If this keeps up, the graves they dig in may end up their own;
Allix was required by law to hire an archeology team last year — to dig up the family property — before she was allowed to build a house just outside of Parksville. Bones and aboriginal artifacts were found, but her son said not much has been done with that discovery.
“It’s just a box full of artifacts — that aren’t even on display,” said Tim Allix. “If the B.C. government had to pay $35,000 for this, they wouldn’t do it. They’re saying ‘Ah, let’s just pass this on to the landowner.'”
Under the province’s Heritage Conservation Act, landowners whose property has been designated a heritage site cannot build until archeologists have done an assessment and removed any First Nations artifacts or human remains — at the landowner’s expense.
I’m become relatively immune to outrage over public policy infringements of private property – the sheer volume of abuse makes rage unsustainable. What I can’t wrap my head around is the behavior of free citizens who apparently believe they can exploit government-mandated property abuse without eventual risk to their personal safety.
Many B.C. residents don’t know their land has been designated, because there is no system in place to inform them. The province keeps the database of sites that are reported to them, by First Nations and other interested parties, but that information is not shown on land title documents.
There are now 38,000 registered sites with some 2,000 new ones added every year. The minister responsible, Kevin Krueger, acknowledged that the lack of disclosure has been a long-standing problem.
Canadians are a numbingly tolerant lot, but everyone has their breaking point. If my job description included digging around in someone else’s dirt, I’d be certain to have a freely-offered invitation in hand before setting foot on their property – “Heritage Conservation Act” be damned.
h/t Kevin B
SO the perfect career for young aboriginals would be Archeology.
I am so sick and tired of the consideration given to and influence of native indians out of all proportion to their population and contribution to Canadian society.
Sure they were here before the white man. So the f*ck what? History is replete with displaced and conquered tribal societies by more advanced civilizations. Modern day Canadian indians are lucky they have the benefit of a limp wristed, self loathing, PC society to pander to their every self serving want.
I’m f*cking sick of it.
Here we have landowners of 40 years, with that land at some point in time, without their knowledge, consent or input, being declared a “heritage” site. This leads to a $35K bill for make work for a bunch of otherwise unemployable archeologists.
I love how in this instance, a local archeologist “heard” about their building plans, and sent them a letter advising them of their obligations. Gee, wonder how he “heard” about this — no doubt this fellow trolls city hall building permit applications. Mind your own f*cking business — I wouldn’t mind if a few unfriendlies paid a visit to this nosy prick.
Boy, this story really touched a nerve with me this morning..
As I said in a thread yesterday, the government only excels at destroying personal wealth. Sure, a bunch of high-falutin’ archeology grads got a bit of work for which they were able to bill exorbitant rates.
Heaven forbid these people be able to put that $35,000 towards, you know, the house they want to build. Heaven forbid they employ people that actually provide wanted goods and services to society:
– drafters, architects
– contractors
– electricians
– plumbers
– landscapers
– etc. etc. etc.
….
Wheres my valium?
Property rights? In Canada. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha …
Wretch!!
The real owner of property in Canada is the government. We rent the property from the government. The rent is called property tax. The B.C. government should be paying the cost.
Being a self reliant type I would just get the building permit, rent the backhoe and dig the foundation out myself. Bones? Nope, didn’t see any. Heritage site? No one told me it was.
Let’s see here, 38,000 sites and growing, multiply by $35,000 equals $1,330,000,000 (yes I double checked the number of zeroes, it is 1.33 Billion dollars. That is a lot of employment for all those archaelogy students who would otherwise be flipping burgers. And the archaelogists get to decide whether the site should be explored at $80 per hour with lunch provided? The system is ripe for exploitation.
If the aboriginal community is so enamoured of their ancestors remains and personal effects, why don’t they pay for the archaelogists or do the digging themselves?
Flashbacks to my brief stint at grad school.
North American Archaeologists are Anthropologists (such as that is), and Anthropologists are the sort of people who consider individual property rights as, like, fascism, man.
It is the general policy of academic Archaeologists never to seek out new sites; when any individual or company (say, a “treasure hunting” enterprise looking for wrecks off the Florida coast) hires a person with a grad degree in Archaeology to conduct a survey or an excavation (as is required by law in most countries), that individual will be blacklisted for the rest of his career. (This was explained to us in exactly those words.)
Meanwhile, the Archaeology “community” leaves sites to rot and spends it’s time writing unreadable papers and schmoozing at conferences and bitching about how it doesn’t get enough repect.
And yeah, it’s all about the Natives. In Australia, it’s all about the Aboriginals. Oh, I could tell stories…
I know of two instances where the sunken remains of possible pit houses were graded over to avoid this nonsense.It was done due to the local tribe creating a ruckus over plans to “encroach” on a sunken trench the elders swore was the site of ancient homes .it was actually the villages back filled 1950s garbage trench.
There is the case in Vancouver where a local theatre,sited on the remains of the Eaburn/Marpole midden were taxed at the full municipal commercial rate for almost 15 years after being secretly put on the list.this despite the fact that this gave the land no commercial value and resale was impossible.
That midden by the way has given clues to use by stone working groups predating the current “First Nation”
Having several friends in the development business here on the West coast it is interesting to hear their take. Conversations about this subject in the past have revealed one rule they all follow, dig the first holes yourself. The stupid simple servant types just don’t get the fact that their policies have probably destroyed more good geological sites than have ever been saved by it.
Al_in_Ottawa, I had to forego a potential career in Archaeology/Ancient History precisely because of that. I believe that it’s vitally important to explore and retain as much archaeological evidence of human history – and especially prehistory – as possible. But I don’t believe that should trump private property ownership.
When I pointed out that instead of seeking government power to declare bloody everything a heritage site, academics should look into setting up privately funded non-profit organizations that could just offer to buy the important stuff from the existing owners and then maintain it themselves, it was promptly made clear that I had no future in the field.
It should scare you that there always will be a cop happy to arrest someone who is stuck with a $35,000 bill from the government for non-payment (or for smoking in a truck, or for attempting to return a medal to the Saudi embassy). The same kind who guarded Auschwitz.
At least in the Soviet Union everyone knew the system was corrupt. Over here it’s different, about half thinks that the system is democratic.
What’s the problem here? I thought the “natives” all ready owned 110% of Before Common Sense land.
This is why so much land is posted, there are groups out there that wander through private land looking for protected species, salting sites with artifacts, etc..
There was a time when you didn’t think twice about hiking through somebody’s woods, and they didn’t think twice about it either, as long as you didn’t make trouble.
If they can’t remember where they buried their bodies, they should pay for the search party themselves.
White people avoid this problem by using head stones with information nicely carved on them.
I have never met anyone who gives a crap about old Indian bones. I also rarely hear anyone say the word Indian without a preceding adjective that starts with F and ends with G.
Canadians are idiots for putting up with this crap.
I used to do this. I was a student archaeologist here in Dumbtario, I was on a survey in the Beaver Valley (Blue Mountain) and in Napanee.
We did not go on to farms uninvited. Because farmers have big f-ing dogs sometimes, and because its friggin’ rude.
Found a site too. It was a good summer job.
There’s a reason this is occurring in BC and not Saskatchewan or Newfoundland. 🙂
The Crown is the own who owns all land and property in Canada. Canadian subjects have only temporary yet transferable rights to real estate which should never be confused with allodial title.
By contrast, in the USA when you buy the land you get an actual title to that land. Technically, American citizen-sovereign land owners are titled nobles.
Abe: “Canadians are idiots”… Amen!
As the owner of a business that has spent over $200,000 on these archeological digs, I can attest to the absolute ridiculousness of the entire process. We seriously considered getting a backhoe out to dig the areas up and feign ignorance about it; however, the government has the ability to fine you an obscene amount of money, throw you in jail and then charge you the cost of putting the land back in its ‘original’ state.
The best artifact they ever found out here in their digs? A small rock the size of your fingernail which they claimed was almost a billion years old. Big whoppee-de-doo! Aren’t all rocks almost 4 billion years old from when the earth was formed. Biggest scam job currently going on that nobody really hears about.
I don’t have a problem with safe-guarding artifacts. I have a problem with idiocy. Remove these items of great cultural import or lose them to antiquity (or John Deere).
*
“‘It’s just a box full of artifacts — that aren’t
even on display,’ said Tim Allix.”
hey paleface, stfu… we got a sacred whale funeral
goin’ on here.
*
In NORMAL country whatever you find on your land is yours. Be it meteorite or ancestral bones. You find something cool, you sell it for big $$ if anyone is willing to pay.
How Canadians never revolted over having their property rights stomped over is beyond me. Different blood must be flowing in my body.
“I’m become relatively immune to outrage over public policy infringements of private property – the sheer volume of abuse makes rage unsustainable. What I can’t wrap my head around is the behavior of free citizens who apparently believe they can exploit government-mandated property abuse without eventual risk to their personal safety.”
Someone had the same clarity some decades previous:
“Any government big enough to give you anything you want is also big enough to take everything you own” – B Goldwater
Wonder what would happen to this guy?
http://archaeology.about.com/od/kennewickman/a/introduction.htm
I was told a long time ago that if you find ANYTHING that says injun on your land throw it as far away as possible.And when you are hiring someone to dig make sure they understand the same.
I guess it is true that the first word learned by First Nation infants is “Compensation”. In Sask, they have this down to a fine art!
I don’t know of any other conquered group of people that has been given so much power. Why become a self-sufficient and financially independent nation, when you can perpetually live off the guilt and stupidity of the white man.
P.S. The same can be said of the French in Quebec.
2000 sites added each year. I wonder what criteria is used to designate each site?
Oh that’s right … Perline heard Jacob One-arrow tell Johnny Shot-both-sides that his great grandpa told him that his great grandmother caught an eagle feather by the old fir tree next to Sally and Andrew Smith’s new house.
The reason they don’t publicize the sites is because it’s anthropologically impossible to designate that many sites a year without using the most loose, unscientific, “progressive guano” as justification.
I don’t know who’s more stupid … the tapeworms who prey on the productive … or the productive class who keep willingly bending over.
Property Rights…another thing that Harper had in his campaign literature two elections ago that has disappeared from view.
Same thing from the provincial Conservatives in Ontario – silence on property rights.
Hmmmmmm…..wonder why? Could it be that giving Canadians effective property rights would eliminate the raison d’etre of about 1/4 of our government employees at the stroke of a pen?
How would one give property rights to Canadians and still keep the Queen as Head of State?
I’m not being an ass about this, but I don’t think there’s a practical solution without Canada becoming a republic. Is there?
SDH – How does the Queen being Head of State create a problem with a constitutional inclusion of property rights?
I think the problem lies more with certain groups and the provinces.
Sure there is SDH.
Alberta becoming a republic works just fine for me.
As much as I enjoy undeserved praise and adoration, I fear Kate mistyped, as I did not send her a link to this story. Credit needs to be directed to someone else. :{
I was working with some heavy equipment operators a few years ago on Vancouver Island who had recently finished a job near Comox (that’s as close as I will get). They discovered a native burial site and didn’t even report it to their foreman for fear of shutting the job down. One truck driver was so brazen as to keep a discovered skull in his cab and use it as an ash tray for a month! Disrespectful and gross perhaps but not stupid.
So noted, KevnB. It was a different Kevin B who sent the link.
Built a house near Regina in the late 70s. Uncovered bones when preping for weeping tile. A few shovels of dirt, there, now we can put in the gradebeam for the Garage.Boss and homeowner never knew a thing.
I have often wondered, what would of happened if the Europeans never made it to the New World, but the Chinese did, for whatever reason. What would of transpired between the Asians and the aboriginals? There would be a technological and cultural difference of some 5,000 plus years. The Chinese under various dynasties had mass killings numbering into the tens of millions of their own kind, wouldn’t be much of a reach to surmise that they would do the same here to non- chinese. Inter racial breeding would probably see the end of the aboriginal race. As for diseases, not sure what would of happened, probably the same as with the Europeans. It is an interesting thought tho, I wonder if there would be land claim settlements today.
I have never met anyone who gives a crap about old Indian bones
What, haven’t you watched Poltergeist?! It’s a true story, I’m serial!
Timely topic- yesterday I was watching a ‘crew’ dig up my neighbours yard looking for artifacts.
It looked like all the elements for a game of Whack-a-Mole were in place.
Grant, the Queen (Crown) owns all the land in Canada. When you buy property in Canada you buy land tenure, not allodial title.
Therefore, with out removing the head of state, or having bits of the country secede from the Dominion, (Indiana Homez) I’m not sure there’s a practical solution to it.
KPD the US has it’s own problems when it comes to property rights.
Sorry to inject some humour again…
Dear Sir:
Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labeled “211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post. Hominid skull.” We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents “conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Charleston County two million years ago.” Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, of the variety one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be the “Malibu Barbie”. It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel that there are a number of physical attributes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to it’s modern origin:
1. The material is molded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilized bone.
2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimeters, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids.
3. The dentition pattern evident on the “skull” is more consistent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the “ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams” you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time. This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that:
A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on.
[…]
More at http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/smithsonian.asp
running a pipeline in southern alberta, bones and artifacts including a tomahawk came over the top. we just backed it up covered it back and run on the other side of the ROW.
Rest in peace Chief.He didnt need to be dug up twice and stuck in a museum.
I really do feel awful about all the potentially significant sites which will be bulldozed under and destroyed because of these greedy, counterproductive laws and regulations.
PiperPaul – that rings a bell. It’s a genuine response from the Smithsonian to a serial-letter-writing nut, isn’t it?
“Canadians are a numbingly tolerant lot”
Ain’t that the truth. We couldn’t organize a Tea Party if our lives depended on it. I’ve been wondering about the roots of our lethargy are. We didn’t have an historical act of rebellion that gave birth to anything remotely resembling the original Tea Party that I know of. Maybe we need to create one, now!
“Alberta becoming a republic works just fine for me.”
Make that Saskatchewan and Alberta.
Nah, Black Mamba, it’s just an urban legend-ish commentary on how silly things can get. No such letter was written and no such reply was sent.
PiperPaul, would be the commonly known Barbiquitis Malibutite? I found one of those in my garden once, took a long time to decompose 🙂
SDH- I think you are reading something into the ‘Queen and crown land’ that just isn’t there.
Please have a look at the history behind various attempts to incorporate property rights into our constitution.
http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/BP/bp268-e.htm
Should be called the Archaeologist Full Employment Act. It is well known that you are either a “First Nations Archaeologist-not necessarily Indian” or a “Land owner Archaologist”. If you work for one side, you never work for the other. One of the problems is that the Natives insist that the data on sites is kept secret in the data base. Ostensibly to avoid relique seekers. But this is BS. Sounds more to me like GOTCHA.
We bought a new home in 1995 on a small acreage. The title practically had to be delivered in a wheelbarrow because it was part of an original railroad land grant dating back to the 1870’s. Sort of snazzy to have a complete record of ownership through the years. The title begins just 30 years after the territory became a state.
You folks need to take back your country. Get involved in local politics. Volunteer for campaign work. It’s sometimes annoying because we already are busy with life but thinking individuals must make themselves heard, quickly.
Mr. SDH: when you say “I’m not being an ass about this”, I fear you’re jumping to conclusions. Reflect a little further, would you, and bear in mind the state of property rights in such republics as China and Cuba as compared to such monarchies as Sweden and the Netherlands. And consider that many people would take the view that, while to be a monomaniac with a hobby horse is merely a manifestation of human frailty, to insist publicly that enough obsessive riding of the hobby horse will cure every imaginable ill makes you an ass.