Mr. Stelmach and Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall scuttled any hope of a unified cap-and-trade program, making it clear they consider the policy a thinly disguised attempt to share in the billions generated by western oil and gas.
“There’s only one inter-regional transfer of wealth in this country and it’s called equalization,” Mr. Stelmach said. “There won’t be another one from the province of Alberta. And that’s as straight an answer as I can give.”
Well, we’ll see. Hopefully, someone has Peter “The Great Capitulator” Loughheed locked up somewhere far from Stelmach’s ear.
Meanwhile, there’s a half-decent game of “spot the weasel words” in the story itself – for example:
Mr. Wall and Mr. Stelmach cast aspersions on the viability of cap-and-trade … Saskatchewan is home to a CCS project that claims to have saved 10 million tons of CO2 …
… and what the hell are “green credentials”?
Mr. McGuinty has dialed down his expectations — saying beforehand that a consensus is unlikely — while at the same time shoring up his green credentials…
And bonus points if you can spot the scare quotes!
Meaning “fight” is a metaphor for something else? Or, that they don’t really mean it?
(And remember: Ontario has a manufacturing “industry”, the West has oil “riches”.)
Gawd, I love Ottawa “journalism”.
Maz2
No Liberano Troll here my friend.
Worked on my first election when I was 12 for Dick Calver, leader of the Sask. Conservatives back in the 70’s. Jumped to the Reform in 88 and was against the formation of the Alliance and ultimately the CPC. Too many red tories for my liking. Love SH and I feel he would make an excellent President of the Republic of Western Canada. I would love to see the Sask Party move a little more to the right, too many former Liberals in the fold though. It will take some time to weed them out.
Cheers
simple.
green credentials = greenbacks for ontario.
Mr. Stelmach and Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall scuttled any hope of a unified cap-and-trade program
I should hope so. They would be stupid to do otherwise.
There is no AGW; there isn’t even, unfortunately, any global warming at present.
Swill @8.34
There are far too many liberals in Canaa. We cannot launch a progrom agains them. e must just demostrate that libralism = death and rightnes is, well, right.
Seriously, the Canadian establishment elite is “liberal” and we need to stick with what little we have to slowly undermine it.
I think that anyone, or organization, that extracts CO2 from the atmosphere should be hauled up before some UN court for crimes against nature.
CO2 is a fertilizer.
People at the time of Turdeau and Lougheed didn’t do their homework and see that Pink Peter and Pinker Peeair were “educated by the exact same commies at Harvard and London school of “Economics” They were both screaming lefties and Lougheed left us here in Alberta a big debt and handed us a braindead quarterback who Rae-ed Charest=ed and Maginty-ed us into massive debt. It took an uneducated pisstank to realize you can’t keep drinking when your wallet is empty. Some legacy for higher education when Ralph knew more than the enlightened ones. If these theiving Lieberals and useless eastern Premiers think we will be the town bike again they could find a different reception, I will NOT return to the eighties again.
From other discussions where a Western separatist reaction to NEP 2 has arisen I have noted that eastern and liberal reaction has generally be derisive of the idea, angry that it is even considered and consistently contemptuous of Western discontent with being the object of a cash raid to benefit the “National Purposes” of the eastern liberal compact.
Given that attitude, I expect that if M. Dion does become PM and actually follows through with a platform (a rare occurrence for a Liberal)the shock and horror at referendums om separation being strongly endorsed will be something to behold.
I have little doubt that such a referendum in those circumstances would pass and given the fact that we cannot afford not to separate would astound the arrogant and the blind. Most people that I have discussed this very issue with in my part of Saskatchewan are not willing to see our economy ravaged to sustain the economies in the east and buy liberal votes. Separation, and separation quickly, are usually seen as the only legitemate response in those circumstances.
Before they are over the shock the deed would be done and Canada would be history. The rapid dissolution of the ties that feed Ontario and Quebec would be accomplished before there manufacturing economy can even think about having to compete on world markets to sell any of their goods into the west without the protections that have created and enforced for themselves within Canada.
The simple truth of the matter is that the east has nothing that can not be obtained elsewhere is necessary and sometimes at significantly better prices. The West doesn’t need the east.
[quote]No mention in the article that the Territorial leaders are also against it.[/quote]
Stan,
You picked up on the Wild card! If the west goes so does the North… Re-draw that Map & the US Congress will welcome the New States…The North needs a US commitment & investment…
JMO
“Viva Le Western Canada”
Republic of Western Canada. Has a nice ring to it! And just think, no more:
Canadian Human Rights Commission
Peter Pansbridge and Kneel MacDonald
Judge made law from the bad santa suits
Canadian Wheat Board
Order of Canada
Justin Turd-o
Jack Layton
Lizzie May
The McSquinty Brothers: Dullton and Doughhead
Ryerson University
Mama Khadr and the toxic spawn
Gilles Duceppe
Steffi Dion and the Green Shi*t
Unfortunately there’s still the Suzuki Foundation, Ralph Goodale and the provincial HRCs but we can get working on those.
One would hope that if the liberals got in and implemented this, the first people to be laid off by the Alberta oil patch companies would be those from the east.
That would leave fewer non Albertans around to vote in any referendum.
Oh my Kate – now look at what you started.
heh.
That kind of journalism really is weak. Lots of weasel words.
“they consider the policy a thinly disguised attempt to share”
Sharing must be initiated by the giver. When the receiver forces the event, the proper word is “steal” or “seize”.
The author needs a dictionary.
Give the West a real voice, support the PQ. After they go West is easy.
Notwithstanding the cheering crowd for Alberta (and SK) Independence, I am somewhat skeptical about the idea happening. Although I am in favour of the concept and the practice of Independence, I am not convinced that NEP2 will be a strong enough incentive for a sufficient majority of Albertans to decide to form a country.
Whereas I would prefer to be proven wrong in my conclusion, here are a few reasons to support the “thesis”.
Although I believe That Mr. Manning would have made a better PM that Mr. Harper, I do not mind saying that I am more than just a little pleased with the overall performance of the current PM – even when considering some of his less-than-wise decisions. The “scary” and “hidden” agenda has failed to materialize; he really is quite tame as a PM. The members of the CPC provide a rather strong bench compared to the opposition(s). I also feel that the current CPC has slightly more in common with the Mulroney PC’s (while acknowledging differences) than with the Manning Reformers.
Yet in spite of the very mild nature of the current CPC, they are often referred to as “hard right” by their detractors. The public has had over 2 years to examine the government and to discover the “hidden” agenda and yet the perception continues. When one further considers the leadership capabilities of Harper vs. Dion one would expect a significant gap between the support for each of the two parties, one would only expect the current support levels if the CPC had a mediocre leader of if the Liberals had a Leader that could excite the Liberal base.
When one further considers the character and efforts of Mr. Manning to explain proposed consitutional changes to the “East” that “the West wants in” and the effect that his efforts had, one is left with the obvious conclusion that the inequalities in the country caused by a not-well-thought-out Constitution are, nonetheless, desired by many in Canada.
Equalization. Let us suppose how Equalization might work if Canada were operated as a democracy of equal state actors and Alberta decided that it
wanted to continue the same amounts. A comparison could be made to the IMF. When a country that has followed poor economic policies needs help from another state, the giving state(s) attach conditions to the monies that are donated. If Equalization were to operate in an even remotely similar fashion, Alberta should have the economic and legal clout to demand that some of the unwise policies other provinces are currently following be recinded. When one further considers the amounts that the IMF helps out a troubled nation and compares it to the amount the Alberta contributes to Equalization, one must conclude the the receiving provinces are in more economic trouble than some of the poorest countries in the world and that Alberta is even more generous that a collection of several countries all-inclusive. Surely the provinces are not in such a state, yet Albertans continue to participate in Equalization without a complaint and without a demand that it be operated as an Alberta Monetary Fund with all the conditions that she should have to attach to said monies.
If these collective circumstances yield the level of support for Independence at its current levels, it is difficult to guarantee that NEP2 will increase the support level to a sufficient amount to enable its execution.
I further add that the Liberals are probably aware of most or all of this and are preparing their policies knowing full well that the policies will cause an increase in resentment in the West but not much else. I would like to be wrong, but I think the Liberals will try this given the opportunity.
If a Liberal government tried to slap Alberta and Saskatchewan with carbon taxes ala the “Green Shaft” or some variant, and both of them didn’t tell the rest of Canada to get stuffed, they would either be the most altruistic decent Canadians ever born or stupid beyond all comprehension.
Bob in Toronto
Bob summarizes my post…..
Brent, you are wrong, and Stelmach is not f…ing around when he says what he said to the teat sucking easterners. I happen to know that this time around if the eastern inbred liberal voters are the victors, it will be swift and decisive when NEP2 is implemented. Maybe for you younger ones who think Dion is groovy with his limp wrist and pantywaist ideas to rob my hard work again like Turd-O, you think it is no big deal, well talk to someone older than 45 and find out what no work and a huge mortgage is like, remember motgage is from the latin term meaning death grip, wait till you have a 350,000 one with no work. Thank god these idiot lieberals are not in power, but if Ontario wants failure and votes these theives in remember , all the steel for pipelines, all the trucks all the machinery all the tires etc come from Ontario, vote lieberal at your own peril.
I believe I said that I would like to be wrong. However, NEP1 caused a 35%-45% drop in Calgary real estate betweeen 1981 and 1985. Many foreclosures. Oil industry employment went from ~160,000 to ~70,000 in the province over the next decade – this was only partly a cause of NEP1 as the 1986 $34-> $10 per barrel was a big cause of the employment shift.
There were many people in Alberta who hated NEP1 at the time; there was some support for Independence at the time – just not enough. Perhaps this time there will be enough; yet it is also possible that the main outcome of a NEP2 will cause Albertans to shout at Liberals a decade later: just wait till NEP3 – we’ll really mean it next time.
As someone said earlier on this blog, the the real question is, why have we stayed so long?
It’s the numbers, electoral numbers, that are against any meaning full change that would see the West as an equal partner in Confederation. These numbers dictate that we will always be subservient to our eastern electoral masters. You can put all the money and head offices you want in Calgary and we will still be controlled by the east. If anyone thinks that anything reasonable is going to happen that will shift the balance of power, or even give equal power to the West, give your head a shake. Remember one thing, POWER IS TAKEN NOT GIVEN. There is no way in hell the east, Ont/Que, will ever relinquish their control. No way.
What is still puzzling is how few of both Liberals and MSM have actually read Dion’s Green Shaft program – They don’t seem to realize that there’s nothing in it about the environment. Nothing.
ET, you keep repeating that and sound like a broken record.
Keep repeating it until it sinks in.
PiperPaul
Lots of weasel words
That’s the point of the concept: how subtle, but meaningful words/adjectives (which are often un-noticed as slanting to one side) get quietly entered into a story.
I agree with an earlier post. We in the West have over stayed our welcome. Time to leave. As long as we stay in Confederation we will always be dictated to by Ontario and Quebec. Personally, I’ve seen enough Quebec Prime Ministers to last me a life time. I’ve listened to enough eastern politicians to last me a life time. Canada was an experiment that never worked. Well, not for the west anyway.
Long live The Western Republic.
What I find absolutely hilarious about the eastern guys getting upset about Western Canada blowing this popstand of Crooked Liberal bureaucracy called Ottawa, is that our very good friends in Quebec have succeeded in getting the specific legitimate process of withdrawing from Canada laid out in law.
Its called the Clarity Act.
There aren’t many older Canadians around, outside of Quebec and Ontario, who did not believe that the arrogant Mr Trudeau would cause the eventual breakup of Canada.
But most wrongly thought it would be Quebec that left.
Don’t ya just love surprise endings?
It has come down to emotional responses in this post. Western Separatist’s are looking at very short term solutions.
1] – When the West separates, which provinces are going to vote. AB, Sask, NWT, Yukon, Man, and BC.
2] – Lets take these as a set for the vote.
3]
a]- AB. Mostly straight up, hard working with an attitude.
b]- Sask. Mostly straight up, hard working and gaining an attitude with every day that Wall leads them.
c]- NWT. Mostly hard working with support from Southern provinces. Strictly run by Federal services. Northern Indians and Inuit hold a resource income that is controlled from Federal levels. See very small percentage with attitude, more with socialist attitude wanting there world handed to them on a plate and very little work.
d]- Yukon. Same as NWT.
e]- Man. Small percentage with attitude. Used to be a leading province in farming, same as Sask until the NDP were elected time and time again. They seems to be a small percentage of population supporting and paying for a much large populations problems.
f] BC. Small percentage with attitude, much larger population in SW corner of BC that are feeding off the rest of provinces resources to be a just socialite’s society.
4] Now lets vote. We win in the West. Now lets get all our people together and set this deal out.
a]- Debt: last time I payed attention to it, was over 640 Billion dollars.
b]- Police Force: Unknown?
c]- Medicare: Keep throwing money at it so it keeps absorbing over 40% of our resource money.
d]- Government services: are these people the only ones with their guaranteed pensions, because as it is they are.
e]- Armed Forces: Should we outfit a new one or keep running the poorly funded forces as the are. When we get attacked from another source, can we send people in to be defending our new country with maybe guns, ammo, tanks, transporting equipment, ships, subs just to name a few from tinker toy land.
f]- Ports: [2] Vancouver or Churchill. Both run by the dreaded union. Still controlling shipping and making sure that the farming and industrial sectors pay these extraordinary wages, benefit’s and social workers, because their job is just to stressful.
g]- Trains: are we going to cut the train tracks off at the last province facing the East?
h]- Immigration?????
These are just to name a few. If the West separates, where is the plan to look after these few basic services. I have lived in AB all my life, worked in the Northern BC and NWT areas. Traveled to US and Mexico. My political view is very limited.
Since 1964 the rest of Canada has been catering to Ontario’s and Quebec’s major population and now Vancouver. I really think that it is about time it stopped. If they want to be the center of attention; F*cking Great, Cool, Right on people.
Canada should have a vote from all provinces with one question. DO YOU WANT THESE PEOPLE IN CANADA. I bet their would be a vast majority that would vote no.
On the upside… nobody in the New GREAT Republic of Western Canada will give a flying f**k what anyone east of the Manitoba border thinks, no matter what language they think (or don’t) in. French will be reduced to the dying language that it is, the CHRC will be sometihing that Ontario and Quebec will have to live with, and Carbon Tax will be something that is paid to OIL PRODUCERS (sk mb ab) by OIL CONSUMERS(on,qc,nb,ns,pei,nl.)
Live long and prosper……
cool man….
Before I start…Merle Underwood is an Eastern Canadian IDIOT! No reply, no defence, his.her whole argument is BULL SH*T.
NOW, for this crap!
“I further add that the Liberals are probably aware of most or all of this and are preparing their policies knowing full well that the policies will cause an increase in resentment in the West but not much else. I would like to be wrong, but I think the Liberals will try this given the opportunity.”
All of the above in quotes may be true, please someone call Ralph Goodale and confirm. His website is still going on about “conservative lies”. Ralph knows he’s about to retire, he just hasn’t realized that he doesn’t have a choice. I recommend that all of you do what I have done, send Ralph a “congratulations on your retirement” card. His constituency office is readilly available, sorry I don’t have it at hand. This is a GREAT message to send though…
Posted by: Bart at July 18, 2008 6:53 PM
Before I start…Merle Underwood is an Eastern Canadian IDIOT! No reply, no defence, his.her whole argument is BULL SH*T.
Well Bart, I have been called many things but never an Eastern Canadian Idiot. I was born in AB and have lived there my entire life.
I think that I created a scenerio for people at least to think about instead of screaming [we should seperate] and telling the rest of them to F-themselves.