“I’m obviously as a finance minister disappointed by the results but not altogether surprised,” said Falcon in a press conference in Victoria.
“I’m obviously as a finance minister disappointed by the results but not altogether surprised,” said Falcon in a press conference in Victoria.
Well, if the Libs really want to make businesses more competitive now – eliminate the carbon tax.
Colin in BC.
NO, the whole point wasn’t to simplify the tax.
The whole point was to increase taxes.
The HST INCREASED taxes by expanding the incidence of the PST. Period.
Tax simplification was NOT the object but of course this ruse was used to sell the propaganda.
And the dumb business community went for it evidently not understanding the most basic of basic economics: when more money is taken out of the pockets of the consuming public, business suffers.
And oh, when business declines, that’s an administrative convenience too, eh? Less business, few transactions, easier book keeping. Geez.
If there had been a referendom before the tax was introduced I would have voted against it.
Once it was here, it would be costly to get rid of so I voted to keep it.
Consider this:
I work for a trucking company, log hauling. The forest industry (largest industry in BC) is on the skids. My boss had 20 trucks and would replace 3 or 4 every year, but when the industry went south 3 years ago he put off buying new trucks, and when the crash came 2 years ago he just about went under. He’s now down to 14 trucks and they need replacing. The lumber market hasn’t improved, so what to do? Get out, throwing 20 people out of work, or buy new trucks? What does a new truck cost, $200,000? With the re-imposition of the PST the price goes up by $14,000 per truck. Plus the contractor he hauls for and the forest company they log for have their costs go up as well. The money has to come from somewhere. Rates and wages will be cut, including my income. Gee, thanks Van der Zalm! And should the US economy go back into recession (as seems inevitable) that increased cost may well be enough for the forest company to shut down, throwing hundreds out of work plus thousands of support industry workers and all the places we would have spent our money.
Which would be better, thousands employed paying HST or no HST and thousands unemployed with no money to spend in the economy?
Voting to repeal the HST? Stupid, stupid stupid, especially in this economy.
Dirtman, your posting is landing on deaf ears, seeing that under Gordon Campbell’s Liberals forest industry towns have all but been decimated. Logging industry companies used to support local businesses and USED TO contribute a lot to small towns. What do they do now? Not much! Industry entities, after mergers, don’t seem to care much about their workers as people and they sure don’t contribute much to community infrastructure in the way they used to do. Companies such as Interfor bought the global warming agenda long ago.
The BC Liberals should cut the carbon tax or be booted out.
Dirtman, this victory of the people over the Crown is far greater than the issue of you and your thirteen friends getting new Kenworths.
With more than 40 years of experience in the forest industry of BC, I can assure you that most of your problems as a forest worker today is the result of poor forest policies since about 1976 – problems caused by the Provincial Government.
What happened today will force future BC governments to reflect more on effects before they implement policy change.
Dirtman,
It’s operating costs vs capital costs. How much a year does the carbon tax cost per truck? Why did he stop screaming about the carbon tax? … they were screaming when it was first brought in.
The owners bet on the wrong horse.
Business had an opportunity to say no to the nonsense … they didn’t. Blame them.
The Liberals completely misplayed their hand.
If they had any sense they would have rolled out the abolition of the PST with a sparkler; reducing the rate to 5% and thus resulting in a combined rate of 10% HST.
People would have grumbled but it would likely have passed muster.
Instead, the Liberals decided to ‘jam it’ to the public and got the result they so richly deserved.
Vague promises of reducing the rate to 5% three years hence is the stuff of fantasy.
I voted to can the HST, only because they behaved so stupidly. It is a result they have earned…
As for the poppycock that the HST was “Revenue Neutral” this is in the same company as the fairies on Mars, and the outlandish Venutian tale that marshmallows roast themselves.
No tax is ever ‘revenue neutral’, the purpose of every tax is to legally relieve you of your hard earned dollars.
Cheers
Hans Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
This whole exercise is why I think politicians are either 1) completely stupid, or 2) completely cynical.
To suggest the HST would be “revenue neutral”, when the tax is obviously extended to many previously exempt items, is to suggest that we, as taxpayers, are credulous simpletons, or it actually implies that our politicians and their staffs are so inept that they can’t predict the fiscal outcome of this change.
As someone with business experience, I understand the attraction of an HST; I don’t have to keep two separate lists of what’s GST or PST exempt, and in the long run, it simplifies accounting and bookkeeping.
All that McSquinty and Clark had to do was one simple, honest step: say that, because the HST would cover more articles than the old PST/GST combo, they would cut the HST rate by .5 or 1%. But the greedy bastards wanted every penny they could steal from us. That’s why I don’t trust them, and that’s why they should be defeated. Geez, BC, can’t you drum up a real PC party?!
There is quite a difference of opinion in the comments above and all have merit. While big and small businesses seem to have wanted to keep the HST and there probably were accounting efficiencies, it seems the citizenry felt they were lied to and deceived and wanted to teach the government a lesson.
james @ 6:32 has a great point. There is no difference between the Liberals and NDP. Does it really matter, as the bureaucracy runs things anyhow.
The poor BC voter is between a rock and a hard place as far as a distinctive choice in which party to vote for.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
attributed to Alexander Tytler
Having lived in the land of lotus eaters at the time of imposition of the HST, here are some observations.
The first and essential problem with the imposition of the HST was that the Liberals lied to the population during the election campaign. This is what got the peasants and mountain people really angry.
If they, the Liberals proposed and debated the HST at the time of the election campaign, the results may have been different, instead they lied.
The imposition of the HST made things that were not provincially taxed, taxable. That made the peasants and mountain people angry.
However, once the HST was imposed, the peasants and mountain people should have let it go. Instead, they were so angry at the politicians that they just had to punish them regardless of the cost.
If the current premieress of the land of lotus eaters actually changed the provincial portion of the tax to 5% as she debated during her leadership campaign, she might have gotten away with keeping the HST.
The HST will probably stay around, the referendum is not binding. The politicians will blow some of the exhaust of BC bud over the people and everybody will be happy.
It is interesting that the socialists, as opposed to closet socialists, the Liberals, were against the HST.
Apparently the federal government was going to give BC some big bucks to ease themselves into the scheme.
As would be expected, the federales are not going to pay. The socialists are all upset complaining that they, the BC should get the cash just the same. A neat trick as they say.
Now, the lotus eaters should calm down and leave the HST be. As an economic device, it is cheaper to administer for all concerned.
The referendum question should be:
Do you want a
1) larger
or
2) smaller
Provincial government?
@ Lev
The HST will probably stay around, the referendum is not binding.
It will not. That would be suicide for the Libs.
peterj, you’re so right!
In words of one Sil a Ble for those who think the HST was a good thing….
It cost me more bucks.
So I said YES.
I won.
I could go on but you might not get it.
Lev – you might want to comment only on things you know something about.
The HST was a good tax for BC. Streamlining bureaucratically-heavy departments like tax collection – though making a province less autonomous – will result in savings.
Had the BC Liberal government not:
1) Tried to apply the HST to everything (including items/services which were previously PST-free)
2) Stolen the idea of reducing the PST portion of the HST from the BC Conservatives (after learning just how wildly unpopular the HST was)
3) Attempted to claw back the ‘savings’ British Columbians would’ve had following a reduction in the PST from 7%-5% (which would’ve taken place over up to 3 years) by promising to raise taxes on small businesses, in a down economy, in order to make up the subsequent projected budget shortfall – all to pay for their wildest Liberal socialist fantasies
4) Run up the debt higher and faster than the NDP ever did, to make schemes such as the HST necessary (rather than simply making a reduction in PST rates by having paid down the debt and being good stewards of the public purse)
…they might’ve stood a chance. But don’t be too hard on them – they’re Liberals. They don’t know any other way.
the rat,
“For anyone suggesting we punish the Liberals by voting Conservative… Get Real! John Cummins can only help the NDP at this point.”
If this and other comments about the BCC are true, how come my BB explodes with new memberships each time the Liberals do something stupid?
As for the BC Reform 1996 experiment – do you know how many people are voting NDP currently to protest the Liberals? And yes, I do mean conservatives who are voting NDP.
This nonsense about “if we vote conservative, we’ll get NDP” is complete crap. Blame the Liberals for taking their so-called coalition and turning it into the LPC in BC. Oh, and tell me just what’s so bad with the NDP in BC anyway?
Yeah, go ahead and re-read what I just typed:
WHAT’S WRONG WITH HAVING AN NDP GOVERNMENT IN BC?
*If you’re concerned about the NDP raising the minimum wage to the highest in Canada, don’t be – the Liberals beat them to it.
*If you’re concerned about NDP-style scandals, don’t be – two words: Basi-Virk.
*If you’re concerned about the NDP appealing to that fringe element who haven’t joined the Green Party yet, don’t be – the Liberals not only instituted a ‘revenue-neutral’ ‘carbon’ tax but have since raised it…twice.
*If you’re concerned about an NDP government going on a wild socialist spending spree, Obama-style, don’t be – the Liberals have doubled BC’s debt since they took over from Ujjal.
That’s right, non-BC folks, the so-called ‘conservative choice in BC’ party took a $30 B debt in BC and turned it into a $60 B debt.
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE?
Gen. Lee Wright asks:
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE
Well, the BC lieberals are primarily moonbats with a large contingent of crony capitalists who stay in power by threatening the population with the return of the communist party if they don’t vote for them. The ndp is essentially a communist party and buys support by creating unions and transferring money to them in exchange for their votes. They are rigid statist ideologues who belong in front of a firing squad instead of making up the government.
That’s why it’s time for another party to take over in BC and it’s not going to happen with a huge concentration of clueless moonbats living in Vancouver and Victoria. The interior of BC has politics that are a lot closer to the Wild Rose party than they are to any of the loony leftist parties from the coast.
What I’ve never figured out is why do most of the nicest places in the world get overrun by idiots?
loki, why do leaders of the Green movement live on the Sunshine Coast or the Gulf Islands? For the LIFESTYLE and to be close to Vancouver and Victoria where they can lobby government and perform PR stunts.
I beleive that the HST was brought in for the 1.6Billion. This way Gordo figured he could cover the lie about a balanced budget During the last election.
I would also like to put an end to the ferry tale that cost would come down to the average consumer. Until retirment I worked as a sales agent for commercial flooring. When the HST was announced I pulled up an old quote for 32k. This is low for commercial but balanced for a new home. With a computer spread sheet it was simple to remove the PST and change the GST to HST.
The end result The overall cost increased by $1000.00 and I lost $300.00.
I guess to liberals an extra $1300.00 in their pocket is revenue netural.
Many jurisdictions have no sales taxes and they are doing just fine.
“I’m obviously as a finance minister disappointed by the results but not altogether surprised,” said Falcon in a press conference in Victoria.
Huh?
Spoken as the true “expert” that a centre-left finance minister is.
The left wants to keep taxing goods and services higher and higher, so that eventually only the rich can afford anything beyond basic living.
Veeeery smart.
Posted by: ∞² at August 27, 2011 1:19 AM
You are on to something there ∞².
Don’t even know if water is wet, though I’m thinking, it might possibly be.
Tony RoBC: Regarding your $1300.
A politician would put $650 in each of his pockets, and therefore justify calling it a balanced budget/revenue neutral situation.
I am puzzled by one thing, though. Does the defeat and rescinding of the HST mean also that Gordo gets recalled from his cushy retirement in London?
All governments want to increase budgets and raise taxes. When was there a government that you liked? What did they do differently?
“Whether the HST is good or bad (short term or long term) is irrelevant..” Of course it’s relevant. Otherwise it’s like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The way to punish the politicians is to send them a mssg. on election day
That is exactly what the politicians planned on. They knew that by the time the next election was held (and it could be years), everyone would have forgotten all about the underhanded way they foisted this on us. It was all part of the plan, and people like you played right into their hands.
This move punishes businesses and wastes taxpayer’s money.
No it doesn’t.
Campbell could care less at this point, so I don’t think the message hit its target.
It wasn’t directed at Campbell.
And why not the same hew and cry over the carbon tax?
Nobody lied to us about that. They didn’t deny their intention to introduce it, then turn around three weeks later and hit us with it anyway.
There is quite a difference of opinion in the comments above and all have merit. While big and small businesses seem to have wanted to keep the HST and there probably were accounting efficiencies, it seems the citizenry felt they were lied to and deceived and wanted to teach the government a lesson.
That’s it exactly. Hell, if there had been a referendum on the HST before the election I would have voted FOR it. Yes, it’s a better system (maybe add some exemptions and/or lower some rates). Yes, we’re going to get it eventually anyway. But again: that is NOT THE POINT here. The point is HOW they tried to implement it. Yeah, they tried the old “it’s too late now” ploy. They tried the “shooting yourself in the foot” tactic. They pulled out all the stops and the public STILL rejected it…and rightly so. I’d do it again.
For whatever reason, the anti-HST movement was BIG in BC. I remember going to a local farmers market to sign the HST referendum petition when the movement was still working on trying to get a referendum. What surprised me the most was that the longest lineup was in front of the guy with the petition! I’ve never had to line up and wait to sign a petition and the impression I got while waiting in line was that people were damn pissed off. In the provincial riding where I live over 50% of the voters signed the petition. Now if we could only get the population as worked up over “carbon” taxes.
loki, the BC carbon tax was the reason I stopped voting for the BC Liberals. (I’m not an NDP voter, either.) Gordon Campbell morphed into something I didn’t recognize when he bought the propaganda being sold for megabucks by the Green Cult and ironically started touting the virtues of China (BIG polluter) and California under Arnold Schwarzenegger. BC is not an easy province to govern, but politicians need to remember that households have limited disposable income. Adding a carbon tax to gasoline increased the prices of just about everything. To me, that carbon tax represented a political party out of touch with reality.
Look, many of you are missing the point here. The fact is to spend too much money then demand a way to pay for it after the fact is in essence a loss of liberty for all people in BC. To say that it will now cost more to do away with the HST show many of you have already surrendered your liberties. Cut spendung! This will lift the burden of excessive taxation. Where are the complaints about wasteful spedning in the various departments right now? Surely it would exceed the “loss” in revenues BC will now face. I commend the voters of BC for their choice.
Thank you Jay!
“We sent the government a message”
Yes. The message you sent is that BC “conservatives” can be stampeded to vote for higher taxes if you frame the question right.
Besides the HST tax cut and simplification and the Carbon tax increase and complification are small potatoes. The issue that should have conservatives’ blood boiling is provincially funded daycare (aka all-day kindergarten.)
“We sent the government a message”
Yes. The message you sent is that BC “conservatives” can be stampeded to vote for
higher taxes if you frame the question right.
No one can be “stampeded” when they have months to think about their course of action, and no one voted for higher taxes, either.
You people that are glad the HST was defeated are slow. Its a more efficient system that will result in higher revenue due to increased economic activity. Starve the beast other ways, not by idiotic inefficiency that penalizes just for trying to do business in your province (which they now won’t do). We have a lot of boneheads in this province and they just spoke up.