71 Replies to “Fringe Movement”

  2. Buncha ragin’ White racists! … and, uh, Hispanic racists, uhmm… black racists, “other” racists…
    …
    But yeah, buncha RACISTS!!!

  3. It would be interesting to see the same demographics of the democrats and the repubs compared to all US Adults. Might explain a lot of what’s going on.

  4. The lamestream media has tried to portray tea party supporters as somehow un-American, divorced from American ideals. This profile, if accurate, puts the lie to those assertions. But that won’t stop the MSM’s attempt to discredit the tea party anymore than Climategate and all its spin-off reveleations have deterred those knobs from continued promotion of man-made global warming.

  5. Did any of you Boomer bashers out there notice that the Boomers are over-represented in the Tea Party compared to their demographic?

  7. Oz- could you explain your comment that ‘boomers’ are over-represented? I don’t see that data.
    glasnost- your comment is a nice summary.
    Even CNN is having to admit the factual truth; that the Tea Party represents mainstream Americans and is not a political partisan perspective.
    Now what will the Obama Gang do to smear mainstream Americans? Pelosi, Obama, Reid, have all claimed that dissent is un-American and have smeared the Tea Party which is simply -dissent and a call for a return to the basic values of the American Constitution.

  8. Oz- could you explain your comment that ‘boomers’ are over-represented? I don’t see that data.
    ~ET
    The data is on lines 3&4 of the poll.

  9. Oz – surely you don’t mean
    50 to 64 years…29/27
    65 plus….21/20.
    Those numbers are statistically insignificant. All poll statistics come with a plus or minus 3 validity.
    The only statistic of any valid disparity between the Tea Parties and the US population is the non-hispanic black membership of 6/11. That shows that the Tea Parties have approximately half the black membership as in the overall US population. The rest of the attributes of Tea Parties and US population are statistically similar.

  10. From the original source link:
    “For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.”
    In other words any delta of

  11. almost meaningless
    more accurate would be a poll of % of population support for T parties, and the demographic break down of such

  13. I’d like to see a similar table showing mainstream America and the support for Obama people, using the same attributes as the above chart.
    After all, this data is showing that the Tea Parties are not made up of ‘radical right extremists’ but mainstream America.
    However, I postulate that the Obama Gang are ‘radical left extremists’, so, I’d like to see that comparative chart.

  14. Oz, I would be very surprised if the boomers and beyond do not make up about 50% of the voting age population.

  15. OK that is interesting but what would be even more interesting would be the percentage of Americans who support the Tea Party movement to bring to fruition the Tea Party’s goals. I truly want to believe that this is a mass movement but I haven’t seen enough data to show me that this is any more than a tempest in a tea pot.

  17. The stat that stands out for me is the average of 47% adult employed full time. Isn’t that a losing proposition in the long run? I don’t know the stats in Canada and I don’t want to.

  18. On the other hand, some are saying that Tea Party movement is just a warm, mellow breeze just before the tsunami will hit.

  19. There is only one conclusion you can come to by comparing the Tea Party with the US. The US is a fringe, right wing, racist country. Al Sharpton was right all along

  20. But, but – Keith Olberman and Chris Mathews have been calling it ‘just a fringe movement’.
    One thing for sure, they are a bowel movement. Got to be the world’s worst media duo – ever!!

  21. I am surprised that the Black number is as high as it is. 92% of Blacks vote Democrat.
    55% of them support the Tea Party – and that is with the first most fantastic Black President in office.

  22. Joe – you are losing me. Isn’t support for the Tea Party logically similar to supporting the fruition of its goals?
    Could you provide your data base to support your conclusion that it’s a ‘tempest in a tea pot’?

  23. Oz – What on Earth are you talking about? The age breakdown of tea party supporters virtually mirrors that of the entire population.
    At a glance (i.e. without knowing the sample size and actually testing for significance), the only variances that would appear to be significant are those in the race section (white slightly over-represented, blacks slightly under-represented), but even those variances are quite small.

  24. kathy – what is Dr. Dawg’s argument? I know I ought to read it myself but I find his obfuscation and smog of diversionary sparks beyond reason…
    My question to him would be: IF joining the Tea Party movement is by individual choice, THEN, who is behaving as a racist in not joining?
    After all, to declare that because black membership in the TP is not equal to the population demographics, THEN the Tea Parties are ‘racist’ – is a logical fallalcy. Called ‘affirming the consequent’ in case anyone is interested in the name of that fallacy.

  25. Ward, I think you’re mistaken in your reading of the poll. 6% of Tea Party supporters are “Black” but only 28% of Americans are “supporters” of the Tea Party.
    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/90613-poll-28-of-americans-support-tea-party
    There is the break down of gender, income, and political affiliation (you’re welcome, Kate). Those numbers show gender, political, and income disparity. Why would you leave those out?
    For the record, I’m not really pro or anti Tea Party. Generally, outrage is an easy way to get people involved in the process but rarely leads to anything productive.

  26. Ward – you’re kind of mangling the math. You can’t conclude that 55% of Blacks support the Tea Party Movement, just that 6% of Tea Party supporters are black.
    I checked the actual Gallup page (http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx#1) and only 28% of those surveyed identified themselves as TPS, and 6% of those were “non-Hispanic black”.
    That means, of the 1033 people surveyed, 114 were black, and 17 identified as TPS.
    This means that about 14% of blacks support the TPM, while 86% do not – a ratio similar to racial voting preferences.

  27. Ward – you’re kind of mangling the math. You can’t conclude that 55% of Blacks support the Tea Party Movement, just that 6% of Tea Party supporters are black.
    I checked the actual Gallup page (http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx#1) and only 28% of those surveyed identified themselves as TPS, and 6% of those were “non-Hispanic black”.
    That means, of the 1033 people surveyed, 114 were black, and 17 identified as TPS.
    This means that about 14% of blacks support the TPM, while 86% do not – a ratio similar to racial voting preferences.

  28. Ward – what is your data base for only 28% support the Tea Party?
    Rasmussen, March 28, 2010, points out:
    “The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 52% of U.S. voters believe the average member of the Tea Party movement has a better understanding of the issues facing America today than the average member of Congress. Only 30% believe that those in Congress have a better understanding of the key issues facing the nation.
    When it comes to those issues, 47% think that their own political views are closer to those of the average Tea Party member than to the views of the average member of Congress. On this point, 26% feel closer to Congress.
    Finally, 46% of voters say that the average Tea Party member is more ethical than the average member of Congress. Twenty-seven percent (27%) say that the average member of Congress is more ethical.”
    So, where does your 28% come from? Remember, being in support of, and an actual participant in, are different – whether it’s in the Republican, Democratic Parties or the Tea Party Movement. The registered Democrats in the 169 million registered electorate is 42.6%, while that of the GOP is 33%. BUT, these individuals do not necessarily vote that way.
    Rasmussen’s April 6th polls says that 47% say they’d vote GOP while 38% say they’d vote Democrat. So?

  29. “IMO journalists are so prejudiced against the Tea Party movement purely because it is not of their making and has sprung into existence below their radar and without their imprimatur. It is like a mirror held up to the MSM that refuses to show them any reflection without the aura of futility with which they are now enshrouded. They attempt to shatter it out of self-defense.”
    The media and it’s Journalists are loosing their grip. IMO, they become Journalists, not to report the news, but to try and change the world. A world where Big Govt and Big Media would call all the shots.
    The Tea Party movement is Middle Class America’s best hope to save democracy. The elite and the media and politicians do not like a free and strong middle class. Kings and Queens and Dictators and serfs and Pravdas are more their style. The masses are easier to control if they are poor and destitute and dependent on government for their daily needs – usually where Socialism and Communism ends up.
    Hence, the Canadian Media’s fawning all over the One during the campaign. Even though they knew nothing about his capabilities or lack there of – his being a Socialist was all they needed.

  30. Okay OZ I’ll bite.
    The Boomers, who have managed to oversee the destruction of the western family, ensured they’re kids are brainwashed in a Marxist public school system, allowed our healthcare system to deteriorate to the point of bankruptcy, failed to maintain infrastructure in exchange for entitlements and political bribes, overstayed their welcome in the work force limiting opportunities for young people have joined the Tea Party in disproportionate numbers!
    Well, whoopy do!
    Oh yeah, did I mention the Boomers, in their selfishness not having enough kids, will likely finally sink this economic ship called Canada because they’ll be entitled to their entitlements. Way to go guys!
    And, if I recall OZ, you are one of the commenter’s that sometimes make comments about minorities in a “racy” way. Not that I’m criticizing for that; but don’t you find it ironic that the main reason we require immigrants in such numbers, is because your generation was too busy pissing away our nations wealth when they should have been at home saving, parenting and building for future generations?

  32. What this shows me is that Tea Party affiliation is pretty much reflective of US society.
    It also shows the true nature of the ‘racist, sexist, homophobic’ chanters. There are plenty of psychiatrists qualified to show the lunatic fringe their feelings of oppression are self-induced.

  33. ET, smog and sparks -is- Dawgie’s argument. He’s just cranky his side is getting beat on. The more their aims are accomplished the more we beat on them.
    People don’t like socialism. The only reason dippers like the Dawg have held on this long is they lie about their aims. Dawg’s trying to pull the cammo netting back up, but its far too late.

  35. Incidentally, my recent trip to Arizona supports this poll. All anybody wants to talk about is how Obama is ruining the country, and they’re terrified of the national debt crashing everything. Black, white, hispanic, all the same.

  36. Sorry for the confusion ET. The data I am missing is the percentage of Americans that support the Tea Party movement not just a comparison of the percentage of each demographic relating the Tea Party to the American population. In other words I am interested in the percentage of Americans that support the Tea Party movement which if large enough will bring to fruition the aims of the Tea Party movement. After all if the Tea Party movement has equal representation of every demographic to the American population but comprise only 10% of that population its not going to change much whereas 90% support would be a complete game changer.
    Being honest I’m not so sure that Oblamebush won’t be re-elected despite his disastrous first term. We Canadians kept voting for the corrupt Trudeau and Chretien and the wet pantie brigade of the Toronto media would love to bring back those inglorious days. So long as the people believe they are getting more than they are paying for they will keep voting in the corrupt. Right now there are too many “Its like Christmas” Americans wanting what is not rightfully theirs.

  37. Indiana Homez gets a A+ for his analysis @ 12:15.
    Hopefully the Tea Party movement gets into some meaningful game changing support territory.

  38. The success of the T party will be their ability to change the GOP. Given the apathy of voters and reluctance to volunteer for low-level political committees, it require only small but dedicated groups.
    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/15/nation/la-na-tea-party15-2010feb15
    “Conservative activists who once protested the political establishment are now flooding the lowest level of the Republican Party apparatus hoping to take over the party they once scorned — one precinct at a time….”That’s where it all starts. That’s where the process of picking candidates begins. It’s not from [GOP leader] Michael Steele’s office down. It’s from the ground up,” said Philip Glass, whose National Precinct Alliance is among the groups advocating the strategy”

  39. It is generally assumed that a big rally is a potent indicater. Although it is theoretically possible that a minority fringe movement able to mibilize it’s entire membership will distort this…in practice this doesn’t occur often.
    What scares the OBOZO/MSM axis is that the TEA partiers can mobilize huge rally’s sometimes on very short notice. The NORKs are hard pressed to emulate this with their command performance “spontaneous” demonstrations.

  40. Polls schmolls. They got a poll last Sept.12 in Washington and they are going to get another one in November. Those stats being argued about here in this poll are going to be verified in overwhelming numbers. Just like a Sarah Palin Rally in The Villages. Only nationally. Another march on Washington and the vote in Novermber will erase any doubt about the validity of this or any other likened poll. The groundswell of outrage is overwhelming and growing. Healthcare now law and Cap and Trade on the way will make this one in November look like Niagara Falls, folks.

  41. sasquatch, I think what scares them the most is that the Tea Parties aren’t part of the Professional Protester movement sponsored by the Dems. Tea Parties sprang from nothing, they aren’t run by a political party, there’s no central control node to co-opt with money or favors, there isn’t even anyone to arrest. Its every politician’s worst nightmare.
    They’re fricking terrified, and I’m pretty sure the Republicans are too. As well they should be.

  42. Who cares about the Tea Party’s demographic breakdown? Nobody’s saying that the TP is on the fringe because of its age distribution, or educational profile, or employment status.
    Political groups or movements are considered to be on the fringe when their (surprise!) POLITICS skew significantly away from the mainstream. So, let’s look to the one area that would best offer some insight into whether a group’s membership reflects the political mainstream or not — i.e., their political and ideological views.
    Here are some more Gallup Poll results (http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx):
    – Republican? TP = 49%, US = 28%
    – Democrat? TP = 8%, US = 32%
    – Conservative? TP = 70%, US = 40%
    – Moderate? TP = 22%, US = 38%
    – Liberal? TP = 7%, US = 21%
    Judging from that, the TP may or may not be a fringe movement, but they’re definitely not representative of the general US population.

  43. Argument fail. Offence – use of improper logic.
    Nowhere is it stated what the proportion of tea party members is relative to the overall population. As such, they may very well be a “fringe” movement regardless of their demographic composition.

  44. Et: 28% is from the Gallup Poll Kate used above.
    Tim is right.
    Moreover, being ‘fringe’ shouldn’t matter. If their message is good, the movement will grow. If it is not, they will peter out.

  45. davenport – I disagree with your conclusions.
    The demographic breakdown of the Tea Party has been assumed (incorrectly) and touted by the Democrats as ‘older, white’ and therefore indicative that this movement is marginal and not reflective of mainstream America.
    But, first, as shown by the tables, the demographic breakdown almost exactly matches that of the US population. This is important. The next issue to explore is what does the US population, politically, think about political issues. And is the Tea Party reflective of mainstream concerns.
    AND, as I outlined from the Rasmussen March 28, 2010 poll, the political agenda of the Tea Party does match that of mainstream America. Therefore, they are not on the fringe.
    Your Gallup polls showing Republican and Democrat..I’m not sure what..preferences? Registered voters? ..is different from the actual ratio of registered voters, which is 42.6% for Democrats and 33% for Republicans out of 169 million registered voters.
    Therefore, for Gallup to come up with 28/32 is a strange statistic. I’m presuming that this is not registered voters but merely support, and this changes. Rasmussen is showing that support for the Republicans is higher now than support for the Democrats. So how does Gallup come up with this result? What was their question?
    In any case, this is not indicative of mainstream America because support depends on the policies of each party – and how much they differ from mainstream America. A lot of people feel that both the GOP and the Democrats do not represent mainstream America.
    There cannot, of course, be any registered voters for the TP.
    The terms ‘conservative, moderate and liberal’ are ambiguous and I’d want to see the questions that were asked before I’ll accept the data results. I find it difficult to believe that only 21% are ‘liberal’ when 42.6% are registered Democrats. What does ‘liberal’ mean if not ‘Democrat’?
    What does ‘liberal’ mean if you ask someone how is a declared Tea Party member vs someone who is a declared Democrat or a declared Independent? A Democrat may deny that they are a socialist, while a Tea Party member considers that the term ‘liberal’ means ‘socialist’. So how does one interpret this data?

  46. batman – thanks. I see the percentage.
    However, as I said in another post, the term ‘support’ is ambiguous. Does it mean actual participant in the rallies or does it mean support for their policies?
    Tim, the argument doesn’t fail because of improper logic (what are you talking about?). The argument is whether or not the Tea Party members are ‘radical white men extremists’, as declared by Democrats and the MSM – or, is their demographic base similar to that of mainstream America. The demographic data supplied by Gallup shows that the Democratic argument is invalid and the Tea Party members do reflect mainstream demographics except for a lower ratio of black people.
    The next question has to deal with political views. Do they reflect the issues that concern mainstream America? From Rasmussen, I’d conclude that they do.

  47. Well, even though I read, listen to, and watch NO MSM, my tinfoil hat signals did seem to concur with what I’m told MSM has to say about the Tea Party being a fringe movement.
    SO, I’m extremely and pleasantly surprised to see how closely the Tea Party tracks mainstream America.
    That said, I see zero evidence that the Tea Party is a limited government movement, that it is anti-statist. When I hear them talking about the need to severely curb/shut down bankruptcy-inviting entitlements, I’ll get excited.

  49. ET: I agree. Also, if you look at the entire Gallup poll, not just the potion Kate decided to post, you can see they don’t line up with mainstream america on gender or income and most importantly, not even close when it comes to politics. )http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/90613-poll-28-of-americans-support-tea-party)
    You’re right about ‘support’ being an ambiguous term. It’s probably easy to get a right-wing, republican supporter to say they support the Tea Party. Getting them out to a rally is another thing entirely.
    Anyone who looks at a rally can decipher the demographics for themselves.
    I expect that because the Tea Party movement is driven by outrage and hatred (not raced base, don’t make inferences), that it will peter out when people are bored of it. Anyone who looks at the signs these people are holding up can see how tasteless and hate-filled many members are. “Bury Obamacare with Kennedy” days after Kennedy died and nazi analogies are distasteful and will stop their message from being taken seriously by moderates, centrists, and anyone who isn’t looking for the next thing to be outraged about.
    By the time Obama is reelected in 2012, the movement will be a blip not even mentioned by the history books.

  50. me no dhimmi – I suggest you google the terms Tea Party and limited government. You’ll find a basic connection.
    http://louisvilleteaparty.org/2010/01/27/limited-government-a-founding-principle/
    batman – I don’t agree that the Tea Party is driven by hatred. It is certainly driven by, among other things, outrage – at the abdication of the founding principles of the Constitution and the nation.
    Its gender demographics are too statistically small to be significant. Its income is slightly more significant for the Obama agenda will affect the work result (income) of the main workforce of America.
    I don’t think that the Tea Party is a result of boredom and does not act to relieve that boredom nor will people become bored with it. Why not? Because its issues are real and are not akin to a late night dance or ‘going to a good movie’.
    I’ve seen the signs used by the Tea Party people –
    “Congressional Credit Card: 10 trillion credit line: expires April 15, 2009.
    Irresponsible spending. ENOUGH. Bailouts. Pork Projects. New Programs.
    I ran away from Socialism; I don’t want to run into it again’.
    Even: ‘The War on Prosperity is Calling YOU. Enlist in the IRS. Besides – no-one else is hiring’.
    As for your objection to the one ‘Bury ObamaCare with Kennedy’ – piffle. Get a life and stop expecting people to NOT be offended and NOT be angry at a statist takeover of 1/6 of the economy.
    Do you seriously expect people to sit passively by while the federal govt expands its bureaucracy exponentially, while it increases the deficit in excess of ALL deficits in US history, while it takes over banks and auto companies, while it hands out pork projects, while it insists that its bills must be passed by Congress without reading or debate, while it insults our traditional allies and apologizes for Being American all over the world? Do you seriously expect No Response from Americans?
    You are right; Nazi analogies are distasteful and for one of Pelosi’s aides to suggest that the TP were such, is juvenile – just as was her designation of them as ‘astroturf’. And Obama’s original pretence that the TP didn’t exist, and many other Democrats calling the TP ‘tea-baggers’ and ‘racists’… Not constructive at all; rather, a desperate attempt to deny their validity as representative of mainstream America.

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