones the regular military is 1 1/2 year behind in paying. You know the reserves, the ones the bureaucrats and generals hate because it’s had to build an empire on people working for next to nothing.
“hard to build” an empire not “had to build”
Shamrock said: “The Arrow died because the world entered the missile age, with the launching of Sputnik, on the very day of the Arrow’s first test flight.”
Tell the Russians. They are still flying Bear bombers over the North Pole every week to rattle NORAD’s chain.
The Arrow died because Diefenbaker was at loggerheads with the CEO of AVRO in a personal p1ssing contest. There were technical issues, most notably the way the engines were mounted, but really it was pretty much down to Dief not getting what he wanted. Both of them acted like idiots, with the result that the entire Canadian aerospace industry died in one day. Bombardier finally bought the ruins and made puddle jumpers with government grant money, and today Downsview airport houses an unsuccessful hockey rink or something equally important.
If the Arrow had been built it would most likely still be flying, probably in follow-on upgraded models as the Saab Grippen does. The Arrow was built to do the job Canada needed done, to face down Soviet bombers in the arctic. You need a big, fast, long range aircraft that can carry a lot of fuel, a lot of missiles and a great big radar to guide the weapons in. Nothing the RCAF has flown since did that job as well as the Arrow, up to and including the CF-18.
Phantom, I never said the bomber threat disappeared, just that it was largely displaced by the ICBM. Canada could no longer afford a fighter of the sophistication, for its time, of the CF105 for what would primarily be a bomber interceptor mission – there is no comparison whatsoever IMHO between the CF105 and the CF18 or other modern fighters. It was a pipe dream that its cost could be offset by foreign sales, and it was the Liberals, not Diefenbaker that made that misjudgement. By 1959 the projected cost per aircraft (not full life cycle as used today)was $12million which translates into about $100 million each today and they still hadn’t perfected the engines and other systems or even put the aircraft into production.
There were better cost alternatives like the Voodoo and the CF104 Starfighter, which ended up being called the Widowmaker and Lockheed Lawn Dart because it was not even used for bomber interception, but questionably as a close air support aircraft, with its single engine and stubby wings. The decision to purchase the Bomarc missile was an attempt by the RCAF to salvage something out of the cancellation and represented the only (I think) Canadian use of nuclear weapons technology. Another idea might have been to scale down the Arrow project but that never happened.
There is a lot of mystique around this aircraft, I believe centred around the strange decision to destroy all the prototypes, and its cancellation feeds into the Walter Gordon Canadian nationalism, lament for a nation, anti-US sentiment.
I do not agree it could operate today, even in a Wild Weasel type of anti-SAM role, which ends up being the retirement mission for front line fighters; it still represented 50s technology and there was nothing great about the airframe. Yes Diefenbaker let personal pettiness into the argument and Avro acted stupidly after the cancellation, firing everybody on the spot, who promptly went into the covetous arms of NASA.
It’s possible to like Dief and dislike his decision on the Arrow. I’m with Phantom, as usual. Putting aside arguments of whether the Arrow would be flying today, Canada’s likelihood of fielding domestically produced aircraft suited to our unique needs would be much greater if Dief hadn’t killed the Arrow program. We should be exporting aircraft to the eurofags today, not scrambling to find some overpriced, ill suited import.
Oh and we were packing nukes on Voodoos well into the 80s.
The Avro was a redundancy and several times more expensive than its piloted alternatives. The ICBM, the modern SAM and a glut of options for the US and allies meant the the arrow had no market. Politically speaking additional dirt was thrown on the grave by the Chief’s decision to not have nuclear icbms – which pissed off the americans and the brits to no end and arguably ended any chance – remote though it was – that they would buy it.
Some additional perspective: the avro arrow was a hangover from WW2 – a large manufacturing plant was built in Ontario to build airplanes for that war. After it ended we had a large surplus of aviation manufacturing infrastructure and human capital – mostly brits and most of them very socialist/union-minded – as was much of the UK at the time. the Arrow was the last gasp on the military airframe front to justify this suplus’ existence. It was rightly terminated and the socialist employees and management – assisted by their fellow travellers in Ontario and Quebec media raised holy heck. The decrepit remains limped along for years after in the civilian airframe business – heavily subsidized, militantly unionized and feeding off of the guilt and political capital the cancelling of the arrow generated. What happened wasn’t much different than the trajectory that the UK auto industry took. And it too deserved what it got.
Same here. Let’s not forget they were ‘*PROGRESSIVE conservatives‘, not CONSERVATIVES!!!
Harper should have never let the PROGRESSIVES merge with the Reformers, never.
PC’s have been and always will be nothing more than caretakers of the Liberal Legacy(TM) until the Liberals(Real Progressives) can retake power.
*their purpose is to prevent real Conservatives from rolling back socialism
Avro went bust for the same reason McDonnell Douglas and Lockheed effectively did: management errors.
By its nature, the development of a modern aircraft is so capital intensive that the commitment to developing it requires betting the company on it, and the existence of a single customer compounds the risk.
The industrial infrastructure argument for the Arrow was not sufficient to save it because of its weak management.
I was never one of Dief’s biggest fans. In fact there weren’t too many of his policies I agreed with. One policy I still support was finishing off what the Liberals were about to do right after the election and that was kill the Arrow. There has been much ballyhoo about the greatness of the plane and fortunately for the Arrow fanatics none of them flew enough to prove those much vaunted numbers. From the history I have read on the subject it didn’t have enough engine, the avionics were antiquated, it was way way way behind production targets, the Brits cancelled their order because they believed the design was obsolete before it flew. The RCAF also stated they no longer wanted the Arrow. In fact the only people who wanted it were the Ontario priders who thought that if you threw enough government money at a project you could form a great nation. Unfortunately the prairie farmers were the ones footing the bill.
Let’s look at it another way. Would we be better or worse off today if Dief had cancelled the CBC and kept the Arrow?
Phantom has it right in that there was a pissing contest between Dief and the head of the arrow program, and that the arrow was completely destroyed was a result of that pissing contest. the arrow was damn costly and as sum have mentioned, orders were being cancelled, so the prospect of offsetting development costs diminished. Also the americans didn’t want the program to continue so that they could attract many of the works south of the border, which is what happened. Another factor is that it would have competed directly with what became the SR-71, which started as a “thought” in 59 and flew in 63, and was the first aircraft that was “stealth” designed.
Joe, you should stick to reading your useless bible because , as usual, you haven’t a clue as to what the hell you are talking about, the Arrow performed damn well with the “wrong” engines, and the Iroquois engine was a huge success, so the arrow would have exceeded expectations
and for some other nah sayers, yes it could have been the basis for a successful aerspace industry.
Well Max I did say I didn’t agree with Dief very often didn’t I? He kept the CBC – I don’t don’t think that was a good idea.
Gord Tulk has it right on the Avro. The Soviet development of ICBM technology rendered the plane obsolete.
Diefenbaker was right about the Liberal flag. One of the original designs had blue bars but Pearson more or less vetoed that idea and forced the red on Canada. The color was appropriate after PET became PM.
Diefenbaker was a plain out idiot