Catch ‘N Release Canadian justice takes to the high seas.
An attempted attack by Somali pirates on a Norwegian tanker was foiled by Nato warships and helicopters after an overnight pursuit in the Gulf of Aden.
Nato said a Canadian warship caught the pirates before releasing them after the gang attacked the MV Front Ardenne.
The alliance said the pirates had been released because they could not be prosecuted under Canadian law.
I trust that when this incident moves from news to mockery on American networks, Canadians will have the good sense to keep their traps shut.
“I have a question for the armchair admirals here.
What would you done with them?”
~AtlanticJim at April 19, 2009 12:37 PM
I would have stopped them like you stop a clock.
These pirates weren’t stopped they were delayed.
…the ROE of the Navy in this instance is not to kill maim and destroy…it is to stop.
…and release. That’ll teach ’em. LOL
United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea – Part VII
Article100
Duty to cooperate in the repression of piracy
All States shall cooperate to the fullest possible extent in the repression of piracy on the high seas or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State.
re·press (r-prs)
v. re·pressed, re·press·ing, re·press·es
v.tr.
1. To hold back by an act of volition: couldn’t repress a smirk.
2. To put down by force, usually before total control has been lost; quell: repress a rebellion.
These pirates weren’t repressed, the were delayed.
Hey, let’s try a LIEberal solution:
LEGALIZE PIRACY!
People are going to commit piracy, and we shouldn’t legislate morality, therefore we should legalize piracy. /sarc
Catch and release is suggesting to the pirates that no harm comes to them, even when they do evil.
The problem isn’t the Navy, the problem is the ROE enacted by politicians who don’t have moral compass.
Catch and release is the moral equivalent of hoisting the Jolly Roger from the Peace Tower.
What Canadians and other like minded nations need to do is elect politicians with a moral compass and write some rules that actually have teeth, and leave some discretion to commanders/commodores at field/sea.
The fact that Somalia is an unholy mess for the past 20 odd years, doesn’t suddenly legalize or morally equate to the justification of piracy.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
These ROE are a problem not just by failing to interdict the piracy but by their inevitable result of brakdown of chain or command and discipline. “Atrocities” (summery executions) by frustrated individuals and units inevitably results. The MY LAI incident in Viet Nam was such an incident.
As noted, recently there seems to be a sudden lull in the taking of un-uniformed prisoners in A-Stan.
I am not condoning such but pointing out the obvious.
What the Canadian government can DO is stop taking their marching orders from the freakin UN to start.
Well, well, well, Tanker, where have I advocated the use of force? Sedition, nice try, dimwit. This is what freedom of speech looks like, twit. I’ll make you a deal, when you disband the HRC’s, and eliminate discrimination in the Canadian workforce based on race, I’ll stop slagging your political class as a bunch of dangerous, self-serving psycopaths intent on self-aggrandisement, even at the price of young soldiers’ lives! (Taliban Jack, this means YOU).
By the way, you may be interested to know of a little conversation one of our brigade chiefs had with one of your Company Co’s blocking a road we were going to take to deal with the SWAPO invasion of Namibia in 1989. You know, the invasion by about 5000 SWAPO and Cuban regulars who as far as you (as a political entity called “Canada”) were concerned were just coming to “vote” in the elections, what with their T 55’s and their 57 mil AA guns. We were going to deal with that SWAPO regiment. You could stand there and die defending a gang of murderous Commie thugs (essentially as ordered to do by your dangerously out of control politicians) or your Coy. Co. could disobey his orders and allow us to do what YOU (as a military force) were being PAID to do (protect the people of Namibia from having their election stolen by the Commies right out from under their noses).
As a result, fortunately, a SWAPO unit ceased to exist, and the people of Namibia got to choose their government legitimately, and more interestingly, your Coy. Co. had political cover (which we realised we had to give him), see, cause we threatened to kill you all, no prisoners (and we meant it, mate!)
On that kind of note did you know almost all your counter-insurgency practises you’re using in Afghanistan today are the result of experience in the Cold War gained by Southern African and Middle Eastern countries (think Rhodesia, South Africa and Israel, while you were tearing up farms in the German countryside in your fancy big tanks). So thanks for thanking us for showing you’all how to fight COIN-OPS.
Today, your soldiers are constantly being placed in perilous situations by your ignorant and incompetent (and in many cases outright seditious) political class.
Also you might note that that particular piece of legislation you refer to has now become obsolete, as it is clearly not being enforced (if it is, then why is the Khadr family not on trial?) Heck they’ve even gone so far as to join the other side. Inform yourself, chum.
You, and you brothers in arms have been thoroughly cowed by disgusting little lefty squibs from poli-sci departments with a deeply hostile view of soldiers and soldiering, and you are just fine with that. WOW, we used to regularly head to town on Friday nights to deal with university students who were slagging the troops behind their backs. University followed by a quick “holiday” to Europe was how these a$$-clowns avoided their draft papers .
As I said before, if the military is NOT a credible player in the life of a nation, that nation will wither and die. You can’t buck history, and actually the military DOES hold the key to power. That is my point. Again, Turkey has it right. You can slag me and my real Cold War experience all you want, but Turkey is a NATO member, and it seems more robust than Canada, certainly militarily.
So I’m not a big fan of the “Canadian way” because you end up with far more blood on your hands, and screams in your conscience, like Darfur, Rwanda, etc, etc,… But hey, at least your damned politico scum sleep well at night.
Ironically I suspect just as it is the military holding Pakistan together, it may be that the military is the only institution capable of rescuing the Venezuelan people FROM Hugo Chavez. ergo my arguments above…
Ignore the role of the military in the life of a nation, and that nation loses its will to survive.
For instance, given the currnet ‘International’ desire to drag Western and Israeli generals and officers through “International Courts” how long do you think it is going to be before soldiers are going to demand immunity IN WRITING from prosecution in International Courts before killing their enemies?
And how long before that immunity proves “invalid”, that they disband themselves and refuse to fight? Israel is getting there, and soon you will begin to see a breakdown of morale and discipline in the ranks. (This recent affair in Gaza produced some interesting results on that front).
How do we know you’re a real soldier, “Canadian Soldier”? Just had to wonder aloud. “Canadian Sentinel”
I have read your bio and I don’t see any military experience on there…so I definitely don’t have to justify to you.
I know what I have done over the course of my 27 years in the CF, I know where my loyalties lie. I don’t profess to be something I am not, and I do take exception when a “wanna be” questions my service. Especially, as it appears, to someone who has obviously never been faced with a shoot or no shoot situation.
Just wait. These same pirates will sue the Canadian Government for abuse.
They can’t be tried under Canadian law, however they can be shot under maritime law.
Canada uses the sport fishermen rule for all types of criminals, catch and release. Thanks in big part to the Trudeau Charter which trumps common sense.
I am not so upset with them letting these guys go. What disturbs me is the no action against the guys that send them out and negotiate the number of pieces of eight. There has to be bank transfers etc. and that is where we should be. From the boats and weapons the guys taking the risk are probably doing it to not starve. Just follow the money and let black ops handle it. If it is going to fund terrorists the picture gets a lot clearer.
“The alliance said the pirates had been released because they could not be prosecuted under Canadian law.”
Step one: Kill “The alliance”
Steo two: Kill pirates.
Right you are Liz J.
Part of the allure of being a pirate is the ‘glory’ of stolen bounty, the power granted to a free wheeling thief who gains his livelihood from the work of others. A pirate is a free man..and he does not pay taxes because the taxes have already been paid on the property that he claims! There are many types of pirates; the free wheelers from Somalia are small fry when we consider the real crooks who lodge on nice comfy furs stealing from taxpayers without being forced to walk the plank..or steal elections via Community Organizations like ACORN..or gov’t grant types who take money and produce nothing.
The Somali pirates are easy to put on the frount plate by the msm outfits to get our dander up but if the pirates on the high seas are mowed down someone might start focusing on some other not so brave pirates hiding their loot in secret trusts and warming their sorry behinds on nice comfy furs…
Jesus wept!
Oh good Lord, now commentators here are outdoing themselves trying to wrap themselves in the frikkin flag. Everyone, give your heads a shake.
Why did the Canadian warship even pick up these pirates if they couldn’t do anything? If it was my Canadian flagged ship that was under attack could the Canadian Navy help? You have to admit, for us to pick up pirates and then let them go sounds like an exercise in futility. What use is a Canadian war ship in that part of the world if it cannot do anything. The Canadian military does and always will do what they are ordered to do. The problem is up the proverbial food chain.
And yes, Canadian Soldier and whoever, 22 years serving queen and country in both the naval and air arms of the Canadian (Armed?) Forces. And I was embarrassed at the “catch & release”.
Lets see if I have this right Canadian Soldier. A band of pirates looking for booty, coming at you with RPG’s and armed with AK 47’s which they are firing – so – our navy blows them out of the water and you call it what – excution?
What am I missing here? If the good guys can’t take out the bad guys – especially when there are weapons involved then please explain to me just what the hell is our navy doing out there anyhow!
To all the current serving members of our Armed Forces: thank you, thank you, thank you! You are most certainly not the ones with whom we are frustrated in these situations. That frustration lies with the numb-brained, chicken-s@#t bureaucrats from the UN and our own limp-wristed politicos who hobble you in your efforts to make the world a safer and better place.
Would that you could be given the free rein to make the international shipping lanes safe by force of arms or whatever other means you and your commanders deem necessary and most efficient trusting in your judgment and good sense.
I won’t hold my breath.
I wonder how many ships are going to suddenly change from running foreign flags to Canadian/American flags?
My Gawd PC toxicity has made our official judgement in rem demonstrably retarded …..we are sooooo backward when it comes to identifying and coping with real bad guys, I feel nothing but shame.
With any luck they were released right next to an American ship.
To further elaborate what I said at 8:04….
Under international law, unless the pirate catching ship has “interest” in the specific ship that the pirates were attempting to loot, they can only do a catch and release.
If the ships voyaging by Somalia were flying under a Canadian flag, something could’ve been done.
“They’re Somalis…they should be tried under “Somali Law”!
Somalia is a chronic failed state, there is NO discernable rule of law there. They should have been held and tried under international maritime law for piracy….then hung.
It’s obvious this nation hasn’t the resolve to deal with real world evil…any presumptuous strutting on the world stage as a “peace power” is a neurotic dream and a sad joke.
The least they should have done is sink their ship.
Chasing them at night, I’m sure it would have looked like a fully operational menacing destroyer on the radar and it should have been sunk with an appropriate volley of fire power.
One has to defend one’s self you know.
‘Honest Sir, it was this lonnngggg.’
heh
Who needs to give these pirates a trial. If they are committing an act of piracy they will be engaged in a gun battle and may the best man win – who is breaking any laws here?
Have I heard some idiot try and tell us these pirates are only kids 14,15 16 years of age?
The ineffectual United Nations is strangely silent and ineffective once again ( too busy hiring Maude Barlow to be Commissioner of all things water except Piracy on the high seas)
bcf,
you big, big hero, you….
The National Defence Act applies to members of the Canadian Forces, not to civilians like the Kadhrs… which pretty much proves my point that you’re an ignorant little d**k who likes the thought of the military running things, as opposed to someone who can be thoughtful about the role of the military in a democracy.
Encouraging our soldiers to sedition, well… why don’t you just go frack yourself. Please, if you admire military dictatorships that much, emigrate to Pakistan and don’t let the doorknob hit you in the a$$ on the way out.
BTW, thanks for your great Namibia story – I used to read that kind of make-believe in Soldier of Fortune before I knew better, i.e. that most of the goons who tell such tales never left the bar in Jo’burg….. Son, you sound just like an SoF wannabe… the guys who’ve been there don’t boast about it… But thanks for playing with the grown ups. Go look up what a “Walt” is. Right now, you’re walting along like a pro.
Will Ken Dryden stand up in the house this week and squeel about “wanting his Canada back”?
What do you think the Chirac / Lieberal reaction to this would have been? Talking about how bringing these Somali Pirates to France / Canada would enrich multicultural diversity?
I heard something a while back. It seems Ron Paul stated the obvious and suggested “Letters of Marque” be revived. This is granting privateers licence….
I doubt neither Backwater nor Haliburton would be doing “catch and release”—-especially when no-one was looking—-a bounty would be neccessary to get prisoners.
It is worthy of note that pirates are not a feature of Chinese territorial waters………
Atlantic Jim asks: “What would you [have] done with them?”
Jim, it seems silly to send a multi-zillion dollar warship to pirate infested waters to do catch-and-release. It also seems silly to spend megabucks on hunting a bunch of teenagers in crappy open boats with small arms in the first place.
If it were up to me every ship sailing through the area would have an armed crew and a deck gun. International waters means you are on your own and can return fire as necessary to defend yourself and your vessel. Returning fire should be the first response, not something the government does ten days later after intense negotiations with illiterate khat-doped punks.
Clearly this catch-and-release program is NATO/UN ROE and not Canadian Forces, because the Dutch and the Portuguese are doing it as well. Its imbecilic PC Euroweenyism, in my humble non-soldier opinion.
NATO should be bombing the pirate’s bases, sinking their boats, destroying their infrastructure, killing their leaders and generally making their lives hell until they all run away screaming. Get in, get it done, go home.
Or if not, then stay the hell in port and save us all a buck or two, God forbid. Let the shipping company pony up for some armed sailors, its their boat.
But then I lasted a year in the reserves, so I surely don’t know everything. Am I wrong? If so, which parts?
FYI, Cdn. Soldier, both of my brothers have military experience. One is a veteran of Gulf War I and is currently at sea. They’ve both been all over the world.
No offence, but there’s folks out there pretending to be whatever’s convenient to spread propaganda. Online, we never know for certain that anyone’s what they say they are. So that’s why I raised the fact that there’s no way to verify most folks’ claims. Just a point of fact.
Myself, I couldn’t enter the CF, as one needs to hear to be a soldier. Haven’t heard a thing since I was five.
I read in this week’s Vancouver Sun about a career criminal who was up before a BC magistrate for breaking into a 91 year old pensioner’s house,not once but on three seperate occasions. It was also noted that this useless thug F$ck had amassed over Fifty convictions since 1977.
You already know the rest of the story,but I’ll say it anyway….the judge gave him 23 months in jail.
Now because its under two years, he’ll serve it in provincial lockup (much more user friendly)…most likely do two thirds…about 15 months, and receive double credit for remand time.
Probably 12 months time served, wouldn’t be far off the mark.
MY POINT?
Whether in Canada or a Cdn. military vessel in international waters; policy run by Cdn. politicos…it makes no difference,… so one can’t expect more than a sanitary solution of PC; nor should they as the world has gone mad and nothing is nor means anything save a paler shade of gray.
Before we succumb to a lethal case of testosterone poisoning, keep in mind the mighty US navy wasn’t exactly scouring the seas hunting pirates before their own ship was attacked. If the most powerful navy in the world isn’t interested in taking on the problem, what are we supposed to do? This really isn’t our problem and we have absolutely no jurisdiction.
The US Navy is busy protecting Europe’s oil supply from attacks by rogue states.
I’ll let you guess which ones those are.
Attacks by pirates against super tankers are rare.
Phantom has the right idea, these ships should be armed with .50 cal, 20mm, maybe even 37mm deck guns.
Canadian and Dutch ships caught and released pirates because of some law that says if they cannot be prosecuted under your home law, they must be released? And Canada has no Piracy legislation so they must be released? That sounded ridiculous so I looked up the Criminal Code of Canada and I found this:
Piracy by law of nations
74. (1) Every one commits piracy who does any act that, by the law of nations, is piracy.
Punishment
(2) Every one who commits piracy while in or out of Canada is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 75; 1974-75-76, c. 105, s. 3.
My bet is that it has been decided that it is easier to catch and release (right now) as a deterence than it is to bring them home prosecute and jail them. We know from years of International experience that taking them aside and giving them a good bollocking and finger wag will teach them a lesson they’ll not soon forget.
Do the maritime laws on piracy not still exist?
Just because laws are a bit dusty doesn’t mean they don’t still have the force of law.
I also hope we remember that when we recall that treason is still a crime and so is violating all of the un-used secrecy laws.
It is my (non-legal) opinion that if pirates can be shot at on sight under the old laws and that those laws aren’t repealled that they’re still in force, no?
“I have a question for the armchair admirals here.
What would you done with them?”
What we all would have done in the Navy’s place: followed orders and stayed out of military prison.
This isn’t about what the soldiers did, it’s about their orders. We don’t hold the grunts responsible for the idiocy of their superiors. It’s the superiors that are the twits. Be those cowardly desk-pilot generals (the only rank the CF aren’t short of) or the politicians and their lawyers.
We have well trained (if ill-equiped) soldiers who have the balls to get the job done. The Fort Ottawa brass manning the desks at headquarters and their political masters won’t let them.
Catch and release, have to love it.
I’ve only been in the forces 10 years, but love enough to see how ineffectual the UN is, and how hazardous it is to the Canadian military let alone it’s civilians. This pirate situation doesn’t surprise me in the slightest, I would of been more surprised if they lit em up. We need to get out from under the UN yoke, but that will never happen.
Personally, I am gona shutup. Got enuf problems with Obamanation and AGW, 2nd Amendment, Guns, Military Budgets, Taxes and then just found out last week the FBI was watching me and now I am a suspected Terrorist.
Yep, think I’ll just shutup.
,
one would think that after 5,000 years of water craft, the human race would come up with procedures to deal with piracy.
not according to Canuckistan rules of engagement.
I blame the Harper conservatists’ disinterest in the goings on in that area of the world.
RM, look at a map of Somalia. The U. S. Navy along with several others including China is scouring the seas but the Gulf of Aden and primarily the Indian Ocean are very large areas to cover. We need to return to the days of the Founding Fathers: Scuttle their ships and execute the crews.
Not being familiar with the Canadian military branches, my family has held the RCMP in high regard for decades. While traditionally the RCMP were hell on wheels in terms of crime prevention and law enforcement, some Sudbury friends indicate now that their primary focus is on seatbelt law enforcement. Their brother is an RCMP and a scary dude he is indeed. Although on a scale of 1 to 10, I’d say 11.5 conservatively. Seems the same thing has happened to the military. Keep voting conservative and your soldiers will once again have the opportunity to man up as most of them would undoubtedly prefer.
We had to let them go…they were within the slot size for pirates.
Canadian Sentinal, you probably hear as well as some Artillery folks I’ve known. 😉
As to the wankers out there who are taking exception to those who wish the navy would blow the buggers out of the water (Royal Navy 1700’s style). What one wishes to be done and actually councelling that an illegal act be done are two different things.
As an American I must ask what would Don Cherry do?
I think next time Canada should force them to read Iggy’s book. That will teach them!
I do not know why any Navy Vessel would have released them, but they must have had a good reason. I have faith in the CAF and they were just following orders.
wow, poor animals…. 🙁