One burning African village at a time;
The case twists around an emerging multibillion-dollar market trading carbon-credits under the Kyoto Protocol, which contains mechanisms for outsourcing environmental protection to developing nations.
The company involved, New Forests Company, grows forests in African countries with the purpose of selling credits from the carbon-dioxide its trees soak up to polluters abroad. Its investors include the World Bank, through its private investment arm, and the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, HSBC.
In 2005, the Ugandan government granted New Forests a 50-year license to grow pine and eucalyptus forests in three districts, and the company has applied to the United Nations to trade under the mechanism. The company expects that it could earn up to $1.8 million a year.
But there was just one problem: people were living on the land where the company wanted to plant trees. Indeed, they had been there a while.
Related: Saving the planet one shuttered industry at a time.
This has been going on in Brazil for 10 years. “Between 2000 and 2002, The Nature Conservancy set up a deal with three of the world’s biggest greenhouse gas polluters: General Motors, Chevron and American Electric Power. (TNC seems to be particularly chummy with AEP, the biggest coal burner in the USA. AEP is also involved in TNC’s Noel Kempff project.) The companies handed over a total of US$18 million to TNC, to invest in forests and to offset their emissions… There are many people living in and around the reserves in Guaraqueçaba. TNC’s position on these people is clear. “The carbon idea is not really tangible to people in the community,” Miguel Calmon, the Nature Conservancy’s director of forests and climate in Latin America told Schapiro. “You can’t go into these private reserves. That land is not their land anyway. If you used to go [into the forest] from your house across the road, now you can’t. That land is already owned.”
http://www.redd-monitor.org/2009/11/06/injustice-on-the-carbon-frontier-in-guaraquecaba-brazil/
Perhaps Herman Cain reads sda.
Herman says Kyoto and climate alarmism is a scam. (He just blew everyone out of the water with 37% in Florida straw poll)
“Garbage in, garbage out: How climate scientists perpetrated their scam.” HC
http://www.economicfreedomcoalition.com/news/press-opinion-121209.asp
John Brignell still has the best definition of sustainable development.
“Western eco-paradise built on the bodies of millions of dead Africans.”
But it makes them fell good in Berkeley and downtown Toronto . . all Gaia warm & fuzzy.
What’s a few million dead Africans ?
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/017907.html#c647058
Is there such a thing as Ethical Carbon Credits? Not that it matters since carbon credits, like oil, are fungible so where they come from, how they are produced and who profits apparently doesn’t matter. At least that is what I am told by J.Kay and the rest of our moral and intellectual superiors. Its odd how speculative psuedo-sciences like eugenics, DDT bans and now CO2 centered climate change, that cause so much misery and death in their wake, are always supported by the MSM of the day – to make the world a better place in the future, of course. At least the NYT doesn’t completely ignore the abuses caused by the AGW industry. I have not heard the Cdn. media talk at all about politically created droughts in Cali, energy poverty in the UK, (suspected) dam mismanagement floods in Oz or AGW business refugees.
LC, supposedly there are so-called ethical carbon credits. They are the things recognized by the administrative body set up by the COP/MOP process (aka Kyoto treaty). They created a body to administer the process of recognizing and certifying the value of supposed carbon credits.
The problem (all right, there were a legion of problems) was that even at the very beginning their process took two to three years to process the applications from even very small projects. So, everyone disregarded them and their finicky attention to the Kyoto carbon trading mechanisms.
Hence the massive scams and boondoggles of fake credits that came out of Denmark and a few other places back in 2007.
The drawbacks of the speculative pseudo-sciences to which you refer are always ignored by lefties and the MSM because they are all utopians. Since their premise of how the universe works is wrong, all of their perceptions about it will be wrong as well.
I agree, cgh.
You’d think that after the scientific felonies, carbon trading scams and green energy frauds have come to light the sane journalists would be searching for a way to gracefully run away from their previous support of man-made climate change nonsense. Taking the moral high ground offered by these various scams would give them the perfect opportunity to denounce AGW (without having to claim a David Brooks style sap excuse).
Is there such a thing as Ethical Carbon Credits?
No.
Why?
Because the problem which carbon credits are supposed to ameliorate DOESN’T EXIST(AGW is a fraud) ,therefore anything predicated on the false premise that carbon should be restricted to mitigate AGW is fundamentally immoral.
Well they did say climate change was going to kill people, thus they’re using mercenaries to do the climate’s job for them. Wanna bet no criminal charges will be laid?
I agree, Oz.
Last week much of the MSM and their economists were talking about oil as a fungible commodity. Therefore, they said, ‘Ethical oil’ was a meaningless term. I was curious if those people feel the same about carbon credits, which are also fungible, after reading stories like this.
A start./compassionate enviro-lib-leftie
rather than feed african hungry areas
first test thos african for any AIDS or any desease
if they heathy to move them for security check next
then
bring them with ship to West like refugee
to other country
educate them and feed them this way is better to let them to stay hungry and keep feed them
may add another 20 million hungry add to US population that they can get find thier job soon and cheap salary too
One of the most famous quotes of the Vietnam War was,
“We had to destroy the village in order to save it.”
We also had another quote concerning idiot government leaders and greedy corporations..
Word for word,
“We are shooting the wrong sons a bitches”..
We should be cautious when repeating things ‘everybody knows’ or that sound good in a media clip…a lot of ‘famous’ Vietnam quotes and ‘truths’ were and are utter horsepucky… for one example:
far from being a ‘staggering defeat for the US’ as reporters who weren’t even there claimed, the VC pretty much ceased to exist as a fighting force after they were thoroughly routed and the NVA were forced to take over their invasion openly instead of pretending to ‘only protect the North’
and for another….the quote above…
…Peter Arnett once claimed that a U.S. army major had told him Americans had to destroy the village of Ben Tre to save it from the Viet Cong during the Tet offensive. But Arnett never verified, much less produced, his source–and the town was mostly shelled by the Communists anyway. An exhaustive investigation by the Pentagon never found any such official who said anything such thing.
Given Arnett’s later “scoops” about the purported American use of Sarin gas in Southeast Asia and his more recent versions of the truth beamed back from Baghdad Bob’s Iraq, we can rightly question whether the adage more likely reflected the cynicism of a jaded reporter than the doctrine of a soldier on the ground. A good rule is, when you hear Arnett’s fabrication promulgated on the news, assume that it is once again being used for its original purposes of distortion–like the example of Jenin when it was still neat to say that the Israelis had unleashed a Leningrad to save the city from terrorists.
Nevertheless, the quip has entered the popular culture, and it supposedly illustrates how sophisticated journalists alone can stand back and “really see” what is going on…
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/212984/misplaced-metaphors/victor-davis-hanson
Ace has a good post summarizing this topic:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/321843.php
The kicker (IMHO) is how they’re introducing non-native species into these areas, particularly the eucalyptus, which sucks up water and is so oily it burns like madness if ignited. Just what semi-arid regions need.
And from Greenpeace? Crickets.
Well what can you expect from people who can’t understand that a protected golden eagle isn’t capable of avoiding a 100 km/h windmill blade.
Or that the battery in their Prius has a bigger carbon footprint than a 1984 GMC truck.
Logic is not a factor in this equation; however when will we finally stop them is.
At the center of green politics, and now climate politics, is a global population control agenda. It shows quite starkly here. Don’t tell me the negative repercussions of carbon economics on the 3rd world are “unintended consequences” or collateral “justified loss” for a greater cause. The Green “cause” at the upper political levels was and always has been depopulation – an anything that aids it.
Again more in your face proof that the Liberal Left hates black people!
I thought the second link was more important – that the EPA is trying to add 230,000 bureaucrats to enforce their stealth cap-and-trade on CO2 emissions. Under their proposals, any institution that uses any significant amount of natural gas will have to buy carbon credits. This isn’t just power plants or hospitals; it could include a large home that heats the house and water, and cooks with, gas. So what will happen – EPA goons – er – inspectors knocking on your door in the middle of the evening to do a carbon audit on your home? God forbid you have a wood burning fire place.
I have been harping on this for a couple of weeks, but this is the clearest evidence yet: the neo-fascists want to hire A QUARTER OF A MILLION people to probe every aspect of your business and your home life.
If the Republicans do win the presidency and both houses in 2012, the biggest question I have is will they have the cojones to disband the EPA? Sadly, I think the answer is no.
If the Republicans do win the presidency and both houses in 2012, the biggest question I have is will they have the cojones to disband the EPA? Sadly, I think the answer is no.
Posted by: KevinB at September 26, 2011 9:54 PM
No, for sure.
Cripes, Pawlenty was the only one with guts to speak out against ethanol…and look where he’s sitting.
Like a lot of their ‘Conservative’ farm brethren this side of the border, corn-belt Republicans are only opposed to socialist largesse when it flows to other folks.
Jamie MacMaster: Not a bad point, but straw men have a tendency to blow away in the wind; yes most politicians are crooked, but given the choice between enviro-nazi and people who at least try to give a sh*t about the working man can you really say that Al Gore is a good man? A wise man?
Or is he a greedy d-bag selling a new religion.
Bemused, the VC was in fact wiped out twice, the first time by the US by 1967 and the second time by the US and South Vietnam by 1971. In both cases a principal reason for the NVA attacks in Tet and Year of the Rat was to revive the VC. The US strategic problem was that it didn’t have enough strength to both squash the VC and keep the NVA contained.
LC, not really. Most of the media, and I was one once in commercial trade publications, have had absolutely no real world working experience. Their technical background is zero, their economic understanding is primitive at best. So the only way they have to accept anything is true is purely by faith without any basis in knowledge whatsoever. And the green utopian narrative fits their naive world view. No one ever gives up this kind of utopianism without a complete crash and burn. Because the only people they believe in tell them that the great smash will never happen.
I’ve sat in enough press conferences to understand just how truly stupid so many of these people are. At nearly every one, particularly those concerned with energy matters, the CBC reporter would come in with a Greenpeace apparatchik whispering in his or her ear. You have to have actually worked in the media to understand just how degraded so much of it is. And it’s televangelism which is the worst. Print is a little better, but not much.
Oz, we were speaking only of what the greenies define as ethical credits, not whether they are ethical in any meaningful sense of the word. But yes, these idiots pretend that they are fungible if it’s been certified by the UN COP/MOP process. Of course it’s insanity, but we’re dealing with people who don’t live in anything resembling the real world. You should go to a COP conference some time just to have the hellish experience of listening to the incomprehensible jargon surrounding this garbage.
KevinB, 80 years ago, they were called Brownshirts. Disband the EPA? Lamentably, not a chance. Name me one bureaucracy in any OECD nation that’s been disbanded in the past 50 years. Bureaucracies are only disbanded by violent revolution aka the fall of the Roman Empire.
great another reason to kill people. As if had a lack of them. The Greens now have blood on their hands. Nothing from these progresive tree’s of death, bears any fruit but death.
These idiologies have becone acidic to mankind.
But the mother-of-all bureaucracies, the USSR, disbanded with hardly a whimper. Perhaps the fascist climate alarmist movement will also.
correct, cgh..I used the Tet example because it’s recognizeable since even today the moonbats spin it as a huge loss for the US instead of the massacre for the VC that it was and if the US had ignored the media and prosecuted the advantage they had gained, things may well have ended differently than they did…but when your own TV news is aiding and abetting the enemy, it’s a bit difficult..and the trend continues today.
message for gore….
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0905/hello-al-gore-global-warming-demotivational-poster-1243126709.jpg
More proof that AGW is a death cult.
A lot of sour grapes here. I for one admire the concept of making millions of dollars by trading absolutely nothing. Just wish I would have thought of it first. It never occured to me that people would be stupid enough to fall for such a scam. Got to hand it to the Goracle. He knew.
And when the trees grows old and die, and stop soaking up carbon-dioxide?
Then what happens?
The trees fall in the forest, decompose, and in doing so unsoak all the stuff they previously soaked.
ron in kelowna: I think you might be on to something— bullies and cowards (in my experience)
always seem to crawl back into the woodwork after they try to take what they have not earned and get fought off.
makes one think a bit?
“…I for one admire the concept of making millions of dollars by trading absolutely nothing…”
Posted by: peterj at September 27, 2011 1:53 AM
Well, I must admit to admiring – and maybe even being envious of – many people. But never because of their ability to decieve people.
“…I for one admire the concept of making millions of dollars by trading absolutely nothing…”
Posted by: peterj at September 27, 2011 1:53 AM
Well, I must admit to admiring – and maybe even being envious of – many people. But never because of their ability to decieve people.
Jamie MacMaster:
Where I’m from that’s called a a dirty trick; but
the “new school post normal” scientists say that’s completely normal as they cash the grant cheque…
Ron, the USSR may have vanished, but the bureaucracies that ran it simply changed their names and continued on, same as happened in Russia with the fall of the Romanovs. The Czarist Cheka became the NKVD which became the KGB. In the latest regime change they didn’t even change the name of the state police.
cgh, the (progressive) media is really that clueless? Actually, I guess that explains quite a bit.
KevinB
Sadly I think your right.
There are always snags in these little plans.
Some people are concept people and some people are details people. And some people are just silly.
LC, when it comes to science, technology or anything involving large numbers they are utterly clueless. Remember, most of them are journalism students. In all possibility and perhaps even likelihood, the last time they had a course in science and mathematics was Grade 10.
The best of them are the business reporters, because usually they had to take at least a business course or two. Compare the number of science reporters today compared to say 25 years ago. They’ve vanished from the print media. The only one I know of offhand is the chap on CBC radio, who’s not too bad unless it’s about global warming.
The most depressing experience I ever had was attending a press conference by ABB. They were flogging their new high speed rail system as an alternative to TGV. I was the only trade press there. The rest were MSM. Well, you should have heard the questions. Zilch technical understanding. The questions were all about what ABB was going to “contribute to Canada’s high speed rail project”. Not one of them seemed to grasp that this was a product that ABB was offering FOR SALE. Not one, single question about the technical capabilities of the rail technology. Not one.
I knew the President, because I’d interviewed him at great length in Vesteros about six months before about the huge changes going on in the international electrical manufacturers. I talked with him after it was over, and he said that all press conferences like this were pretty much EGO affairs (eyes glaze over) where the MSM was concerned.
And this was 20 years ago. Things have certainly not got better since.
That said, there is an elite, a very tiny elite, that have acquired Masters degrees in some discipline other than journalism. And many of them are some of the most arrogant snots you’ve ever imagined. Jeffrey Simpson is a good example. In a sense, these ones can be worse. Some already think they know it all.