Is there nothing that Obama can’t do?
The incoherence and the disingenuous of the talk of the end game here is appalling. Obama himself had said Qaddafi has to go. Then he gives a speech last night in which he says regime change is not a military objective.
Then a day later in London — here’s a dispatch from the New York Times, I’ll contract it a bit — “The leaders of the countries meeting in London today made clear that the NATO-led military operation in Libya would end only with the removal of Qaddafi.,” Which contradicts what the president said last night.
And we aren’t even near the end game. We’re in the middle game here. The rebels aren’t just thwarted at the gates of Sirte. They have been thrown back, lost two towns today, one being Ras Lanuf, the second time they lost [that] oil port in one week. It tells you that the rebels without close air support are no match for Qaddafi.
So to speak of an end game in which Qaddafi is now on the march is absurd. …They’re [the rebel forces] going the wrong way. They’re going east instead of west.
But it ain’t over ’til it’s over! – President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.
I repeat – get our pilots out of there.
” President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces ”
But I bet it’s not the same kind of ‘secret’ order that Ronald Regan knew about. Right?
It’s one of them there differnt kind of secret orders…
Canadian jets, giving air support to Al Qaeda “rebels”; the same Al Qaeda that kills Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan. We don’t make this stuff up.
Per my previous posts on this issue. It’s not that BO makes bad decisions, it’s that he makes no decisions. In military conflict, that’s lethal.
Yup, CJUNK nailed it.
If the Al Qaeda rumors are true, this would seem a monster opportunity for the Liberals and Dippers to assail PMSH on the foreign policy front; unless they want to support Al Qaeda.
I wonder why the opposition is so quiet on an issue that is likely the most volatile issue of the day. Are the Liberals and the Dippers for or against the Libyan coalition? And why?
I truly believe that anyone who takes an anti-Libyan coalition position could see their poll numbers jump by large integers. I’m baffled why the opposition is demonizing F-35s but not the ‘new war’. They must be political-retards in the War Rooms of the opposition parties. Am I wrong?
IMO, even though it’s late(but not too late) we should determine the constitution of the rebels and GTFO if they are in fact Al Qaeda. THEN… we sit back and hope for the asteroid.
“President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.”
Er, if it’s secret, how do we know about it?
Who needs Julian Assange…
Obama… The Exlax President. Everything he touches turns immediately to shit…. We had Desert Storm… This is Obama’s Shit Storm… Looks good on him…
“They must be political-retards in the War Rooms of the opposition parties. Am I wrong?”
Ours is a nation of “political-retards”.
Exhibit A: the current unwanted and unneeded election.
V for Victory: …-
A victory for Conservative Prime Minister Harper …-
“* But westward, look, the land is bright!” …-
“But Mr. Obama’s mention of Canadian oil, in a major speech on U.S. energy security, constitutes at least something of a victory for Prime Minister Stephen Harper.” …-
…- “But Mr. Obama’s mention of Canadian oil, in a major speech on U.S. energy security, constitutes at least something of a victory for Prime Minister Stephen Harper. During a White House meeting last month, Mr. Harper said the United States faced a “choice” between importing oil “from the most secure, most stable and friendliest location it can possibly get that energy [from], which is Canada, or from other places that are not as secure, stable or friendly to the interests and values of the United States.” …-
“Obama calls for deep cuts in U.S. oil imports”
“singled out Canada among a handful of nations the United States must continue to rely on as “stable and steady” foreign sources of secure energy.”
http://www.financialpost.com/news/Obama+calls+deep+cuts+imports/4529595/story.html
…- V for Victory:
“* But westward, look, the land is bright!” …-
Arthur Hugh Clough
http://poemhunter.com/poem/say-not-the-struggle-naught-availeth/
c.c. Blue Like You
Indiana, the opposition doesn’t have to and doesn’t want to take a position. They agreed with the government to postpone the debate for three months, conveniently after the election which they then knew was coming and would be settled first. Remember, this is all being done under the UN policy of Right To Protect, which the Left vigorously championed. They get burned hugely if it turns out RTP means flying airstrikes on behalf of the same bunch that brought down the World Trade towers.
What’s interesting in all this is the media’s conspiracy of silence in avoiding asking any of them about it. The media is so often mythologized as the defender of free speech, yadda, yadda.
Instead what we have here is an act of huge self-censorship. Any military question is going to play hugely against the dippers et.al. And Harper really doesn’t want to talk about it much because he would have to say something like Canada always has to go along with any UN-backed action the US undertakes no matter how inane.
No, it’s political suicide to take an anti-Libyan coalition position. The press is just waiting to jump on any such position as supporting that mad butcher Gadhaffi.
Face it, this is a heads you win, tails I lose position for all of us. Between Sarkozi and Al Qaeda, we’ve been completely suckered thanks to that useless moron in the White House and the silly bimbo who pretends to run US foreign policy.
A sovereign nation with a leader that has produced a stable and prosperous country for 41 years and now we’re supporting men with beards, that have an uncanny familiarity with AK-47’s and RPG’s (full beards are illegal in Libya) that say that they are Afstan fighters and Al Qaeda members. WTF are we doing in the middle of this dog’s breakfast.
Tunisia is now slaughtering Christians, Egypt is doing the same for the first time in decades and we want to support this “Regime Change”?????
I have a bad feeling about all of this. It may be a set-up by the Arabs.
Get our guys out of there now. If these muzzie bastards want to kill each other, then what’s the problem? Less to kill later. This world is heading for a serious sh*t storm. jmo.
The only thing we should give al Qaeda is a ticket to hell.
This is the same Obama who promised to meet Iran without pre-conditions, warmly greeted Iran with new year’s wishes and claimed shooting the streets of Tehran was “dialogue”. The Islamic dictators of the world must be his pin-ups or something.
Cjunk said it all.
Why are we picking sides and risking our soldiers lives in Lybia when neither side of that conflict is our friend?
It’s like being trapped between the KKK and Neo Nazis, I don’t want the rebels to win or the despot. Drop our bombs and leave them to go at it, I have no desire to prop up Alquacka on taxpayer’s dime.
Due to erratic inconsistent stances/statements on major policies I am beginning to wonder if Mr. Obama is not the president with Alzheimers while in office instead of that nice actor fellow.
“I have a bad feeling about all of this. It may be a set-up by the Arabs.”
Yep, I agree with Speake.
Plain and simple, I think this entire ME sh*t storm is a coordinated scheme by the muslim scum-bags!
Phone rings: “Barack!”
Scene in the Oval Office or perhaps on a sunny golf course:”Yes, Mr. Soros?”
“Stop making speeches for a few days”
“Yes, Mr. Soros.”
Click.
War by committee what could go wrong.
My take on this is way different from most, left or right. I don’t disagree with the remarks above in isolation, but the context here may be something entirely different.
Obama is not the major player here. This is a European directed use of NATO force (with Germany very lukewarm if not opposed) and Obama has been dragged into taking a stand he alone would have probably avoided just on first principles (no military action in any situation). The Clintons and the military establishment in the U.S. have forced him to play along. His heart is not in this which is a fatal flaw because without a hawk in the WH, sufficient force to overcome Gadhafi will never be assembled and the only stable outcome would be partition of Libya, in such a way as to minimize Gadhafi’s control over oil exports. Since a lot of oil exports go out near the current area of fighting, this may still take an invasion at least to shore up the eventual division line.
Those who say we shouldn’t have gone in at all may be right in terms of avoiding this situation, but then we would be discussing a bloodbath in Benghazi plus greater possibility of the unrest spreading into Egypt.
But where I totally diverge in outlook is on the wider context. I believe that western military intel has picked up signs of a coming war between Syria and Israel through Iranian agitation in Lebanon. Therefore there is a greater willingness to move military assets into the Med and have them engaged, because a future phase of this entirely untenable “Arab spring” will no doubt be an explosion of hostility in the region around Israel. The Palis will be mobilized into increasing intifadah style action as this surge of largely irrational social uprising spreads.
I think we all know that “Arab spring” was a flawed concept from the start, just because millions of people have cell phones and can talk to each other does not guarantee a democracy and civil society, when cultural foundations are as hostile to those outcomes as we see in the Islamic world.
But it’s clear that large-scale forces are converging through this Arab spring and if we think we can just sit back and watch without getting involved, then we are dreaming because it will inevitably force our intervention at some point, either to save Israel from destruction, or to hold on to any stable oil exports from the region. Given this is only March and large-scale events like this usually peak in the summer for various reasons, I think Libya will prove to be only a very small opening round in what will turn into regional war and something approaching a global crisis if not a full-blown global crisis, because everyone will try to exploit this to their own advantage — China, Russia, India, Pakistan, to name a few, will have very confrontational positions as this develops.
As to the short term, I think the smart move now would be to land a few divisions behind the lines in eastern Libya and keep a close eye on the provisional government of what is going to become East Libya under some other name perhaps. Gadhafi, we should continue to hunt from the air, and kill if possible, because he will not wish to do anyone any good from now on (and as far as I’m concerned, after Lockerbie, he’s been on borrowed time, he should have been hunted down right then and there).
Bring the fly boys home! The ME is a boiling mess and we will get boiled if we hang around the boiling pots. The people there must sort out their own problems, if there is any nation we should be helping it is Israel. Period.
With OPEC brining in a Trillion a day in profits while Obama spends a Trillion.
What do the Islamists spend the money on? Every form of war including a 5th column, lawsuits, madrases, colonial backing to immigrants. Rockets & missals with Iran making nukes.
he’s pissed off all Americas Allies. Most Americans have no idea how close to social, plus monetary collapse they are.
China owns them the minute they call in the debt.
mean while we fight for the very folks who’s stated goal in this life is to kill, or convert as many Westerners as possible.
Obama just sits back & grins at the mayhem, as the press try to hide it all for their Marxist messiah. While trying to make Islamists hero’s, just 10 years after killing 3000 people.
Get our people out of this.
JMO
Spot on RD. Canada is helping Obama build a bridge on the River Kwai. It’s madness!
Simple i agree kate get our toops out of there!!!
I am with those who support disengaging from this conflict. I fear it will be similar to Kosovo in that the West supports the wrong side. As for this case it seems a big mistake to support either side.
Simple, Obama got 5 dollars down on Qaddafi even up. He figured Qaddafi has the home court advantage and better shooters from behind the arc. Then the line moved and he got another 5 dollars down on the rebels plus 3 points. He needs Qaddafi to win a squeeker and he wins both bets!
By the way, he has the Saudis in Bahrain. They might be away from home but Abrahms inside is pretty tough to beat.
Cjunk nails it, our fly boys and others may well be providing air support for Al Qaeda. It will depend on how the power struggle for control of the Libyan government goes if in fact the rebels do win. If Gaddafi wins it could be a mute point as he would take care of or attempt to take care of Bin Laden troops.
cgh is right when saying “this is a heads you win, tails I lose position for all of us”.
I agree with Peter on the wider context. I believe this unrest in the ME is building into something that will turn the world upside down.
This could also be interesting on the home front in many European countries. There is a built in 5th column and semi-organized partisan group in those countries which will raise up to help their brothers in the ME by attempting to paralyze the European home fronts.
Sometimes I think it would be better if we let them kill each other off. I know it is not Christian to think like that, but the way demographics are going and Islamic radicalism is rising there are going to be some tough times ahead.
An old saying about the world of spies:
“The more comforting the truth (received), the more damaging the lie (to come later).
The Modern Military is perfectly designed for war in Middle East deserts (which most of it is with the exception of Afghanistan)
When the Arab world goes for it and the Nato coalition is forced to ramp it up….. those untrained teenagers with AK 47’s and RPG’s will be running home to mommy like the rebels currently are from Quaddaffi’s superior armament and trained soldiers. Further, our more sophisticated armaments and planes, battle management systems and stealth aircraft will defeat the vast majority of the armaments we sold them.
There’s no place to hide.
Great place to drop tactical nukes too.
Those who say we shouldn’t have gone in at all may be right in terms of avoiding this situation, but then we would be discussing a bloodbath in Benghazi plus greater possibility of the unrest spreading into Egypt.
~Peter O’Donnell March 30, 2011 9:35 PM
The supposed “bloodbath” in Benghazi, if it had occurred at all, would have been the rebels.
We only have the MSM’s word that civilians were a target at all.
As for Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood already has Egypt and they are they same people as these rebels.
Did you know that K-Daffy and the cohort with him which overthrew the government of the liberal King Idris of Libya were radicalized to do so by the Egyptians and that the people who split from K-Daffy’s government to form the new rebel government are that same cohort that is now pretending to be spearheading a “people’s revolution” under the flag that King Idris ruled Libya under and which they themselves changed in the first place after the coup d’état?
One of the basics of warfare is know your enemy….the flip side is to know your allies….
What I find disturbing is not that there has been no inquiry into who the rebels are…it is that the UN/Nato are in denial of what they have learned….
The inconvenient truth is that we have been giving Al Qaida air cover and close air support instead of bombing the ba$tards….
Time to go home…..
What I find disturbing is not that there has been no inquiry into who the rebels are…
The known rebel leadership are administrators who worked for K-Daffy and split with him to form the core of the revolutionary council.
The unknown council members names are being kept secret supposedly to protect their families from being targeted by K-Daffy.
I saw an action photo of the “Libyan rebels” on Fox news site earlier this morning showing 2 Toyota pickup trucks, one with a quad AAA rig the other with the Russian version of the M2 hmg, all of the “rebels” were dressed just like Gulf Arabs.(Bedouin head dress etc. not dressed like Libyans at all)
They changed the photo in about 10 minutes, someone must have noticed what it implied.
Ted you dork,we are aiding the same people that we fought in Iraq and Afganistan,thats what Kate and others are saying.
Peter O’donnel;I quit reading your post when you said that the vice president and the military are behind the U.S. action in Lybia.President Truman had a sign on his desk that said “the buck stops here”.In any administration the president is ALWAYS the last word and the buck stops with him,if not, then there is a “coup” and others are in charge.
And btw, we have about 10 pilots over there. Hardly a contribution worth making a fuss about.
Unless one of them is a member of ones own family,Piss off Teddy.