71 Replies to “The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire”

  1. So as long as Americans are not coming to kill you, it’s Ok to kill other foreigners in other foreign countries? What happened to due process? Not that I am heartbroken about Assange, just speaking from integrity.

  2. Aaron: yes, it’s okay. You’re welcome!
    BTW – your “integrity” has the feeling of warm spittle hitting the face.

  5. there are several aspects to this case that are extremely questionable:
    the US soldier who leaked the documents had already been caught and tried before their release. he was discovered due to a fellow “respectable” hacker outing him. authorities referring to successful hackers as respectable is already a stretch, and a hacker ratting out another hacker is about as likely as a priest reporting the private confession of another priest to the police. as kate and other highly respected posters here at SDA have frequently remarked, the actual fallout and retribution from the US government has been shockingly minimal.
    most people seem to connect these dots and conclude that the current administration is inept and weak. this may be true, but it would also suggest that the pentagon is also inept and weak, despite their ability to apprehend the perpetrator long before anything had been made public.
    so i agree. normally, assange would have been taken out long before anyone had ever heard of him. he’s still kicking around because the powers that be actually want this information to be public, despite whatever they may say about it. these leaks were made on purpose.

  7. Al, as far as I know, one has to be a citizen of a country in order to be able to commit treason against it. Assange is a citizen of Australia, IIRC, so he cannot be tried for treason against the U.S.A. He could be tried for espionage, and hanged for that, though.
    And, yes, the difficulties, under international law (or lawlessness) of getting some of these evil bastards to trial is why we in civilized Western nations should use our secret intelligence agencies to do that sort of “wet work”, as the KGB called it.
    After all, using Predator drones to blow up Al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan is exactly that: targeted assassinations. If we are willing to legitimize those killings, we should also legitimize the killing of other enemies that are beyond the reach of the law.

  8. In the age of the internet, anti-western sentiments and divided loyalties this stuff is bound to happen. Hell Eric Holder is scaring all the CIA guys. They don’t want to do operations if it means they’ll be prosecuted every time an administration changes. So it goes.
    Also Julian Assange is an Austrailian and technically a spy since he’s basically making contacts and moving information. A hellfire from 10,000 ft or a polonium pellet fired from an umbrella is all the due process that he’s entitled to.
    That is, unless you’re like the Spanish with an insufferable hubris who thinks that your courts can just try anyone from anywhere in absentia based on your laws. The very same principled Spanish who completely caved after the Madrid bombings. I wonder if the US bombed them afterward if they’d switch sides again because they’d be funny.

  9. I very much like where this thread is going. Why indeed is this POS being kid-gloved? We need the modern equivalent of MACV-SOG on his case.

  11. It’s interesting in regard to Assange that Vladimir Putin et al.
    have very publicly honoured the latest Russian spies.
    As spies go, I didn’t think that they amounted to much. It was noted that this “wasn’t helpful”.
    But of course Mr. Putin was making a public demonstration of
    his complete and total contempt for Obama and the US Administration.
    What must astound the Russian leadership is the
    extent to which Obama et al. don’t get it.
    One would like to shout at the Obama, “you’ve just been insulted!” Same with the NYT.
    But it wouldn’t help.
    It’s the same with al Quaeda etc. Osama bin Laden
    is one of the most effective communicators on the planet.
    He is very clear as to his aims and motives.
    And if his words doesn’t get through, one of his suicide bombers might.
    But yet the motives behind e.g. Maj. Nidal Hassan remain a deep mystery to
    leftists.
    Re the question of treason: Assange is not a US citizen, so he has not committed treason against the US.
    He is apparently an Australian citizen, and Australia is not, I believe, involved in Afghanistan.
    It is a US ally, of course, but it is not obvious to me that he has committed treason against Australia.
    Assange’s actions really are more like a private act of war against the US.
    But then, we don’t do anything with Somali pirates except give them a shower, do we?
    It’s disgusting living among wimps.

  12. So the CIA, famed for its evilness in training South American paramilitaries and running drugs in Vietnam and Iran-Contra and being mean to jihadis and what have you, the CIA can’t handle Assange? It’s a curious world we live in.

  13. Holy crap, you’ve got to read his Wikipedia entry – father was a cultist, Assange spent a good portion of his life performing illegal hacking, resulting in police raids, arrests, and the consequent loss of his family. Committed hard-core leftist activist…interesting reading. Daniel Ellsberg loves him.

  14. Hey, don’t put us all spaniards on the same boat; we are very, very fed up with the administration we have had since the train bombings; but yes, the sheeple did elect Bin Zapatero (and then re-elected him, since he is so great…), and the oppostion conservatives have been rather useless (i.e. stabbing each other) at federal level (who knew Spain was a federal state, eh?).
    The huge PR problem the US have in Spain… is that the US is directly responsible for the loss of Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philipines… history is serious business in Spain, 1898 is only a couple of weeks ago when viewed against a >2,000 year history.
    From a conservative point of view, the second PR hurdle faced by the US: Franco was a dictator, yes, but he was responsible for kicking out the communists that had subverted the Spanish Republic; we do not know with certainty what Franco would have done after WWII, but we do know that Franco really hoped to get some support from the UK and the US after WWII (as he was the only factor that stopped the Iberian peninsula from becoming a soviet satellite). Instead, he got an embargo and interesting conspiracies to depose him (somewhat supported by MI6, at the time).
    An impassable hurdle for the US are the rabid socialists in Spain, they see the US as the antithesis of socialism; they will never befriend the US and it is pointless addressing them.

  15. Unfortunately for us all you folks are the worst enemies of conservatism with small ‘c’.
    When you are advocating for clandestine assassinations or speeding on the highways you are completely forgetting that the bleeding heart pinko liberal types, who otherwise could have had brains to comprehend fiscal and social conservatism and eventually see the light of it, are shocked and appalled by your lack of respect to the laws and your despicable cruelty.
    I know that few liberals read this blog, but still some do and some read quotes from here on their liberal blogs. You are giving them fodder for smearing conservatism with all kinds of nasty labels.
    Here, just like in that conversation we had a year ago or so about speeding, where you tried to convince me that violating speed limit is nice and dandy, you let emotions harm our cause. Only a very dumb person might hope that when conservative advocates speeding, the liberal types will not connect the dots and start thinking that those redneck types should not be allowed to own guns.
    You are scaring them sh1tless by creating impression of rogue lawless type which cannot be trusted with tying shoe laces, needless to speak governing or owning handguns and assault rifles.
    But I am preaching to a choir, I know. The culture of self-congratulation on this blog is overwhelming.

  16. Here’s an interesting excerpt from that Guardian article: “Assange told The Guardian that British firm Moneybookers, an online payment company it uses to collect donations, closed his website’s account in August after the US and Australian governments blacklisted WikiLeaks in the days following the initial release of Afghan documents. The website has been undergoing “scheduled maintenance” since September 29, but promises to “be back online as soon as possible.”
    It would appear that The Good Guys’ geeks are busy on this matter. That’s all well and good, I hope they can keep Wikileaks permanently shut down. Although, that’d be a global game of server “whack-a-mole” that we can’t be assured of ultimately winning.
    IMO, the bottom line is that yes, what needs to take place, Assange’s death from whatever causes, won’t happen under the Obama Administration.
    One of the attributes of a successful president is the ability to act ruthlessly when necessary. BTW, under the War Measures Act, the president does have the lawful authority to have foreign enemies killed. He may give that lawful order to do so but he must afterwards advise a select very few top Congressmen on the House and Intelligence Committees. That makes it fully legal under the War Measures Act, regardless of declared war, undeclared war, such as today’s tacit War on Islamofascism. This legality is also regardless of whether or not they agree with the president on that action.
    This is my pure speculation but I don’t think we’ve had a Democrat president since Harry Truman who’d give that order, regardless of how necessary and urgent the need. I further speculate that Republican presidents Eisenhower, Nixon would definitely be willing to do so and Reagan, GW Bush would seriously consider and probably give that order.

  17. Well Aaron, you could always leave, you troll libtard pseudo-conservative sphincter-hole.

  18. Gordinkneehill: “As far as I know, one has to be a citizen of a country in order to be able to commit treason against it. Assange is a citizen of Australia, IIRC, so he cannot be tried for treason against the U.S.A.”
    Okay, but…
    “For the Iraq leak, Wikileaks is believed to be teaming up with the same news outlets as it did for the Afghanistan document dump — The New York Times, Britain’s Guardian and Der Spiegel of Germany — and Newsweek magazine has reported that all partners would release the material simultaneously.”
    (emph. mine)

  19. Wups, a correction to my comments above, in the second to last paragraph. “He may give that lawful order to do so but he must afterwards [within 30 days] advise a select very few top [Senators and]Congressmen on the House and [Senate] Intelligence Committees.”

  20. BTW “Aaron”, English obviously isn’t your native tongue – your real name wouldn’t be Harun, would it?

  21. Aaron wrote: You are giving them fodder for smearing conservatism with all kinds of nasty labels.
    You’re kidding right? If every Conservative said nothing at all, the left would still be smearing us. I for one don’t give a rip what any liberal has to say about anything anymore. Screw ’em.

  23. Yes, Michael, I can always leave, or shut up, but that won’t make things in Canada any better. Specially for the gun owners, which is important for me. You folks being unhelpful, even detrimental, bothers me.
    And you don’t qualify for calling me a leftard. You were grilled by the communist party operatives for questioning official point of view in the USSR, I was. Your grand fathers did not have farm confiscated by the bolsheviks – mine was. So you do better keep your mouth shut about the things you have no clue about – the reason is outlined in the 2nd post preceding yours.

  24. Yes, Michael, I can always leave, or shut up, but that won’t make things in Canada any better. Specially for the gun owners, which is important for me. You folks being unhelpful, even detrimental, bothers me.
    And you don’t qualify for calling me a leftard. You were not grilled by the communist party operatives for questioning official point of view in the USSR, I was. Your grand fathers did not have farm confiscated by the bolsheviks – mine was. So you do better keep your mouth shut about the things you have no clue about – the reason is outlined in the 2nd post preceding yours.

  25. “If every Conservative said nothing at all, the left would still be smearing us.”
    I’ve been recommending to my conservative friends that they rent the Eminem movie 8 Mile and watch it to the end, for a primer on how to deal with this phenomenon.

  26. Yes, Michael, English is not by mother tongue indeed, and I did not have taxpayer funded tutors who would polish my spelling and grammar. When the other newcomers to Canada attended LINK and ESL, I was pulling 16 hour shifts to feed my family and Canadian welfare cases.

  27. Oh SNAP!..Micheal Anderson is on a tear!
    Stop and take a breathe, go read some books, and maybe you’ll have something of some worth to write.
    Why people shoot the messenger I’ll never know. You people would rather keep your heads up your ass and never know what’s going on? Or know 20 years from now, after it’s all said and done?
    The doc’s leaked by Julian haven’t done sh1t to undermine the efforts in Iraq!
    Once upon a time…what, back in the good old days of Vietnam? Boy, that one sure turned out well didn’t it! Man, all those dissenters had it backwards didn’t they :S

  28. Well then, you’re just in the wrong blog for the wrong reasons. What you call cruelty, we call common sense. Maybe you see actions in Afstan and Iraq as somehow Bolshevik in intention – I don’t.
    We’ll agree to disagree, and yeah – re-read Terry Anderson’s comment. Liberals are swine, and personally my only objective is to point that out at any opprtunity, not to fret about their tender feelings (or lack of them) toward me.

  29. Sigh…when they preface a rebuttal with “Oh SNAP!”, you know it’s time to stop feeding the lemurs.

  30. You fools! If only you understood that giving undue legal protections to foreign nationals and abandoning your insane vehicular temerity that you can convince people to abandon their deeply held beliefs and embrace everything that was anathema to them all but 30 seconds ago. You people, you SCARE people. You’re as scary as torch and cross bearing, pillow-case clad mob in Tennessee.
    Mark my words if you unilaterally disengage your passions other people will reciprocate and tone down their hysteria! Just look at Obama, FINALLY there’s a president who respects habeas corpus and is holding fair trials for enemy combatants. They’re not show trials at all! What is the result? Well terrorist plots are down, people respect America once more, and extremists are even surrendering to local governments.
    The only way you can convince people about the correctness of your beliefs is to only advocate for the superficial parts of it. Never state any logical conclusions you might reach by following them! Also you need to smile more. That’s all it takes, then they’ll drop their suspicions of you and hell they won’t even accuse you of a “hidden agenda”. Then it will be like a surge of conservative enlightenment around the world. It will be like tongues of fire infused with the essence of Locke and the articulateness of Jefferson descended on the pinko masses.
    and J, my apologies to another fellow with a single letter moniker. I was merely voicing umbrage at how quickly that pro-Iraq government was turfed and the not-exclusively-Spanish practice of show trials for foreign nationals for ostensibly foreign crimes in Spanish courts.

  31. M – awesome. And it’s so true; why, just the other day a tiny country gave its home-grown terrorists a big chunk of land called Gaza, and those terrorists settled right…down…um, later.

  32. “Why people shoot the messenger I’ll never know”
    BTJ=Burn The Jews
    Because the messenger is a killer of our allies who trusted us but you’re right you’ll never “KNOW” it because you don’t want to “know” it.
    You’ve closed yourself off and openly revel in your ignorance, you actually boast about it.
    India also solved their terrorist problems by ripping their country in half and now the Pak muslims are India’s bestest fwiends in the whole wide world.

  34. They are going about this all wrong.
    The PENTAGON cyber warfare unit should release a data base salted with real but generaly benign data, but include a nasty worm. Said worm could infect all those who download the Wikileaks database, report back to the pentagon and then melt the computer.
    I agree with Aaron, that we should not be advocating the assassination of someone like Assange. If it is okay to assasinate someone on the other side, what is to stop them from doing us. Kind of like the Golden Rule.
    The name calling and personal attacks are juvenile.

  35. treason is the crime that covers some of the more serious acts of betrayal of one’s sovereign or nation.
    Firing squad.
    Now.

  36. “So the CIA, famed for its evilness in training South American paramilitaries and running drugs in Vietnam and Iran-Contra and being mean to jihadis and what have you, the CIA can’t handle Assange? It’s a curious world we live in.”
    ~Black Mamba
    It is indeed a curious world.
    Have you thought to Bing/Google>…..Julian Assange + CIA
    Surprising really./

  37. Whatever your beliefs on the war may be, surely there is some small part of your brain that tells you not release certain information lest it cause damage.
    I guess not.

  39. “Because the messenger is a killer of our allies ”
    Who did Julian Assange kill?
    “He’s a dispicable coward”
    He’s a coward for revealing the truth knowing full well that the FBI and CIA would be after him? Huh? Coward would be the person sitting behind a computer typing about how cowardly others are.

  40. Proof that the FBI and CIA are “after” nobody in particular and that the USA is stil the freest country on Earth: Chomsky is still alive to gibber his senile rants. Since BTJ is so brave, maybe he’d like to publish his address and phone number?…anyway…
    Aaron, you seem like you’re capable of reason, but you need to understand somethingt important: there is no homogenous mass of people here at SDA damaging the conervative cause. I for example would never advocate speeding, and neither did everyone here. Your mistake is to see “us” the same way you (corectly) see leftists, as parrot-brained followers who NEED to be told how to think and behave. That’s why successful leftism always ends in dictatorships.
    Here you will find a wide variety of opinion and a lot of disagreement, whatever hallucination a BTJ, a Davenport, a dizzy or a phil might be experiencing to the contrary.

  41. “Since BTJ is so brave, maybe he’d like to publish his address and phone number?…anyway…”
    I may be brave, but I’m not stupid.
    “there is no homogenous mass of people here at SDA damaging the conervative cause.”
    Ya, because the overwhelming echo in here isn’t a traditional Conservative view…it’s a Neo-Con view.

  42. Why, that’s not true – you ARE stupid!
    I hate dealing with you the way I hate cleaning the toilet, but I was wondering if you’d be kind enough to define the difference between Conservative and Neo-Con (love the capitals!) for us as you understand it. Thanks!
    BTW BTJ – that word is spelled “yeah”.

  44. I thought this thread was about “The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire”. Why is everyone straying so far off topic, and why is everyone in such a bad mood?

  45. Hmm, well, I was in a bad mood due to incessant trolling. On the positive side, it shows how hard it is for the trolls to stay on topic; they’d far rather joust with me, which is fine. Keeps them from sexually assaulting Swedish women.
    At the moment I’m listening to “Sounds and Pressure: Mod Reggae” on the Trojan label, which just arrived in today’s mail, and having a glass of wine, so the fact is I’m not really in a bad mood at all. Mods not only had excellent taste in music, they hated Commies and hippies, just like me! 🙂

  46. TJ – a couple of well placed trolls caused the derail
    Anyways as far as wikileaks goes the NSA has enough smarts and bandwidth to reduce their severs to smoking wreckage.

  47. BTJ – sorry, TJ – maybe you ought to actually read the original post and the comments afterward. Apart from unseemly childlike interruptions by trolls, it’s not really OT. The “Decline and Fall” part is a literary device called a title. You’re welcome!
    dkjones: not sure what you mean by “what’s to stop them from doing it to us”? Never heard of 9/11?

  48. The enemy is spilling secrets that would harm the the USA and the CIA will not or off him? Something isn’t right…

  50. maruc – another one who can’t even frickin’ read. You show me where I said anyone should assasinate Chomsky, you retard. Jesus wept…what in hell is the point when this is the best they can do…no challenge at all.

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