Special thanks to Richard Evans for putting this together. The original, full length version is here.
95 Replies to “We Invite You To Form Your Own Judgement”
It seldom pays to be rude… but it NEVER pays to be only half rude.
GO EZRA!!!
Are you serious, tomax, in your “let’s all be nice” criticism of Ezra? (I was disappointed, to say the least, when I realized this Pollyanna post was by you.)
Ezra is, quite rightly, passionate about this issue–how un-Canadian–and I say all power to him.
I am a man who can occasionally get carried away in a debate, raise my voice, talk faster and faster, get my blood pressure up with my face all red, etc…and it never has helped me score points.
In fact the opposite is true.
those who are sitting on the fence on the debate tend to turn away from the one who looks out of control and/or agressive.
I think Ezra Levant should try to remain calm, just as I think Mark Steyn should have also remained calm at the TVO debate.
Those two men are brilliant, very articulate and are virtually walking encyclopedias on the topics they defend.
An occasional and short “emotional reaction” is ok here and there but I think the sheer weight of the evidence those two have is enough to shred to pieces their opponents.
…yep, as the post heading says, ‘form your own judgement’, so I do hope I am entitled to one on here.
I got more from the three people asking questions than all of Ezra’s ranting and finger pointing.
Passionate is one thing, theatrics is another.
…yep, as the post heading says, ‘form your own judgement’, so I do hope I am entitled to one on here.
I got more from the three people asking questions than all of Ezra’s ranting and finger pointing.
Passionate is one thing, theatrics is another.
…whoops! Sorry for the double post. Got a new imac and learning Safari doesn’t work like Firefox…
I guess it’s a matter of perception. I’m always turned off when I see someone getting red in the face and angry, like they’re losing control of their senses, but I don’t see Ezra that way at all. I’m not even sure what people are looking at. He’s good natured, he’s high-spirited, but he’s truth-telling. He’s saying in effect, “This is incredible. This guy is straight-faced lying to you.” Seems to me that he acts like it’s funny more than mad.
We’re long overdo for calling out those who social climb and suck g-tit so they can rule the rest of us without justification. I’ve seen a million talking heads engaging with those who nominally and only by some definition “oppose” them or “keep them accountable” or “ask the tough questions,” but both sides are just playing the game, like that’s the point, and trying to dissolve all considerations in process and elevate themselves by demonstrating that they’ve mastered the protocol of endless minutiae-grinding.
Nobody gives a shit. But when Ezra talks, the reaction is more “wow, listen to what he’s saying — he really means it. Naw….is that actually true, what he just said?” Then Ezra’s shows people, now interested, that it is.
If someone officio-crat thinks he can get away with covering up the truth by acting offended when it’s exposed, the last thing anybody needs is for others to be offended for him as well.
Ezra is trying to bring attention to something that is absolutely critical to our legacy and to the future of this country. We do not want to lose this country to faceless lefto-crats, and if we’re going to stop that, we need fighters. I wish there was fifty Ezras.
I can’t see how Ezra would be making a better case, or convincing more of these unseen fence sitters by acting like every other winky-winky “we’re all buds when all is said and done,” craven, establishment-climbing professional bus/gov-networker ***holes.
Some people have deeply subducted within themselves a fear, not completely ungrounded, that they won’t get ahead if they don’t cooperate. That might even be the vast majority. But we should appreciate, not criticize, those who say “screw that, this is about the truth.” That very attitude, regardless of one’s demeanor, is a violation to the would-be embedded rulers the Libs have salted throughout our institutions.
One word “PATHETIC” people of Canada, please, get a hold of your MP and implore them, de-fund the Canadian Human Rights Commission!!!
…well said EBD and while I agree about the perception angle – isn’t what this whole thing is about – public perception?
While some are moved by the emotion and showmanship of Ezra, beware that emotions come and go as the tide.
Point in case – I can recall questions people at the mic asked and how Mr. Fine’s reaction and deflection of the questions gave him away.
That will stay with me a long time.
Now ask me what Ezra ranted about for 10 minutes and all I can recall is ‘nigger’ being said a lot of times and something about Nazi’s.
Ezra was too polite
the fundamental right to freedom of speech is under attack by a group of very evil fascists
Canadians should be screaming mad at these threats to our most basic freedoms
yet some of you thought Ezra was too emotional or impolite or he didn’t conduct himself professionally or some such nonsense?
Ezra was fu*#in’ brilliant – nobody understands this issue like Ezra
Ezra is to be applauded and supported not criticized because he raised his fu*#in’ voice
“these people” are trying to fu*# every Canadian by making conservative opinion a crime
and the fact that our CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT is allowing this to happen in a democracy makes me sick….
there, is that emotional enough for you?
I understand what you’re saying tomax7. It’s true, people can perceive the same event differently. Personally, though I’m not moved by his showmanship (if I was susceptible to showmanship I’d be moved, rather than disturbed, by the platinum oratory of Obama) but by his perseverance and the — to me — utter correctness of the position he’s fighting for. And frankly I doubt I’ll ever meet someone who’d say “you know, I totally disagree with Ezra Levant’s position, but I love-love-love his showmanship!”
When I think of showmanship I think of a situation where someone is selling the sizzle and not the steak. Ezra’s actually the opposite of that — he’s the butcher who pulls out the beef and — slam — puts it on the table — and says (in effect) “let’s stop talking what it might or might not be, and let’s actually *look* at it.” He invites everyone to look as carefully and as closely as they want…and to cradle it gently in their hands.
There may be a little P.T. Barnum in him but it’s not as if he gets people to walk through the proverbial gates and then walks away; it’s more of a “now that you’re here, let me give you the largely covered-up or elided — critical information.
Would people enter the proverbial gates, to get informed, if he were just another typical gracious Canadian I have my doubts. When you look at the people who’ve got the ball rolling on the critical, no-joke issues — Mark Steyn, Kate, Ezra Levant and others, there’s nary a good little altar boy in the bunch.
IMO, in Canada we’re suffering now in certain regards from the dearth in the past 30 or 40 years of people who are noisy and stubborn about telling the truth. I guess it’s a given that when those people appear, a lot of people won’t like them.
Sorry, I was at a function and could not comment further.
I totally understand people’s anger, frustration, and desire to scream at people like Fine and his ilk.
I think that without Ezra we would be nowhere in this battle.
I merely wish to make the point that to win over the rest of the nation we need to take it past “you liar”. We need a “one two” combination. The hard hit, and the calm reasoned approach. The bad cop and the good cop.
There is a really good post by By Dalwhinnie in Barrelstrength today. http://www.barrelstrength.com/2008/06/04/our-laws-schools-versus-steyn-and-levant/
The point is that the enemies of freedom have achieved their much of their success through the calm AND UNOPPOSED proposition of ideas that have wormed their way into the mainstream, for example a seemingly boring and highly academic essay entitled “Private Regulation and Public Policy: Toward effective restriction of Internet hate Propaganda”.
We need to penetrate that same space, not just rant at it from the outside.
“You’re free to poke the dog with a stick.
You’re free to cry “Unfair!” when the dog takes your arm off at the shoulder.
You’re not free to have your protest taken seriously by anyone.”
I’m glad Ezra and Steyn are our pitbulls.
My Judgement – the truth does not lie Mr. Fine…and what Mr. Levant read and than you have the audacity to say you can form your own judgement. No, that is what the Kangaroo Courts do. In the real world, the truth matters and our judgement is….You guys owe a lot of people money for all their legal fees and time.
Mr Fine is a lying bag of pig shit. Its that simple
and I don’t want these people fired, I want them JAILED !
Lori – you think Ezra was rude and not polite enough? Ohmigosh, Canada is in worse shape than I thought. Not one of you would survive 15 minutes in New York City – he wasn’t being rude, he was being forceful, forthright, honest, and plain spoken. Those are all pluses for most people.
Now that’s believable reality TV with excitment. Ezra did a Fine job so to speak.
We all know who is really behind the HRC. Their targets are let you know there bias.
.
Ezra, savant, and exclamation Mark could be very rich in a few years; the resource material must fill thousands of pages.
In this confrontation, Ezra was brilliant, and amazingly restrained. Sure he was angry, but terror-wimp Fine was internally unhinged. He obviously needed a fast intervenous drip to unstick his mandibles. In fact, I had the impression Fine might have been suffering from some subconscious acknowledgment of common sense from the other two.
The oddest thing is that these turkeys are so consistently buffoons, yet so inconsistent, contradictory, and effectively, evil. Maybe they think we’ll all die laughing ourselves to death.
Canada needs to be a place fired CHRCs would be reluctant to visit.
The debate demonstrates very effectively that multi-culti is a very real threat, certainly to real justice in Canada.
One look at the Bill Mahr sloped forehead on this Ian Finnes asshole and his cluttered rebuttals says this neanderthal is not long out of the trees. The forehead tells one about the amount of brains in there, too bad for you leftie Ian?
Ezra’s got a right to be a little hot. He’s been dragged through the mud by the HRC’s.
As for Keith Martin, color me completely unipressed. Very poor speaker, very poor at communicating his thoughts, and apparently little more that a basic knowledge of the history of the systemic abuses of the HRC’s.
More and more it looks to me like a bit of safe political opportunism by Mr. Martin. He can’t lose.
If this does not gain significant traction beyond what it has, he melts back into the background. If it does he’s crowned with the mantle of the man who stood up in Parliament and exposed the HRC’s for the star chambers they have become.
For a guy who started his political career as a Reform MP, and ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance, he has had plent of lib red running through his veins over the years when it has been convenient to do so. His running as a Lib when the Libs seemed ascendant is a good example of this (any true Reformer would never cross the aisle).
Theres really no downside for Mr. Martin here. As a Lib he can table his motion against the HRC’s with no blowback from the media. (just imagine if the same motion was tabled by a Conservative).
After hearing him on CKNW and on this video, I really am suspect as to his agenda on this.
Why it took a letter from a constituent to alert him to the abuses of the HRC’s is damning. As a politically astute individual with a right leaning background this should have been high on his radar. But it wasn’t until now.
Could it be that Mr. Martin now sees the Libs as a sinking ship and wants to get his conservative bona fides back?
While this may have helped shine the light on the abuses perpetrated by HRC’s, and it is welcome, I don’t think that Mr. Martins actions were (or are) particularly altruistic.
It is Canada’s politeness that allows terrorist, murderers and child rapist to walk free amongst us. It is Canada’s politeness that has us bending over to be reamed by any nutjob group with a whacked out ideology. It is Canada’s politness that usurps our identity, and makes us weak. To hell with politness. We are dealing with people who look upon us as weak prey. It is best for Ezra and Steyn to go for the throat.
We all know who is really behind the HRC. Their targets are let you know there bias.
Posted by: Bob H at June 5, 2008 1:18 AM
_____________________________
Could you please elaborate Bob?
Lori, you must believe in the old adage that you get more flies with honey, but it has been scientifically proven that if you rip their little wings off, they will eat anything.
Lori, you must believe in the old adage that you get more flies with honey, but it has been scientifically proven that if you rip their little wings off, they will eat anything.
Sorry Ward, your attack on Keith Martin is misguided. http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=490323
Since he retiring from federal politics, the notion that this is some sort of opportunism is absurd.
He left the CA because of principled disagreements about social issues. Fiscally, and on some key social issues, he is clearly a Conservative. But regardless of what party he belong so, few politicians in parliament are regarded as having as much integrity as him.
He is a genuine person, not a professional politician. I guess you mistake that for a lack of conviction. I’d say he had a lot more conviction than the 99% of the CPC who have said nothing on the matter at this point.
Partisan politics will not solve the HRC mess.
Honey Pot. Actually, I think the good cop bad cop strategy is the single most effective tactic in this type of situation.
Here’s today’s National Post take on the HRCs and where our CPC is on this matter: http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=565219
To quote:
“But sources within the government suggest Mr. Nicholson may not have undergone quite the Damascene conversion on the issue that Mr. Martin supposes. One Conservative suggested the Justice Minister is in thrall to his departmental bureaucrats, who do not support overturning Section 13. According to this version of events, Mr. Nicholson has eased pressure within caucus by authorizing a review of the act but has managed to delay action by referring it to a dysfunctional committee that hasn’t met in months and isn’t likely to convene again until well into the fall.”
Would that be an example of a “principled” CPC member, Ward?
“With greatest respect, I disagree strongly with the views of Lori and Sheila G regarding Ezra’s putative over-the-top aggression. Personally, I am sick of the Canadian and very catholic notion of tolerance and respect that took us to this revolting process in Vancouver…” (EBD)
I also respectfully disagree with people who say ‘turn the other cheek and let things be’ type mentality. At times, however, prudence and wisdom are called for when the slight or problem is based on a subjective view of something; however, it’s not called for when it’s about a God-given right that is being threatened.
I agree with EBD of being tired of the “Canadian” niceness, which is good in itself, but not when you tolerate error. However, and this is where some clarification is needed, the “real and traditional” catholic (not sure if he/she meant the religion or the meaning of the word catholic as universal but I will go with the religion) notion is to fight for your God-given freedoms until the death. The notion of tolerance is a very new and “modern” idea in the Catholic Church, one which most traditional Catholics do not believe. Respect for the person is tantamount; tolerance of their error is not. Unfortunately that’s not what you hear out there.
I appreciate very much that Ezra is out there fighting for me, and I am most indebted to him for it.
I should have added “…to the death – if need be”.
Okay, I see now that Kathy has put it up on her website that I said Ezra was too rude, which I did NOT! I said Ezra was doing a great job rallying the troops, and the rest of us now have to do our jobs. I didn’t say Ezra should change one bit.
But, I stand with Lori that we need to tread carefully. Of course we all hate the fact that Canada is wimpy. Of course we would like to just let out all this crap that’s inside us that’s been enraging us for years. But that’s not how things get done.
Letters to MPs which are respectful but firm, and state that this is an issue upon which we will be voting, are very effective. Letters that are filled with expletives or rants are not. The office just assumes you’re a lunatic or a fringe element, and they know fringe elements don’t convince anyone of anything. A strong, principled, articulate letter on the other hand makes people sit up and notice.
It’s the same thing when we’re speaking to people. Ultimately 95% of Canada doesn’t really think about the issues. The way they decide what politics they want to support is to decide WHO THEY WANT TO BE LIKE. They go for the Liberals because they are cool and people like them. (I know they’re not really cool, but that’s the perception). The media is all Liberal, and Canadians like to fit in. Young people go for the Green Party because it makes them feel like rebels.
We’re only going to get people coming to the Conservative side (assuming the Conservatives are the ones who take Keith Martin’s baton and run with it) by showing people that they want to be like US–principled, consistent, honest, and even fun.
So by all means crack some jokes. But if we come across as angry bigots (I know we’re not the bigots, but it’s perception we’re talking about here), then people aren’t going to want to be like us. And that’s how we make all political decisions in Canada. We need to come across as fun, with the times, and modern. We can do this because the facts are on our side. So it shouldn’t be a burden.
And for the umpteenth time, I’m not saying Ezra should cool down (though on his blog he admitted himself that he wished he had turned the tone down a little that day). We need him as OUR emotional outlet. But then let’s get back to doing the work of reasonably convincing everybody else.
Yelling at other Canadians that they’re letting bigots take over the country is just going to make you look like a freak. It doesn’t matter where the facts actually lie, that’s not how you convince someone. It’s as simple as that.
Lori, it is my belief that the Hrc’s would not even exist, if Canadians were not cowards, and had spoken up against them with passion in the first place. There is no logical reason to exhibit a thimble full of respect to the hrc’s, or their horde of left-lib minions.
The hrc’s must be dismantled in a rude fierce way, as to ensure they can never be formed again and used as tool of the left-libs to control media, and information.
Okay, I see now that Kathy has put it up on her website that I said Ezra was too rude, which I did NOT! I said Ezra was doing a great job rallying the troops, and the rest of us now have to do our jobs. I didn’t say Ezra should change one bit.
But, I stand with Lori that we need to tread carefully. Of course we all hate the fact that Canada is wimpy. Of course we would like to just let out all this crap that’s inside us that’s been enraging us for years. But that’s not how things get done.
Letters to MPs which are respectful but firm, and state that this is an issue upon which we will be voting, are very effective. Letters that are filled with expletives or rants are not. The office just assumes you’re a lunatic or a fringe element, and they know fringe elements don’t convince anyone of anything. A strong, principled, articulate letter on the other hand makes people sit up and notice.
It’s the same thing when we’re speaking to people. Ultimately 95% of Canada doesn’t really think about the issues. The way they decide what politics they want to support is to decide WHO THEY WANT TO BE LIKE. They go for the Liberals because they are cool and people like them. (I know they’re not really cool, but that’s the perception). The media is all Liberal, and Canadians like to fit in. Young people go for the Green Party because it makes them feel like rebels.
We’re only going to get people coming to the Conservative side (assuming the Conservatives are the ones who take Keith Martin’s baton and run with it) by showing people that they want to be like US–principled, consistent, honest, and even fun.
So by all means crack some jokes. But if we come across as angry bigots (I know we’re not the bigots, but it’s perception we’re talking about here), then people aren’t going to want to be like us. And that’s how we make all political decisions in Canada. We need to come across as fun, with the times, and modern. We can do this because the facts are on our side. So it shouldn’t be a burden.
And for the umpteenth time, I’m not saying Ezra should cool down (though on his blog he admitted himself that he wished he had turned the tone down a little that day). We need him as OUR emotional outlet. But then let’s get back to doing the work of reasonably convincing everybody else.
Yelling at other Canadians that they’re letting bigots take over the country is just going to make you look like a freak. It doesn’t matter where the facts actually lie, that’s not how you convince someone. It’s as simple as that.
Sorry for the double post! I got a note on the computer saying it hadn’t gone through. Should have checked first.
Elizabeth, EBD, and everyone else, I’ve no issue with respectful disagreement.
We are all the same side. It’s a question of tactics and of multi-pronged assaults on a well-entrenched and powerful enemy.
I’ve been part of this HRC thing for longer than most. Ezra has my full support and several hundred dollars of my money. I’m trying to figure out a way to get to see him in Toronto so I can shake his hand.
There is the Bar Association meeting on June 16, or the IdeaCity meeting June 19 in Toronto. The second one is bizarre. It’s disgraceful that they stuck him in the “Potpourri” session with the “7 fingers acrobatic spectacle”, the Inuit Art/Film pioneer, and the Origami Master. WTF? http://www.ideacityonline.com/08-agenda.html
(day 2, session 5)
There is one tactic I would suggest to Steyn and Ezra, to get the attention of the Canadian public, because the msm is ignoring this historical event.
I would suggest they moon the hrc tribunal judges, and their koranic clowns.
Nothing like a good mooning to catch the attention of the public.
SheilaG. I didn’t see your post before making min. I think you’ve stated it better than I did. Thanks.
Fine, Warman and the rest of these miscreants do not deserve any respect. Ezra is not over the top. There isn’t any apparent malice on his part. Lampooning the fool and liar, Fine, seems to be Ezra’s style. Publicly flogging him with factual evidence, until the villan is laid bare for all to see.
I also agree with others that the typical Canadian ‘niceness’ must not apply to the human rust that is eating Canada from within.
Lori: He has said he will retire after the next election, which says to me he will run in it. After that perhaps he will reassess.
Remarkable piece that you linked to re Mr. Martin. I fully expected it to end with him walking on water. Honestly, I don’t think I have ever seen as long and complimentary piece on any other MP.
As for him leaving the CA over social issues, that illustrates my point. CA was further left than the Reform was on social issues. This Party should have been more to Mr. Martins liking that the Reform – where he began his political career. Why would you run for the leadership of a Party if you did not like what it stood for.
I can think of another person who did the same thing – Belinda Stronach – and used the same excuse when she left it.
I have watched Mr. Martin throughout his career, and in my opinion he is a political opportunist.
I agree that partisan politics will not solve this mess. So where are all of the Lib MP’s who should be lining up behind Mr. Martin?
As I said before its easy for Mr. Martin to do what he is doing. There is no downside for him, and the media will, instead of criticizing him for “being against human rights”, lionize him for exposing the faults of the HRC’s, and he knows it. (your linked article is a great example of the pedastal that is being built for him to stand upon)
When he stands up and starts calling his own Party and its leadership out on this issue, I will give him more leway.
Until then my concerns will remain in place.
Isn’t it entrapment if you post a bunch of crap, to get other people to post other crap, then charge them for their posting of said crap?
Geez. Justice, North Korea style, coming to an Alberta HRC near you.
By the way, it’s all fine and good to blast them for being a bunch of jackbooting punks, but how, politically, can anyone really do anything about these guys?
If Harper moves to slam these HRC’s, suddenly, once again, he’s a big racist bigot, a part of the big racist bigoted Conservative party, that wants troops in our cities with guns, and to deport all immigrants, be afraid, very afraid, we didn’t make this up, drumroll… Choose Your Canada.
Harper won’t touch this with a 10 foot pole, even though he should.
Terminate all Canadian Human Rights Commissions right now. Where is the Conservative government on this matter? Disband them all! Keep up the fight Ezra.
Meany ,Harper could easily thank liberal member what’s name who has a bill to rip up sec 13.
He can praise the co-operation blah blah blah of the esteemed liberal collegue and back his bill.
Cake, baby!
The arrogance of the HRC twit was sickening.
Until the Federal MP’s and Provincial MLA’s show the intestinal fortitude to take the dictatorial power away from these kangaroo courts or even disband the HRC’s and subsequent HRT’s bullying by section 13, et al, will never stop.
It seldom pays to be rude… but it NEVER pays to be only half rude.
GO EZRA!!!
Are you serious, tomax, in your “let’s all be nice” criticism of Ezra? (I was disappointed, to say the least, when I realized this Pollyanna post was by you.)
Ezra is, quite rightly, passionate about this issue–how un-Canadian–and I say all power to him.
I am a man who can occasionally get carried away in a debate, raise my voice, talk faster and faster, get my blood pressure up with my face all red, etc…and it never has helped me score points.
In fact the opposite is true.
those who are sitting on the fence on the debate tend to turn away from the one who looks out of control and/or agressive.
I think Ezra Levant should try to remain calm, just as I think Mark Steyn should have also remained calm at the TVO debate.
Those two men are brilliant, very articulate and are virtually walking encyclopedias on the topics they defend.
An occasional and short “emotional reaction” is ok here and there but I think the sheer weight of the evidence those two have is enough to shred to pieces their opponents.
…yep, as the post heading says, ‘form your own judgement’, so I do hope I am entitled to one on here.
I got more from the three people asking questions than all of Ezra’s ranting and finger pointing.
Passionate is one thing, theatrics is another.
…yep, as the post heading says, ‘form your own judgement’, so I do hope I am entitled to one on here.
I got more from the three people asking questions than all of Ezra’s ranting and finger pointing.
Passionate is one thing, theatrics is another.
…whoops! Sorry for the double post. Got a new imac and learning Safari doesn’t work like Firefox…
I guess it’s a matter of perception. I’m always turned off when I see someone getting red in the face and angry, like they’re losing control of their senses, but I don’t see Ezra that way at all. I’m not even sure what people are looking at. He’s good natured, he’s high-spirited, but he’s truth-telling. He’s saying in effect, “This is incredible. This guy is straight-faced lying to you.” Seems to me that he acts like it’s funny more than mad.
We’re long overdo for calling out those who social climb and suck g-tit so they can rule the rest of us without justification. I’ve seen a million talking heads engaging with those who nominally and only by some definition “oppose” them or “keep them accountable” or “ask the tough questions,” but both sides are just playing the game, like that’s the point, and trying to dissolve all considerations in process and elevate themselves by demonstrating that they’ve mastered the protocol of endless minutiae-grinding.
Nobody gives a shit. But when Ezra talks, the reaction is more “wow, listen to what he’s saying — he really means it. Naw….is that actually true, what he just said?” Then Ezra’s shows people, now interested, that it is.
If someone officio-crat thinks he can get away with covering up the truth by acting offended when it’s exposed, the last thing anybody needs is for others to be offended for him as well.
Ezra is trying to bring attention to something that is absolutely critical to our legacy and to the future of this country. We do not want to lose this country to faceless lefto-crats, and if we’re going to stop that, we need fighters. I wish there was fifty Ezras.
I can’t see how Ezra would be making a better case, or convincing more of these unseen fence sitters by acting like every other winky-winky “we’re all buds when all is said and done,” craven, establishment-climbing professional bus/gov-networker ***holes.
Some people have deeply subducted within themselves a fear, not completely ungrounded, that they won’t get ahead if they don’t cooperate. That might even be the vast majority. But we should appreciate, not criticize, those who say “screw that, this is about the truth.” That very attitude, regardless of one’s demeanor, is a violation to the would-be embedded rulers the Libs have salted throughout our institutions.
One word “PATHETIC” people of Canada, please, get a hold of your MP and implore them, de-fund the Canadian Human Rights Commission!!!
…well said EBD and while I agree about the perception angle – isn’t what this whole thing is about – public perception?
While some are moved by the emotion and showmanship of Ezra, beware that emotions come and go as the tide.
Point in case – I can recall questions people at the mic asked and how Mr. Fine’s reaction and deflection of the questions gave him away.
That will stay with me a long time.
Now ask me what Ezra ranted about for 10 minutes and all I can recall is ‘nigger’ being said a lot of times and something about Nazi’s.
Ezra was too polite
the fundamental right to freedom of speech is under attack by a group of very evil fascists
Canadians should be screaming mad at these threats to our most basic freedoms
yet some of you thought Ezra was too emotional or impolite or he didn’t conduct himself professionally or some such nonsense?
Ezra was fu*#in’ brilliant – nobody understands this issue like Ezra
Ezra is to be applauded and supported not criticized because he raised his fu*#in’ voice
“these people” are trying to fu*# every Canadian by making conservative opinion a crime
and the fact that our CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT is allowing this to happen in a democracy makes me sick….
there, is that emotional enough for you?
I understand what you’re saying tomax7. It’s true, people can perceive the same event differently. Personally, though I’m not moved by his showmanship (if I was susceptible to showmanship I’d be moved, rather than disturbed, by the platinum oratory of Obama) but by his perseverance and the — to me — utter correctness of the position he’s fighting for. And frankly I doubt I’ll ever meet someone who’d say “you know, I totally disagree with Ezra Levant’s position, but I love-love-love his showmanship!”
When I think of showmanship I think of a situation where someone is selling the sizzle and not the steak. Ezra’s actually the opposite of that — he’s the butcher who pulls out the beef and — slam — puts it on the table — and says (in effect) “let’s stop talking what it might or might not be, and let’s actually *look* at it.” He invites everyone to look as carefully and as closely as they want…and to cradle it gently in their hands.
There may be a little P.T. Barnum in him but it’s not as if he gets people to walk through the proverbial gates and then walks away; it’s more of a “now that you’re here, let me give you the largely covered-up or elided — critical information.
Would people enter the proverbial gates, to get informed, if he were just another typical gracious Canadian I have my doubts. When you look at the people who’ve got the ball rolling on the critical, no-joke issues — Mark Steyn, Kate, Ezra Levant and others, there’s nary a good little altar boy in the bunch.
IMO, in Canada we’re suffering now in certain regards from the dearth in the past 30 or 40 years of people who are noisy and stubborn about telling the truth. I guess it’s a given that when those people appear, a lot of people won’t like them.
Sorry, I was at a function and could not comment further.
I totally understand people’s anger, frustration, and desire to scream at people like Fine and his ilk.
I think that without Ezra we would be nowhere in this battle.
I merely wish to make the point that to win over the rest of the nation we need to take it past “you liar”. We need a “one two” combination. The hard hit, and the calm reasoned approach. The bad cop and the good cop.
There is a really good post by By Dalwhinnie in Barrelstrength today.
http://www.barrelstrength.com/2008/06/04/our-laws-schools-versus-steyn-and-levant/
The point is that the enemies of freedom have achieved their much of their success through the calm AND UNOPPOSED proposition of ideas that have wormed their way into the mainstream, for example a seemingly boring and highly academic essay entitled “Private Regulation and Public Policy: Toward effective restriction of Internet hate Propaganda”.
We need to penetrate that same space, not just rant at it from the outside.
“You’re free to poke the dog with a stick.
You’re free to cry “Unfair!” when the dog takes your arm off at the shoulder.
You’re not free to have your protest taken seriously by anyone.”
I’m glad Ezra and Steyn are our pitbulls.
My Judgement – the truth does not lie Mr. Fine…and what Mr. Levant read and than you have the audacity to say you can form your own judgement. No, that is what the Kangaroo Courts do. In the real world, the truth matters and our judgement is….You guys owe a lot of people money for all their legal fees and time.
Mr Fine is a lying bag of pig shit. Its that simple
and I don’t want these people fired, I want them JAILED !
Lori – you think Ezra was rude and not polite enough? Ohmigosh, Canada is in worse shape than I thought. Not one of you would survive 15 minutes in New York City – he wasn’t being rude, he was being forceful, forthright, honest, and plain spoken. Those are all pluses for most people.
Now that’s believable reality TV with excitment. Ezra did a Fine job so to speak.
We all know who is really behind the HRC. Their targets are let you know there bias.
.
Ezra, savant, and exclamation Mark could be very rich in a few years; the resource material must fill thousands of pages.
In this confrontation, Ezra was brilliant, and amazingly restrained. Sure he was angry, but terror-wimp Fine was internally unhinged. He obviously needed a fast intervenous drip to unstick his mandibles. In fact, I had the impression Fine might have been suffering from some subconscious acknowledgment of common sense from the other two.
The oddest thing is that these turkeys are so consistently buffoons, yet so inconsistent, contradictory, and effectively, evil. Maybe they think we’ll all die laughing ourselves to death.
Canada needs to be a place fired CHRCs would be reluctant to visit.
The debate demonstrates very effectively that multi-culti is a very real threat, certainly to real justice in Canada.
One look at the Bill Mahr sloped forehead on this Ian Finnes asshole and his cluttered rebuttals says this neanderthal is not long out of the trees. The forehead tells one about the amount of brains in there, too bad for you leftie Ian?
Ezra’s got a right to be a little hot. He’s been dragged through the mud by the HRC’s.
As for Keith Martin, color me completely unipressed. Very poor speaker, very poor at communicating his thoughts, and apparently little more that a basic knowledge of the history of the systemic abuses of the HRC’s.
More and more it looks to me like a bit of safe political opportunism by Mr. Martin. He can’t lose.
If this does not gain significant traction beyond what it has, he melts back into the background. If it does he’s crowned with the mantle of the man who stood up in Parliament and exposed the HRC’s for the star chambers they have become.
For a guy who started his political career as a Reform MP, and ran for the leadership of the Canadian Alliance, he has had plent of lib red running through his veins over the years when it has been convenient to do so. His running as a Lib when the Libs seemed ascendant is a good example of this (any true Reformer would never cross the aisle).
Theres really no downside for Mr. Martin here. As a Lib he can table his motion against the HRC’s with no blowback from the media. (just imagine if the same motion was tabled by a Conservative).
After hearing him on CKNW and on this video, I really am suspect as to his agenda on this.
Why it took a letter from a constituent to alert him to the abuses of the HRC’s is damning. As a politically astute individual with a right leaning background this should have been high on his radar. But it wasn’t until now.
Could it be that Mr. Martin now sees the Libs as a sinking ship and wants to get his conservative bona fides back?
While this may have helped shine the light on the abuses perpetrated by HRC’s, and it is welcome, I don’t think that Mr. Martins actions were (or are) particularly altruistic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHPX10xzlMc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69-X-59Z0BY&watch_response
Did anybody else catch these vids from RADIOFREECANADA1 which were in the video comments to Riochard Evans video?
Absolutely hilarious. Whomever you are that was great. I have the biggest smile on my face right now.
freedom is not free
It is Canada’s politeness that allows terrorist, murderers and child rapist to walk free amongst us. It is Canada’s politeness that has us bending over to be reamed by any nutjob group with a whacked out ideology. It is Canada’s politness that usurps our identity, and makes us weak. To hell with politness. We are dealing with people who look upon us as weak prey. It is best for Ezra and Steyn to go for the throat.
We all know who is really behind the HRC. Their targets are let you know there bias.
Posted by: Bob H at June 5, 2008 1:18 AM
_____________________________
Could you please elaborate Bob?
Lori, you must believe in the old adage that you get more flies with honey, but it has been scientifically proven that if you rip their little wings off, they will eat anything.
Lori, you must believe in the old adage that you get more flies with honey, but it has been scientifically proven that if you rip their little wings off, they will eat anything.
Sorry Ward, your attack on Keith Martin is misguided.
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=490323
Since he retiring from federal politics, the notion that this is some sort of opportunism is absurd.
He left the CA because of principled disagreements about social issues. Fiscally, and on some key social issues, he is clearly a Conservative. But regardless of what party he belong so, few politicians in parliament are regarded as having as much integrity as him.
He is a genuine person, not a professional politician. I guess you mistake that for a lack of conviction. I’d say he had a lot more conviction than the 99% of the CPC who have said nothing on the matter at this point.
Partisan politics will not solve the HRC mess.
Honey Pot. Actually, I think the good cop bad cop strategy is the single most effective tactic in this type of situation.
Here’s today’s National Post take on the HRCs and where our CPC is on this matter:
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=565219
To quote:
“But sources within the government suggest Mr. Nicholson may not have undergone quite the Damascene conversion on the issue that Mr. Martin supposes. One Conservative suggested the Justice Minister is in thrall to his departmental bureaucrats, who do not support overturning Section 13. According to this version of events, Mr. Nicholson has eased pressure within caucus by authorizing a review of the act but has managed to delay action by referring it to a dysfunctional committee that hasn’t met in months and isn’t likely to convene again until well into the fall.”
Would that be an example of a “principled” CPC member, Ward?
“With greatest respect, I disagree strongly with the views of Lori and Sheila G regarding Ezra’s putative over-the-top aggression. Personally, I am sick of the Canadian and very catholic notion of tolerance and respect that took us to this revolting process in Vancouver…” (EBD)
I also respectfully disagree with people who say ‘turn the other cheek and let things be’ type mentality. At times, however, prudence and wisdom are called for when the slight or problem is based on a subjective view of something; however, it’s not called for when it’s about a God-given right that is being threatened.
I agree with EBD of being tired of the “Canadian” niceness, which is good in itself, but not when you tolerate error. However, and this is where some clarification is needed, the “real and traditional” catholic (not sure if he/she meant the religion or the meaning of the word catholic as universal but I will go with the religion) notion is to fight for your God-given freedoms until the death. The notion of tolerance is a very new and “modern” idea in the Catholic Church, one which most traditional Catholics do not believe. Respect for the person is tantamount; tolerance of their error is not. Unfortunately that’s not what you hear out there.
I appreciate very much that Ezra is out there fighting for me, and I am most indebted to him for it.
I should have added “…to the death – if need be”.
Okay, I see now that Kathy has put it up on her website that I said Ezra was too rude, which I did NOT! I said Ezra was doing a great job rallying the troops, and the rest of us now have to do our jobs. I didn’t say Ezra should change one bit.
But, I stand with Lori that we need to tread carefully. Of course we all hate the fact that Canada is wimpy. Of course we would like to just let out all this crap that’s inside us that’s been enraging us for years. But that’s not how things get done.
Letters to MPs which are respectful but firm, and state that this is an issue upon which we will be voting, are very effective. Letters that are filled with expletives or rants are not. The office just assumes you’re a lunatic or a fringe element, and they know fringe elements don’t convince anyone of anything. A strong, principled, articulate letter on the other hand makes people sit up and notice.
It’s the same thing when we’re speaking to people. Ultimately 95% of Canada doesn’t really think about the issues. The way they decide what politics they want to support is to decide WHO THEY WANT TO BE LIKE. They go for the Liberals because they are cool and people like them. (I know they’re not really cool, but that’s the perception). The media is all Liberal, and Canadians like to fit in. Young people go for the Green Party because it makes them feel like rebels.
We’re only going to get people coming to the Conservative side (assuming the Conservatives are the ones who take Keith Martin’s baton and run with it) by showing people that they want to be like US–principled, consistent, honest, and even fun.
So by all means crack some jokes. But if we come across as angry bigots (I know we’re not the bigots, but it’s perception we’re talking about here), then people aren’t going to want to be like us. And that’s how we make all political decisions in Canada. We need to come across as fun, with the times, and modern. We can do this because the facts are on our side. So it shouldn’t be a burden.
And for the umpteenth time, I’m not saying Ezra should cool down (though on his blog he admitted himself that he wished he had turned the tone down a little that day). We need him as OUR emotional outlet. But then let’s get back to doing the work of reasonably convincing everybody else.
Yelling at other Canadians that they’re letting bigots take over the country is just going to make you look like a freak. It doesn’t matter where the facts actually lie, that’s not how you convince someone. It’s as simple as that.
Lori, it is my belief that the Hrc’s would not even exist, if Canadians were not cowards, and had spoken up against them with passion in the first place. There is no logical reason to exhibit a thimble full of respect to the hrc’s, or their horde of left-lib minions.
The hrc’s must be dismantled in a rude fierce way, as to ensure they can never be formed again and used as tool of the left-libs to control media, and information.
Okay, I see now that Kathy has put it up on her website that I said Ezra was too rude, which I did NOT! I said Ezra was doing a great job rallying the troops, and the rest of us now have to do our jobs. I didn’t say Ezra should change one bit.
But, I stand with Lori that we need to tread carefully. Of course we all hate the fact that Canada is wimpy. Of course we would like to just let out all this crap that’s inside us that’s been enraging us for years. But that’s not how things get done.
Letters to MPs which are respectful but firm, and state that this is an issue upon which we will be voting, are very effective. Letters that are filled with expletives or rants are not. The office just assumes you’re a lunatic or a fringe element, and they know fringe elements don’t convince anyone of anything. A strong, principled, articulate letter on the other hand makes people sit up and notice.
It’s the same thing when we’re speaking to people. Ultimately 95% of Canada doesn’t really think about the issues. The way they decide what politics they want to support is to decide WHO THEY WANT TO BE LIKE. They go for the Liberals because they are cool and people like them. (I know they’re not really cool, but that’s the perception). The media is all Liberal, and Canadians like to fit in. Young people go for the Green Party because it makes them feel like rebels.
We’re only going to get people coming to the Conservative side (assuming the Conservatives are the ones who take Keith Martin’s baton and run with it) by showing people that they want to be like US–principled, consistent, honest, and even fun.
So by all means crack some jokes. But if we come across as angry bigots (I know we’re not the bigots, but it’s perception we’re talking about here), then people aren’t going to want to be like us. And that’s how we make all political decisions in Canada. We need to come across as fun, with the times, and modern. We can do this because the facts are on our side. So it shouldn’t be a burden.
And for the umpteenth time, I’m not saying Ezra should cool down (though on his blog he admitted himself that he wished he had turned the tone down a little that day). We need him as OUR emotional outlet. But then let’s get back to doing the work of reasonably convincing everybody else.
Yelling at other Canadians that they’re letting bigots take over the country is just going to make you look like a freak. It doesn’t matter where the facts actually lie, that’s not how you convince someone. It’s as simple as that.
Sorry for the double post! I got a note on the computer saying it hadn’t gone through. Should have checked first.
Elizabeth, EBD, and everyone else, I’ve no issue with respectful disagreement.
We are all the same side. It’s a question of tactics and of multi-pronged assaults on a well-entrenched and powerful enemy.
I’ve been part of this HRC thing for longer than most. Ezra has my full support and several hundred dollars of my money. I’m trying to figure out a way to get to see him in Toronto so I can shake his hand.
There is the Bar Association meeting on June 16, or the IdeaCity meeting June 19 in Toronto. The second one is bizarre. It’s disgraceful that they stuck him in the “Potpourri” session with the “7 fingers acrobatic spectacle”, the Inuit Art/Film pioneer, and the Origami Master. WTF?
http://www.ideacityonline.com/08-agenda.html
(day 2, session 5)
There is one tactic I would suggest to Steyn and Ezra, to get the attention of the Canadian public, because the msm is ignoring this historical event.
I would suggest they moon the hrc tribunal judges, and their koranic clowns.
Nothing like a good mooning to catch the attention of the public.
SheilaG. I didn’t see your post before making min. I think you’ve stated it better than I did. Thanks.
Fine, Warman and the rest of these miscreants do not deserve any respect. Ezra is not over the top. There isn’t any apparent malice on his part. Lampooning the fool and liar, Fine, seems to be Ezra’s style. Publicly flogging him with factual evidence, until the villan is laid bare for all to see.
I also agree with others that the typical Canadian ‘niceness’ must not apply to the human rust that is eating Canada from within.
Lori: He has said he will retire after the next election, which says to me he will run in it. After that perhaps he will reassess.
Remarkable piece that you linked to re Mr. Martin. I fully expected it to end with him walking on water. Honestly, I don’t think I have ever seen as long and complimentary piece on any other MP.
As for him leaving the CA over social issues, that illustrates my point. CA was further left than the Reform was on social issues. This Party should have been more to Mr. Martins liking that the Reform – where he began his political career. Why would you run for the leadership of a Party if you did not like what it stood for.
I can think of another person who did the same thing – Belinda Stronach – and used the same excuse when she left it.
I have watched Mr. Martin throughout his career, and in my opinion he is a political opportunist.
I agree that partisan politics will not solve this mess. So where are all of the Lib MP’s who should be lining up behind Mr. Martin?
As I said before its easy for Mr. Martin to do what he is doing. There is no downside for him, and the media will, instead of criticizing him for “being against human rights”, lionize him for exposing the faults of the HRC’s, and he knows it. (your linked article is a great example of the pedastal that is being built for him to stand upon)
When he stands up and starts calling his own Party and its leadership out on this issue, I will give him more leway.
Until then my concerns will remain in place.
Isn’t it entrapment if you post a bunch of crap, to get other people to post other crap, then charge them for their posting of said crap?
Geez. Justice, North Korea style, coming to an Alberta HRC near you.
By the way, it’s all fine and good to blast them for being a bunch of jackbooting punks, but how, politically, can anyone really do anything about these guys?
If Harper moves to slam these HRC’s, suddenly, once again, he’s a big racist bigot, a part of the big racist bigoted Conservative party, that wants troops in our cities with guns, and to deport all immigrants, be afraid, very afraid, we didn’t make this up, drumroll… Choose Your Canada.
Harper won’t touch this with a 10 foot pole, even though he should.
Terminate all Canadian Human Rights Commissions right now. Where is the Conservative government on this matter? Disband them all! Keep up the fight Ezra.
Meany ,Harper could easily thank liberal member what’s name who has a bill to rip up sec 13.
He can praise the co-operation blah blah blah of the esteemed liberal collegue and back his bill.
Cake, baby!
The arrogance of the HRC twit was sickening.
Until the Federal MP’s and Provincial MLA’s show the intestinal fortitude to take the dictatorial power away from these kangaroo courts or even disband the HRC’s and subsequent HRT’s bullying by section 13, et al, will never stop.