With a totalitarian party to vote for;
The liberals and secularists who formed the core of the Egyptian revolution are now scrambling to stave off political gains by the Muslim Brotherhood, a once-outlawed organization that is widely expected to become the dominant force when a new parliament is elected.
Shocker.
h/t EBD
robert – nope, I reject the linked article. It rests on a basic western assumption that the people in the ME are unable to be anything other than ruled by totalitarians – whether that Ruler be a dictator, king or theocracy. I disagree.
Certainly, when one totalitarian Ruler falls, other would-be Rulers will try to jump into power. The infrastructure doesn’t change overnight. So, the MB and other theocratic fundamentalists will try to get power. It’s like the fall of a corporate boss; others in the zone will try to move in for their turn.
But this article, like so many other analyses, ignores the causes of the uprising in the first place. It ignores the economic infrastructure.
The ME economic mode, which is statist monopoly control of one wealth-producing system can’t sustain the massive increase in ME population. This fact remains – whether the state govt is secular or theocratic. That’s what ought to be focused on; the economic mode.
It has to radically transform to enable more wealth production. That can only come via private enterprise, of small/medium businesses. A middle class economy. And with such an economic mode, a different mode of political organization also has to develop: constitutional democracy.
So- the population size has nothing to do with religion; nothing to do with ideology. The question then moves to..supporting that population. If your current economic mode can’t do it..you have to figure out other modes. War won’t do it; borrowing and relying on other nations won’t last for long.
And if your ideology makes it difficult to change, well, you’ll have to fight your own ideology! And that has happened within all peoples all over the world – fighting against their own ideology, reforming it, so that they can change both their economic and political modes.
“Alex – no, free elections are not the only criterion of democracy; you have to have a constitution for that government”
No, you don’t. There is no such requirement under the definition of “democracy”. It’s a nice to have, sure, but it’s not a requirement.
“And no, not all nations must go through a ‘tyranny of the majority’ phase.”
I never used the word ‘must’, but thank you for correcting your strawman.
“And I think everyone has answered your comments about religion and morality.”
Which would be wonderful if I had been speaking about religion and morality. As it is, they’ve completely missed the boat. I was asked to provide examples of law based solely on christian doctrine, and I did so – I’ve yet to see a valid refutation.
Many thanks, Robert W. for this article, “As the Western media turned their eyes away, a fundamentalist Islamic state began taking root” by Dr. Sherif Emil.
It’s really looking like a democratic ME will mean entrenched Sharia law regimes, as this article affirms: “. . . Within weeks of the revolution, the army set up a hasty referendum on a temporary constitutional decree that clearly and strongly favored the Muslim Brotherhood. . . . And then came the Salafists, Egyptian Muslims who espouse Saudi Wahhabi style Islam, the most fundamentalist and radical form. They seek to establish a pure Islamic state devoid of Christians, whom they refer to as ‘filth.’ Nurtured by the Mubarak regime to counterbalance the Muslim Brotherhood, who had a strong popular base, they began to show their fangs after the revolution. . . .”
ET, you write, “You don’t need religion to be moral.” I altogether agree. Even in barbaric cultures, there were/are those who behaved/behave in a moral way, which I believe includes justice and mercy. However, the ethical non believer is only part of the equation.
It’s much more difficult for individuals to be moral in their personal lives when the socio-political realm has decided that moral norms—such as the Ten Commandments (TC)—are passé. Once the laws of the land (I mentioned a few in my earlier post) begin to deconstruct the TC virtues—which many people push against anyway, and always have—the state and its institutions tacitly give permission to individuals to follow their own, inevitably selfish inclinations: in fact, state institutions actually teach “Do your own thing”.
Believe me, as an observant Christian, obliged to follow the Ten Commandments, it’s a constant struggle to be good: charitable, generous, and merciful. I often fail. The new, secular, relativist dispensation, in which one grows up and lives in the midst of a society that has actively repudiated the concept of restraint and self-control, and gives tacit permission to the individual to be selfish, doesn’t tend to produce morally positive results. Like most of us here, as the TC dispensation has been dismantled at every level of Western society, I’ve seen both individual and social behaviours deteriorate at a rapid pace. (Isn’t that why we notice so many non-adults in grown-up bodies these days? And, boy, can they throw gigantic, toddler-like tantrums!)
If we’re honest, can we say that Western societies are more charitable, generous, and merciful these days? Now that we’ve spent most of the Judeo-Christian capital, there’s not much left on which to build a moral foundation, let alone a strong one. So, yes, it’s possible for a person to be moral without religion—and religions aren’t all equal either—but the odds are that there will be many fewer moral people: if minds and consciences aren’t formed by “the good”—“YOU’VE GOT RIGHTS” is not my idea of a sound, moral formation/foundation—the chances of people exerting self-control in order for their better natures to prevail—that’s very hard work!—isn’t very likely. Thus, IMO, we’re seeing the serious fraying of the moral fabric at every level of society more and more.
I tend not to homongenize the Middle East, but rather to examine each country individually. Some have oil wealth, Saudi A., Iraq, Iran, Libya, etc. Some Tourism, Eygypt, Iraq, etc. Some Shia Theocracy,-Iran, some Sunni King/dictator – Saudi, Bahrain. Some are without resources, or tourism – Yemen, Syria. There is widespread poverty, and low or nil education of a large % of the populations. Fast rising basic food costs – thank you Global Warmers – but many are now connected by social media, that has been a magnifier and uniter of this “movement”.
Read ‘A Woman of Egypt’ by Jehan Sadat. Her comments on the Muslim Brotherhood and the threat it has posed over the years gain an new relevance in light of recent events.
“It’s much more difficult for individuals to be moral in their personal lives when the socio-political realm has decided that moral norms—such as the Ten Commandments (TC)—are passé.”
There’s nothing moral about the ten commandments. The first 4 on the list are just god being a megalomaniac, and telling his slaves how to properly honor him, so right away you can whittle it down to the 6 commandments. Once you take those 6 and weed out all the nonsense, the whole list can be summed up into one sentence: don’t kill and don’t steal. And even those are clearly not moral absolutes, since – as anyone who has read the bible would know – god obviously has no problem with killing. So … why, again, do we need a list of 10 arbitrary and nonsensical rules posted all over the place, when all we’re really trying to say is “hey, try not to kill anyone unless they deserve it, and don’t take stuff that isn’t yours”? Hell, I can sum it up in less words than that; the One Commandment: “Don’t Be A Dick”.
“Believe me, as an observant Christian, obliged to follow the Ten Commandments, it’s a constant struggle to be good: charitable, generous, and merciful.”
And which of the ten commandments talks about charity and generosity, again?
I think you need to go study the bible, son. You clearly don’t know what’s actually in there. As for me, as an atheist, being charitable and generous is FAR removed from “a struggle”; it’s a pleasure, and a joy, and something I undertake gladly and often. If helping people and being nice to others is “a struggle” for you, I guess I’m glad you’ve found someone to boss you around in order to make you be a better person, even if it happens to be an imaginary someone. Good for you!
Alex, it’s quite obvious, and has been for some time, that you’re neither generous nor charitable. (You’re unobservant too: I’m female, which is as easy as pie to have figured out.)
My considered advice to you: “Don’t be a dick.”
lookout, it’s quite obvious, and has been for some time, that you’re neither female nor christian. My considered advice to you: “Stop Trolling”.
“Forgive him, Father, for he knows not what he does.”
You’re forgiven. Just don’t do it again.
ET >
“no, we can’t isolate ourselves; modern nations are globally networked – economically and informationally.”
Yes we can. What exactly is it WE need from Arab countries again? We can unwind from this global network with hostile backwater nobodies any time we wish to.
They need from us, not the other way around. It’s a very simple and proven concept.
Alex – You suck. Protest as much as you want, but you’re just a stupid troll.
lookout >
Don’t worry Lookout, Alex is going to wind himself up about religion again, and get himself kicked and banned like a little kid for awhile again.
I love his frothing at the mouth commentary when religion is brought up. He really takes it personally, as if your faith is some boogie man hiding under his bed.
Stop trolling, trolls.
Thanks, Black Mamba and Knight 99. Have a fine day!