83 Replies to “French “Youths” Versus Police”

  1. the police should shoot those who threaten to kill them. Or are the guns just for show?
    ~Osumashi Kinyobe
    If they had actually shot those guys they could have ended up being swarmed.
    I doubt the police had enough ammo with them to get out alive if they had discharged their pistols.
    The problem is that politcal correctness still prevents the formulation of special policy to deal specifically with the No-go Zones.
    Who mentions race first?
    Alex does at 7:08 AM.
    What gets Alex’s attention first, the behaviour of these characters or the color of their skin?
    Race seems to be an obsession with racists.

  2. They have enough ammo. What’s lacking is the will to tackle the issue in the offices of their superiors.

  3. Eh. You can use whatever mental gymnastics you like in order to justify your attitude, but the plain fact is that 20 years ago you would have been complaining about blacks in ghettoes, 60 years ago you would have been bitching about those goddamn Italians, and before that it would probably have been the Jews and the Irish. With each iteration, the increas in crime and lawlessness would have been a signal to you that society is about to collapse because those goddamn liberals aren’t willing to be tougher. It’s not so much that you’re racist as that you’re scared shitless and xenophobic, looking to blame whichever ethnic or racial group is currently in the spotlight. You’re not happy unless you have a clearly defined enemy, and the complexities of human social dynamics completely escape you.
    I don’t expect to change your behaviour; you can’t reason someone out of a position which they didn’t arrive at through reason in the first place. I just can’t stand by while people who self-identify as Canadians go on rabid, ignorant rants. I’d expect moderate Muslims to denounce the fanatics in their midst, so I’m certainly not going to ignore the fanatics in my society. If I get a few raders to step back and re-evaluate their position, that’s just a bonus.

  4. Moral relativism at work, Akhmed ibn Alex.
    There is no such thing as moderate muslim, as there is no basis for being moderate in islam.
    Define moderate first.
    If by moderate you mean someone who practices only part of requirements imposed on the muslims by quran and a-hadith, then there is a definition for those in islam – they are called they hypocrits. Being such they are a legitimate target for jihad. According to quran those who refuse to obey all its suras are actually considered apostates. Do you want to house legitimate targets of terrorists among us? I don’t – this is not my fight.
    Before you start passing judgment on the topic of islam, you must read the quran and hadith (unless you’ve done so and are simply a muslim mole). Not all hadiths are considered legitimate by the sunny muslims. They consider some hadiths forgeries created by the shia. Hadith by Sahih Bukhari is a reliable one.
    Go ahead, do your reading homework and remember, that the later suras in the quran abrogate the earlier ones.
    Chiao!

  5. Well Alex very few moderate muslims have. So expectations fail. After all THEY’RE not extremists what business is it of theirs? Unless….you’re grouping them all by their creed *gasp*

  6. Alex, please do let us know when you’ve finished feeding the crocodile.
    mhb23re at gmail d0t calm

  7. M:
    “Well Alex very few moderate muslims have. So expectations fail.”
    That, of course, depends on your definition of “very few”, but even if none at all had done so, it wouldn’t change the fact that I have a responsibility to act how I would want others to act. I didn’t think I’d need to explain such a basic point – with the abundance of christians in these forums I expected the majority to understand that particular concept.

  8. Alex,
    you are more offended by our innocent comments than by the fact those people GANG RAPED A GIRL and threw rocks at police officers.
    You can kill a human being with a rock to the head.
    Read that again.
    You can kill a human being with a rock to the head.
    Our little innocent comments bother you MORE than the dignity of that girl or the life of those police officers or the fact it is impossible to uphold law and order in those neighborhoods.
    You do not care about law and order or rape.
    You care about what non-liberals post in little comment boxes.
    If you do not work at the Human Rights Courts already you should apply for a job there, you are just the kind of twisted people who have a twisted view of what is an injustice and what is a crime the HRC likes to hire.
    Alex poor Alex… you are fu**ed up man!

  9. an excuse to rant against…..the French government and unions
    Alex, it wasn’t a rant. It was statement of the fact.
    Police in France are unionized so they listen to what the unions tell them to do and how to behave. French Government dictates the policy of the bureaucracy. The “soft posture” towards protesters and the peoples of banlieues resulted in the present behaviour of the “youth”.
    You would be correct to call my post “ranting” if and only if it was “an angry/ empty-of-facts tirade”. It wasn’t so it isn’t.
    ****
    On the other hand your post from November 22, 2010 3:02 PM IS a tirade. In which one can find (among others) a blind spot bias, a confirmation bias, a forward bias, a projection bias, a negativity bias………….
    Hmmm I think I made a mistake calling your post “tirade”, it should be called “a textbook example of different biases and fallacies.”

  10. “Sounds to me like alex hates himself at this point.”
    Well, I can understand the temptation.
    I wonder if Alex is sincere, or whether he’s just trying to press buttons and derail threads, which is kind of the vibe I get.
    Anyway, Aaron @11:39 is right: Don’t feed the troll.

  12. Osumashi Kinyobe the mission was to get to the rape scene and interview people.
    Shooting one of their tribe doesn’t get you an interview.
    It would also get you a lot of paperwork if you got out alive.
    Remember 2006, the Paris Car-B-Qs?
    That was precipitated by French police chasing 2 little thieves who scaled the fence to hide in an electrical transformer station and one of the little darlings grabbed the wrong wire and fried himself.
    The police were blamed for the death just because they were chasing the thieves and 2 straight weeks of riots ensued with up to 2000 cars burned every single night.
    Imagine 2 cops shooting one gangster in the kneecap inside the No-Go Zone right where they live.
    The wouldn’t have enough ammo to get out alive.
    It would be like Mogadishu and Black Hawk Down.

  14. Osumashi Kinyobe, what happened was better than nothing.
    They tried, and in trying they now have a record out a failure to learn from and can add to the weight of knowledge they have about the crime situation in these areas.
    This field experience can be examined and if the political will develops to act, this case can be used to help derive tactics and a winning strategy going forward.

  15. Oz – the “mission” changed when the Police were threatened with tear gas, basball bats, and sheer numbers. The French Police – renouned for their toughness, as I said before – lost face when they backed off. The cops are always happy enough to subdue a harmless, middle-class person who defies them, aren’t they? Take a little of that energy out on the thugs in the banlieues, mes amis.

  16. Oz, that’s a horrible reason for avoiding confrontation.
    As long as you’re avoiding contact because you’re afraid of what the future response might be, you’re losing, and you’re going to keep losing. Their only consideration should have been their own safety – if you don’t have the manpower to effectively arrest the belligerents within the confines of your use-of-force model, then pull back, get on the radio, and return in force. Which is apparently what they did, or at least attempted to do.

  17. troll Alex – bollux. Everything doesn’t need to be a broadway production; just shoot for the shin.

  18. What happened to ‘don’t feed the trolls’ practice?
    Posted by: Aaron at November 22, 2010 11:39 AM
    It was never instituted.

  19. Oz, the police could have learned that lesson from the “car-b-ques”. They backed off. Did they return in greater numbers? Was the victim ever interviewed? Were the thugs at least charged with obstruction of justice?
    I understand what you are saying but I don’t think it was right.

  20. To paraphrase the irrepressible and indomitable Kathy Shaidle: “Dear Wehrmacht, please come back. All is forgiven.”

  21. Alex
    “….I’m just confused about who I’m supposed to hate more in this video: the Muslims, the Negroes, or the French. Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks!….”
    It’s not all that confusing Alex, and you did get the order correct in this situation. Just remember the world is fluid, and at different times and in different places, the order changes to suit the environment(s) in which one finds themselves.
    Example #1: Zimbabwe 2001, it would be Negro, Islam, French.
    Example #2: Alberta pre 1980, it would be French, Negro, Islam.
    Example #3: Amsterdam 2000 – Current, it would be Islam, Negro, French.
    Obviously example #3 is more in tune with the current situation in France.
    Hope this helps.

  23. “But you left out the socialists and the unions. Where do they fit into the wheel-o-hate?”
    Well, it’s simple, we hate them, troll, whom I’m going to begin ignoring about now.

  24. “But you left out the socialists and the unions. Where do they fit into the wheel-o-hate?
    Oh contraire, the simple answer to that is right behind the lefty blog trolls, but again the world is far more complex that that.
    What all the unmentioned above fail to realize is their universal roles as useful idiots in society. You easily can hate them to be sure, but you can also use them like personal doormats whenever you wish to air your views in an otherwise vacuum.
    “They” as you well know will always set the stage, it is then up to us to direct the play at their expense.

  25. Yup, blame the liberals. In fact, Jason Kenney is too busy courting the “new Canadian” vote to change Canada’s immigration system. Been four years, and your Harper Govt. pals obviously like the system as it is.

  26. “Oh contraire”
    I don’t think that phrase means what you think it means.
    “What all the unmentioned above fail to realize …”
    Is that commenting after a bottle of scotch is a lot more fun?

  27. “Is that commenting after a bottle of scotch is a lot more fun?”
    lol Try again after you sober up, son.
    On second thought, don’t bother. I mean, your post-male anti-structuralist race-baiting 101 class has GOT to be FAR more engaging than we are. And far more useful!
    Right?

  28. Osumashi said: “Oz, all one needs to do is shoot the guy with the baseball bat in the kneecap.”
    Osumashi, not to be a gun weenie or anything, but do you have any idea how hard it is to a guy in the kneecap with a pistol? Combat pistol SOP is two rounds to the center of mass, not because pistol shooters are bloodthirsty but because it is so freakin’ hard to hit a moving object offhand with a pistol. Like, maybe Annie Oakley could make that knee shot three times out of five.
    I don’t fault the cops for walking away. I fault their leadership for allowing punks to take over housing projects as a social policy. And for sending their men into impossible situations.
    Punks are organized, you know?

  30. I think its more that you’re expecting too much from a pistol. Common problem in our Hollywood disinformed world where the good guys can shoot the wings off a fly, and Angelina Jolie can lay a beat-down on a six foot two hundred pound man.
    Pistols, basically, are crap. It is said the purpose of the pistol is to keep you alive until you can get to a real gun. They are underpowered, inaccurate, fiddly and prone to stoppages. Hitting a man-sized target at more than 25 yards under combat stress requires diligent practice and coaching. Hitting a -moving- man sized target under those conditions requires devotion like an Olympic athlete. Hitting a kneecap? Forget it.
    You can’t just “wing him” like in the movies.

  31. You’re overstating it a bit. A good pistol in the hands of a trained professional is a formidable tool. It’s only military trigger-pullers that describe the purpose of the pistol as “to keep you alive until you can get to a real gun”. I’m sure that artillerymen say the same thing about a rifle. You’re right in saying that Holywood creates some unrealistic beliefs amongst the general public, but the situation isn’t quite as dire as you’re describing it, either.
    As for the “shoot for the kneecap” bit, yeah, you only hear that from people who’ve never had to use a pistol. Even with a decent rifle I’d go for center of mass. A leg shot can be just as deadly as a hit to the torso, so if you’ve gotten to the point where lethal force is justified you may as well go for the easier target.

  32. The Phantom>
    “They are underpowered, inaccurate, fiddly and prone to stoppages.”
    Not my Kimber Gold Combat II .45ACP, but that’s beside the point.
    I would say a calm trained to shoot cop could have nailed “batman” in the video wherever he wanted, although center of mass is probably trained into the French cops as with anywhere else. The smart move was obviously to get out of there in this case though, who knows what that cop was carrying and how much ammo. The French might even have a little puff of perfume delicately exit the barrel upon caressing the trigger.
    The key is coming back to the neighborhood with a SWAT team and some riot gear. Them boyz ain’t going nowhere, and then really make it personal.

  33. Alex said: “A good pistol in the hands of a trained professional is a formidable tool.”
    So is a hammer.
    I’ve met two “men” (crack heads) shot with 9mm pistols who not only survived, but RAN several blocks immediately after being shot repeatedly. One of them got it through the liver, then sideways through the neck, then through the head of the fibula while running away like a deer. The other one took a couple in the torso, again while running away.
    I met another guy who shot himself (by stupidity) directly through the abdominal aorta with a .38 revolver. Dandy scar.
    There’s a reason deer hunters hump those .30-06s around instead of a nice light .45 pistol. The reason is deer can run for miles and miles unless you really frig them up with the first round. Humans are like that too, but worse.
    As to “professionals”, most cops qualify twice a year. Meaning their piece leaves the holster and maybe gets cleaned twice a year. Police marksmanship is generally appalling in my experience, and police shooting statistics bear that out.
    All pistols are crap compared to any decent rifle for stopping power and accuracy. That said, a pistol beats a flashlight when the chips are down. Its just enough fight stopper to get you the hell out of Dodge, and that video is of guys doing just that. Those guys know what’s what.

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