When Scotland leads can Québec be far behind? Assuming, as seems likely at this point to be the case, the PQ wins the next provincial election surely they will find great inspiration (especially when they realize all those Dizzy Dippers can’t deliver Jack squat):
Salmond hails ‘historic’ victory as SNP secures Holyrood’s first ever majority
Salmond leads party to series of dramatic victories over Labour and Lib Dems, resulting in a majority in the Scottish parliament
The Scottish National party has won a majority in the Holyrood elections – a dramatic result that will allow its leader, Alex Salmond, to hold a historic referendum on independence for Scotland…
Jubilant at the “historic” scale of the SNP’s victories, he added that he would first demand much greater economic freedom for the Scottish parliament, including the right to set its own corporation tax and increase borrowing powers to £5bn. Then he would hold his referendum.
“Just as the Scottish people have restored trust in us, we must trust the people as well,” he declared. “Which is why, in this term of the parliament, we will bring forward a referendum and trust the people on Scotland’s own constitutional future.”..
Want to bet on the “Maple Leaf Forever“? (Update thought: Except maybe as the new national anthem?)
I vote we beat them to the punch and kick them out.
“including the right to set its own corporation tax and increase borrowing powers”
In other words, to drive out business and go into debt. A remarkable formula for success, I’m sure.
My Grandfather was a Highlander,and my Grandmother never failed,at family gatherings, to relate how the English had treacherously defeated the Scots at Culloden,after which “Bonnie Prince Charlie” fled.
The rightful King,he was,said Granny.
She always led us to believe the English were only slightly less horrid than “the Germans”.
As kids we never understood what the fuss was about,as at school we were propagandized every day about the Great British Empire and how we were proud to be British Subjects,but we kept quiet when Granny ranted.
It’s interesting to see the Scots finally have their Nation back,wonder how that’ll play out.
Here in Canada, I wish Quebec and their New Sovereigntist Party all the luck in the world,just don’t expect us to pay for it, as Jack Layton promised those naive frog-leg-eaters.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the Brits held a referendum on the European Question. Once they are all governed from Brussels it doesn’t make one lick off difference whether Scotland is part of the UK or not. Its like Scarborough voting to separate from Toronto. With all the crap that has happened in Britain in twenty years The English will be happy to see the back of them. Its almost like in Canada where Quebec drives the agenda for the whole country and the rest of the country pays the bills. England is the only part of Britain that does not have its own parliament, but Scottish politicians make rules on things that only effect England and England gets governed by Scottish PM’s. Its odd that as people want to brake up into smaller political entities (separatists in Scotland, Ireland, Wales, the Basques in Spain, the Northern League in Italy, the Czechs and Slovaks) Europeans are handing over more and more power to the EU bureaucrats.
“England is the only part of Britain that does not have its own parliament, but Scottish politicians make rules on things that only effect England and England gets governed by Scottish PM’s.”
Otherwise known as “The West Lothian Question”:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/82358.stm
Mark
Ottawa
I wouldn’t bet on this as a sure thing. Scottish independence rose in parallel with oil and gas revenues from the North Sea. Now that production and reserves of both, particularly gas, are in decline, some of the hot air may be let out of this balloon.
It’s tough building an independent nation with little more than wool and whisky. It will get even tougher when England decides not to do any more shipbuilding for the RN on the Clyde.
One difference is Scotland’s boundary. In Quebec’s case, if they separate, Canada would be split in two. Are they taking the Maritimes with them, or will the Maritimes become a separate country?
An interesting historical twist. Much of the impetus for Scottish amalgamation and ultimately union into Great Britain resulted from the collapse of Scottish finances. England reluctantly took over and restored financial credibility.
Here we go again..but who will bail them out this time?
Gobi Desert, there’s oil in them thar Maritime waters. They should do quite well on their own. The big question is what will happen to Ontario? They’re welcome to tag along with Western Canada, but don’t expect to keep Ottawa as the capital. Think Calgary, or something.
Perhaps ppropriate that the kid who made the video has the Union Flag upside down?
Gobi, this is not a problem, Alaska and Hawaii are not attached to the US. I am sure there are other examples around the world.
Besides, Gobi, Quebec doesn’t actually have title to the District of Ungava.
Scotland is always playing the victim card, long gone are the true Scots that fought for freedom and the rights of the individual entrepreneur.
Scotland is another socialist bastion living off the rest of the UK.
All the balls and ambition left Scotland a century or two ago.
Not much left there but sheep….
The big question is with the claymore, the dirk and the sgian dubh banned already, if the Scottish National Party lose their independence vote will the English ban the kilt again?
Scotland is just like Quebec . . they want to break the union and become a country but they want the rest of the UK to still provide Billions in subsidies.
If ya wanna go laddie/monsieur, then begone and have a nice life. I won’t be paying for ya.
That’s funny. My ancestors came to Canada to get away from the morons in Scotland (we’re Scottish). Looks like they made the right choice, twice.
Louise arrrghghgh
What a horrible suggestion. One of the great things about Calgary is that there is very little government blight or government parasites infesting the city (unlike say Edmonton).
I don’t know who to inflict this curse on.
Perhaps more important in the British elections is the result of the referendum on the Alternative Vote. 68% NO, 32% yes. A significant victory for common sense, reason and tradition.
Mark, its a good analogy until I got to the Maple Leaf Forever part. There are no Sugar Maples East of Eastern Ontario. The cold and frost of the Praries kills them. Yes there are lovely Red Maple leafs in Ottawa and the Gatineau in the Fall – you won’t see them much West of there!
Just came in from putting up a new Canadian Flag. The sixties established flag we have proudly flown for several years torn in the last wind storm.
I have felt empathy for Scotland over the decades every time I hear an English accent talk about “Jock or Paddy”. Something like hearing the words Pepsi for the first time when I joined the Canadian Navy as a teenager and arrived in Halifax.
My ancestry as a United Kingdom mongrel; Scot;Irish; and English, with an ancient Norman connection, probably some Welsh in the mix as well, undoubtedly having something to do with my discomfort.
I was not really aware of the independence movement in Scotland until after the North Sea oil was developed.I did become aware of the sadness in Aberdeen when with influx of money came culture change; indolence; and increased drug addiction and prostitution. These comments anecdotal references from relatives.
I also recognize the separation of East Timor seemed to be based on the oil money influx and found myself comparing the two when an article on either came my way.
I do think Quebec will be a more satisfied group if they revisit the “two solitudes” from P.M. John Diefenbaker’s day. A step aside for awhile; find out what is important and then negotiate a relationship with “Upper” and Canada “West”.
The Atlantic Provinces should also step aside and think about their needs. One step might be a partition of New Brunswick into a northern part joining Quebec and a southern part joining Nova Scotia.
The present New Brunswickers seem an unhappy lot, wanting more children to be born, to increase regional funding transfers and complaining they were exploited at Confederation. Seems they really are not up to the task of looking after themselves.
P.E.I. could easily become a municipal government
in the Province of Nova Scotia. Having this small group of self serving electors is really not much different than the “we are for sale” voters of Quebec. A “johnny come lately” group with their hand constantly out if there ever was one.
Newfoundland also grabbed the oil golden ring after decades of support and investment. Nice friendly people who will operate better with the “Factor Control” mentality they were used to now that Premier Danny Williams has reintroduced to Newfoundland and Labradour Society. The next time we hear a threat to leave from a Newfie we should grab it and say something like “don’t let the ….”
I believe we have the best country in the world just tired of hearing “I want more” from so many unhappy people. So kindly move on make yourself comfortable and if possible happy. Upper and Canada West will still be here.
When you feel comfortable and possibly a bit more giving we can arrive at a mutually beneficial relationship. Cheers;
p.s. I listened to the singing of the “Maple Leaf Forever” and remember standing in class with my hand on my heart, very proud to be a Canadian. No ancestry awareness; no Jock, Paddy, Pepsi etc. as part of my vocabulary.
As for me, who recalls singing “The Maple Leaf Forever” in elementary school, I do think the best situation in the immediate future is a Canada which begins at the eastern boundary of Ontario, minus Ottawa. The future capital in Winnipeg.
It is too late to change the thinking East of Ontario, even with a Conservative Party as the Federal Government.
Dead on James….you can see it in the political leanings between the Calgary and Edmonton. Much fewer Gov’t offices in Calgary and much fewer Liberal or NDP voters.
“I don’t know who to inflict this curse on.”
How about Edmonton…concentrate all the gov’t workers in one city. I didn’t catch it, how did Ottawa ridings go this past Monday?
Posted by: James at May 6, 2011 4:46 PM
Red Deer?
I posted this little video to my FB page with this message:
As for the Maple Leaf Forever, it conveys a great sense of what pre-Trudeau, pre-multicultural, pre-separatist, pre-politically correct Canada was like. I am particularly amused by how forced some of the language is to make the rhyme and meter work. Turn up the sound and enjoy!
In both cases, call the bluff.
Phantom – compromise: kilts are okay (if grown men want to dress up like Catholic schoolgirls who am I to judge) but underwear is mandatory.
Oh, Iowahawk has an idea!
The big difference between Scotland and Quebec is, that there’s a larger European Union that Scotland can integrate into if they separate.
Indeed, I think this is probably the long-term plan of European apparatachiks. (Look it up. 🙂 )
If some larger nations like the U.K., Spain, and Italy split like many of their regions want them to, then the E.U. is cemented in place. You can’t renationalize Europe if the nation-states inside it have fragmented.
This indeed may be Tony Blair’s most important legacy: he tipped the balance in favour of supranational Europe as opposed to the old nation-state system. Establishing a Scottish national parliament may end up being the most significant political decision in decades or centuries.
Mamba, its Catholic schoolgirls dressing up like men. I don’t have a problem with that. Nor do I insist they wear underwear. BwaHA! ~:D
@GOBI AND LOUISE AND ALL THE REST ….
“Quebec” as outlined on maps is not it’s full definition .
See the indians own probably three quarters of quebec’s land so short of montreal and probly a hundred km radius …the rest belong’s mostly to the indians now if they chose to leave with quebec then we would be split in to two halves but until the indians agree the country of montreal will have a real hard time functioning inside the country of canada and if i were pm i would encourage there separation based on that knowledge then i would cut every single supply of anything off but wait it get’s better i would reinstate the supply with 75% tarif’s for montreal using canadian airport’s ,hiway’s so on and so forth to bring there good’
s to them basically break them and then when they came kocking i would lay out a very detailed contract that get’s renewed based on there ability to 100% assimilate into canada with absolutley zero tolorence and i mean none no french on everything ,no french anything anywhere ever period done finished .
Voting NDP does not imply more support for separation. It just means that they were tired of the Bloc Quebecois.
Loved seeing the Red Ensign, Canada’s flag. Nothing against the Maple Leaf flag, which has a simple, aesthetically pleasing design, but to me the Red Ensign will always be the Canadian flag. I hope that one day Canada’s history will once again be taught and appreciated, and the politically correct “Liberal”, Pearson, Trudeau destructions and denials will be seen as the distortions of history that they are.
Yes, the Red Ensign has a flavour steeped in history that the johnny come lately successor
still doesn’t possess.
We should bring out and hoist a few of them
on Dominion Day. 🙂
As a young schoolchild in the early ’50’s, we were required to memorize the words to The Maple Leaf Forever. I always found it to be a singularly beautiful song and wish it had been adopted as our national anthem. It truly encompasses all the regions of Canada in that it recognizes the first settlers and reminds us that the French were defeated on the Plains of Abraham.
God bless our Queen and Heaven bless, the Maple Leaf Forever!
Talking about nuns.
A man is running down the street trying to escape the MP’s. He sees a nun and says “Sister, I’m going to hide under your dress. I don’t want to go to Afghanistan.”
When the threat of being found is over, he eases out and says “Sister, I notice you have testicles.”
The nun says “Yeah, I don’t want to go to Afghanistan either.”
Newfoundland independence is a complicated matter.
Leaving is not a threat. At one point Craig Dobbin, for example, said, more or less, you don’t want us, let us go. And that would be the sentiment of many.
Nfld was independent for quite a long time. The collapse of its finances in 1934 owes something to the Great War.
Newfoundlanders tend to like Americans more than they like Canadians. It was a near thing that they joined Confederation in 1949.
Many wanted to join the US, and there is much bitterness about the outcome of the election, which many think was rigged by Great Britain.
They also like free trade. But they are, of coure, being broken to the Nanny State just like everyone else.
In the event of Quebec separation I would expect to see an independent Nfld and Labrador, with a movement to join the US when the usual incompetent government has its usual effects.
Played hockey in college with a number of maritimers. They were all for Quebec separation, they claimed it would shorten their drive home by about 7 hours!
Not sure about the current separatist mood in Quebec. A provincial vote for the PQ may not portend its revival because the PQ is the Opposition and is the natural place for Quebecers to put their votes if they want to punt Charest and his gang. The recent Quebec surge to the NDP was a ploy that blew up in their faces. Those “sophisticated, astute” Quebec voters thought an NDP-Liberal alliance would be the government once a Harper minority lost the confidence of the House.
I love the Maple Leaf Forever but it is an unfamiliar tune to a generation or more of Canadians who have never learned it and have probably only heard it sung or played on rare occasions. In a referendum to make it the national anthemn of a Quebec-less Canada, it would lose. It might, however, enjoy a revival as a patriotic song once sensitivites over that awful Wolfe chap are no longer part of the national psyche.
Canada has always been a country of vested interests with the focal point in Ontario. Quebec has been utilized to maintain that eastern dominance. If this wasn’t the case then the Canadian colony would have joined the 13 colonies to the south in their revolution.
I hardly expect anyone in Western Canada will campaign to keep Quebec if they have another vote. Actually the longer they stay the worse it will be for the ROC. The cost is enormus each year already.
I error about no one protesting seperation from the West. Those that profit from Multi-Cult will protest. Their special status also depends on Quebec remaining. Seperation would led to a review and rethink of what is Canada. Heaven forbid!
JL, a Newfoundland friend told me that the deciding factor in the vote as to which Country to join up with, was the blessed Family Allowance,shilled by Joey Smallwood for Big Mac in Ottawa.
He said Newfies couldn’t believe their good fortune,”we could stay home and make babies all day and get paid f’er it”!
Great song and video. At the time of Wolfe’s conquest the flag was without St. Patrick’s Cross (this came in 1801) and the map in the video is likewise off as at the conquest of Quebec there was the Kingdom of Great Britian and the Kingdom of Ireland (not the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland which is 20th century).
Too bad the 2nd verse was left out:
At Queenston Heights and Lundy’s Lane,
Our brave fathers, side by side,
For freedom, homes and loved ones dear,
Firmly stood and nobly died;
And those dear rights which they maintained,
We swear to yield them never!
Our watchword evermore shall be
“The Maple Leaf forever!”
Wolfe is not part of this country’s history. The Maple Leaf Forever is no doubt a fine song, but it’s in no way preferable to O Canada, and neither is appropriate as an anthem for this country. They are regional songs about regional history, and nothing to do with Canada.
Forgive the question of an “igorent” Texan, but in view of the showing of the Quebec separatists in the last Canadian election how viable *is* Quebec independence? Seems that they have lost interest in going their own way just as the rest of Canada is ready to see them go.
I’ll answer it, Mark – from the perspective of the “most American” province.
Last Monday’s election was for the federal legislature. The Quebec separatists are still strong in the Quebec provincial legislature (grandiosely called the “National Assembly”).
Western Canadians (Alberta, Saskatchewan & BC) were MORE than ready to see Quebec GO waayy back in 1995. And it would’ve happened except for a few thousand votes.
Since ’95 support for independence has shrunk from 50% to about 30% in Quebec. The charismatic leader of the federal Quebec separatist party in ’95, Lucien Bouchard, is currently worried about deficits-debt and Quebec’s economic competitiveness in the North American market – a non-existent competitiveness with thick red tape, high taxation, powerful unions and restrictive language laws (along with a level of corruption to rival their Cajun cousins in Louisiana AND an active Italian mob).