“…a century-long effort”

26 Replies to ““…a century-long effort””

1. “I see Afghanistan as a century-long effort, because Pakistan and the region as a whole need to be brought forward.”
   So, we’re to continue sending Canadian kids over there for the next 100 years?
   As to “bringing the region forward”, perhaps the locals don’t see democracy and the rest of our sacred cows as “advancements”, but backsliding into Hell.

2. dmorris…So, we’re to continue sending Canadian kids over there for the next 100 years?
   If necessary…YES.And these are not “kids”.The men and women in our Forces have more guts,courage,fortitude,and a sense of what is right in their little fingers then you have in your whole body.And yes,we have lost 100.Any commander in the world would give his left nut or her right tit to only lose 100 brave personnel in 4 years.
   As to “bringing the region forward”, perhaps the locals don’t see democracy and the rest of our sacred cows as “advancements”, but backsliding into Hell.
   How can you backslide into Hell,when you are coming out of it? So honour killings,throwing acid on girls going to school,wrapping women in burlap sacks,Sharia law, etc,is not Hell? Maybe you should haul your sorry ass over there and see how much you enjoy it.Or are you a Neanderthal who can only get women through subjugation??
   (sorry for feeding the obvious Taliban Jack troll,Kate)

3. It will be quite interesting to see how the great Obama handles the situation. Turn it into a political war? Find the best way to back out with the most public friendly excuse? Sound tough, look good and do nothing in the traditional liberal way? Which way?
   My guess, all of the above. If anyone can turn it into a 100 year effort Obozo’s your man.

4. I’m afraid I’m coming around to dmorris’s view.
   If these people are our enemy, we should kill them not help them. They are mostly illiterate, inbred ingrates.

5. Afghanistan has a Sharia dominant constitution. Nothing will change there while that is the case. They are ignorant and indolent due to the ideology that grips them relentlessly. We gallantly waste our blood, treasure and resolve in the Afghan landfill that has been successfully engineered by Saudi Arabia and implemented by whispering into the gullible ear of a grateful President Bush. All parts essential to Islam’s larger plan. Our Canadian forces should have their boots on the necks of the sleazy Saudi’s in Mecca if you want to bring Islam to heel.

6. Justhinkin, but not very clearly, you’ve outed me, a long time fan of Jack Layton, Pierre Trudeau, Marx, Lenin, Tommy Douglas,Al Gore,and Mo Strong. Did I forget anyone?
   What do YOU call a 21 year old? To me, he’s a”kid”, young enough to be my grand-kid, and I hate seeing our soldiers/kids die fighting a war with one hand tied behind their backs,with their every move scrutinized by NATO, the UN, the MSM, and every other “peace-lovin” group on Earth.
   And I hate the gloating of Global and CBC and the rest when one of our kids comes home in a coffin.
   Some of my relatives are in the Canadian military, some have served in Afghanistan, and thank God, came home, some may be deployed there yet, and I don’t relish seeing one of them killed for a “century long” war in a Country I don’t care about, and neither do most Canadians.
   Some armchair soldiers, here and elsewhere, have no problem staying the course, when it’s someone else doing the fighting, someone else risking their lives.
   Democracy will never be sold to a people who don’t want it. It is OUR system, not Afghanistan’s, or Islam’s way, and we aren’t going to democratize Afghanistan in 100 or 200 years, and I am sick of seeing our best young people sacrificed for a backward Nation no one really gives a damn about.
   We need these fine people at home a lot more than we need them being killed in a third world shithole.
   Prescription; send all the “observers”, UN officials, and the MSM home, then turn the war over to our soldiers, with orders to WIN.It’ll be far more bloody than Canadian society is willing to accept, and it’s the only way we’ll win.
   We are trying to drag a tribal society forward to democracy, a five hundred year advance in 10 or 20 years, it hasn’t worked before, and it won’t work this time.
   Afghanistan is simply not important enough to me, for us to continue sacrificing our best young people.
   If you want to fight there for 100 years, go ahead,join up! Our troops went in , kicked the Taliban’s ass, and it’s time to come home.
   Afghanistan isn’t worth the toll, and when our politicians inevitably weary of the whole scenario, and bring our troops home, long before 100 years has passed,the Country will return to the system they are used to, an Islamic dictatorship, and our KIDS will still be DEAD.
   Leftwing troll? Yes, that’s your only reply, isn’t it?

7. “Our Canadian forces should have their boots on the necks of the sleazy Saudi’s in Mecca if you want to bring Islam to heel.” And in Tehran…
   but the point is, if the West doesn’t even have the guts anymore to legally summarily hang Somali pirates captured on the high seas, do we realistically think the West as a whole has the courage of it’s own former convictions to act decisively together to defend itself and attack the disease at it’s core?
   There are two evils here: Islamofascist aggressive expansionism and Western cowardice.

8. dmorris…answer my question…Have you served? I have.Golan is just a wonderful place/sarc.Although Kathy alluded to it,you never said it. Kill them all,and let God sort it out.Now that I will agree with.Otherwise,pull out and come home. We will need them in TO,Montreal,etc, to keep the f&*king immigrant scum from Arab countries we have allowed in here under control.You think the car-b-ques in Paris can’t happen here? Dream on.

9. I too question if we should be there under the present circumstances. If a full commitment is made with the force to back it up I say stay, if not, get the hell out. I think a surge there will accomplish the same positive results it did in Iraq, if, and I emphasize IF, we are willing to take on Northern Pakistan, with, or without the help or blessings of the Pakistani government. Northern Pakistan is the key to success in Afghanistan.

10. Western Canadian….Now that I will agree too.Unfortunately,our government WILL NOT commit to all out war,as dmorris noted.We have to kiss the UN’s,MSM’s,etc asses.That’s just the way 99% of Canuck sheeple are.More worried about keeping the “polite” Canuck image,then doing what is right.Oh sure.We spout a good pile of crap about rights,etc.But when push comes to shove,we stay in our cozy little enclave,and scream about the wrongs,instead of doing something about it.
    And yeah,dmorris.You are of the lefty mind-set.

11. The problem with Afghanistan is that it borders Pakistan and a region where the Taliban/Al Qaida can run and hide and regroup. As long as there is a safe place to go and regroup, there will always be an insurgency. Someone is going to have to go and occupy the ground where the enemy lives, or else Yon is correct in his assessment of 100 years war.
    Afghanistan was the breeding ground for 9/11. I can’t believe that we have such a short attention span as to not be able to stomach the commitment to stay there until the problem is solved.

12. Co-worker commented on how USA and canada should get out of all these places. Mentioned that it was not our place.
    Yada yada yada
    So I asked, what would happen if the USA found resolve and went and totally conquered those countries?
    His reply was the world would end.
    I mentioned the last countries the USA defeated are Japan and Germany. They are doing ok. BMW, Honda and Toyota come to mind in these billion dollar bailout times.
    Too bad there is so little discussion of what could become of some of these places if and it is a big if, real democracy could take hold.
    But then Jack Layton would want a union…… The CBC would say Afghanistan is loosing it’s culture because there are too many K-fry and micky’d’s…… Gore would absolutely oppose any real standard of living because the planet will combust…..
    I guess I found a reason.

13. Most of the soldiers who have come back from Afghanistan I have listened to, really like the Afghans and feel their work is worth it. The point is not to “fix” Afghanistan, because that will take the 100 years, what we are attempting to do is to give them a leg up so they can start fixing their own country and help them ward off outsiders and make no mistake the Taliban and their backers are not for the most part Afghanni’s, nor do they have the best interests of Afghanistan in mind. NATO and the US will lieky have to be there for a generation, so that the kids going to school now can start fixing the problems. It ain’t going to be perfect or pretty, but the choice is to let Afghanistan slide into total chaos that will take the rest of Central Asia with it.

14. I pretty much agree with dmorris. I don’t think we should have sent troups there in the first place. I think the libs should be hung for that.
    However now that they are there we should back them 100%.
    I don’t think that we can ever win because the moslem religon does not recognize the rest of us (non believers) as humans.
    As our army is there we should back them to the hilt. I know that “Killer” cretchen couln’t be bothered and I don’t think that Harper is any better.
    As most of the deaths have been caused by IED’s it only makes sense to move by air. In the navy it used to be called common dog f**k.
    The excuse that Harper hasn’t had enough time is BS. He had enough time to buy a bunch of used tanks, why not used hello’s.
    Dmorris you should not refere to or call these troups as kids, it’s insulting. In 1964 when I was 17 and standing sentury duty on the fo’c’s’le of Restigouche while at anchor at Famagusta, Cyprus I certainly did not think of myself as a “kid” and would have resented any one refering to me as one.

15. I agree with dmorris to the extent that I think the medieval savages of Afghanistan do not deserve a single drop of Canadian blood. However it is in our national interest to keep the Taliban and Al Qaeda on the run, and prevent them from ever again appropriating the resources of a nation state to wage their terrorist war against the West. And yes this may take 100 years and a steady stream of casualties. I believe the alternative is worse. The problem with advocates of withdrawal is they have no answer to this.
    Kathy Shaidle may be right. The day may come when we come to the conclusion that large swaths of the Islamic world must be wiped clean. However, today is not that day.

16. As a preface. I did a 9-month tour in Afghanistan and came back 14 Dec 07. I went outside the wire, fired my weapon at the enemy, I worked with the Dutch, English, US, Romanians and of course Canadians. I also worked with the ANA (Afghan National Army) and I had contact with the ANP (Afghan National Police).
    All the Afghans want is the ability to build their country back to what they had before the wars. They want to get the Taliban(which is seen as an agent of Pakistan) out so that they can have a functioning country. So the Afghans want us (NATO/Americans), to stay to help them fight off the Taliban (which is an outside force)until they (the Afghans) are strong enough to fight them off themselves. Pakistan, on the other hand, would not like to see Afghanistan prosper, because it would bring to light how ineffective their government is. Consider, India on one side of Pakistan’s border is flourishing (and improving the quality of life for all its citizens–Muslims and Hindus). If Afghanistan becomes strong enough to take care of its own needs, be peaceful enough to attract foreign investment and tourism…then the populace of Pakistan will turn on its government and demand the same thing. It’s a simple case of pulling other people down so that you don’t look as bad.
    ~~favill~~

17. Thanks for your service favill. People like you willing to go out and meet the business end of our policy decisions keep is all safe. Proud to have you.

18. Justthinkin, I have to laugh at your response when your orthodoxy is challenged. Lefty mind set?
    You don’t know me, and you make erroneous assumptions. I’m about as left wing as Myron Thompson.
    When 9-11 happened, my first reaction was “nuke the bastards”. Fortunately, I wasn’t in charge of the missiles. Then, when we committed troops to Afghanistan, I was in total support, although outraged that our men went over there in the wrong camouflage uniforms, and no air support.
    I have supported the men and their mission ever since, but with Michael Yon’s report that we may have to commit to Afghanistan for 100 years, my reaction is “Enough”! Every mission has to end, and it’s time we wrapped this one up. We should stick to Stephen Harper’s withdrawal date.
    Taming Afghanistan has been tried in the past, it hasn’t worked.And I very much doubt it’s going to work this time around. Democracy is OUR way, developed over hundreds of years, and now we’re trying to sell it to a tribal society, and expect them to see the wisdom of this system in only a few years.
    We can’t even sell the idea at home anymore, and we have half the populace embracing socialism/environmentalism, in a well civilized and educated society that should know better.
    Where do you get the idea that I’m not aware of the dangers of radical Islam? Someone makes a statement you disagree with, so they become “evil incarnate,left wing”? Good Christ, man, broaden your horizons and accept that everyone who doesn’t agree with you isn’t “the enemy”.
    I frequent many conservative blogs, and I see a great deal of support for the troops when they’re on their mission, but never a mention of the problems that occur afterward, like PTSD, and nary a mention of the support they receive from our government.There was a case last year, soldier returned from Af’stan, and he was having readjustment problems(to put it in newspeak) and apart from one short article in the MSM, not a mention of it. What happenes to these guys, how good is the support now?
    What about the families of soldiers killed, are they fully supported by the Canadian government? This Country has a rather sordid history of sweeping ex-soldiers under the rug when the fighting’s over, and I hope to hell it isn’t happening again.We owe those soldiers, and we owe their families when they fall.
    JT, take a deep breath, and THINK! There is a lot more to this or any other mission than slavishly repeating “I support the troops”. Some of us support them by recognizing they’ve performed magnificently, and deserve the chance to come home, and maybe be redeployed to their families for a change.

19. dmorris,
    The reason we’re in Afghanistan in the first place is because there were people using it as a base to train to attack western civilization. We’re now there occupying the ground so they can’t. If western forces leave Afghanistan, do you suppose that won’t embolden those forces? Won’t that send a message that the west is indeed a paper tiger? If we leave Afghanistan to Al Qaida and the Taliban, that will tell the world that they succeeded, and that we can’t beat them. There is only one course in this war, and that course is victory. It might well take 100 years to sort this out, but if we leave now, the same thing will happen that happened last time Afghanistan we left fallow, it’ll be used as a training base to attack our own soil. It’s naive to think that we can just leave them to their devices and they’ll leave us alone.

20. And my apologies to anyone who is offended by my use of the term, “kids”. I mean absolutely NO disrespect.
    It’s just that I look at the casualties on TV and the papers, and so many of them just look SO young.

21. Canadian soldiers might not be kids, but I live near a British training center, and believe me, they ARE kids. Lots of them look to be around 16. It makes me want to cry when I think they’re headed to Iraq.

22. “One thing is certain: NATO is proving largely worthless.”~Michael Yon
    I’m not sure what he means by this. Isn’t NATO running the whole show? Is he referring to problems in the chain of command, or problems with non-US NATO forces, or what?

23. Good responsible and interesting comments by favill and CanuckInMI.
    I happen to live in Whitby and I sometimes go to a nearby Pizza Nova the street. There is an Afghan refugee who works there – I think this guy has moved up to be the head pizza maker. I talk to this head pizza guy all the time. He is probably not indicative of most Afghans – because he is pretty literate (he picked up English pretty well – and get this – he’s trying to understand hockey). His accent is distinctly not Pakistani or Indian. Anyway, he is a Muslim, he worries about his family in Afghanistan and all that. He just wants peace and freedom for Afghanistan and he can readily see the difference between what we have here and what they don’t have there.
    I actually believe in the Bush thing – All people, no matter their religion, have an innate longing for freedom. Once they taste freedom there is no going back.
    I don’t know how long it will take but I do think that a ‘surge’ in Afghanistan will work because it is a matter of holding ground long enough for freedom to become entrenched. Like Iraq, there have probably been several mistakes made. I also think that there is some kind of support for the taliban and al-quaeda coming out of the Pakistan Military and pressure needs to be applied to Pakistan to stamp this out.

24. I believe that Michael Yon is referring to the members of NATO who do NOT fight. There are a lot of soldiers and airplanes in Afghanistan–however the heavy lifting is being done by the US, UK, Canada and to some extent the Dutch. The rest of the NATO allies stay out of hunting down the Taliban and killing them. So when the bad guys run away from us (the fighters) and go to another province under the control of the non-fighters it’s almost like they’ve crossed into the safe zone. If, however, our NATO allies were waiting at the egress points as they came across and whacked them…it would be a totally different story–with a lot less Taliban survivors. You see most of the young men the Taliban recruit are unemployed Afghans, who want to make enough money to pay the dowry so they can get married (it always boils down to sex with these young guys…lol). If the survival rate is really low for the recruits…then it gets harder for the Taliban to recruit and they’d have to spend a whack load of money to get the unemployed Afghans to join them (not the cost of a cell phone with credits or a motorbike with gas) and the Afghans are pretty savvy…they won’t do anything unless you pay them first.
    ~~favill~~

25. “It’s naive to think that we can just leave them to their devices and they’ll leave us alone.”
    Yes,it certainly is. My original post was about Michael Yon’s comment that we may have to stay in Afghasnistan for 100 years, and I cannot accept that we have to send Canadian soldiers to a Country few of us have any connection to whatsoever.
    If we must fight a war, as I’ve said before, do it right, with the “observers” safely out of the way, while the troops do their job.
    This war has been so preoccupied with politics, we even had the Supreme Court of Canada pondering a decision as to whether Taliban prisoners were covered under Canada’s famous Charter!
    If someone wants Canada to send troops to Israel for the next 100 or 1000 years, i have no problem with that. Israel is the home of the religions which are the foundation of our Country, and Jews and Christiana alike have contributed rather substantially to the growth of our Nation.
    The same can’t be said of Afghanistan. Our soldiers went over there, did their jobs well, in spite of logistical problems, and deserve the chance to come home.
    I truly hope Harper sticks to his withdrawal plans, enough of this bloody(literally) backwater.
    And if they attack us again, maybe it’s time to “cleanse the Earth with holy fire”, as Jerry Falwell once suggested.

26. Canadians fighting in afghanistan for a hundred years? dream on. I’m not a pacifist but Afghan’s have never attacked Canada, liberating people from an occupying force(holland from the nazis for example) also doesn’t apply, the Afghan leaders are corrupt, don’t respect western based human rights, if this are reasons to invade and change a countries government and their culture(good luck) there a dozens of countries we could go to war with.
    Canada should only go to war if war is declared against us by a nation state or war is declared against an ally. I know many of you nuts consider Bin Laden a country or whatever but 9/11 was just another terror attack by a independent small group(as shocking as it was to see) and the reaction by Pres Bush was exactly what Bin dead for awhile(my theory) wanted.