“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
– iron bars, chains and knives (to attack Israeli soldiers)
– videocams (to make fake-victim videos to provide Reuters, Associated Press and other enablers/accomplices)
– “back-stage” passes to the United Nations
Actually anything the left can provide the ennemies of Western Civilization with but that they do not want on a list because they know it is either illegal, immoral or hypocritical.
I’d be interested in seeing a comparable list of exports from Gaza. If any.
and why would anyone want a non-salt water swimming pool?
The “only democracy in the ME” (excluding Iraq) right on schedule. LOL
The “only democracy in the ME” (excluding Iraq) right on schedule. LOL
What? No pork rinds?
We showed those big-nosed kikes, eh?
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig, festem Schritt.
Kam’raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschier’n im Geist in unser’n Reihen mit.
Die Straße frei den braunen Batallionen.
Die Straße frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann!
Es schau’n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen.
Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an!
Zum letzten Mal wird schon Appell geblasen!
Zum Kampfe steh’n wir alle schon bereit!
Bald flattern Hitlerfahnen über alle Straßen.
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit!
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig-festem Schritt.
Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschieren im Geist in unseren Reihen mit.
Marc:
Considering that the GDP per head is only $3,100, they aren’t exporting much. According to Wikipedia, the main exports are citrus and cut flowers.
But I’d like to know what the time frame for that shipping list was. 24 million pounds of supplies sounds like a lot, but with 1.5 million people, that’s only 16 pounds per person, and some of it wasn’t food. I don’t eat much, but I’m pretty sure I go through 16 pounds of food each month.
Inconvenient questions…
9 truckloads of spices and 1 truckload of cement? Surely it’s the other way around. The 12 truckloads of “aggregates” could be 40,000 AK-47s and plenty of ammo for all of them.
KevinB, the link shows this as shipments from June 6-12.
16 lbs a week, about 8 quarts of wheat/week…minus other commodities. Livin’ high off the hog, yessir…
I like how, in a detailed list, the second largest item has no detail, just a meaningless heading.
BTJ, I mean THL, sorry about that – they don’t have to send *anything at all*. Gaza is a haven for the enemies of Israel. Those enemies launch rockets at them. SCREW them. ‘Kay?
“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
That was my immediate reaction to the listing of Essential Humanitarian Products, as I figured, uh huh, all the weapons the Israelis were looking for when they boarded the Gaza-bound ships.
They need to itemize these “humanitarian products,” but it’ll never happen.
KevinB: “I don’t eat much, but I’m pretty sure I go through 16 pounds of food each month.”
Probably. But if the folks in Gaza can grow flowers to cut, why can’t they grow enough food for their people? AND, how come the Sheiks, with their gazillion$ in profit$ from their oil wells, don’t ensure that their compatriots are housed, fed, and educated?
The Israelis can feed, house, and educate their people under desert conditions (which they immediately figured out how to irrigate), so how come the Palestinians have chronic shortages of food and basic essentials? I suggest it’s because they don’t live in a democracy, they don’t educate their people, and, frankly, they’re quite happy to have over 80% of their population poverty-stricken and illiterate. They’re easier to shove around that way — and Hamas and Hezbollah can continue to dig into the never-ending flow of international resources for “those poor downtrodden Palestinians.”
What a racket.
they don’t have to send *anything at all*. Gaza is a haven for the enemies of Israel. Those enemies launch rockets at them. SCREW them. ‘Kay?
Fine with me, but why send anything at all?
“A doubleminded man is unstable in all his ways” – James 1:8
Hi again BTJ – it’s because they’re morally better in every way than their enemies. Can’t think why you needed to ask that. That Bible quote is completely non sequitur.
From the comments…
“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
A truck load of abortion, or so says the LPC.
===================
Geeze. I was going to ask what aggregates are, but now I’m afraid to. 🙂
Roughly 73 20 ton truckloads per business day is a pretty substantial movement of cargo into such a small area. Even when you factor out the after delivery thievery by Hamas it’s still a lot.
Reminds me of an incident long ago where a ship carrying a food aid cargo of Canadian wheat docked in an Indian port and was discharging straight onto the dock and an empty Russian ship berthed on the other side was being loaded with the wheat at the same time as “temporary storage” while waiting for rail transport to arrive. Needless to say the Russian ship left for parts unknown some time after the Canadian one departed.
Clearly the loser using my name to post some worthless hateful crap is not me. But hey, if that’s what it takes to paint me as an anti-Semite I’ll take that as a compliment. If you can’t take my own words and give a logical argument for why I’m a jew hater…well, I think I’m ok.
Kate, you’ve really outdone yourself this time. Using information from an Israeli Defense Force blog!? What an effort to give as extreme a bias as possible..good on ya! Now if you could only learn how to find reliable information and present a well rounded argument. Anything to support your already formed opinion eh?
Conditions may not be optimal in Gaza but for the inhabitants it’s an improvement over the Cairo/ San’a(Yemen) slums they came from.
batb:
I really think the problem is Islam. It completely denigrates females (the women in Gaza reportedly had an average of five kids each). Barefoot and in the kitchen is a good way to describe Islam’s treatment of women. How can you waste the brain power of half your population, and expect to be as rich as one that uses it?
The only rich Islamic countries are the ones with oil, which is an accident of nature. Egypt, Somalia, Gaza, Chechnya – all without oil, and all poor. And even in the rich ones, the general population was poor; only the favoured few got rich.
No BTJ …. nobody is fooled by you … you’re just an ignorant pain inthe @ss.
“I really think the problem is Islam. It completely denigrates females (the women in Gaza reportedly had an average of five kids each). Barefoot and in the kitchen is a good way to describe Islam’s treatment of women. How can you waste the brain power of half your population, and expect to be as rich as one that uses it?”
I would just clarify your point…it’s the fact that religion is the ruling philosophy period, regardless of what that religion is..and religion relies on faith over reason…which is not how humans went from cart to car.
Western women did not get the opportunities they have from Christianity or any other religion…they got it from reason, from using their own reason and from men using their reason.
“The only rich Islamic countries are the ones with oil, which is an accident of nature. Egypt, Somalia, Gaza, Chechnya – all without oil, and all poor. And even in the rich ones, the general population was poor; only the favoured few got rich.”
I would have to agree for the most part…but I don’t think that Islam is the only reason for the troubles in the ME.
BTJ: “Western women did not get the opportunities they have from Christianity …”
You obviously don’t know your history.
Christianity is the reason women first became educated and many an Abbess ruled over both male/female (separated) monasteries. In Christian homes, in the Middle Ages, many women were educated — to the extent that St. Catherine of Siena (1347 – 1379) and St. Teresa of Avila (1515 – 1582) are now Doctors of the Church.
Being Christian does not preclude reason, and if you don’t know that, then you’ve swallowed the anti-Christian bigotry of the Zeitgeist. Some of the most reasonable, sane, and centred people I know are Christians.
‘Guess you don’t know any of them.
BTJ
“”””but I don’t think that Islam is the only reason for the troubles in the ME.”””””
of course not
look in the mirror, you’ll see part of the reason
it’s called ignorance
Gym- Bing-da-dee-be-bop-boom!!! Rimshot! Yup!
“Christianity is the reason women first became educated and many an Abbess ruled over both male/female (separated) monasteries. In Christian homes, in the Middle Ages, many women were educated — to the extent that St. Catherine of Siena (1347 – 1379) and St. Teresa of Avila (1515 – 1582) are now Doctors of the Church.”
And when would you say women actually started to have opportunities like they have today? I’d say early 1900’s.
“Being Christian does not preclude reason”
No, but relying on Christianity to guide decisions precludes reason. The purest essence in the words of many religions is good and allows one to use reason..I believe. But it’s pretty hard to hear that voice through the rhetoric.
Seriously, BTJ, if you ignore Christianity’s contributions to the Western world, you fail to use reason.
Would you like a secular argument for a commandment? Thou shalt not kill or homicide is illegal. It deprives an individual of life and liberty. It robs the greater community of a productive human being and disrupts communal order. See what I did there? I took a Christian tenet and, using the reason God gave me, put it into a secular context. I couldn’t do that in Islamic or Confucian circles.
Prior to the arrival of Christianity in Korea, woman of certain classes did not have first (or given) names nor were they educated. That changed once Christianity arrived. Would I say Christianity had a positive effect on women’s rights? Yes, I would.
BTJ:
Without faith, how could humanity have created anything?
Did Bill Gates have scientific proof his systems would work before he made it work?
How could he have even started without the faith that he was able to create something that was just an idea? How can you quantify an idea?
How does a human being get from an idea (something that cannot be proven) to something that can be physically proven?
Wait for Obama to articulate it?
“Would you like a secular argument for a commandment? Thou shalt not kill or homicide is illegal.”
If you need a religion to tell you not to kill people you have problems. I didn’t say every single thing about Christianity is irrational, living your life by a religion is irrational, making decisions because you think you are being watched by some ultimate judge (other than yourself) is irrational. I would hope you wouldn’t need a book to tell you that killing people is not right.
” I couldn’t do that in Islamic or Confucian circles.”
I’m sure you could..Islam is based on the same book as Christianity. I’m not familiar with Confucian.
“Prior to the arrival of Christianity in Korea, woman of certain classes did not have first (or given) names nor were they educated. That changed once Christianity arrived. Would I say Christianity had a positive effect on women’s rights? Yes, I would.”
I don’t mean to imply that Christians cannot do rational things, or cannot do good. I mean that religion alone does not give one the means to think rationally, and that rational thinking is what leads to human advancement (except for by chance). Technology is created using reason, not faith.
BTJ:
You have much to learn.
“Without faith, how could humanity have created anything?”
The question is how can humanity create anything WITH faith. How do you create a vaccine for smallpox using ‘faith’…does the bible have some sort of method for how to find a vaccine?
“Did Bill Gates have scientific proof his systems would work before he made it work?”
Well, they didn’t work before he made them work, so how could he have scientific proof? That’s the point…he used reasoning to create what he created, he didn’t use faith.
“How could he have even started without the faith that he was able to create something that was just an idea? How can you quantify an idea?”
Because he’s a rational human being, that’s how we got this far…creating from our ideas…people have been doing it for thousands of years. He observed the great minds, saw what they did from ideas, observed his own great mind and followed his ideas. What do you mean ‘quantify an idea’?
“How does a human being get from an idea (something that cannot be proven) to something that can be physically proven?”
A human conceptualizes and works and tries and fails, and learns, and reasons and conceptualizes and works, tries, fails…and on and on.
BTJ:
Thanks for proving my point.
“Thanks for proving my point.”
Care to expand on that? How did I prove your point? Or is that all you had to say? In which case, I get it…sometimes less says more.
BTJ:
You miss the point – Bill Gates and Paul Allen had to have faith. I’ve worked in software development, and when a problem is scoped out, you might think you can make it work, but you need the faith that you can to struggle on through the inevitable problems. It’s not easy to persevere without it.
I plan to start a new company later this year. I think it might be a success, but it might not. Without the faith that it will succeed, I wouldn’t even try. It’s not in your head; it’s in your gut. Yes, reason solves problems but faith moves mountains. You need both.
“You miss the point – Bill Gates and Paul Allen had to have faith. I’ve worked in software development, and when a problem is scoped out, you might think you can make it work, but you need the faith that you can to struggle on through the inevitable problems. It’s not easy to persevere without it.”
What’s the difference between the definition of faith that you’re using and the definition of confidence, perseverance, driven, self-motivation..you need faith in yourself.
BTJ:
When you post here, you use what you perceive your power of persuasion to prove a point.
How else do you believe you can prove something unless you have faith you can prove it?
It’s something that’s inherent in every human being.
Without faith in our abilities to accomplish something, what would be the alternative? Waiting for somebody to run your life?
You have proven you have faith in your ability to persuade.
Whether or not you have been successful with it is an entirely different matter.
“How else do you believe you can prove something unless you have faith you can prove it?”
You believe it because you thought of it, you created it using reason…that’s what makes humans so special…we perceive, we take in information with our senses, recognize patterns, make connections to previous experiences, and then we conceptualize…create ideas. Making that reality is a matter of ongoing work and learning (reasoning). Either you follow your reasoning, or you quit and become a slave to someone else.
“Without faith in our abilities to accomplish something, what would be the alternative? Waiting for somebody to run your life?”
Exactly, if Bill Gates didn’t follow his ideas he’d be working for someone else, taking direction…that’s all he needed, there’s two choices, pick one (only other thing needed was the right circumstances).
“…relying on Christianity to guide decisions precludes reason. The purest essence in the words of many religions is good and allows one to use reason..I believe. But it’s pretty hard to hear that voice through the rhetoric.”
Societies steeped in Christianity have see the widespread popularity of reason beyond ony other societies. Post-christian societies have so far gone quickly in the direction of postmodernism, moving away from reason.
“Societies steeped in Christianity have see the widespread popularity of reason beyond ony other societies. Post-christian societies have so far gone quickly in the direction of postmodernism, moving away from reason.”
Huh? Look to the individual to decide…look at all the great minds, all the people who really made advances…you’ll find most are atheists.
Did Einstein rely on Christianity? No.
Does Bill Gates rely on Christianity? Nope..atheist.
Does Stephen Hawkings rely on Christianity? No..atheist
And the list goes on…
My goodness is this the same list the R.O.C. must send to the deprived victimized province immediately east of the Ontario border? Cheers;
What a bunch of a$$holes!
What kind of monster would send medicine?
(joking)
OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?
“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
A truck load of abortion, or so says the LPC.
Essential Humanitarian Products = Ammonium Nitrate & diesel fuel.
“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
– iron bars, chains and knives (to attack Israeli soldiers)
– videocams (to make fake-victim videos to provide Reuters, Associated Press and other enablers/accomplices)
– “back-stage” passes to the United Nations
Actually anything the left can provide the ennemies of Western Civilization with but that they do not want on a list because they know it is either illegal, immoral or hypocritical.
I’d be interested in seeing a comparable list of exports from Gaza. If any.
and why would anyone want a non-salt water swimming pool?
The “only democracy in the ME” (excluding Iraq) right on schedule. LOL
The “only democracy in the ME” (excluding Iraq) right on schedule. LOL
What? No pork rinds?
We showed those big-nosed kikes, eh?
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig, festem Schritt.
Kam’raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschier’n im Geist in unser’n Reihen mit.
Die Straße frei den braunen Batallionen.
Die Straße frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann!
Es schau’n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen.
Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an!
Zum letzten Mal wird schon Appell geblasen!
Zum Kampfe steh’n wir alle schon bereit!
Bald flattern Hitlerfahnen über alle Straßen.
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit!
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!
SA marschiert mit ruhig-festem Schritt.
Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen,
Marschieren im Geist in unseren Reihen mit.
Marc:
Considering that the GDP per head is only $3,100, they aren’t exporting much. According to Wikipedia, the main exports are citrus and cut flowers.
But I’d like to know what the time frame for that shipping list was. 24 million pounds of supplies sounds like a lot, but with 1.5 million people, that’s only 16 pounds per person, and some of it wasn’t food. I don’t eat much, but I’m pretty sure I go through 16 pounds of food each month.
Inconvenient questions…
9 truckloads of spices and 1 truckload of cement? Surely it’s the other way around. The 12 truckloads of “aggregates” could be 40,000 AK-47s and plenty of ammo for all of them.
KevinB, the link shows this as shipments from June 6-12.
16 lbs a week, about 8 quarts of wheat/week…minus other commodities. Livin’ high off the hog, yessir…
I like how, in a detailed list, the second largest item has no detail, just a meaningless heading.
BTJ, I mean THL, sorry about that – they don’t have to send *anything at all*. Gaza is a haven for the enemies of Israel. Those enemies launch rockets at them. SCREW them. ‘Kay?
“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
That was my immediate reaction to the listing of Essential Humanitarian Products, as I figured, uh huh, all the weapons the Israelis were looking for when they boarded the Gaza-bound ships.
They need to itemize these “humanitarian products,” but it’ll never happen.
KevinB: “I don’t eat much, but I’m pretty sure I go through 16 pounds of food each month.”
Probably. But if the folks in Gaza can grow flowers to cut, why can’t they grow enough food for their people? AND, how come the Sheiks, with their gazillion$ in profit$ from their oil wells, don’t ensure that their compatriots are housed, fed, and educated?
The Israelis can feed, house, and educate their people under desert conditions (which they immediately figured out how to irrigate), so how come the Palestinians have chronic shortages of food and basic essentials? I suggest it’s because they don’t live in a democracy, they don’t educate their people, and, frankly, they’re quite happy to have over 80% of their population poverty-stricken and illiterate. They’re easier to shove around that way — and Hamas and Hezbollah can continue to dig into the never-ending flow of international resources for “those poor downtrodden Palestinians.”
What a racket.
they don’t have to send *anything at all*. Gaza is a haven for the enemies of Israel. Those enemies launch rockets at them. SCREW them. ‘Kay?
Fine with me, but why send anything at all?
“A doubleminded man is unstable in all his ways” – James 1:8
Hi again BTJ – it’s because they’re morally better in every way than their enemies. Can’t think why you needed to ask that. That Bible quote is completely non sequitur.
From the comments…
“OK, so what’s Essential Humanitarian Products?”
A truck load of abortion, or so says the LPC.
===================
Geeze. I was going to ask what aggregates are, but now I’m afraid to. 🙂
Roughly 73 20 ton truckloads per business day is a pretty substantial movement of cargo into such a small area. Even when you factor out the after delivery thievery by Hamas it’s still a lot.
Reminds me of an incident long ago where a ship carrying a food aid cargo of Canadian wheat docked in an Indian port and was discharging straight onto the dock and an empty Russian ship berthed on the other side was being loaded with the wheat at the same time as “temporary storage” while waiting for rail transport to arrive. Needless to say the Russian ship left for parts unknown some time after the Canadian one departed.
Clearly the loser using my name to post some worthless hateful crap is not me. But hey, if that’s what it takes to paint me as an anti-Semite I’ll take that as a compliment. If you can’t take my own words and give a logical argument for why I’m a jew hater…well, I think I’m ok.
Kate, you’ve really outdone yourself this time. Using information from an Israeli Defense Force blog!? What an effort to give as extreme a bias as possible..good on ya! Now if you could only learn how to find reliable information and present a well rounded argument. Anything to support your already formed opinion eh?
Conditions may not be optimal in Gaza but for the inhabitants it’s an improvement over the Cairo/ San’a(Yemen) slums they came from.
batb:
I really think the problem is Islam. It completely denigrates females (the women in Gaza reportedly had an average of five kids each). Barefoot and in the kitchen is a good way to describe Islam’s treatment of women. How can you waste the brain power of half your population, and expect to be as rich as one that uses it?
The only rich Islamic countries are the ones with oil, which is an accident of nature. Egypt, Somalia, Gaza, Chechnya – all without oil, and all poor. And even in the rich ones, the general population was poor; only the favoured few got rich.
No BTJ …. nobody is fooled by you … you’re just an ignorant pain inthe @ss.
“I really think the problem is Islam. It completely denigrates females (the women in Gaza reportedly had an average of five kids each). Barefoot and in the kitchen is a good way to describe Islam’s treatment of women. How can you waste the brain power of half your population, and expect to be as rich as one that uses it?”
I would just clarify your point…it’s the fact that religion is the ruling philosophy period, regardless of what that religion is..and religion relies on faith over reason…which is not how humans went from cart to car.
Western women did not get the opportunities they have from Christianity or any other religion…they got it from reason, from using their own reason and from men using their reason.
“The only rich Islamic countries are the ones with oil, which is an accident of nature. Egypt, Somalia, Gaza, Chechnya – all without oil, and all poor. And even in the rich ones, the general population was poor; only the favoured few got rich.”
I would have to agree for the most part…but I don’t think that Islam is the only reason for the troubles in the ME.
BTJ: “Western women did not get the opportunities they have from Christianity …”
You obviously don’t know your history.
Christianity is the reason women first became educated and many an Abbess ruled over both male/female (separated) monasteries. In Christian homes, in the Middle Ages, many women were educated — to the extent that St. Catherine of Siena (1347 – 1379) and St. Teresa of Avila (1515 – 1582) are now Doctors of the Church.
Being Christian does not preclude reason, and if you don’t know that, then you’ve swallowed the anti-Christian bigotry of the Zeitgeist. Some of the most reasonable, sane, and centred people I know are Christians.
‘Guess you don’t know any of them.
BTJ
“”””but I don’t think that Islam is the only reason for the troubles in the ME.”””””
of course not
look in the mirror, you’ll see part of the reason
it’s called ignorance
Gym- Bing-da-dee-be-bop-boom!!! Rimshot! Yup!
“Christianity is the reason women first became educated and many an Abbess ruled over both male/female (separated) monasteries. In Christian homes, in the Middle Ages, many women were educated — to the extent that St. Catherine of Siena (1347 – 1379) and St. Teresa of Avila (1515 – 1582) are now Doctors of the Church.”
And when would you say women actually started to have opportunities like they have today? I’d say early 1900’s.
“Being Christian does not preclude reason”
No, but relying on Christianity to guide decisions precludes reason. The purest essence in the words of many religions is good and allows one to use reason..I believe. But it’s pretty hard to hear that voice through the rhetoric.
Seriously, BTJ, if you ignore Christianity’s contributions to the Western world, you fail to use reason.
Would you like a secular argument for a commandment? Thou shalt not kill or homicide is illegal. It deprives an individual of life and liberty. It robs the greater community of a productive human being and disrupts communal order. See what I did there? I took a Christian tenet and, using the reason God gave me, put it into a secular context. I couldn’t do that in Islamic or Confucian circles.
Prior to the arrival of Christianity in Korea, woman of certain classes did not have first (or given) names nor were they educated. That changed once Christianity arrived. Would I say Christianity had a positive effect on women’s rights? Yes, I would.
BTJ:
Without faith, how could humanity have created anything?
Did Bill Gates have scientific proof his systems would work before he made it work?
How could he have even started without the faith that he was able to create something that was just an idea? How can you quantify an idea?
How does a human being get from an idea (something that cannot be proven) to something that can be physically proven?
Wait for Obama to articulate it?
“Would you like a secular argument for a commandment? Thou shalt not kill or homicide is illegal.”
If you need a religion to tell you not to kill people you have problems. I didn’t say every single thing about Christianity is irrational, living your life by a religion is irrational, making decisions because you think you are being watched by some ultimate judge (other than yourself) is irrational. I would hope you wouldn’t need a book to tell you that killing people is not right.
” I couldn’t do that in Islamic or Confucian circles.”
I’m sure you could..Islam is based on the same book as Christianity. I’m not familiar with Confucian.
“Prior to the arrival of Christianity in Korea, woman of certain classes did not have first (or given) names nor were they educated. That changed once Christianity arrived. Would I say Christianity had a positive effect on women’s rights? Yes, I would.”
I don’t mean to imply that Christians cannot do rational things, or cannot do good. I mean that religion alone does not give one the means to think rationally, and that rational thinking is what leads to human advancement (except for by chance). Technology is created using reason, not faith.
BTJ:
You have much to learn.
“Without faith, how could humanity have created anything?”
The question is how can humanity create anything WITH faith. How do you create a vaccine for smallpox using ‘faith’…does the bible have some sort of method for how to find a vaccine?
“Did Bill Gates have scientific proof his systems would work before he made it work?”
Well, they didn’t work before he made them work, so how could he have scientific proof? That’s the point…he used reasoning to create what he created, he didn’t use faith.
“How could he have even started without the faith that he was able to create something that was just an idea? How can you quantify an idea?”
Because he’s a rational human being, that’s how we got this far…creating from our ideas…people have been doing it for thousands of years. He observed the great minds, saw what they did from ideas, observed his own great mind and followed his ideas. What do you mean ‘quantify an idea’?
“How does a human being get from an idea (something that cannot be proven) to something that can be physically proven?”
A human conceptualizes and works and tries and fails, and learns, and reasons and conceptualizes and works, tries, fails…and on and on.
BTJ:
Thanks for proving my point.
“Thanks for proving my point.”
Care to expand on that? How did I prove your point? Or is that all you had to say? In which case, I get it…sometimes less says more.
BTJ:
You miss the point – Bill Gates and Paul Allen had to have faith. I’ve worked in software development, and when a problem is scoped out, you might think you can make it work, but you need the faith that you can to struggle on through the inevitable problems. It’s not easy to persevere without it.
I plan to start a new company later this year. I think it might be a success, but it might not. Without the faith that it will succeed, I wouldn’t even try. It’s not in your head; it’s in your gut. Yes, reason solves problems but faith moves mountains. You need both.
“You miss the point – Bill Gates and Paul Allen had to have faith. I’ve worked in software development, and when a problem is scoped out, you might think you can make it work, but you need the faith that you can to struggle on through the inevitable problems. It’s not easy to persevere without it.”
What’s the difference between the definition of faith that you’re using and the definition of confidence, perseverance, driven, self-motivation..you need faith in yourself.
BTJ:
When you post here, you use what you perceive your power of persuasion to prove a point.
How else do you believe you can prove something unless you have faith you can prove it?
It’s something that’s inherent in every human being.
Without faith in our abilities to accomplish something, what would be the alternative? Waiting for somebody to run your life?
You have proven you have faith in your ability to persuade.
Whether or not you have been successful with it is an entirely different matter.
“How else do you believe you can prove something unless you have faith you can prove it?”
You believe it because you thought of it, you created it using reason…that’s what makes humans so special…we perceive, we take in information with our senses, recognize patterns, make connections to previous experiences, and then we conceptualize…create ideas. Making that reality is a matter of ongoing work and learning (reasoning). Either you follow your reasoning, or you quit and become a slave to someone else.
“Without faith in our abilities to accomplish something, what would be the alternative? Waiting for somebody to run your life?”
Exactly, if Bill Gates didn’t follow his ideas he’d be working for someone else, taking direction…that’s all he needed, there’s two choices, pick one (only other thing needed was the right circumstances).
BTJ, pick up a book and read it. Seriously.
Just thought maybe you guys could do with reading this article:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/
I doubt it’ll do any of your much good, but worth a shot anyway. Good luck to you.
I got to have faith.
“…relying on Christianity to guide decisions precludes reason. The purest essence in the words of many religions is good and allows one to use reason..I believe. But it’s pretty hard to hear that voice through the rhetoric.”
Societies steeped in Christianity have see the widespread popularity of reason beyond ony other societies. Post-christian societies have so far gone quickly in the direction of postmodernism, moving away from reason.
“Societies steeped in Christianity have see the widespread popularity of reason beyond ony other societies. Post-christian societies have so far gone quickly in the direction of postmodernism, moving away from reason.”
Huh? Look to the individual to decide…look at all the great minds, all the people who really made advances…you’ll find most are atheists.
Did Einstein rely on Christianity? No.
Does Bill Gates rely on Christianity? Nope..atheist.
Does Stephen Hawkings rely on Christianity? No..atheist
And the list goes on…
My God!
We actually feed them that much????