From everybody’s favourite novelty newspaper (my emphasis):
As resistance to U.S. health reform rages on – with its inane, vicious, even racist overtones – the fiasco should remind Canadians of the dangers of allowing our public health-care system to deteriorate.
What makes health reform so elusive in the U.S. is the way its opponents – led by wealthy corporate interests – are able to play Americans off against each other.
It gets better:
The only real solution is public health care for all. A Canadian-style plan could save Americans $400 billion a year, Harvard’s Dr. David Himmelstein wrote recently in the New England Journal of Medicine.
But Americans are so uninformed about the rest of the world that few even seem aware any Canadian can spend weeks in hospital getting state-of-the-art medical treatment and then walk out the front door without owing a penny. Such is the menace of public health care.
Universal care is extremely popular once it’s in place …
Our health care system is second to none, which is why I get none.
If our system is so great, then why do we rank 30th in the world?
The socialized health care is not necessarily “bad”.
Of course the problem is that you can’t get any.
Interestingly, on a recent weekend relatives stayed over. A discussion erupted about the subject. In relative terms we are talking rich and poor, them and us, (this is not a complaint).
They like the health care a lot, having rather serious health issues, us not so. They get the health care they need, us, not so.
The difference is that, it seems if you have money, it is better to blow it on something other than health, if you don’t, tough luck in either case.
In a small town on the US border, it is nothing as impossible as getting health care.
Consider this; you pay something under $1200 a year, not necessarily a large sum though you can’t get any bloody health care. About, let’s say 8 klicks down the road, they would welcome you any time of the day, if you pay, if you have an extra insurance (which is another racket) that insurance won’t pay since they only pay what the socialist insurance doesn’t cover.
So the way it is, as the proverbial rock and a hard place, you can’t get any health care in Canada because there are no doctors to go to, and to go south of the border, while welcomed with open arms almost instantly, you have to pay.
The Red Star rooting for an American president??
I’m shocked!
If the US goes single payer — and acquires the wait lists that accompanies this move — it will mean no trips across the border for surgeries and emergency beds. And those hundreds of ambulance trips across the Windsor border will end too.
This means even longer wait lists and higher costs in Canada.
The less visible effect may be the most significant. Private care in the US drives a great deal of innovation because they focus on revenue rather than limiting costs. The spin-offs for us are many in terms of new tech and drugs.
How many new drugs and tech does the Canadian system produce every year?
Shove the racist crap where the sun don’t shine, Greg.
Posted by: bleet at September 22, 2009 3:55 PM”
?
can mr/ms bleet at all elaborate on how Greg’s post is racist?
you’re going to have to be very thorough in the explanation because I just don’t see it.
take all the time you need. starting now.
. . . drives them to defend to the death their right to deny health care to millions of their fellow citizens.
I am floored by the depth of ignorance in this sentence. Dear Linda, no one is “denying” anyone health care, they’re denying millions of people the “right” to have other people pay for their health care. I know this is Canada but even here don’t we at least acknowledge that my money is mine and no has a “right” to it greater than me?
And then, the idea that Canadians get the latest in health care may be true, I don’t know, but what I do know is we don’t get timely care. BC is actively rationing access to diagnostic tests like the MRI in order to reduce “elective” surgeries. As if one elects to have surgery in order to be pain free!
“Universal [your weekly cause here] is extremely popular once it’s [been forced into] place [by my Apparatchiks].”
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Universal Health care in Canada? Where? It is a myth. It doesn’t exist. What we have is a patchwork of Provincially run, expensive systems – none of which really work – which eat up almost half of our budgets, are not consistent – i.e do not mesh with our neighbour provinces- and are not even consistent within the region. Please make this clear to our Southern neighbors.
Ah, those Harvard guys, such pistols! They’re all such wonderful learned savants! Himmelstein! Ignatieff! David Miller! Such wonderful savants, idiot savants!
Liberals are blind, not only that, but what they can’t see they will swear does not exist. Not only will they swear it doesn’t exist, but they will declare anyone who disagrees with them on it to be stupid not to see what is self-evident to them.
I am not talking about God either. I am talking about the way that cultures take care of their members. US has universal health care. Nobody is denied treatment. It just doesn’t come from the govt tit.
Greg
Thanks for the run-down on your little theory. It’s certainly comprehensive, if a little too reminiscent of the types of wild-eyed rants one hears from over-excited individuals on street corners.
Unfortunately it’s all invalidated by your inability to refrain from racist asides in your posts, a tendency I’ve note among the rightists here (i.e., why make reference to the colour of Obama’s skin in a post which is supposed to be about his policies?). Surely you must be able to see that the manifestation of such lower sensibilities in your posts invalidates whatever point you’re trying to make.
“And of course I will not conceal the fact that I’m a gun-totin’, truck-drivin- polygamist who has married his sister, and the hound dog sittin’ next to me in the truck is toothless — which seems to be the current caricature as imagined in the Canadian press.”
Phew, thank god thats as far as it goes. I thought you were going to say you were married to your DOG.
Oh, and a minor correction on your statement about Canadian journalists being lefists. You guys seem to have the odd lefty journalist your self. Lke ABC, NBC, CBS MSNBC and CNN.
Horny toad
“A Canadian-style plan could save Americans $400 billion a year”
Blowing up every single hospital and clinic could save even more. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
When capitalists have to remind socialists that money isn’t everything, you know something has gone very wrong.
“What makes health reform so elusive in the U.S. is the way its opponents – led by wealthy corporate interests – are able to play Americans off against each other.”
Which is what the two dominant political parties have also done for quite some time-it’s not Dems vs Repubs, folks, they’re all on the same side. It’s them vs US. When people realize this, we can take steps to get rid of all these bozos and take back this country.
Why is health care in the US so expensive?
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_coverage/health/healthreform/july-dec09/chart_08-18.html
16% of GDP? And with a lower life expectancy?
And that is from the link provided by Illiquid Assets. Thanks for the current data that shows that Canada’s health care system costs the public less, and provides for a longer life expectancy.
I think everyone here should check out the data from OECD. But then what would you complain about?
Anecdotally, it seems to me that Canadian health care is deteriorating. It’s expensive and we’re not getting our money’s worth even when we do receive care.
Jema54, I thank you for the reminder. I was also around prior to our socialised health care (also when we still had a real flag), and I experienced the same as you. Doctors made house calls and there were no waiting lists, nor did it cost an arm and a leg. As a young adult I did not have (my choice) health care insurance of any kind, yet had no trouble paying the doctor and hospital bills for the birth of a friend’s baby. I was certainly anything but rich, which is why I have no patience with those indoctrinated into believing that we are now better off than before.
herb: “Thanks for the current data that shows that Canada’s health care system costs the public less, and provides for a longer life expectancy.”
Get real. The life expectancy meme is dumb. How many miles does the typical American drive in a year? How many ppl die in auto accidents?
Sure, it is easy to have a cheap healthcare system when you ration healthcare. Many metro American cities have more MRIs and Catscans than entire Canadian PROVINCES.
You’re welcome for the reality lesson.
–Hardworking conservative working overtime again tonight to pay for those greedy leeches in Big Labour.
Bleet blatted something about (nonexistent) racism in Greg’s post.
Hey Bleet –
Is it racist to call FLotUS Michelle Obama “Blackie O”?
Maybe is it just funny to point out Michelle’s fatuous syncophants’ efforts adoring her (appalling lack of) fashion sense, and her (homely looks and lack of) shapely figure. All this while punning on Michelle’s color vs a very famous and beautiful woman who epitomizes everything Michelle will always lack?
re: Toontown Kid
So, nothing to contradict what I said.
Anecdote is not plural for data.
Add up all these sad stories about how bad Canada’s health care is (anecdotes) and it still leaves us with the FACT, that Canada spends less on health care than the US, it’s people have a longer life expectancy, and all people within it’s borders have coverage.
So, if I’m reading correctly, most of the people here would like their health care to be more expensive, to die younger, and have a good percentage of the countries population to have no health care at all.
That about sums it up?
Horny toad,
I should think that an acknowledgement of cross-conubial relationship between humans and their beloved canine companions would be the mark of cosmopolitan intelligence.
Outside of that, I agree completely — every news program on the tube with the exception of Fox is an absolute disgrace. They are so far in the tank for the Black Avenger that the only way that you know they are lying is that their mouths are moving.
Perhaps you saw on Drudge that the Black Whip now says that he is ready to consider bailing out the newspaper business. That would be something. A propaganda ministry like the Soviet Union’s.
Down here we’re trying to put as much pressure on our politicians as we can. We’re hoping to delay until the mid-term elections.
Incidentally, only 6% of this so-called stimulus has been spent, and it is assumed that the rest of the money will be put into Democratic campaigns to boost their chances.
Still, I think that it is reasonable to see a big conservative, Republican advance at the mid-terms.
Yes Herb, by all means let’s look at the OECD data where we find the US ranked 37th and Canada is ranked all the way up at……30th!!! (With 40% and 46% respectively liking their system) Makes one want to run to the rooftops and yell “WE’RE NUMBER 30! WE’RE NUMBER 30!”
Alright then, instead of worshiping at the Idol of Mediocrity like a typical Canadian, why don’t we try to emulate Number 1, France. How about # 2; Italy. If that is too much for you, how about #20 Norway?
NOOOOOOOOOOO, any attempt to try to do what number 1 or 2 or 10 (Japan) is doing will lead us straight to number 37! (Apparently the only other country on the planet when it comes to health care comparisons)
So say the slobbering pigs as they waddle to the trough to gorge themselves while people wait months for surgeries.
Or perhaps something more parasitic is a more apt metaphor.
it appears kelly @ 4:17PM has my moniker.
For those who like to trumpet the fact that US life expectancy lags other countries, here’s some information.
Life expectancy is measured differently in different countries. For example, what is considered a life in a preemie baby that dies in the US is considered unborn in other countries.
There is also a study out this week that shows if you strip out the number of smoking related deaths from US life expectancy, it would have the among the highest life expectancy in the world.
Why? Until the 1980s the US had the highest smoking rate in the developed world.
Lastly, if you can live to 80 in the US you will have among the longest life expectancy in the world.
Why? Smoking and diet-related diseases take a greater toll on Americans than other peoples.
None of these factors involve the US medical system. In fact, if you look at care-related issues such as five year cancer survival rates, the US comes tops in the world with a 65% survival rate compared with just 50% in the UK.
CintB @ 2343….that is EXACTLY why herb,bleet, and the rest are PO’d. We ARE NOT at the bottom,therefore their carefully laid commie/socialist plan ain’t coming together.How else are these useful idiots supposed to jump the line,if their gubbermint tit jobs don’t provide enough bucks for them to go to the USofA? You know the old saying misery likes company/ in this case it’s a case of they are mad that the Black Avenger(love that!!) is soon going to be putting the Yank system even lower than 37th.
And Greg in Dallas,I thought the dog was supposed to steal your wife and pick-me-up truck?!?!?
America has reached the crucible: the inane, vicious, and racist 56 percent of Americans who oppose Obamacare must be crushed by the sensible, gentle and non-racist 44 percent.
Barring that, we start an adjective war.
Btw: Jema (6:41), *great* comment.
Yup every Canadian but the academic elite love Hospitals where the average wait is 12 hours.
re:Chris in the bridge
Nice try moving those goal posts. I thought the comparison was between the US health care system and Canada’s? Many people before you stated it was way better than Canada’s. You just proved the point that Canada’s is actually ranked seven places higher than the US’s. So, better and let’s not forget, cheaper. Would I like Canada to have the number 1 health care system in the world? Of course.
re: Chips
Diseases and obesity have nothing to do with health? So, you’d like to remove all personal responsibility from health care? So all those people waiting for surgeries, should be removed from any data about wait times, because they could have lead healthier, disease free lifestyles and not required surgery, thereby making our wait lists disappear?
Herb lied when he said that he got his link from Illiquid Assets. Herb supplied a different link from the far left PBS with slanted statistics. No mention of waiting list times for “universal” healthcare,
no mention of the lack of MRIs and Catscan equipment,
no mention of cross-border “shopping” for healthcare,
no mention of the two-tier system where the rich and connected jump ahead of the line,
no mention that 15% of Canadians do not have a GP in their “universal” healthcare, and
no mention that their are more bankruptcies in Canada – as a percentage – due to medical purposes is higher than the USA.
But I guess these are just “anecdotes”. It seems like nearly every Canadian has had a family member/friend/acquaintance who has had terrible experiences. But at least it’s cheap, right? That frees up money for a 45″ flat screen TV, so you’ll enjoy your unemployment while you’re laid up for 18 months in agonizing pain.
re:Toonownkid
That is the definition of ‘anecdote’. Some person just spouting off without providing any evidence to back up statements. Please provide links to some factual data backing up your claims. I’m not saying I don’t believe you, but I also don’t believe the earth is flat if someone says so. I’ll wait.
Did you read the pbs article? You know, the part where they get all their ‘data’ from? Yes, the OECD, the same link provided earlier. No lie.
I spent some time in Windsor,Ontario last month. In the local rag,the Windsor Star,there was a 3/4 page ad for the Henry Ford clinic across the river. There you could get all sorts of medical services,almost immediately,cash on the barrelhead.The ad showed a young woman,with this blurb,and I am paraphrasing, ‘I live in Sarnia,but I take care of myself in Detroit’…. Hmmmm,makes you think,doesn’t it?
[quote] I am talking about the way that cultures take care of their members. US has universal health care. Nobody is denied treatment. It just doesn’t come from the govt tit.[/quote] Tim Vt
Tim,
Its amazing that Canadian Experts don’t realize that the 45 (16) Million require MORE Doctors & Nurses. Now where can we get those ppl? Its funny how those that think they have something secure get thier pockets picked…Canada should be afraid.. very afraid of Obama Care….
Tort Reform:.The Lawyer for the plaintive Sue.. The Doctors Insurance Company has thier Lawyer defend… The two lawyers settle the case over cocktails…Insurance Company pays & up go the rates.. What’s not to love…
Single payer is not the villain here – though it does have its problems; in Canada, non-competitive, unionized, single provider structures create the wait list and the listless care.
Imagine if multiple providers were allowed and paid the base rate by the standard health care system. Now, if you wanted a clean room, attentive nurses and an atmosphere of competent calm, you might buy insurance which would pay for you to be in a parallel private system. Or the company you worked for would pay for it because you’d negotiate that as part of your contract.
Right now, except in Quebec, that is illegal in Canada. Soon, if the Dr. Brian Day case is successful, it will not be. We will then have the dreaded “two tier” medical system where people who chose to pay for more comfortable, less rushed, care will be able to while everyone will have the essential care they need.
Myself I like that.
Not trying to move any goalposts. Perhaps my rant was slightly off topic. (I think the original topic was the vile hatred spewed by a typical lefty nitwit with no comprehension of facts and therefore must pull out the usual leftist name calling)
I am simply sick and tired of a number of things in this country (I’ll stick to health care)
1) The belief that all must suffer equally
2) The only other country in the world with a health care system to compare to is the US
3) Any deviation, any attempt to move away from the status quo, any attempt to make things more efficient and better are met with the stupid belief that it will make our system more like the US
Our health care system is wrought with greed. The greed of those that can hijack and blackmail the system for their own ends. Not corporations. But the Big Union Bosses who care not a wit for the health of the patients they are charged with but to fatten their own wallets.
hey, bleet grew a vocabulary! Probably from reading SDA…
Maybe while you’re busy slinging stones in your little glass house, you utter and complete dunderhead, you should consider this time-buffed nugget:
Better to stay silent and be thought an idiot than to start typing and remove any doubt.
In your case, we already know you’re an idiot, so a bit late for silence – but we’d still appreciate it.