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But nice try. Give the enviro-left credit – they start the hypocrisy training early. They even have a little logo! |
– Liz McDowell (Vancouver, BC)
– Azra Shivja (Markham, ON)
– Robert Hamon (Montreal, QC)
– Sasha Pippenger (Vancouver, BC)
– Joanna Dafoe (Toronto, ON)
– Olivier James Lavoie (Montreal, QC)
– Katrina Genuis (Sherwood Park, AB)
– May Jeong (Toronto, ON)
– Claire Stockwell (Montreal, QC)
– Rosa Kouri (Saskatoon,SK)
– PJ Partington (Toronto, ON)
– Nicolas Nadeau (Hanwell, NB)
– Hannah McKinnon (Deloraine, MB)
– Courtney Price (Toronto, ON)
– Lise Richard (Antigonish, NS)
– Adam Scott (Guelph, ON)
– Laura Zizzo (Toronto, ON)
– Marley Parker (Halifax, NS)
– Aiden Abram (Guelph, ON)
– Jeff Beyer (Ottawa, ON)
– Jessica Wishart (Halifax, NS)
– Trevor Bennett (Guelph, ON)
– Genevieve Gilbert (Ottawa, ON)
– Josh Darrach (Charlottetown, PE)
– Jennie McDowell (Guelph, ON)
– Adriana Hoogenboom (Ottawa, ON)
– Adam MacIsaac (St. Peters Bay, PE)
– David Noble (Guelph,
– Micah Melnyk (Ottawa, ON)
– Johnathon Constantine (Conception Bay S, NL)
– Derek Pieper (Guelph, ON)
– Catherine Gauthier (Montreal, QC)
That’s right – there are thirty-two names. All members of a “youth delegation” that flew to Bali to demand a meeting with John Baird to discuss their earth inheritance.
Six of these motivated young “heroes” are from Guelph (about 6 hours from Ottawa by minivan), including David Noble, whose “consulting company” 2degreesC, is credited with allowing all 32 to travel “carbon neutral”. Click on the link if you wish – but there’s not much there.
Apparently, his principled objection to Canadian environmental policy fell just short of preventing the carbon neutral Mr. Noble from going taxpayer funding neutral – he secured contracts worth nearly $50,000 from Natural Resources Canada in 2007, for 15 weeks of work.
so nice they are coming home to a blast of global warming . .
Ontario is expecting a major snowfall on S Elise Amendola)
Locations and amount of snowfall are predicted in a special advisory issued by Environment Canada.
Locations and amount of snowfall are predicted in a special advisory issued by Environment Canada.
Central Canada braces for ‘massive’ winter wallop
Updated Sat. Dec. 15 2007 12:04 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
Central and Eastern Canada are bracing for a severe winter storm that Environment Canada warns could dump as much as 40 centimetres of snow in some parts of the country.
The major low pressure system is barreling toward Canada from Texas and will move into southwestern Ontario by Saturday afternoon — bringing 20 to 30 centimetres of snow, strong winds and freezing rain with it, Environment Canada’s website report
Orton,
I’ll assume that you are a “skeptic” on just about everything stemming from Judeo-Christian western tradition….so why are you INCAPABLE of being a skeptic about AGW?
Explain that.
Bob: 12:22pm.
Global warming is one world government global socialism. It isn’t about the environment.
It’s politics.
Our wise elders used to say it’s rude to discuss politics or religion.
Global warming is politics AND religion.
Do NOT discuss. If it comes up be silent til is passes.
As a friend says: you can’t reason somebody out of a position he didn’t reason himself into.
Orton Park,
Did you ever stop to ask where are the carbon credit monies going to and what happens with it?
How do you rationalize this:
Germany has spent hundreds of millions of dollars buying “carbon credits” from China. Of course it was done with the intention that China would use these funds to retrofit some of it’s obsolete industry to reduce the GHGs emissions, such as their power generation plants which according to National Geographic, spew out such huge amounts of pollution and particulates, that they can be visually tracked all the way across the Pacific Ocean to North America. Guess what China did with the funds? -they did not retrofit their horrendously huge pollution emmiting old palnts, they built new plants. Sounds like a reasonable move, IF the new plants were going to replace some of the old big emitters. BUT it didn’t work out that way. They bult new plants that use not new low emitting technology, they built lower cost plants that utilize obsolete, high emitting technolgy and they did not shut down any or the other old plants because they emit at about the same horrendous high rates. So, in reality, instead of lowereing world GHG emissions, the German carbon credit funds actually caused an increase in GHG emissions. What a scam, the Germans were had and the Greenies thnk that the Germans were helping to save the planet.
I noticed on the news the other night that notorious jewel thief Svend “The Pink Panther” Robinson was also in attendance at Bali. I’d be willing to bet he wasn’t there on his own dime.
For all the stated importance, of this Bali Conference, why did the national networks not have the cameras rolling there, at *each session*, when the representatives of each country spoke?
What the public got here, in this country, were the interviews of those unelected grumblers, who had their own known agendas….people flitting about, bags of coal, people-circles on the beaches…pictures of meeting rooms and hallways.
It would have been helpful to hear the speeches from the reps from other countries to see, for ourselves, what the nuances were….what the terms were, how the movement to and fro went.
The media allowed us to see the entire speech, recently, by Musharaff when he was appealing for support for his position.
Remember the Lebanon erruption…were there cameras there following every sick passenger on ships?
We got minute by minute coverage of sifting baryard soil when a man was charged with murder.
We got the full coverage of a princess’s wedding, or two, and the 24/7 coverage of her untimely death.
But when it came to something with their stated potential for destruction to us all, where were they?
Look at what the CBC, and CTV gave us….Mulroney-Schreiber….Cashore-Delacourt-Newman….Mansbridge at UBC with a panel flown to Vancouver, from Eastern Canada.
And if we find that there were restrictions to that coverage, from either the UN, or the media on this side of the waters, we should know why.
A start will be to contact Natural Resources Canada to see what the Canadian taxpayer got for that contract with Noble.
Looking outthe window right now.
That SWON snowstorm is starting.
I have to go turn UP my thermostat to make sure I don’t freeze.
Tonight I’ll turn on ALL my lights. There’s something captivating about the twinkle of light off of falling snowflakes.
Seeing as I have to work in the morning using a diesel burning smoke belching truck. I think I’ll IDLE IT ALL NIGHT to make sure it’s running in the morning and the cab is toasty warm.
I mean, those pretentious little toads need their food, clothes, asswipe and iPods, right? Gotta do what I gotta do to make sure they have their luxuries…
What’s a few bucks in diesel when I can tell the Gooficle and Fruitbat to KMA?
some questions . .
How man of these eco-jihadis are young Liberals or Dippers ??
Who funded their trip, organized it, made the travel arrangements etc
ht tp://www.avaaz. org/fossils/
i think the other side won this battle of dolts. good on ya for trying to shame em kate, but ur site just isnt as popular as theirs. prolly cos more candies agree with them than some nutter from sask.
Well,after seeing this list of names/hometowns,I for one(as a proud Manitoban)am ashamed that from this ‘Dipper’province we could only muster up ONE lone rep. NOT !! Gee…I guess Manitoban’s just don’t care enough,or hopefully,it represents that we are a province of non-enviro-whacko’s,and aren’t buying into the scam.That makes me an even prouder Manitoban.
It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the climate.
Which is why the Enviro. minister (Christine Stewart?) at the time said that Kyoto was the best chance to spread wealth and social justice around the world. Her first public words in Canada after the conference and not a syllable about the climate.
I’d say that Kyoto and the whole GW dog-and-pony show is a con job, but to run a con, don’t you have to keep your goal a secret?
ortin, agw is not happening. ok. you are wrong. that makes all other discussion about global warming unnecessary. adapt to what ever climate changes nature may throw at us and stop being so stupid..
“Richard Ball: Could it be because the government was elected, and they were not?
Were the executives at Encana, Iogen, and PlascoEnergy also elected? They formed part of the official Canadian delegation, after all.”
The point is it’s the elected government’s responsibility and decision, not theirs. I do not claim to have a “right” to be on the government delegation; nor should they — especially if their intent is to oppose the government.
Cheers.
18 to 25 year olds eh! A bit of college, little or zero experience with the real world. Yep that’s who I want to pay my money to! Demand your inheritance – NOW – and start by paying diety du jour, Al Gore and friends!
orton – you are ‘speaking sophistry’. Meaningless words. Think about them.
1)You have no proof that CO2 affects the climate. A great many scientists dispute the Kyoto claim and state that the IPCC is misleading the world.
More researchers claim that the UN-IPCC is a money laundering scam. You have nothing to say about this – despite the clear statements by the G77 that they absolutely refuse to have anything to do with emissions or pollution control.
If you and the Youth Gang really were concerned, you’d be insisting that the G77 follow the same rules.
2) Don’t get into this ‘democratic right’ to protest. Who is paying them for this? What good is it to flaunt yourself in front of the cameras? How about doing some real work on the topic? If these people were sincere, they’d begin the task at home. But Bali, when there’s freezing weather at home, is nice. Especially when its taxpayer money.
3) You refer to the ‘true costs’ of ‘remaining output’? What does this mean?
4) You also refer to costs of, eg, gasoline. Are you serious? No one individual pays ‘full costs’ of anything; that’s impossible. Production of goods and services is a COMMUNAL action, and both costs and results operate within the group. Never the individual! what economics class did you miss?
5)’externalities back into internalities’. I think you’ve taken too many postmodernist courses. What does that mean?
6)Again – why haven’t you commented on several FACTS? That AGW is not a scientifically valid theory, and, that the G77 countries all reject it. They refuse to have any controls on their industrial and other energy output. If the proponents of AGW were serious, they’d insist that the G77 follow controls.
It’s a money scam. The fact is, that you are far, far behind in analysis of Kyotoism…
Kate,
I am grateful to have this refuge to come to so I can escape the MMGW hysteria permeating western society.
I find the constant doomsayer methodology of the MSM extremely depressing.Can any of my fellow bloggers here offer me any hope that the exposure of this faux impending disaster is gaining any traction among the populace?
What an utterly colossal waste of global time,money,energy and resources this is.One day,environmentalists will wake up and discover their antics have kept us from addressing the REAL problems we face in our environment.
Sigh.
with the comments about wealth distribution and comments from a liberal senator (a few years back)stating to the effect that gun control is the first step in our pacification it drives me up the wall that Stephen Harper is the one with the “hidden agenda”. are people really that stupid or do they just really want to be socially engineered into whiny, politically correct (liberal of course) puppets?
Now people.Be nice talking about these little leeches.Do not forget that they will be the new “commisars” in the forth coming new “Utopina” world government.Just remember this as they drive by your hut in the morning in their “carbon neutral” truck(paid for with your crops)wondering why your fields aren’t abloom.
Orton….give me just ONE example of how paying money to a ponzi scheme reduces something already PRODUCED? Are you telling me that paying for my loaf of bread means it no longer exists???
hey Ontario . . just saw they news.
Looks like a really big blast of Global Warming is coming your way today. Probably caused by the tsunami of CO2 released at the Great Bali Gabfest
Get out your shovels and enjoy a nice day at the beach.
Maybe you’ll bump into Dr. Fruit Fly or Al Gore.
It does seem a bit strange that there were no people “youth’s” from Yukon Territories, Northwest Territories or from Nanavut. They could not find any?. Since global warming will effect these places and people first you would have thought they would be included.
Worked in Arctic “Beaufort Sea” as an oil worker in early 80’s and was told that they would not be able to produce off of a platform or man made island because of the risk of moving ice. Seen it lift tug boats out of water where they were high centered and had to stay there until current dispersed ice and then they could move. Seen ice pile up on Tarsuit Island up 70 feet and crush tanks and machinery. Nothing they could do about it.
I think when you have policies in place for every country to follow, “it might just work”. Take the UN on their “Oil for Food” policy on Iraq. They were caught in a scandal and it was buried thru the court systems. The people who it was supposed to benefit never received such aid. I think that the UN is no different in its thinking of today as it was yesterday, “they are still trying to print money and have the ELITISTS control of power.
I do not know which system is going to benefit Canada but I do one thing if people are going to live in Canada, “with its diverse climate” YOU NEED HEAT, POWER, WATER and TRANSPORTATION and a JOB. If you do not have these things you are living on the STREET or living in DADDIES and MOMMIES BASEMENT, who is supplying these things for you and praying like hell you will find a job and move out and then you can say you will inherit the earth.
When the people who are behind the World Warming Syndrome live like ordinary common folks who are worried about just getting bye in everyday living, “and I am not talking about flying to so called conferences, staying in plush hotels and attending every party available with of course the best of wine and dine. I would be very happy to listen to them. Until then “STICK YOUR BALI CONFERANCE WHERE THE SUN DOSEN”T SHINE. Merle Underwood.
Orton Park… “Second, environmental and youth groups have as legitimate a claim to be at the table as industry, since the outcomes of Bali will impact both their work and their lives. Why did they have to pay their own way, which denies them access to higher level meetings that the energy sector executives had access to?”
That logic suggests that every person who’s lively hoods that currently count on the oil/gas sector, should have had their way payed to Bali. I did not get invited… why not? I really could use a Bali vacation, paid for by anyone but me.
The so called undeveloped countries… We will continue to add to this problem, the rest of you are not allowed. Unless of course, you pay us…
The so called environmentalists… we will continue to add to this problem by our actions to “save the planet”, the rest of you heathens are not allowed. Unless of course, you pay us…
“This is a global event with global impacts for everyone” (Orton Park, 12:14PM)
No it isn’t. “Man-made Global Warming”, “Man-made Climate Change”… the bloody things don’t exist! You’ve been sold a bill of goods, why can’t you understand that?
I repeat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXDISLXTaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQQGFZHSno
Nobody –NOBODY– could watch this lecture, by an EXPERT on the subject who is far, far more able to make sense of global climate than ANYBODY I’ve yet read or heard who actually believes the human-induced Climate Change hooey, and not come away a Climate Change skeptic (note the capital letters).
The social engineers, on the other hand, don’t really give a damn about the “Climate” part of “Climate Change”. That’s patently obvious.
if you need somthing to be afraid of, how about the mercury in those compact flourecents.
scares the sh## out of me.
Bios of all delegates and a list of financial supporters (oops missing):
http://www.cydbali.org/
They also blogged for the Toronto Star
Blog: The view from Bali
http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/Environment/article/282004
ET:
One quibble on your terminology. I would replace your frequently used “money laundering” phrase with something like global income re-distribution.
Money laundering is an attempt to cleanse dirty money by running it though legitimate enterprise; this AGW racket is the opposite: dumping clean money into the sewer of one-world global governance [the criminal UN] and corporate/NGO rent seeking.
Your right. The enviro-left is almost as hypocritical as conservative-voting right-whingers belly aching about high taxes and nanny state socialism while supporting subsidies for free-loading farmers. Not a square inch of moral high ground from the sda quarter.
Those kids are environmentalist zombies.
They have no idea what life will be like if the climate changers succeed in destroying the West.
Teddy,
Don’t worry, the sky is not falling! Climate change has been a fact for millenia and will continue to be for ages to come. The earth has warmed and cooled countless times before. This is not about science, although many scientists are building careers and reputations on AGW. This is about greed, pure and simple. There are billions of dollars ready to trade hands. There is scimming and scamming to be done, commissions to be earned, contracts to be won etc. This is about a sociaist world government in waiting trying to flex its muscles through fear and smear… sound familiar Saskatchewan?
Daniel
They are not being hypocrites. If you read their little press release,Ms Rose from Saskatoon states that they are ihheriting the earth that they have done nothing to denigrate,so they are off to Bali to change that.See,thier flights and most likely copious consumptiomn will contribute to the denigration of the planet,no hypocrisy there. Though it could be just bad writing from a journalist student who spends his time writing nifty protest signs and dreaming up cutting edge chants,such as 1,2,3,4,what do we want,free trips,when do we want them ,now. And it is quite possible the writer Adam MacIsaac is related to Ashley MacIsaac,which would explain a lot.
agree, me no dhimmi. My term is wrong. But come up with a different term – the ‘global income redistribution’ doesn’t evaluate that redistribution.
I’m trying to say, as you point out, that there is an extremely unfair action going on. That is, those who have worked very hard, with their muscles and their intellect, with their private enterprise and their taxes, over many many generations of toil, to generate modern industrial technology and benefits – are being chastized by those who haven’t done a stick of work, body or mind – and are being told by these Do Nothings – to hand over the benefits from all that hard work.
Why? Why should we? We and our ancestors worked very hard to innovate, experiment, develop new technologies, figure out what works and doesn’t work. It took a lot of our money, a lot of our toil, a lot of our failures. And those peoples who did nothing, now want all that technology, all those inventions, all the results of that work – for nothing.
Why? What do we owe them? We are being chastized for our hard work!
well manny, this is what separates the conservative from the libertarian who is against all subsidies including for farmers.
HOWEVER, it would be impossible today to win an election by promising to end the farm subsidies. All parties argue for their continuance because “they’re all doing it”. You can try to chip away at them over time though. Your ideological friends — the Europeans — are the worst offenders! And let’s remember that a lot of the putative health regulations are really just disguised trade barriers.
One, Two, Three … ‘Don’t Worry Be Happy’.
ONE
Is unusual, long-term GW happening ? Small Chance.
TWO
If, IF it is, is man causing it ? Small, small chance.
THREE
If, IF it is happening AND if, IF man is causing it … would it be all that bad ?
Not for Canada — the ‘Land Of Ice And Snow’.
The world must sometimes think Canadians are the laughing-stock of the world.
Thank-you Warren Kinsella for being such a “good” right hand man.
“What an utterly colossal waste of global time,money,energy and resources this is.One day,environmentalists will wake up and discover their antics have kept us from addressing the REAL problems we face in our environment.”
(teddy, 1:46PM)
The problem as I see it, teddy, is that when we arrive at that point of having to address “REAL problems”, there’s a very great chance that nobody will believe it; all the environmentalists’ capital will have been squandered on “Global Warming/Climate Change”.
You know, the one group of people for whom I have zero respect are the Hollywood holier-than-thou self-important moralists (with a few notable exceptions, of course… Tom Selleck, Arsenio Hall, James Woods, Bo Derek, Gary Sinise, Ben Stein, Harry Connick, …). It’s things like their backing for THIS issue amongst others –you know, Oscars for demonstrably crappy films like “An Inconvenient Truth” and “Hearts And Minds”– that have given me to understand that there isn’t anything at all THAT high-flown crowd of self-congratulatory egocentrics believe that’s worth even the sweat of my, ahhh, brow. They’ve blown ALL their capital. Haven’t they?
ET has framed the issue pretty much perfectly, as usual.
Wow, thirty-two Gore Bimbos, Suzkooky Kooks, Dion Dreamers, you name them.
They can’t be serious about the environment when they fly to the South Pacific to talk to a person they can meet right here in FREEZING COLD AND SNOWY Canada.
It’s all about publicity and politics,the in thing in the land of the Leftoid Cloud Dwellers. It’s their current craze on their way to the Cool Aid stand or Lemming Bluffs where they can follow each other over the edge.
They can all fuddle duddle.
The phrase I would use, ET, is ponzi protection racket.
ET: You’re right, “global income re-distribution” isn’t right either — doesn’t capture the immorality of it. The theft, the looting.
BTW, been meaning to ask you: have you read Atlas Shrugged? I’m on my first read; had read The Fountainhead way back in the 70s but somehow didn’t get around to this til now. You can well imagine the mind-bending experience I’m having reading this in the morning and Hayek’s “Constitution of Liberty” in the evening AND witnessing this wholesale fraud in between!
I’ll work on it :). Looting should perhaps be in the phrase somewhere!
Indeed Joe B, ET does nail this topic — an extremely impressive feat when you factor in the contemporary university milieu she works in (in case you didn’t know).
Watch the next conference will be held in Nunavut,
and suddenly everyone will be suggesting meetings be held via world wide teleconferences,
while singing themselves sanctimonious praises for acting in such a responsible manner.
Except, Vitruvius, Ponzi Scheme is not that familiar a term today.
Kate?
Global Swarming?
Later this evening,my wife and I are attending a Christmas meal at my mother’s. Now she lives 20 miles from us.I drive a car (1997) that gets 31 mpg. These are my questions:
1.How many carbon credits need I purchase and need I only buy half being 2 persons in 1 vehicle?
2.Where in Sask.,cause I like to buy locally,do I purchase said credits?
3.What is the cost of each credit?
4.How do I tell my 87 yr. old mother that these get-togethers must stop in order to prevent this global warming?
I really need answers fast as we leave within the hour.Or have I left it too long and now must cancel?
Bali deal reached. UN’s Bali Chief starts to cry (literally) escorted from conference, because China wouldn’t play:
“China angrily accused the U.N. of pressuring nations to sign off on the text even as sideline negotiations continued. That prompted an emotional spat that ended when tearful and exhausted U.N. climate chief Yvo de Boer was escorted out of the hall.”
Here:
http://tinyurl.com/2s4rzu
Climate cheques?
:The point of “carbon neutrality” for the consumer is to pay to a greater extent the full costs associated with one’s actions:
That’s not “carbon neutrality” that’s marxist economics and it defies the laissez faire demand economics of consumer run capitalism….it attaches a guilt/sin tax to consumerism which has no moral or scientific basis.
I don’t think I have to tell you what to do with marxist command economics or statist price fixing.
A) this guilt tax comes from a statist collectivist orthodoxy that holds there is something wrong with consuming resources…or that it is a sin to consume more resources that one has been alloted by some all knowing corporeal bureaucratic deity.
B) This Orthodoxy assumes that resources are a collective holding rather than free to be exploited by those who take the risk and capital to extract and refine these resources into a salable commodity to market to a demand base who will reimburse the exploiter for his risk plus a profit motive to continue.
Now entering into this are the interloping regulatory self-professed moral authorities and guardians of the earth mother who attach the costs of guilt&sin to the whole process…they are essentially skimming the supply and demand curves for revenues which they claim will go to fix the “damage” consuming creates….they have no practical technical means to do this… nor is their theory about the “damage” or the ability to “fix it” based in any sound science or demonstrable proof.
Essentially a large wad of revenue is being diverted from the legitimate supply and consumption chain to a shadowy group of “fixers” who can provide us with no concrete benefits nor demonstrable side benefits and essentially no documental success accountability.
I refuse to pay 1 penny in such taxing and whoever tries to shake me down for such mob-like extortion will be endangering themselves.
PS: Shame on Steven Harper and John Baird for even paying lip service to such Kyoto-esque inanity…give your heads a shake and stop playing with loonies…it gives their moonbat blathering credibly where none is warranted.
Did you pay a few bucks extra to reflect the full costs of producing and using that snowblower or lawnmower or ski-boat? Because the CYD did for their flights, so if you didn’t, the kids are still one-up on you.
Posted by: Orton Park at December 15, 2007 12:42 PM
No, the CYD didn’t actually “neutralize” the CO2 produced by their selfish journey. They simply bought carbon credits from a scammer who will probably use the money to buy himself a ski boat. Or an Escalade with spinner hubcaps.
Mark Steyn had some interesting facts in his column today:
The American Thinker’s Web site ran the numbers. In the seven years between the signing of Kyoto in 1997 and 2004, here’s what happened:
•Emissions worldwide increased 18.0 percent;
•Emissions from countries that signed the treaty increased 21.1 percent;
•Emissions from nonsigners increased 10.0 percent; and
•Emissions from the United States increased 6.6 percent.
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/child-birth-homeless-1942317-year-percent
The new Website..
http://www.carboncatalog.org/blog/
** Some believe it is also a good way to make a fortune. By 2010, the emissions trading market is estimated to skyrocket up to $100 billion; the dominant players today being two Western bodies – the Chicago Climate Exchange and the European Climate Exchange. Hong Kong could be next, if analysts’ forecasts are correct.**
============
Hope this is not * Oil for Food II * = TG
I vote for condoms to be given a carbon credit.
They prevent child birth and population explosion thus saving the planet.
Viagra will need to pay up,perhaps an exchange between the two.
ET,
did you say . . .?
* * It’s a money scam. The fact is, that you are far, far behind in analysis of Kyotoism…
Posted by: ET at December 15, 2007 1:46 PM **
= TG
ooops! Car won’t start.Didn’t plug in,saving the world from warming,you know.Now I will take my truck,it only gets 20 mpg. What am I to do?
Well, I’m staying with ponzi. Anyway, as of the last mail I received from StratFor, I think we can safely say that the Bali talks basically collapsed (pending Monday’s summary report). They agreed to keep talking. Of course, that’s what they’re paid to do — did you expect them to resign ;-?
Students of Yes Prime Minister surely know that any conference which produces nothing more than an agreement to have another conference is (1) a failure, from Hacker’s perspective, and (2) a success, from Humphrey’s perspective.
Still, the question remains, why did the talks collapse? My working conjecture is that the mandarins working behind the scenes know danm well the prospectus is not tractable, and the rest of this three-ring circus is all just a convenient distraction for the masses, employer for the trough-feeders, and cover for the oligarchs and putocrats.
China and the developing countries said, nope, we can’t do that.
Australia, Canada, Japan, and the U.S. said, nope, we can’t do that.
And so they didn’t.
In other words, the Bali conference was a success.