Mr. & Mrs. Mohammed El Mohammed Wish To Announce A Bouncing Baby Boy!

160 Replies to “Mr. & Mrs. Mohammed El Mohammed Wish To Announce A Bouncing Baby Boy!”

1. “Goodness gracious Kate, one of your devotees actually requested permission to address me. You are very powerful. Why do I post here? I oppose Kate’s world view, that’s why. Is this rocket science to you graduates of SDA High?
   You agree with Kate’s POV, I don’t. Pretty simple.”
   Posted by: Johnny Maudlin at May 2, 2008 12:08 AM
   Johnny;
   I agree with Kate’s pov, and further, I can not understand how you can justify this kind of ritual. I suppose you are also behind the ritual of female genital mutiliation, practiced by many
   of your heros on the African continent.
   Madman

2. “Leftists do not judge the act, they judge by whom is doing it. They are the supreme bigots. -Friend of the USA”
   Ditto the right-wing, especially when the actions come from those who the right has sympathy for. Come to think of it, there’s not much discussion of the bizzare catholic rituals in America, you know, the ones that involve boys. Didn’t the Pope just give a speech about that. And of course, it was duly ignored, because those acts don’t nearly compare to this one, eh?
   I am not a religious man at all,
   but seriously to call that a ritual is really absurd.
   It is everything but a ritual.
   The fact we completely disaprove of those acts compared to you completely defending tossing toddlers from 50 foot building illustrates my point,
   when people ” on our side” ( white, westerner, catholic, conservative et cetera..) are wrong we do not deny it,
   we condemn what they did,
   but when people “on your side” ( colored, non-westerner, non-catholic, liberal et cetera…) do something wrong you contort like a pretzel to find some justification.
   I can find you hundreds of liberals approving of the most bizarre immoral and illegal things,
   But you can not find me one conservative who approves of catholic priests abusing little boys.
   nice try.

3. Madman: whoa there, Trigger! Slow down. That’s a leap, isn’t it? Bouncing off a sheet and female genital mutilation? I think the former is basically harmless and the later is horrifying barbarianism (if there is such a word…)

4. Madman: hold on there, Trigger! That’s one hell of a leap. I think bouncing a baby off a sheet is basically harmless and female genital mutilation is a horrifying example of tribalism beyond the pale.

5. Your assertion is simply false, my Pigeon friend; but thanks for playing.
   Criticism, however strongly felt, is hardly tantamount to government censorship. I constantly hear hypocritical Libs trying to sell this goofy fallacy.
   Today any speech, which merely hurts someone’s feelings, is a “hate crime” punishable by the government of Canada.
   If that is the sort of fascism you support, then perhaps “progressives” should be renamed “regressives”, since y’all want to regress back to the pre-Enlightenment days of the Spanish inquisition.

6. LOL defensive person said:
   Call people names (Bird brain pigeon), accuse them of insanity, intellectual laziness etc.
   Learn from the lefty. At the very least, at least she accepts facts, which is a redeeming trait missing in a lot of people here.
   Oh I forgot. LDD knows ALL the facts. From here, no doubt.
   Posted by: Friend of Pigeons at May 2, 2008 4:35 PM
   May be cherry picking here, but the facts are a baby, well many babies are being endangered unnecessarily so, it’s obvious it’s a CULTURE thing…gheeesh, you people need to take yourselves way less seriously!
   But this is just a gem…
   “Learn from lefty she at least accepts facts??”
   WHO’S FACTS??
   Just because so and so said so? So now ‘she’/’he’ says so and it’s fact?
   Huh?
   Um, can’t you say NO to being brainwashed or is that just not acceptable behavior of whatever group you’ve heaped a bunch of us into?
   Or does ‘she’-leftie, at least check facts before accepting them as facts?
   Did I call you a name?

7. Jolly good, then.
   “when people ” on our side” ( white, westerner, catholic, conservative et cetera..) are wrong we do not deny it, we condemn what they did,”
   Really? Lets not restrict ourselves to the Catholic case – that was just thrown in there because it was in the news recently but did not register on this site (AT ALL).
   Where is the SDA post about circumcision and the trauma it can cause to male children? What do you have to say about it?
   What about the blatant rac-ism on this board. Bet it doesn’t exist in your eyes. Have you condemned it? Condemning “celibate” priests who engage in sod omy is hardly something to pat yourself on the back about. Can you bring yourself around to condemning those who work tirelessly to demonize others? Like SDA, which looks for anything and everything to denigrate Islam?
   “but when people “on your side” ( colored, non-westerner, non-catholic, liberal et cetera…) do something wrong you contort like a pretzel to find some justification.”
   Yes. The Justification is simple. Let them do it if they think its appropriate, and it doesn’t affect us in anyway. Its called freedom. Freedom to do what you want so long as it has no bearing on us. If you can turn away from circumcizing young children, why do all your compatriots here feel the need to judge this admittedly bizzare ritual?
   Which brings us to the question: what is the point of this thread? Here I will answer it simply – to denigrate Islam.
   “I can find you hundreds of liberals approving of the most bizarre immoral and illegal things,”
   I can find you hundreds of conservatives who think discrimination on the basis of race/gender/sexual orientation is okay. Or who think Pinochet is above criticism. But that is neither immoral nor illegal, right?
   “But you can not find me one conservative who approves of catholic priests abusing little boys.”
   Yes I can. All the merry numbers who defend the sanctity of the Catholic church even after it goes and does absurd things like this. I am pretty sure I can find you a mullah in Saudi, or indeed, India, who condemns this particular “Muslim” practice.
   But that is not the point is it?
   Rhetorical posturing is all fine and dandy, but don’t expect bold-sounding mundane questions to make you look smart.

8. ” the facts are a baby, well many babies are being endangered unnecessarily so, it’s obvious it’s a CULTURE thing”
   Yes I agree, babies are being endangered. Just like the babies who are circumcized. And the ones who are dunked in water. Where is your judgement about the cultures that carry out those?
   In all likelihood this is practiced by a small region based minority. But it is held up as proof of your cultural superiority over whoever is practicing this. It is not even clear who is practicing this. On this evidence, you would think everyone in India was tossing their child off roofs. The population growth rate tells us otherwise.
   “”Learn from lefty she at least accepts facts??”
   WHO’S FACTS??
   Just because so and so said so? So now ‘she’/’he’ says so and it’s fact?”
   “When confronted with facts and reason that she can’t refute her only response is,”yeah,I guess you are right”,”
   I think the “who”, would be you? Or does someone else have to confront her with facts in your presence?
   “Did I call you a name?”
   Yes, you did. I am friend of Pigeons. Not Bird brain pigeon. Shame on you.

9. Freedom Fan: you are playing games with the truth. You made this assertion; “…Today any speech, which merely hurts someone’s feelings, is a “hate crime” punishable by the government of Canada….” No, it’s not. Yet you make the statement as if it’s so…
   Friend of Pidgeon, you’ll find neither reasoned debate or a balance of perspectives at this site. You’ll find plenty of belligerence and name calling. And if you don’t like it, you’ll be reminded frequently, bugger off.
   As for me, unless banned, I am going nowhere. My presence here is an irritant. And this place needs lots of that. This place could use a full on enema. Now watch, Friend of Pidgeon, the kiddies come out and have a go at that one 😉

10. Can you bring yourself around to condemning those who work tirelessly to demonize others? Like SDA, which looks for anything and everything to denigrate Islam?
    -Friend of Pigeons

    Islam needs to be relentlessly ridiculed so it will reform or be discarded as a belief system, because Islam is a threat to vital Western values such as freedom.
    Because Islam is anti-West it is embraced by Leftists who find a common enemy.
    Through ignorance or design, the Left tries to sell the idea that attacking Islam is somehow tantamount to ‘racism’. That is simply false; Islam is just about everything except a race. Unfortunately people of all races practice Islam. Islam is a religious cult, an oppressive political system and a way of life which dictates every mundane aspect of daily existence down to which way to face when taking a dump on sir john.
    Similarly, Christianity is relentlessly ridiculed by the Left because it supports traditional values which they loathe, yet no one tries to pretend that those who attack Christianity are ‘racist’.
    The irony is that the success of Islamic shariah in the West would bring the swift demise of much of what the Left cherishes, such as separation of church and state, homosexuality, abortion, feminism, and personal liberties of every sort.
    This is happening in Europe through rapid demographic changes, as was shown in Mark Steyn’s book, America Alone, for which he is being prosecuted as a criminal by Canada’s insane ‘human rights’ commisars.
    The decadent Left is to enlightened civilization as the scorpion who catches a ride across the river on the head of a frog, yet decides to sting it to death. Both the host and rider drown.
    Be careful what you wish for, Liberals.

11. Like SDA, which looks for anything and everything to denigrate Islam?
    Islam denigrate itself all the time by what a lot of Muslim say and do, it does not need anyone’s help.
    we do not have to look for anything, new events happen every day,
    When polls reveal a large percentage of Muslims approve of terrorism,
    When Muslims walk the streets with signs reading
    ” behead those who insult Islam”
    When Muslims try to use the HRC to punish those who simply repeat an Imam’s words and simply expose Islam for what it is,
    When Muslims want to give barbaric physical punishment to an English teacher because she let children name a Teddy bear Mohamed
    When Muslims force a bank to stop giving away Piggy banks
    When Imams are caught preaching in Mosques the beating of women or terrorism
    When a hospital or airport in Europe has to remove all food vending machines during ramadan for fear it may trigger violence or even acts of terrorism from Muslims
    When Muslims force their wives and daughters to live under a tent
    When Muslims kill their daughter in an “honor” bizarre ritual
    When Muslims refuse to shake a journalist’s hand at a press conference because she is a woman
    When Muslims refuse to let Jewish people participate in an anti racism conference at the United nations
    When Manchester’s top imam told psychotherapist John Casson that he supported the death penalty for homosexuality.
    When the people who made the Mohamed cartoons have to hide because they received death treaths from Muslims
    When Muslims destroy millions of dollars of property simply because of cartoons published in a news paper
    When 40% of British Muslim want sharia law
    When a Brooklyn Imam named Shata doesn’t speak English, refuses to shake women’s hands, wants to forbid music, and supports Hamas and suicide bombing,
    When Iqbal Sacranie of the Muslim Council of Britain called for the death of Salman Rushdie,
    When after van Gogh’s murder, a Rotterdam artist drew a street mural featuring an angel and the words thou shalt not kill, police, fearing Muslim displeasure, destroyed the mural (and a videotape of its destruction).
    When St-George parade in Britain is cancelled for fear of violence from Muslims
    (and I could fill pages and pages with similar facts)
    when they do all this, they denigrate themselves.
    Small Dead Animals and other blogs of that type simply report events, facts about Islam, that is all they do.
    No need to add anything or to denigrate, the truth is enough.

12. You made this assertion; “…Today any speech, which merely hurts someone’s feelings, is a “hate crime” punishable by the government of Canada….” No, it’s not.
    -johnny maudlin

    Of course it is. Haven’t you read section 13 of the CHRA? If you don’t want to be called an idiot, then don’t act like one.

13. Madman: hold on there, Trigger! That’s one hell of a leap. I think bouncing a baby off a sheet is basically harmless and female genital mutilation is a horrifying example of tribalism beyond the pale.
    Posted by: Johnny Maudlin at May 2, 2008 6:58 PM
    My name is Madman not Trigger.
    You forgot to mention these idiots are dropping a child into a sheet from 15m. Now when I was a fireman we were told that this was a last resort exercise to save a life if there were no other options.
    Do they have first aid classes were you live?
    Madman

14. Thank you for proving my point that the raison d’etre of this board is to promote hatred of all things Muslim.
    “Small Dead Animals and other blogs of that type simply report events, facts about Islam, that is all they do.”
    And what do they/you achieve?
    An incestous little club of people who all crow louder and louder everytime Kate throws some meat in your direction. The end result – a hatred for all things Islam and Muslim.
    And if tommorrow the Muslim world were annihilated, there would be no sympathy for fellow man. No, they were just “Muslims”, subhumans who don’t deserve sympathy.
    You claim to be so superior to them. But take away the rituals, the practices, the myths, the beliefs, and what you have is two groups of human who loathe each other with equal venom.
    The beliefs may be different, but at the end of the day, the hatred is the same. You are indistinguishable from the one’s you oppose, because you share their despicable view of being the ‘superior’ ones in an unequal humanity. After all, humans cannot be equal, because then you, and the muslims you hate, would not be superior to the rest. And we can’t have that now, can we?

15. Yes, you did. I am friend of Pigeons. Not Bird brain pigeon. Shame on you.
    Posted by: Friend of Pigeon at May 2, 2008 8:23 PM
    Show your proof, otherwise you are a liar or unable to discern real facts, as I’ve already stated above.
    The rest of your babble can only be straightened out by a professional at this time and I can’t be bothered with you further.

16. Freedom Fan: you mean the section of the act that states hurting peoples feelings is a hate crime? The act says no such thing. If it does then quote the act, don’t offer your own way less than adequate interpretation.

17. This is an issue of child abuse and the frightened look on that baby’s face is disturbing. The group doing it, regardless of whether they are Indian and/or Muslim are backward, superstitious, and may I say without hurting anyone’s feelings, retarded.
    If the story didn’t say it took place in India at a mosque might have caused the rest of us to conclude that we were actually watching a group of Christians practicing some weird religious rite. We all know there are wing-nuts in the fringe Christian sects.
    But, then, if they were Christian, there wouldn’t be the same uproar from some of the posters here screaming that the rest of us are showing our prejudice against this particular benign cultural-religious group.
    None of them have shown any concern for the children, but that would be asking too much I think.

18. Pigeon Poop: You do know that it is possible to disagree with a philosophy or a religion without actually hating the holders of such a belief system don’t you?

19. And if tommorrow the Muslim world were annihilated, there would be no sympathy for fellow man. No, they were just “Muslims”, subhumans who don’t deserve sympathy.
    -Friend of Pigeons

    Conservatives care deeply about people with Muslim beliefs, who are the very first victims of Islam; women are at special risk.
    You have proly never heard of brave former Muslims like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan, who dare to speak out against the hell a woman often suffers living under the thumb of Islam. There is no escape: Under Islam the penalty for rejecting Islam is death.
    I also know that as a Lib you must pretend to actually care about people as you feed the pigeons, but you have no intention of actually learning any facts about Islam, much less ever joining people who speak out against this vicious theology and its stated goal of undermining enlightened Western civilization.
    I offer this with the full realization that as a Lib, you are proly incapable of comprehending the obvious fact a person’s beliefs are not the same as the person’s genetic code.

20. You are indistinguishable from the one’s you oppose
    Until you can come up with a list of things that makes us indistinguishable from the people who do what I provided in my partial list above, you can keep telling yourself fairy tales it they make you feel good, but you will not convince anyone.
    All you have is indignation and accusations, and no substance.
    You keep telling us we are wrong, but you can not tell us what is right about them.
    For example tell us what is so right and so great and so admirable about keeping your wife living under a tent?
    Don’t tell me I am a racist knuckle dragger, tell me what is so great and so right and so fantastic about keeping your wife living under a tent.
    You can’t.
    So I expect more accusations and more indignation but not one damn intelligent argument.

21. Friend of pigeons:
    Contrary to your inverted view of reality, SDA isn’t here to promote “hatred” against muslims; however, the facts speak for themselves.
    You ARE correct in one thing, although you don’t understand it: we DO believe our Western culture and standard of living superior to that of the middle east or islamic countries. They do too, apparently, and that’s why if you follow the immigration numbers you see a vast exodus from the M-E to the West, and empty boats bobbing hither and yon on the return leg back. Even your snide tone is illuminating; there is no “multiculturalism” in the 3rd world islamic countries that you so wholeheartedly admire: the “culture” is purely monocultural. Wonder why that is, eh? And why the muslims are leaving in droves to come here? So why is it “bigoted” or “hatred” to ask that these people try to assimilate to our culture and, you know, respect a little bit of free speech, or maybe not murder their teenage daughters for embracing a bit of the canuck culture?
    But that wouldn’t do, would it? Because in your lovely multicultural bubble, all cultures are equal, right?
    Except they aren’t. Just… follow the immigration numbers.
    At any rate, you might google “moral relevance” to try to understand your mental affliction, and a bit of decent psychotherapy might get you back on track. Maybe.
    BTW, as for “hatred” of muslims, you’ll find many conservatives didn’t really think badly of them until they decided to fly a couple of jetliners into some New York landmarks, and celebrate same on a worldwide basis. That was a rather telling moment for many of us.
    mhb23re
    at gmail d0t calm
    It’s you and your liberal ilk who insist on

22. I wouldn’t be too concerned with what the left think in this country. They are dead, or dying. Even fools like Johnny and Pidgeon realize that. Look what they have for leaders, dumb Dion and taliban Jack. Seriously does anyone think for a moment either of those two could organize a tupperware party?

23. “who dare to speak out against the hell a woman often suffers living under the thumb of Islam”
    This I think sums it up. This post sought this particular line. And Kate achieved it. Forget for a moment that this is some obscure group in the middle of India, whose ritual practices may have nothing to do with Islam.
    In the simplistic mindset that prevails here;
    Muslim throw baby. Muslim bad. Muslim bad. Muslim bad.
    And inevitably, I become an Islam defender, without having even the slightest regard for that religion. For the very simple reason that religion and human have become intertwined, and trying to protect the sanctity of the latter is intepreted as defending the former.
    Stop bunching together all the adherents of Islam, I say. Stop defending Islam, you say.
    “Contrary to your inverted view of reality, SDA isn’t here to promote “hatred” against muslims; however, the facts speak for themselves.”
    It isn’t? Then why is it so obsessed with Islam? Read the stuff said here. We know this thread isn’t about the child. Otherwise circumcision would have been a bigger deal. Or the Mormon teenage sleepfest. Those conveniently slip under the radar, inspite of Kate’s apparent love for children.
    No this is about sharpening the knive. As always. Another piece of meet. The same voices crow louder and louder. Some kind of bizzare battle-hysteria that best reveals itself in the frustrated name-calling that emerges here.
    No this site is not about promoting hatred towards Islam. It just keeps an eye out for any incriminating evidence. An eye that is dedicated solely to Islam, not to any other religion.
    “but you have no intention of actually learning any facts about Islam, much less ever joining people who speak out against this vicious theology”
    Great change comes from within, not without. Martin Luther was a religious Christian. Not a heretic.
    How are you helping? By standing on the sidelines and proclaiming all that is wrong with them? By giving them a reason to unite, the reason being that regardless of the changes they enact, you and your western civilization will see them as subhuman ‘muslims’, never equals. Because nothing can be equal.
    Its much easier sticking to the comfort of what you know than it is challenging an age old order. And that is without taking into account the open hatred people on the outside propagate. You know, the SDAs.
    I daresay that the west bashing sites are probably filled with people who parrot your language and have access to an intellectual capacity similar to yours.

24. “I daresay that the west bashing sites are probably filled with people who parrot your language and have access to an intellectual capacity similar to yours.”
    Well, there are sites like Ko’s whose intellectual capacity is similar to yours. You should visit it, if SDA gets you’re panties in such a knot.
    Believe me, your kind of mushy thinking falls right in line there.

25. Johnny girl isn’t going anywhere .He likes it here cause he craves attention.He thinks he’s an irritant according to him,kinda like a pooping pigeon.

26. Friend of pigeons,
    Ok ok we get it, you think we are bad people,
    but you still have not told us one single thing that makes living under an Islamic state (they have no separation of religion and state ) equal to living in a western democracy.
    Tell me, inform me, educate me,
    what is so equal that I should change my mind?
    Go ahead,
    tell me what is so equal.
    Tell me what makes it equal and if you have solid arguments I will change my mind.
    Seriously I will.
    I have changed my mind on few things along the years, but never because I was told I was a bad person.
    Telling me I am a bad person is no argument.
    What is so equal?

27. No proof eh, fop?
    Merit?
    Hm?
    A person with merit would apologies for their slanderous inaccurate comments.
    … yeah.

28. This site is about when you see or read anything do not jump to conclusion to Muslim are guilty or Islam are guilty for anybody do any crime or wrong doing for you to blame and generalize and judge us so quickly.
    I saw in news in newspaper page A16 Friday May 2, 2008 a question asked Mrs. CLinton for fighting her to win presidency of United stated
    the reporter asked Mrs. CLinton If Iran want to lunch atomic bomp against Isreal what you do with Iran and Mrs. clinton said “I want the Iranian to know that if i am the president we will attack Iran”
    Iran government protest Clinton comment inUN said
    “I wish to reitrrate mt government position thai the Islamic republic of Iran has no intention to attack any nation”
    WHne I read this news I as a Muslim come to this conclusion:
    UN are aware that first country did attack with nuclear weapon to other nation was United stated in example of Japan since United sated did crime they may do it again why UN are not stop all nuclear facility in United stated first. why we are look for unknow future if Iran want to attack Isreal why not look for live exampel the only country attack by Nuclear weapon and kill so many people were AMerican and second was German who sold nuclear and climical weapn to Iraqi Sadam Hossain to kill Iranian in year 1984 more than one million Iranian are died for trade of illlegal from German country selling nuclear and climical weapon to go and kill Iranina for no crime done from Iran or no attack was started from Iran to Iraq in 1982 war in Iran and Iraq therefore we leave criminal out and we look for made innocent look criminal Mrs. CLinton.
    Second, I blived all Jewish are innocent and play with international game of world to come to Isreal for heaven only got batred by rich Jewisn in United stated or Russia or other world pay to keep Isreal on by what cost to kill too many Jewish while the first intention of immigrant of Jeiwsh form Christian man Mr, Hitler while I do belve he was not blieve any relgion in sound he said I am chrisitan so as Sadam Hossain said I am Muslim while both in one eyes only were criminal and did worl crime therefor today Isreal are not used to give any benefit or any credit to jewih in world but also make them go and keep piece of land by murdering your neighbour this sound again racist not religion.
    may not sound may some fair if Jewish read my opinion but if you think I have small house and I aske some go to my neighbour and get him out of his hous only I plan to expand my house bigger this is sound now Isreal are built their land by take some other land and still bother then and abuse Muslim in Isreal.
    the question should asked Mrs. Clinton while she is lawyer and used to practice law before come to this stage in politic how she can reduce the conflcit in fair way in middle east among Isreali and Palastianian since after AMerica attack Japn and still keep their nuclear weapn shile they must stop or world wathc and inspect USA more thant other country in the smae sclale of judgment how Mrs. CLinton can made Isreal safe place for Jewish and Muslim to leave togetehr nd not kill each otehr that is wish even Jeiwh l ike to have is security and safty in world but again if Jewish look for safty and security since Christian Hitler bother them and did crime agaisnt them did not give toole to they do the same crime against Muslim as well.
    is like some one say you kill my father I come and kill your all innocent people in revenge if you believ soem one born as Muslim or Jewihs or Christina is not commit any sin to born from mother then you can not without any seen of crime from otehr side you go and even arret the person and even made judment before hand
    then in talk in order to mad muslim look less aggresive I believe North american are not familer with correct dialoge or communication with Muslim the way they talk mad Muslim feel frusterad and get angry and again I bleive if you keep made people angry in wrong way with no reason you mad the socity and paly with safty and security of nation by play in wrong using of word to poltically sayI am amercain I must boss even Iran government or vice versa.
    Muslim keep get offended by word used in media and this must stop and if you turn socity in more polite and more kind and better communication you will see Muslim are very good people but before any Muslim or any Iranian did drop any weapon to any wear to go and say I want to say I am going to attack IRan this is sound I am fighting you without doing crime I am police I like to arrest any body in street if they look Muslim because I have not prejedice agaisnt Muislim but also I hate muslim all as we see medai talk about us and this communication can turn to the way we are fighting with bad people
    again what Canada troop doing in Afagnestan rather to fight them spend moneyt to built their county back Afagainst are poor conury and no source as you can see only source of country is sellin drug like Mexico are poor while in 50 years Mexico did som much growth by change correct direction tot them Afagani are handy hard working men like Chinees people use their energy to work for candain firm in business with low income they dod best job why spend mondy to send tropp while Canada can folow old way not follow USA way to fight terrroist is fight crime if fight povery and fight hate is do built them in correct way.
    in finaly word I think chasing criminal for one person did wrong or you think few Muslim did crime and now you chaseing all Muslim country to kill them all or lable them all or hate them all it is like highway traffic that police chase one criminal in long the way kill so many innocent people if you see Iraq and Afagnestan are too many innocent are dieintg since direction are not correct direction of American are not correct since they do go for mrs. CLinton got lots of money form Jewsh AMercian to bring her up lets hate Iranian while you can encourge good to become better person and keep bad not go worst if you know some countyr had potential to do more crime if they saw any oppoutunity by tlak or motive them more you made bad to act worst this is not correct politic to say it
    plus Islam and Muslim are misunderstood by west because the way they talk to Muslim are really offensive and not know Muslim and how to talk to them you can motive to sepearte them from each otehr and this is not good for safty and secuty in any country. finally Mrs.Clitin the crimina may stay in your country do not put flame up for some one outside of United stated the behave we saw in AMerican are not fair toward Muslim therefore we think Ameriaca first start fix Mulim in America before come and teach Muslim in Canada or world what to do and what her wishes is. we saw enoguh hate toward us you better go and watch you law book before you talk.

29. Great change comes from within, not without. Martin Luther was a religious Christian. Not a heretic. How are you helping? By standing on the sidelines and proclaiming all that is wrong with them? By giving them a reason to unite, the reason being that regardless of the changes they enact, you and your western civilization will see them as subhuman ‘muslims’, never equals. Because nothing can be equal.
    -Friend of Pigeons

    Muslims have had 1600 years to change Islam. They haven’t. They have the same whacked beliefs as always and they want to change ours.
    They are succeeding as evidenced by the actions of the Canadian ‘Human Rights’ Commission, and elsewhere. You quisling Leftists are their willingly ignorant cheerleaders and that’s why we are so angry.
    In the case of this particular post, you are so blinded by your perverse religion of multi-culturism that you defend the absurd ritual of endangering infants by dropping them, then you fault us as ‘haters’. Think about that for a while…
    You are selling out Western culture because you don’t believe it is anything special. You won’t understand how wonderful freedom is until it’s gone but that will be too late.
    The Muslim religion is not the same as your religion; it does not deserve any respect. This was difficult for me to accept as well until about four years ago. But I wanted to find out who was right. The more I found out about Islam the more deeply disturbing it is.
    This is not about hating anyone. Our mission is about preserving freedom for ourselves and our children. Political Islam is a dire threat to our freedom. There are now more Muslims than Catholics, and the demographics show that this is just the beginning.
    Rather than engage in your reflective rejection of everything we say and your knee-jerk tendancy to demonize Conservatives as simple-minded bigots, suppose … just suppose this one time you muster the intellectual curiosity to determine the truth for yourself. Try these sites:
    Faith Freedom – A Muslim Apostate tries to Convert Muslims
    Prophet of Doom – The Truth about Islam in Mohammad’s Own Words
    Ask the Imam – Fatwa 7676, Punishment for Apostasy
    The Religion of Peace – 11,022 deadly terrorist attacks since 9/11

30. respond to “freind of USA:”
    you said awful thing about Muslim and Islam
    again we have 1.5 billion Muslim if you see anybody committ crime because born Muslim are not give her or him the way for you to blame thier religion such as you said a man kill his daughter for not doing certain thing again in Islam are not give free ticket if not body are not follow Islam you go and do the justice and kill him again this is interpretation in media
    this site only pick say ” another Muslim woman.. again” and start to say any topic related to their religion Islam are not responsilbe for each individaul to defend them if any body born as Muslim but commite crime do not confuse two subject together if Muslim or jewih or christian or Hido do crime minor or major mus tget punish them by law
    since we live in Canada not in USA we must follow canadain rules if we want to change rules again this is up to member of parlement
    I remembered 24 years ago a woman in Vancover if I am not mistake took his top dress out and change law in Canada than woman are free to walk in sreat with top off and they are allow to show their breast
    while Muslim in opposition are not like to even shake hand with their woman
    we can say if you think freedom to show it all Muslim are say we are not show it again you can not get mad of Muslim and again this choice woamn say do not even touch me shake hand means you touch body and part of woamn body which is hand and Muslim are not like men who are not father or husband or brotehr or uncle can shake hand with woamn nto the other far or non related relative can nto shake hand with Muslim woman
    again freedom christian woamn like to sleep with too many men and Muslim woman like to marry only one man and if they have right o divorce must stay 3 month in seperation to marry again while in Canada alw you must stay one year to divorce therefore shari law means Muslim able to do certain law again this is back to member of parlement to review some law of Islam are not against today law in Canada but are different.
    again Canadian goverment has right to enforce thire law unless law maker agree with some of right of Muslim law accptalb by them which is peacfull way. do not worry if some one want ot ask some right for their diffetn religion
    like Muslim eact Halal food and Jewihs eat Kosher food and christian eat pork wich is ban by Jewish and Muslim law in any food and Islam are ban drinking alcohole while Jewish and Christian are drinking acohole this is our right to ask some law for them to demand it this law are not hurting any oppostion with them.
    Muslim men forced their family live in tent this is not Islam I have no idea where you get idea of Islam is only media and Medai teach you what is Islam is not Isalm tell you or other American that is the law of them is.
    but in reality you can not expect to porn star movie actress to like Muslim woman who are majority of them are innocent to like them while these two group are seprated from each otehr
    or bar alcohole stors owenrs like Muslim who not like to drink alcohole and belivme Muslim alcohodl change you and cause as you can see do not drink and drive we Muslim say do not drink at all this is affect your brain and no benefit usign achole only the busiensee people or advertisemnt liekt o belive you must drink as you can see no smoke we say No drink too
    we Muslim are not like pork while Pork is regular food for christian we belive pork meat can use for animal pets maybe not for human usage again we both are differene made us argue therefore we even has similrity with jewish and more differences with christian in what we eat
    again do not read CNN and show muslim country are evils but you must know the law before travel to Muslim country if you do not want to get arrested I bleive the same if Muslim like nto get arrested they must respect Canadain law until they gain some right by using their member of parment otehrwise we can not vilote any law in any country I bleive this .if you respect law and if you respect Muslim for teir woman are not like tos shake hand or touch by otehr men hten we respect you your woman are walk in down town top naked and sleep with too many men before marriage and watch any movies in the same respect but if you want to force Muslim woman to act like Christian woman again you make them agnry never mess with Muslim woman this is my advice to you.

31. Hassan, Thank you for your comments. I have some questions for you which I hope you have the courage to answer directly:
    1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist?
    2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam?
    3) Do you believe it is a moral act when a suicide bomber murders unsuspecting innocent women and children for any reason?
    4) Do you believe Sunnis and Shi’ites are equal in Allah’s eyes?
    5) Do you believe it is right that Christian churches and Jewish synagogues are forbidden in most Muslim countries such a Saudi Arabia?
    6) What is the punishment for a Muslim woman who is found guilty of infidelity under Islamic law? Isn’t it public stoning?
    7) Are both men and women treated equally in a court of Sharia law? Doesn’t the testimony of one man count for that of three women according to Sharia? How does a woman prove that she was raped? Doesn’t the crime of rape have to be observed by a man in order to be confirmed?
    8) In the Quran, isn’t slavery hallal?
    9) Is it hallal for a husband to beat his wife with a small stick according to the Quran?
    10) How old was Aisha when Mohammad married her? Wasn’t she six years old?
    11) Should a magazine be allowed to publish a cartoon or article if it is offensive to Muslims? Do you believe the death fatwa on author Salmon Rushdie is justified?

32. Hassan,
    a few things,
    – I think you are courageous ( I mean this in a good way ) for coming here, and I thank you for keeping this conversation as polite as most of us are trying to keep it.
    – I did not say awful things, I only repeated what is available from news sources such as television, newspaper and the internet.
    The facts may be awful, but mentioning them is not awful, it is simply telling the truth.
    I did not use any offending words, I did not throw one insult, I am polite, calm and respectful, I am only mentioning known facts available in news sources.
    It is no worse than saying the USA has a higher murder rate than Canada, that does not make me an awful person , it does not make me an anti-American, and it does not mean I think every American is a murderer, it is simply stating facts.
    I do not think all Muslims are alike, but quite enough of them are doing strange and scary things that many of us are worried about it.
    This is Canada, I have the right to mention such facts.
    – I have seen with my own eyes here in quebec near Montreal Muslim women covered completely except for a thin slit for their eyes, but the husbands were in jeans, t-shirt and baseball caps.
    I think this is extremely unfair to the women.
    I did not get this from CNN or FoxNews, I saw it with my own two eyes here where I live.
    I know not every Muslim lives that way but I know many Imams want every Muslim to live that way.
    And I know as more Muslims immigrate to Canada, I will see these covered women more and more.
    People who want to live in Canada should integrate and adapt to their new country and not impose their way of doing things on us.
    If I were to go live in some Muslim country I would not demand everyone adapt to my western ways, I would adapt to them.
    thank you.

33. hi
    I think you can find some answer to your question if you go to http://www.al-islam.org/
    I can say my answer to your question but my answer is not necessary you can count as all may be correct too. this is up to you find correct asnwer from good up to date Muslim who are specialist in world politic I saw your question is more politic to start than Islam question but I can say my opinin you are free to do more research if you like to know answre to each quetion you must reasrch more
    1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist?
    with no offense I want to tell you an example
    if you wake up one day and you notic after live more than 20 years with your parents you born basterd wich means your father and Mother are not leglaly or commen law are married you feel down as most people may do or already are in this situation. If your parents did commit sin as religion think you must marry and let children born in correct way to born legal child now after the fact is clear to you and all your farid may make you shame but we can not blame of the boy born basterd to now you must pay any price for it
    I bleive in the same respect with no offense sorry for Jewish peopple if they may not like my opinion most of htem Jewish are not agree how they built Isreal is legally and morrelly right but now if we can give us right to go and kill Jewish in Isreal I would say No . Now after all wrong and interfer of AMericana nd world Jewish udner pressure of Hitler they made some thing again they can not give them right to continue abuse and kill Muslim too
    I bleive we must think of name of country Isreal and Palstinaia first let people in that region who live there made this comment not me wheter or not people like to keep the name of Isral or Palatina or made new name for all people to live there next let people made goverment of them to built such as in IRaq themajoriy are Shia but goverment higest end is soni let people vot who can mad peace in that region do not count America came to help them have peace since if american was smart enough they built taht region under peace while they can not or if you let Jeiwhs outsie of Isral with their money to pay them to kill this is wrong again land verses blood come on ground what is worth what is not worth it plus poeple who bleive god and Allah and Moses is prophet of god can live more in peace in their cementray if they know the blood of poeple who love god nothing else not gos and wasted for racist and power and money any more
    I have not count country and region as base of nationalisim that Now I am Isreali let botgher neightr again land or country think it this way if some one offer some nice house in Canada we have so many land empty in Canada are not used transfer all jeiwhs in Canada and give them some aread to live what do you prefer to give you land to die and land to live I think keep the land and dieing every day in street I feel so so sorry for Jewish and Muslim who are innocent to pay that price while people can live any place in world with less violence do not let politc and nationalist made your blood thick and give you weapn to kill this is wrong way to look are survival again thiis is my opion.
    2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam?
    Islam is last religion ordered by god not by human being sometimes god order is tough but that is god order.
    Islam is perfect relgion if you study it if christian and Jewish are drinking Prophet Moheamd ban it for sake of security and safty again people who become Muslim never change their regligon to become christian and if they do just because they are not understand it well you can not say very similar law in islam and Jeiwish and CHristiantgy that you only see some changes in Islam to made god order prefect that is Islam is last relgion to perfect Moses order and Jesis’s order not to one can change others simply if you know the best do you change yourself from best to good or wrost the answer is NO if you encourgae peopel who accept teh best to change to worst then you encourge them in wrong direction
    I must go and answer to your other quetion later since it is too long to answer to each question I have no time today I will answr later again you can not count on me to get your real answer
    I try to anwer to otehr question later.

34. Hassan,
    For the sake of brevity please allow me to paraphrase your answers for our Liberal friends:
    1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist? NO
    2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam? DEATH
    3-11 NO COMMENT
    Thanks. Please come back and visit anytime, I know Kate enjoys all viewpoints in a debate.

35. Fine, freedom fan, lets play.
    “but you still have not told us one single thing that makes living under an Islamic state (they have no separation of religion and state ) equal to living in a western democracy.”
    I don’t know where that question is coming from, since the video is from India, but there is one thing that is the same in both western and islamic countries. The presence of high-strung, narcissistic, self-praising, chest-thumpers like yourself. Go on. Check it out.
    “No proof eh, fop?
    Merit?”
    The proof, my dear, is right in front of you. Not wanting to see it, does not make it non-existant. Look around on this thread, think a little, and you will find it. Sometimes it is better to not have things spelled out for you, though Kate’s spoonfeeding might have deprived you of certain critical analysis skills.
    And Freedom Fan,
    “Muslims have had 1600 years to change Islam.”
    Yeah, yeah same old story. They did change. For the worse. After providing reformist thinkers with the Roman and Greek texts that the Church nearly managed to paint out of history – you know, the books that informed western civilization when it sought to come out of “the dark ages”. But that is a moot point, just as your stating of age is. Also, the correct age would be 1400. But in light of the reformation (1516-1648) and enlightenment (17th-18th century), what is 200 years, give or take, right? Come to think of it, Christianity took 1500 years to reform.
    All of these are, of course, moot points since they don’t consider context.
    “You quisling Leftists are their willingly ignorant cheerleaders and that’s why we are so angry.”
    Really? I think regardless of whether muslims or leftists existed you would be really angry. It seems to be the only thing driving you. I am sure you would have found some other scapegoat. Your beloved history certainly suggests so. Remember the Jews?
    ” you defend the absurd ritual of endangering infants by dropping them, then you fault us as ‘haters'”
    Well, if this thread was about children being endangered, then I would wholeheartedly condemn this move alongside the submersion of Christian infants, and the circumcision of jewish and muslim infants. However, I think we have established that this thread is not about endangering infants. It is about mocking, in this case, Islam. If the person carrying out the procedure knows what he is doing, then this can be no more dangerous than circumcizing a child, could it?
    “Western culture because you don’t believe it is anything special.”
    I am not selling out western culture. I am protecting the freedoms of ALL those within it. The difference between you and me, old chap, is that you only want certain freedoms protected – freedoms to do things you approve of. And in doing so you are depriving others of their freedom. Perhaps it is you who should consider what freedom means.
    “The Muslim religion is not the same as your religion; it does not deserve any respect.”
    I don’t respect it. But I do afford all muslims the basic respect human beings are entitled to, in the absence of any individual incriminating evidence. I don’t see them guilty until proven innocent, a charge that any man with a little knowledge about western civilization will find most absurd. For you, though, I suspect that they are, even if only by association.
    “Our mission is about preserving freedom for ourselves and our children.”
    And how do you propose to do that? By banning muslim immigrants? By assimilating muslims and converting them “out” of their religion. We both know muslims make up a small portion of the western world. Even in England, they account for what, 2 – 3%. In India they are 12%, In China, probably smaller. How are they threatening your freedoms?
    “There are now more Muslims than Catholics”
    Where? In muslim countries? Okay. Thats their problem. Are you expecting some kind of global invasion of human waves? Because I hate to disappoint you, but even in those countries, muslims are not as fastidiously religious as you want to believe. They have bigger concerns than spreading Islam on a global scale.
    Its a wonderful straw man, but the numbers dont add up. Islam has 1.5 bn adherents. Christiantiy has 2 bn. Hinduism has 1 bn. Then theres the allsorts in China, another bn there.
    What demographics are you talking about?
    Name one coutnry in western civilization where the Muslim population can actually challenge the ruling regime.
    “Rather than engage in your reflective rejection of everything we say and your knee-jerk tendancy to demonize Conservatives as simple-minded bigots”
    You would know a lot about demonization wouldn’t you? After all, you practice it on a daily basis here.
    Give it a shot. Prove to me that Islam can actually pose a threat to the freedoms of the west. It is a religion that is not at peace with itself. They are not united, them being Sunnis and Shiias.
    And lets stay away from the tired old drivel about the Steyn and the Rights commission. You need those things on occassion to strengthen institutions.

36. Remember the Jews?
    -Pigeon Poop

    Yes, aren’t they the ones who founded Israel, which your buddy hassan here wants to push into the sea?

37. Freedom Fan
    “Yes, aren’t they the ones who founded Israel, which your buddy hassan here wants to push into the sea?”
    Yeah, the ones who were targetted mercilessly by Christians for around 1900 years before a product of western civilization took it one step too far.
    You and your kind will always find a minority to hate. First it was Jews, then (depending on where you lived) Catholics/Protestants. Atheists figured briefly. Now its the Muslim’s turn. Got to keep occupied, eh?
    I suspect you couldn’t quite comprehend anything else I posited. Nor do I know who Hassan is. But the langauge of fanatics is as alien to me as the langauge of reason is to you, and ostensibly Hassan (haven’t read a word he said). Only dogs can understand other barking dogs, eh.

38. I suspect you couldn’t quite comprehend anything else I posited.
    -PP

    True. You conflated something another poster said with things I said.
    You disgustingly assert I am somehow responsible for the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition.
    You obviously know nothing about Islam and are not about to learn.
    You don’t know who ‘hassan’ is although he commented four posts away.
    In order to begin to have a debate, there is a requisite minimum level of intelligence, which I’m afraid you don’t possess. Please go back to feeding the pigeons.

39. Yes, I realised that after I posted, I meant to address you directly, but I had pasted those into the box before hand. It was a mistake, not deliberate.
    “You disgustingly assert I am somehow responsible for the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition.”
    Not you. People like you. Perhaps you in another age. People who look for somebody else to blame for everything. If the world is a bad place, it is because of muslims. Sound familiar? The people who carried out those two despicable events were, like you, products of western civilization. Hitler, as I recall, was born and bred in Germany, a long-standing part of western civilization. It only goes to show that any civilization can produce nutcases – a cautionary tale of sorts.
    “You obviously know nothing about Islam and are not about to learn.”
    Why should I? I don’t intend to practice it. And I don’t want to become one of those people who learn about something with the sole aim of attacking it. You say you know a lot about Islam. I daresay you only know what you want to know. All the quotes about how muslims should treat infidels. And probably nothing more. People who go in with your view only see what they want to, in the light that they want to see it. 1.5 bn adherents suggests there might be something morally appealling about it. Perhaps you might want to show your mastery of these “good” parts. Bet you can’t though, because if its in the Koran, it must be bad. Prove me wrong.
    “You don’t know who ‘hassan’ is although he commented four posts away.”
    I don’t have time to scrutinize his and Friend of USA’s duel. It has no bearing on what I am saying. He is a defender of Islam. I am not. I am, however, a defender of basic human dignities for all, regardless of their religion.

40. Friend of, as always, Pigeons :
    Friend of pigeons you say a lot of things amid many accusations.
    No facts though. Just warm bubbles of modern multicasts thinking emoting from you in self righteous burps of Values clarification. Believing the human race all just wants to love each other. It plain you never read any history, or have lived in a convent your whole life.
    I just have a few facts.
    1. 9/11
    2. Female circumcision.
    3. All non- Muslims are under dhimitude in ALL their Nations, & subject to a tax to be left alive.
    4. Women are not equal in law or Religion to men. Rape victims become stoned & not like your crowd.
    5. There has been a war on several fronts by Jihadisats. Namely the physical war. But by far there propaganda efforts have focused on our HRc’s to back door sharia law. Using our own laws to institute there’s. Useful political idiots as well who don’t know there now owned. Quislings.
    6. Mohammad raped a 9 year old & did the same on battlefields to Women. Indeed it was a religious duty thus the rape rooms in Syria & Iraq.
    7. Islam attacked the West first almost taking Paris, than the Turks Christian pilgrims. They continued these attacks till 1719 when Western medicine & expansion technologically outclassed their fanaticism for a world Caliphate.
    8.Communism was & still is a threat, you figure that’s bogus as well?
    9. Iranian officials have stated on record many times they will analyze Israel. Syria is an Iranian client State.
    10. Fanatic Islamism Iranians really believe the 12th Caliph or Mhadi is about to appear to end the world.
    11. What part of blown up trains in Spain & Britain don’t you understand? Nor the would be bombing Jihadists here, against parliament & beheading out PM?
    Save us all from pseudo-intellectuals!
    FOP: A sharp tongue is no indication of a keen mind.

41. Freedom fan
    I took your advise and read what he has to say. Was fairly tough to decipher.
    This I found amusing.
    “2) What is the punishment for a Muslim who renounces Islam? DEATH”
    Christianity (Justinian) put forth a death sentence for apostasy long before Islam was created. And given that Muhammad was heavily influenced by christianity and Islam, well, I would go so far as to suggest that he may have learnt this particular gem from Christianity. Byzantine was not far from where he lived.
    “1) Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist? NO”
    Titanic observation. A lot of people from a lot of faiths would give you that answer. I beleive Israel has a right to exist, so I won’t presume to speak for them, but I should note that you deliberately ignored something he said, which probably doesn’t conform with your views.
    “I feel so so sorry for Jewish and Muslim who are innocent to pay that price while people can live any place in world with less violence do not let politc and nationalist made your blood thick and give you weapn to kill this is wrong way to look are survival again thiis is my opion.”
    Sounds like he is against violence. But the short answer deliberately ignores that. Pretty damn strange, given your views about Islam, eh?
    Where is that intelligence you chided me about?

42. Gah. I am not going to defend Islam. I don’t know why that is so baffling to people like Revnant dream.
    ” Believing the human race all just wants to love each other.”
    My bad. I guess the human race just wants to hate each other. You being evidence in this regard.
    “other. It plain you never read any history, or have lived in a convent your whole life.”
    I did go to Catholic school :D.
    But lets put things in perspective. You argue that Islam is bad for doing all those things. In a similar vein I will put forth similar issues from Western Civilization
    1. 9/11
    World War I/ World War II. Your point?
    2. Female circumcision.
    Male circumcision.
    3. All non- Muslims are under dhimitude in ALL their Nations, & subject to a tax to be left alive.
    Yeah, used to be the same in western civilization till Christianity was forcefully removed from politics. No direct tax. But no equal rights. Corpus Juris Civilis, and all that jazz.
    4. Women are not equal in law or Religion to men. Rape victims become stoned & not like your crowd.
    Mormons.
    5. There has been a war on several fronts by Jihadisats. , . Using our own laws to institute there’s. Useful political idiots as well who don’t know there now owned. Quislings.
    Okay you got me. I guess we are in trouble. Not only do we have religious christians demanding that certain groups (homosexuals) not have certain rights, but we’ve got Muslims sticking their nose in there too.
    6. Mohammad raped a 9 year old & did the same on battlefields to Women. Indeed it was a religious duty thus the rape rooms in Syria & Iraq.
    Mormons come to mind on the age thing. But then again wars back then were known for their raping and pillaging. Only a fool would deny that soldiers didn’t engage in such activity back then, and don’t today. American troops are still causing problems in Okinawa. But I digress. The opportunity for pillage and rape were the prime motivators to become soliders back then. Every army engaged in it, Christian, Muslim or otherwise. The spoils of war, remember?
    7. Islam attacked the West first almost taking Paris, than the Turks Christian pilgrims. They continued these attacks till 1719 when Western medicine & expansion technologically outclassed their fanaticism for a world Caliphate.
    Lets pretend that colonialism didn’t take place. I don’t recall India or China attacking the west first.
    8.Communism was & still is a threat, you figure that’s bogus as well?
    Sure it is. But what has that got to do with Islam? Wasn’t it Islamic jihadis who brought the Soviets to their knees in Afghanistan – the whole godless thing?
    Besides, communism is a prodcut of western civilization. Marx and Engles were born and bred in the west, no? Or did they come up with it through their study of Islam?
    9. Iranian officials have stated on record many times they will analyze Israel. Syria is an Iranian client State.
    They will analyze Israel?
    10. Fanatic Islamism Iranians really believe the 12th Caliph or Mhadi is about to appear to end the world.
    Huh? Christians really believe Jesus is going to appear at the end of the world. A lot of protestant support for Israel is based on this. Islam came after christianity and copied some parts of it. But what exactly is your point?
    11. What part of blown up trains in Spain & Britain don’t you understand? Nor the would be bombing Jihadists here, against parliament & beheading out PM?
    Terrorists come from all religions. I remember some Catholic ones who used to cause havoc in London every now and then. Theres not much to understand. Theres a couple of crazies out there. There always have been.

43. It is amazing to me how Leftists hate their own culture so much that they must constantly search for and re-live ancient sins while dismissing the astounding progress made by Western civilization.
    The religion of multiculturism demands that we refrain from criticizing any culture except for Western culture.
    Apologists for the murder and mayhem committed in the name of Allah must dredge up ancient history and instead place all blame upon our own culture.
    If a Muslim says that Israel must be exterminated, our Leftist says so? A lot of people feel that way, not just Muslims.
    If a Muslim says the penalty for apostasy is death (the sentence just passed upon a man in Afghanistan), our Leftist says well they must have gotten that idea from Jesus, don’t dare blame Islam.
    If a Muslim says we must slice out the clitoris from all our girls, our Leftist says well we circumcize our men, so what’s the big deal?
    When confronted with the overwhelming evidence of thousands of acts of daily terrorism on innocent victims around the world, our Leftist says so? Remember the terrorists in Ireland? Terrorism has nothing to do with all the Islamists shouting “Allahu Akbar”.
    Leftist are so narcissistic that they will only try to find the cause of violence when they become the victim themselves.
    Liberals have a distorted world view in which all bad things are only done by the West. Anyone else who does a bad thing must have been made to do it by the West because we are evil.
    There are none so blind as they who will not see.

44. I don’t know why you bother with fop, Freedom Fan. This intellectual midget just equated male circumcision to female circumcision. He/She is about as deep as a tub.

45. “It is amazing to me how Leftists hate their own culture so much that they must constantly search for and re-live ancient sins while dismissing the astounding progress made by Western civilization.”
    History teaches many lessons, the most important of which is learning from one’s own earlier mistakes. I choose not to ignore it but to use it for perspective. And to provide cautionary tales. It is not about hating culture, it is about seeing it for what it is. I am not dismissing the astounding progress made, but I am cautioning against repeating mistakes from the past that can undermine this progress. One of the mistakes important in this regard is not to engage in demonizing campaigns. A lesson lost on you.
    “The religion of multiculturism demands that we refrain from criticizing any culture except for Western culture.”
    Criticize anything. And anyone. But do not demonize/dehumanize them. If this was about child endangerment, then where are the posts about child marriage and circumcisions. This is purely about Islam bashing. The presence of children is incidental and advantageous. There is a difference between criticizing someone and demonizing them.
    “If a Muslim says that Israel must be exterminated, our Leftist says so? A lot of people feel that way, not just Muslims.”
    Really. Did the post not show that he was against violence? Where did you see the word exterminated in there? Creative bugger, aren’t ya? Many people disagree with the idea of Israel without calling for its extermination. He appears to be one of them. Theres a difference between agreeing or disagreeing with an idea, and calling for extermination. And it isn’t subtle. Of course, not wanting to acknowledge this is more reflective of whatever zealotry and fanaticism binds/blinds you.
    “If a Muslim says the penalty for apostasy is death (the sentence just passed upon a man in Afghanistan), our Leftist says well they must have gotten that idea from Jesus, don’t dare blame Islam.”
    Blame Islam. I didn’t say don’t blame them. Its a horrible idea, but it isn’t a unique one. The entire point being that each civilization has its kinks. Some backward group demanded the death sentence for some poor guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    “If a Muslim says we must slice out the clitoris from all our girls, our Leftist says well we circumcize our men, so what’s the big deal?”
    You got me. I really don’t see how you can condemn one without condemning the other.
    “When confronted . , . shouting “Allahu Akbar”.”
    Well seeing as suicide bombing originated in Sri Lanka of all places, while mass terrorism (poisoning the water supply) began in Jerusalem during Roman rule, I don’t see how terrorism can be seen as a Muslim “thing”. Islamic terrorism is a new phenomenon dating back to the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1920s.
    “Liberals have a distorted world view in which all bad things are only done by the West. Anyone else who does a bad thing must have been made to do it by the West because we are evil.”
    Theres a difference between criticizing others and demonizing them. Criticize all you want. But don’t play these subtle games of dehumanizing them. It is much easier to kill the dehumanized. That, my friend, is a lesson repeated to us as recently as the 1940s from within western civilization. It is a lesson I heed, but you choose to ignore. You are right. There are none so blind as they who will not see.

46. Friend of pigeon,
    we cut a tiny piece of flesh from the penis, they REMOVE the clitoris!!!
    There is NO comparison.
    Either you did not know (while calling us ignorant) or you are a very weak debater.

47. “This intellectual midget just equated male circumcision to female circumcision. He/She is about as deep as a tub.”
    Can somebody explain to me the vast difference between the two? In both cases I see children being endangered. And thats what this thread is about, right?
    Why is circumcizing a female so much worse than circumcizing a male? Same concept. Different gender.

48. It is called female EXCISION, genital mutilation, it is nothing similar to removing a tiny piece of flesh.
    They REMOVE the clitoris!!!
    You should learn more about Islam before telling us we are Islamophobes.

49. “There is NO comparison.”
    In terms of childhood trauma (isn’t that the underlying theme of this thread?), they are the same. Male circumcision after a certain age is actually considered potentially life-threatening. But that is a whole other issue.
    Long term problems are a wholly different issue, though male circumcision has been known to kill certain important nerve endings. Of course comparing this with female circumcision would be purely conjectural.

50. “They REMOVE the clitoris!!!”
    Okay, okay. I get it. I don’t know anything about this practice and I don’t know any girls, muslim or otherwise, who have been subjected to it, which leaves me wondering if it is a regional practice or actually institutionalized in the Koran. Is it?
    “You should learn more about Islam before telling us we are Islamophobes.”
    Why? You would continue to be islamophobes (your word, not mine) regardless of my knowledge of the religion. At the end of the day, your only goal is to promote suspicion, mistrust and hatred. My knowing or not knowing anything about Islam will not change that.