125 Replies to “Tommy Douglas: Not Two Tier Enough”

  1. Stan wins the thread with 11:15
    And a bit of personal irony here, I know a heart surgeon who couldn’t get a full-time position in Toronto and even tried outside of the GTA, in Sudbury, and couldn’t get one there either. He left for the States. (I’ll keep an eye out for Danny’s surgeon and let you know if it was my friend.)
    And remember Chretien also sent his brutal-rapist stepson to the U.S. for psych treatment after the kid’s early release from custody here.

  2. Zog- Who is he usually bad-mouthing?
    I’ll be crucified for this, but I hope he dies. It would be a great day for Newfoundland, and for Canada. It would draw attention to a number of important issues, and it would be downright funny.

  4. Williams is no different than Lougheed, Chretien,Bourassa, Stronach etc. After what happened on his watch with the breast cancer fiasco he decided he had better not chance it with the NFLD medical system. They don’t call him Danny Millions for nothing. He is using money where it will do him the most good, in the U.S. Good on ya Danny your a real Canadian.

  5. dp at 12:13 AM
    Who is he usually bad-mouthing? Just about everybody.
    I suppose that you’re implying his principal bete noir, Harper but, if you listen carefully to the monologue, that doesn’t seem to fit.

  6. ab trapper, you forgot Jacko Laydowns trip to a private clinic to have his hernia fixed. The left wing politicians only ‘care’ when it is their own or their families lives that are on the chopping bloc. The minions are expendable in their collective opinions. Health funding eats up a huge percent of our GNP, most of the $$ are wasted on bureaucrats and slovenly union workers. Danny is just what Kate said he is – I used to respect the guy – that is gone, gone gone. Edmonton has a first class heart clinic – the bozo should have paid to jump the queue in his own country. He is no better than the Liberanos/Dippers/Blocheads who treat medicare like some sacred cow.
    I hope Fox News picks this up so that they can interview Danny boy and ask him what he thinks of medicare now! They could ask Shirley or Micky Ignatieff (our ‘other’ American) to be on the show at the same time.
    The media will be all over this in Canada. A right wing, hard right politician defying the sacred cow -the question MUST be asked: is Danny a traitor to medicare?

  7. Hypocrisy in government should be a criminal offense. So in effect I share Kate’s opinion on this matter.

  8. And we don’t want Danny dying, dp, because then the left would blame it on U.S. health care, and attack the U.S. system.

  9. Zog – give your head a shake, we all know who ‘he’ is – ‘he’ is not the green stick or either of his two troika pals.

  10. Danny Williams on Shirley and Tommy Douglas
    Danny Williams discusses Stephen Harper’s views on social spending and his discussions with Shirley Douglas
    1 year ago 984 views SBDipper Danny Williams on Shirley and Tommy Douglas
    0:23 October 01, 2008
    News & Politics
    SBDipper
    Danny Williams discusses Stephen Harper’s views on social spending and his discussions with Shirley Douglas984 views

  11. Williams is using 2 tier medical care. He is going to a private clinic – one that will attract and offer the best service – as opposed to staying in Canada and using the system created by his idol Commie Douglas.
    Problem is we dont have the private option in Canada because of politicians like Danny Williams.
    And politicians like Danny Williams tell us that as a result of they system they promote Canada has the best health care in the world.
    But since Danny doesn’t have to use it -nor does any other well paid civil servant – they have no dog in the game that they would shackle 90% of Canadians to.

  12. [quote]And we don’t want Danny dying, dp, because then the left would blame it on U.S. health care, and attack the U.S. system.[/quote]
    Well he is a Newfy…that means that blood donors must come from WV or Arkansas….

  14. Jema 54:
    Where do you get the idea that Williams is a “hard right” politician? The only thing I’ve heard him do is whine about how Canada screwed NFLD on oil revenue (he only shut up when the Liberals caved, and gave him 100% of it) and how NFLD will still need the same equalization payments from the rest of Canada even with billions in oil revenue pouring in. Doesn’t sound that right wing to me.
    Oh, and in 2006, NFLD’s GDP per capita was second only to Alberta’s. (Couldn’t find later figures) And with only half a million people there, housing prices are about 40% lower than in Toronto, and about half what they are in Vancouver. They really need those equalization payments.

  15. What is essential in this context is that socialized medicine is a violation of individual rights. Most conservatives never point this out, merely limiting the argument to “costs” and “outcomes,” which is why the Leftist politicians don’t take conservatives seriously.
    You have to stand up for your right to be treated by whomever you choose, whenever you choose, at whatever prices. And same goes for the practitioners. They should not be hamstrung in any way.
    If you don’t understand and assert your moral rights, instead reaching and settling for the foolish altruistic consolation that you are “helping the poor and needy,” you only have yourself to blame. You are a self-made slave.

  16. “The media will be all over this in Canada. A right wing, hard right politician defying the sacred cow -the question MUST be asked: is Danny a traitor to medicare?”
    Jema54, CTV is now referring to Williams’ trip to the USA for heart surgery as a possible snub to Canadian health care.
    BTW, the cardio unit at Victoria’s Jubilee Hospital is first rate.

  20. “dis stuff jus makes me newfie blood boil it do.”
    ….hey by…tunderin’ Danny he crossed a line there buddy!

  21. I don’t think Williams should literally be facing a Criminal Code offense for this. It’s the sheer hypocrisy of a medicare defender at election time running off to avoid our system when he requires surgery that disgusts people (along with practically everything Williams says whenever he opens his big fat mouth).
    I think “ward” @ 1:19 a.m. has the best take on the issue.

  22. I applaud Danny for getting his healthcare issue in the US. But in return he has to come up here and say he didn’t trust our system or that it needs reform with private investment. IF he continues down this Shirley Douglas/Tommy Douglas myth making exercisel, then he truly is the village idiot I have always thought he is.
    I have no problem with politicians going south on their dime to get their ailments looked after if they don’t get up the next week and rail against the “Americanization” of Healthcare. Peter Lougheed didn’t make an issue of it, Chretien, Williams and the like. AS for Jack Layton, I would arrest him just being an idiot, but I guess Iam being unfair to idiots arne’t I?

  23. I dont think Lougheed was a defender of our “one tier” system, wasnt it on his watch that Alberta got forced by the Trudeau government to stop double billing or extra billing? or have the transfer payments cut off ( the transfer payments not the equalization payments)

  24. If Newfoundlanders reelect this bozo in their next provinvial election, they will lose every ounce of my respect.
    Provincial Premeirs are not elected! They are appointed by a foreign monarch Queen Elizabeth. Before anybody labels me a heretic for this, show me a ballot with the position of Premier on it. No ballot… no democracy.

  25. Kevinb – I was putting words in the mouths of the media fools, it was intended to be ‘tongue in cheek’. I see I was correct about the media.
    I have no problem with anyone seeking private health care if they do not hold up the medicare mess like some kind of sacred cow (see video); ‘if they talk the talk they must walk the walk’ – Danny is not…guess he didn’t think he would get sick.
    What Danny has demonstrated by his actions (verses his words) is that mediocre (at best) care is good enough for the peons of the country (us) but it is not good enough for him.
    The media did not say boo about Jacko (the medicare champion) going to a private clinic (which Jacko publicly demonized) for his own hernia operation. Danny is not, officially, a msm ‘chosen one’ (liberano/Dipper/Blochead) so they would have to twist the hard right thingie to report on the behavior of the Premier.

  26. “The fact we can’t escape to some treatment 5 minutes down the road is most horrid.” Unfortunately, that is not true. Anyone can go south or even to India and get whatever they want done, it is just that it is on your own dime. However, I feel that said politicians should be banned from taking part in any health-care deals, talks, legislation and regulations due to conflict of interest.
    I find the whole business of not being able to buy medical insurance, except for your pet, disgusting. I can get supplementary insurance to lower my prescription costs and have my back straightened out by my chiropractor. It even allows me to have a semi-private spot in the hallway at emerg but it doesn’t cover the basics and it is illegal for me to buy one in Canada.
    btw, there is a PSA (Public Service Ad)running in the US from former Surgeon-General C Everett Koop warning seniors that if Obamacare comes in then they will be deemed too expensive for pacemakers, hips and such like the seniors in Great Britain.

  27. Now that Danny’s dashed to the U.S., to an undisclosed location, I wonder what Shirley Douglas has to say.
    Oh, wait. If she needed surgery, it’s likely she’d opt to have it done in the U.S., too, seeing as her father’s medicare plan for Canada has bankrupted the system, ensured that our best doctors and nurses have bailed, and guaranteed long wait times and often substandard health care for most Canadians.
    If you’re Danny Williams or Shirley Douglas, whose idea of “equality,” and “equal access” means that more-equal-than-others socialists can fly anywhere to obtain the best health care, who cares that the rest of us languish in wait lines as a positive prognosis fades into the distant future … if there is a future …
    I wonder what Bob Rae thinks about Danny’s Dash? Or Ignatieff? Or Jack and Olivia?

  28. Vituvius wins argument using logic, rational thought, and comparing apples to apples, Kate gets caught up in angry emotionally driven partisan dislike for Danny williams. Fail!

  29. Perhaps it’s not that we should look at MP’s and MLA’s to be treated the same as Canadian citizens, that it should be that Canadian citizens should be treated like MP’s and MLA’s . Wouldn’t that elevate our options somewhat??

  30. Bob.
    argument by assertion
    back of the class bobby!
    (just a tip Bob…i think Kate is comparing apples picked off the tree then in a timely fashion sold at whole foods vs apples picked last year and kept in storage for 3 months or more…THEN brought out for sale and consumption after the purchaser has had all his teeth removed from gum disease)
    (furthermore ‘logic’ and ‘rational thought’ is a redundancy)
    a decent enough effort Bob but requires work…DO keep trying!

  31. Drudge Report now has a link to the National Post article on Williams heart surgery in the US.
    The Libertarian in me says that if he has the money and no trust or proper care available where he lives, he has the right and the responsibility to his family and to himself to preserve his life. End of story.
    He may have the political fallout of a nuclear explosion, but he will have to deal with that when he gets back. Is it hypocritical? Sure! But he will have to answer the questions when the time comes.
    If it was your father, would you not want the best for him?

  32. Hey lay off Danny Millions.
    Reports are it was a heart transplant and the only surgeon with extensive experience in transplanting a donkey’s heart into a jackass is at the NC Veterinary Teaching Hospital.

  33. Throughout World War Two, the King chose to remain at Buckingham Palace and eat according to the same ration scale as his subjects.
    Now, of course, we all know the King still lived in better circumstances than the average person during that war.
    But here’s the point: the King – knowing he was the Head of State – understood he had to show solidarity with his people. Staying in London, and taking his chances with the Blitz, V-1 and V-2 bombers like everyone else was an important, and appreciated, gesture.
    So here’s the lesson for dear Danny: when you’re the leader, you have to set an example.
    If our no-tier health system is a “sacred trust”, you don’t get to duck out of it just because you’re well-heeled. As the premier, you have to be seen to be supporting the provincial health system – even if it means taking your chances with the rest of the hoi polloi.

  35. Hotair.com just linked to this post. I cant blame Americans for being interesed in this story, but it should be Canadians who care more about private healthcare being illegal in Canada…

  36. It is more likely that his affliction calls for the use of advanced technology methods unavailable in Canada. The reason for that is the slow adoption of such systems here because the costs are high and nobody in government wants to admit the public system is underfunded and inadequate. The great lie all politicians spew is that everything is fine while they ration services.

  38. Bob:
    I don’t agree that Vit wins. He asserts that MP’s are to be treated like other Canadians, but in fact, they already have special dispensations in the Criminal Code. For example, MP’s can make, without any fear, assertions and accusations on the House floor that would be actionable for slander if I made them on the street corner. People in, say, the finance industry can be sued for malfeasance or fraud; MP’s – not so much (I’m thinking about deliberate lies told during campaigns, like Trudeau’s opposition to wage and price controls or Cretin’s plan to axe the GST).
    And of course, police, fire, and ambulance drivers regularly speed, run red lights, etc. with impunity, while a Toronto doctor rushing to the hospital to perform emergency surgery gets a ticket. RCMP officers kill a man at the Vancouver airport, and don’t spend a day in jail, while I would have been convicted long ago.
    So quite clearly, the Criminal Code already does distinguish between different groups of citizens, giving some more powers and rights than us plebes. And some of these are clearly justified; others, not. Vit’s assertion that there should only be one law for all citizens doesn’t even pass an elementary smell test.
    Finally, saying all Canadians are free to go to the US for health care is disingenuous at best. I have described here a few times my experience with the US health system, where after a car accident, I was hospitalized for 20 hours with a broken foot, and sent home with a $40,000 Cdn bill. I’m diabetic, and the itemized bill they sent showed a charge of $100 US for a single shot of insulin. Here in Canada, I buy 100 doses for about $80. The US may have the better system for actual care (and based on outcomes, that’s certainly debatable), but its costs are bloated; my Canadian doctor told me that it would have cost less than $3,000 to get my treatment in Toronto. So, unless you’re willing to pay 10 times what you’d pay if you were an American hurt and treated in Canada, you really don’t have a choice.

  39. JJM
    The Brits were very adept at the “battle for hearts and Minds”…..
    The Queen Mom was quoted after Buckingham Palace took a bomb—“that she could then ‘look the East End in the eye'”.
    The Luftwaffe concentrated on the East End of London because of the docks. The East End got clobbered bigtime.
    British Heavy AAA was cencentrated about the East End.
    I know I’m an old Cold warrior but I find this business of criticizing Williams election to get his surgery done in the US very petty and smacks of commie ideology. If FOX runs with this perhaps it will be Canada’s contribution to the salvation of the US from it’s current struggle to reject communism.
    A socialist is some-one with nothing determined/obsessed to share it with everyone.

  40. RE JCL’s link at 10:09
    “The deputy premier of Newfoundland and Labrador says Danny Williams is undergoing heart surgery in the United States because the treatment he is seeking was not available in his home province. ”
    So others not quite as rich as Danny Millions will just have to go without.
    You cant get heart surgery in NFLD?

  41. People,
    If you are trying to pick on Kate’s stance about the criminal code, take two seconds and think of what it would take for that to occur.
    The same politicians that stand up in front of the cameras at election time to tell us that Politician A is wanting the US system and get elected through scaring the sheeple, would have to make it a criminal offence for themselves to use it.
    We all know that it won’t happen.
    Kate is simply saying, If you want to shoot down a two tiered system, you need to walk the talk.
    I agree with Kate. Politicians should be held to a HIGHER standard. Especially when their decisions are the cause of the problems.

  42. Ward,
    Exactly. When you ration services and stifle innovation, you get a bare-bones service with long queues.
    JCL

  43. By Kate’s logic, all of you who support the Iraq/Afghanistan wars should be over there fighting’em.
    Are you?

  44. Apparently if obamacare passes there are entreprenuers preparing to convert cruise ships into hospitals and operate them 12 miles offshore. (I am not kidding)
    (human) nature abhors a vacuum.

  45. How many times did the 2 Liberal Shoats, Chretien and Martin flee, Canada’s Healthcare system on Government jets to seek medical attention in the USA.

  46. KevinB: It may have cost you less to have your foot put in a cast up here in Canada but I dare say you would be still waiting in the hallway of the Emergency Department. (btw, the amount your doctor mentioned probably doesn’t include any of the hospital costs)

  47. Danny has the buck$ and can choose to spend them however he wants.
    I can form my own opinion on Canada’s health care system, based on my personal experience.
    Danny blows whichever way suits his political ambitions.

  49. I am tired of people telling me that health care in Canada is free. “We are so lucky in Canada because health care is free.” Just read that 50% of the Manitoba provincial budget goes to health care, with this number expected to rise due to aging baby boomers. I don’t know if this includes money from the federal government or if that is in addition to this. Where do people think the government gets this money from?

  50. Time to start printing “I [heart] Danny” T-shirts and bumper stickers. (Or “I [heart] U.S. health care” ones.)

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