Now is the time at SDA when we juxtapose!
Springtime in Saskatchewan, without harm reduction.
Springtime in Saskatchewan, with harm-reduction….
Related! “The first place Saskatoon city council should go to find the $50,000 needed for a study on panhandlers is to the provincial government.”
Nice shot of that prairie crocus.
Why study panhandlers?
Make it illegal to panhandle without a license and pull the license if the panhandler is accused of annoying people.
Make it illegal to give money to panhandlers, hundreds of dollars in fines will make the panhandler problem vanish.
Or, hire hundreds of bureaucrats and commission millions of dollars worth of multi-year studies in order to entrench the panhandler ‘problem’ and keep the money flowing to social service empires.
Obviously a study of panhandlers is needed to determine if they are responsible for the unsafe needle disposal problem. Could be groups of diabetics medicating themselves in the city parks you know.
I’ll NEVER forget the time when Vancouver’s #1 Metrosexual, Gregor Robertson, was running for MLA in the Provincial Gov’t. I called up the radio station he was a guest on and respectfully expressed my elderly mother’s concern about the aggressive panhandlers in her neighbourhood, which sat in the riding Robertson was running in.
His response, you ask?
Paraphrasing: “Your mother should appreciate everything she has acquired in her life and have more empathy for those less fortunate folks who don’t have as much.”
That, my friends, is the boilerplate response from today’s Left who don’t care one bit about legitimate complaints from law-abiding taxpayers … unless of course said complaints also negatively affect them.
Conclusion for Saskatoon: Expect more needles and less flowers.
“If adults do not feel comfortable disposing of needles, they should call Saskatoon Fire & Protective Services at 975-3030 or Public Health at 655-4444. For more information, visit http://www.saskatoon.ca, and look under “F” for Fire & Protective Services.”
I wonder if they would look differently at needle exchange programs if everyone called the Fire department to dispose of these needles. Think of the time, energy and dollars to roll a full firetruck to a park to pick up just one needle.
Calgary spent money on public education aimed at not giving money to these people but instead to one of the countless private support agencies in town (i.e. the Mustard Seed, Drop-in Center etc.)
I was once in traffic in Calgary and there was the typical pan handler on the median with his typical ‘I am homeless, need food etc.’ sign. After I shaked my head as to say ‘no’ he passed me on to the next car. I looked back in my rearview mirror to see him texting on his cell phone behind the sign.
I know I am a cold hearted NEOCON but the vast majority of these panhandlers are doing it because it’s easy money. There is another guy I saw frequently in downtown Calgary in same spot literally for years everyday. He would sit on the side walk with a hat in front of him and he would read a book all day while to my amazement people would drop in spare change.
Fast forward to today. I live in Estevan, SK. There is no food bank and no homeless shelter and we have no homeless people or pan handlers.
Robp at 1:54 PM, I’d be looking for something different under “F”, me thinks.
Maybe they could all crash at the Star-Phoenix offices–they are good corporate citizens, after all, aren’t’ they?
I volunteer at a soup kitchen. The vast majority of our “clients” have cell phones and I pods.
Oz: Nice shot of that prairie crocus.
Ditto. I haven’t been out on the unbroken prairie land at this time of the year for ages, but I do remember the uplifting feeling of seeing the first crocus with snow still on the ground. Beautiful little flower. Powerful message.
– “Discarded Needles Do Not Increase Soon After the Opening of a Needle Exchange Program” – Doherty et al., 1997 (aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/145/8/730.short)
– “These data suggest that this needle exchange program did not increase the number of distribution of discarded needles.” – The effect of a needle exchange program on numbers of discarded needles: a 2-year follow-up, Doherty et al., 2000 (ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1446248)
– “Another illustrative case is that of Windham, Connecticut, where the city’s only NEP [needle exchange program] was closed following a public controversy in which it was blamed for the city’s drug problem, discarded syringes, and the region’s economic decline. Following the NEP closure, IDUs significantly increased their use of unreliable syringes and more frequently reused or shared needles (68). Yet the city’s problems with discarded needles remained.” – The effectiveness of needle exchange programs: A review of the science and policy, Strathdee & Vlahov, 2001 (aidscience.org/Articles/aidscience013.asp)
To which you, who any other day might espouse the virtues of rationalism, objectivity, data, and empiricism, will reply “No thanks, I’ll believe my own lyin’ eyes.”
Remember that panhandling Gypsy immigrant women who was followed home in T.O. and they get to her nice apartment and she had a 51″ flatscreen TV?
Some panhandlers make a lucrative career out of it.
Licence it, tax it, regulate it, teach people it’s like picking up hitch hikers or saying yes to internet spammers and phone soliciters: if you encourage it by participating and giving them what they want there will be more of it.
DAvenport – millions and counting! The increase in needles given out under Saskatchewan needle exchange programs correlates quite nicely with a rapid rise in AIDS infection in addicts. What’s not to like?
Saskatoon, or any other city, could solve the panhandling problem for free, simply by instructing police to look the other way when somebody assaults a panhandler.
Perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised if addicts throw their needles away or own iPods. After all, they wouldn’t be irresponsible if they faced their demons and saw to their immediate needs first.
What is really sad is that there are people in need but will be lumped in with the miscreants who text each other after getting handfuls of change from well-meaning citizens.
If the result of shooting up in the park was a guaranteed night in the slammer with no dinner, would the number of needles found in the park go up or down?
If the highly publicized result of becoming a drug addict was starvation and death from infections or the elements, would the number of addicts increase or decrease?
If the result of aggressively panhandling old ladies was getting punched out byp the nearest male citizen after having Granny stick a pistol in your face, would aggressive panhandling increase or decrease?
Final question, if all of the above resulted in fewer discarded needles, fewer addicts and fewer pushy creeps bothering old ladies, does Davenport think that would be a good thing or a bad thing?
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Davvy’s 3 little studies are accurate. The first two studies happened over a decade ago in Baltimore. In Saskatchewan, are the needle-exchange programs actually needle exchange programs – i.e. give us a dirty needle and we’ll give you a clean one – or are they just needle hand-out programs? According to Wiki NEP can mean either one in practice.
work·house
noun \-ˌhau̇s\
Definition of WORKHOUSE
1
British : poorhouse
2
: a house of correction for persons guilty of minor law violations
Panhandlers are not necessarly drug addicts, and vice-versa. My experience has taught me that the the best way to confront a panhandler is to get angry and say, “Hey, what the hell are you doing here, this is my side of the street.” The more you play the part, the more fun you’ll have with it.” The look on their face is priceless.
My Dad worked for the Bowser Corp. (gas pumps) in Toronto. He told me a story about a guy who panhandled in downtown TO, and was so successful that he drove a Hudson and owned a six bedroom home when most people lived in row housing, walked or drove a Model A Ford.
As for the needles, they could have serial numbers and the buyer would have to sign for them. Then we could register them, if you get my drift.
Kate: “The increase in needles given out under Saskatchewan needle exchange programs correlates quite nicely with a rapid rise in AIDS infection in addicts.”
You know what they say about correlation.
True, HIV incidence has risen in SK in recent years.
Also true: NEPs have been around in SK a lot longer than the recent spike in incidence, suggesting not only that your correlation isn’t causal, but that your correlation isn’t even much of a correlation.
Also true: The recent spike in HIV incidence is highest in SK health regions where NEPs have the lowest coverage.
Also true: A report published in 2009 concluded that NEPs in SK have helped to curb HIV and Hep C rates (i.e., the recent spikes could have been even higher), findings that are consistent with the majority of Canadian and int’l research on the impact of NEPs on disease control – cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/02/24/needle-review.html.
Davenport So the obvious solution is to supply needles to drug dealers to make drug use seem safer?
Could it also have something to do with a lifestyle that is detrimental to society? Giving free needles does so much more to increase their time to indulge in drugs because it isn’t as dangerous?
Just a teaching opportunity for the schools to find needles in the morning? Dept. of Health seal of approval.
Just askin’.
Personally, I don’t care about disease rates in people intent on committing slow motion suicide.
What part of “they’re shooting toxic chemicals directly into their bloodstream” did these enabling morons miss?
The city of Saskatoon has lost it’s mind. 50,000 dollars to ask the opinion of a BEGGAR. Theresa Dust, city solicitor brought forth this idea. Fire her now for STUPIDITY. City councillors Charlie Clark, Pat Lorje, and Darren Hill are all LEFT WING LOONS and can’t help themselves. I think Mayor Don Atchison has come on board with this group. Remember Don promising no tax increases in the year he was first elected. HOW HAS THAT TURNED OUT? After 10 years of Atchison our taxes have increased by 30 PERCENT. Murray Totland just received a 15 percent wage increase at city hall. The men and women who are out on the front lines at city hall have been offered 0,1,and 0 in the next 3 years. I remember when Bev Dubois was first elected. She campaigned and said ” I don’t want to raise taxes”. What a bunch of BULL SHIT. 90,000,000 MILLION SPENT ON RIVER LANDING AND STILL COUNTING. Here’s the Latest, 130,000,000 million for the CADILLAC of police stations. City council is going to saddle the taxpayers with a mortgage on this for 30 years. When Regina built a new station a few years back it received a lot of Provincial money to do it. Saskatoon is getting F UCKED by the Province once again. Remember Saskatoon pays for the Mendal, TCUP-Centenial Auditorium and other civic facilities, Regina pays very little for the Center of the Arts or the Museum. In conclusion I will say that the voters in Saskatoon are all STUPID.
I’m rambling but I can’t halp myself. I’m all worked up. Saskatoon just spent 700,000 on a question and answer session called SASKATOON SPEAKS. Did anybody hear me? 700,000 dollars. That could buy 3 average homes for low income people. Or how about this one, A SLIGHT REDUCTION IN MY F’N TAXES. the voters in Saskatoon are STUPID.
Kate: “Personally, I don’t care about disease rates in people intent on committing slow motion suicide.”
Except for three hours earlier, when you thought you could use rising disease rates among addicts as ammo against NEPs in SK.
Still, your principled indifference to human misery is duly noted.
Hey Davenport, how often do you volenteer at the food bank? How often do you give time at the friendship inn? Do you ever give anything of yourself to help the elderly. I CAN’T HEAR YOU. SHUT THE F UP.
ezzard @2:17 – so do I, and I know what you mean (although in Halifax at least I wouldn’t go so far as to say “the vast majority”). Another thing that galls me far more is how much food is simply thrown away (they could take it back with them if they wanted) because so many just show up for the donuts.
Davs – Kate suggested there was a correlation; i.e. the “harm reduction” thing not working. She never said she cared.
What better way to get 50k to study panhandlers than making those that want the 50k, panhandle for it themselves?
Davenport can’t seem to bring herself to inquire if all the vast social apparatus we have to “take care” of the “poor” and the “disadvantaged” actually does what it is supposed to do. Given that the number of “poor” and “disadvantaged” -exploded- as more and more and more and MORE tax dollars poured in to “help” them over the last 40-50 years, I’d have to say the evidence is against her.
In my field of physical therapy, I have observed over the years that the more fragged up a patient is, the more serious they are about their rehab. Except for the ones who just give up and -die-.
Davenport, ducky, the universe is not constructed so that you can make somebody live who has decided they are going to give up and die. Maybe if you spend some time teaching stroke patients how to walk and quadriplegics how to wipe their own @ss after they go to the bathroom, you’ll have a little insight into the type of person who shoots street drugs into their own perfectly healthy body until they are -dead-.
Maybe even some insight into the type of deluded imbecile who would HELP them do that to themselves. They don’t need help to frig themselves up, they can do that all on their own.
Myself, I think if the entire ministry of Indian Affairs was shut tomorrow morning and all the money for its budget was BURNED in the street outside, infant mortality on reserves would match the norms for rural Canada within ten years, as would rates of alcoholism, drug use, and etc.
It isn’t just that you’re not helping, Davenport.
The public can’t afford “harm reduction” policies – they’re too dangerous.
Their only function is to waste as many tax dollars in as cynical a way as possible. It’s all part of the left-wing “political correctness” agenda to bring down western society, and closely related to (if not actually part of) the Cloward-Piven strategy.
A policy based on rationalism and objectivity would leave the tax dollars in the pockets of the people who earned them, confine government to its proper functions of police, military and courts, and frankly, let any addict do what he wants as long as he doesn’t hurt anybody apart from himself.
The Phantom: “Maybe if you spend some time teaching stroke patients how to walk and quadriplegics how to wipe their own @ss after they go to the bathroom, you’ll have a little insight into the type of person who shoots street drugs into their own perfectly healthy body until they are -dead-.”
Actually, I prefer getting my insights into addicts and the nature of addiction by actually working, on the ground, with addicts. But thanks for exposing your own irrelevance and lack of direct, real-world experience with these issues.
I’ve missed you. Winter getaway?
I was thinking we should buy $50K worth of ammo and give it to hunters to deal with the druggie population. I postulate that those who aren’t cleaned out will clean up in rather short order.
Sean, Give Black Mamba a call. She has a line on some neat ammo that blows up the varmints.
Davenport, if you actually work with addicts, then you should know how disgusting enabling their wretched addictions is. If you are exhausted from having tried to help them, fine, that is on you. Don’t enable their addiction; just walk away. I see no reason why a little kid should stumble across a filthy needle because addicts and their enablers have given up.
Davvy – Phantom’s in the awesome State of Arizona, no doubt enjoying the heat and packin’ it too, the fortunate b*$tard. Lucky you, you’ve still got me to argue with, suffering as I am up here in a nice spring hail storm, gunless, surrounded by cats, the Grand Canyon a presence in my life only on those occasions when I seek out Thelma and Louise finale clips on Youtube (when you gotta go, that’s the way to go!).
Osumashi – yes. I am not without sympathy for people whose lives have been gutted, one way or another, to the point where they’ll shove needles full of poison into their veins on a regular basis, but only a fool, only a liberal (butIrepeatmyself) believes that people don’t make choices. Often they make bad ones, that’s human; however they do make choices, and the government, which exists to deliver the mail, lock up rapists and maintain an army, should not be in the business of using taxpayer money to enable the more antisocial ones. When little kids are in danger of stepping on infected needles, I’m afraid I’m primitive enough to see red. I’ve never bought the “disease” theory of addiction.
TaxasCanuck – sadly, no.
Black Mamba, true. People make these terrible choices. It is not a disease. It’s tragic when people think the only way out is drugs or alcohol. Nevertheless, they make the choices. Why should someone else pay for those choices one way or another?
Davenport can’t stand the idea of an informed opinion that doesn’t agree with hers, can she? I’ve worked with plenty of drug addicts ducky, just not many who lived very long. PT doesn’t help them. Not much does. That being my point.
If instead of enabling their addictions and destructive actions they were directed to a place where they could quietly expire with a minimum of inconvenience to the rest of us, the rate of death by addiction would probably -decrease- tremendously. If instead of free food, free rooms and free needles they got told to go die in the corner, at least half of them would probably stop on their own. The other half wouldn’t be leaving infected needles in the park, would they?
If you stop hitting your head on the wall Davenport, pretty soon it will stop hurting.
Black Mamba, yes it is rather balmy here today, 95F by the pool with a nice pop. Haven’t gone shooting yet, I’ve been busy playing with custom cars. However I do have my eye on a rather nice Colt 1911, and the Crossroads Of The West gun show is this weekend…
Maybe after the car show. ~:D
Is it snowing at home? bwaha!