It’s well covered in the news, of course, but here’s a roundup at Pajamas Media.
Austin Bay;
Returning kidnapped sailors and marines is no gift.
The kidnappings gave Iran a temporary shift in media attention — away from UNSC sanctions and Tehran’s nuclear weapons program.
With the kidnappings the mullahs also tossed down a marker in the “intel war” they are waging with the US. Or at least one very hardline faction in Iran’s mullah-dom laid down a marker. The US has at least five Iranian agents in custody. The “defection or disappearance” of a former deputy defense minister has certainly embarassed the regime. The hostage taking also muted that story (though NPR’s All Things Considered covered it on Monday — good job, too.)
More links there, too.
I can’t help but think the Brit’s rolled over big time on this one.
The videos of British sailors falsely acknowledging that they were operating in Iranian waters have now been broadcast throughout Iran and indeed throughout the world. Mission accomplished. The British sailors will soon be released. …
Posted by: Terry Gain at April 2, 2007 10:14 PM
My first guess is, Ahmadinejad wants to burnish up the image of the Iranian government. Remember the sanctions?
I have to agree with the bear on this one. I couldn’t imagine a WW2 soldier or sailor caving the way these 15 did. I can’t help but think that Brits in general are not impressed with the 15’s lack of resolve and fortitude. I know that I definitely am not.
I couldn’t help but notice this:
Not that I’m expecting any women’s rights groups (SOW) to get particularly angry over it. After all, they _like_ supporting terrorists.
My thoughts exactly, about them caving in.
These 15 sailors need to go to jail for the way they acted. Who knows what else they gave up?
Weak, just weak….giving in the the enemy.
http://federalgossip.blogspot.com
In the little creep’s press spin he calls on Tony Blair not to arrest and imprison the sailors for telling the truth.
Like they do in Iran, I guess.
Ahmadinjihad is a cartoon, a diabolical cartoon, but a cartoon nonetheless.
Perhaps there’s a lesson to be learned here.
There’s two factions vying for control in Iran, the Mullahs and Imadinnerjacket and his cronies. Neither
is acceptable to most right-minded people however
the relative short time these hostages were held leads me to believe that the Mullahs took this one.
I agree with rattfuc; there’s a power struggle going on in Iran and I think the Mullahs won versus Ahmadinejad (I like rattfuc’s version of Imadinnerjacket).
As for the 15 British, they should have refused to comply with their being used as propaganda; there was no way they would have been harmed; the publicity was too worldwide for Iran to get away with that – so, the 15 should have refused to comply.
And again, where was the UN? This was not a British action; it was not part of the Iraq war; it was a UN operation being carried out by the Brits for the UN. Where was/is the UN???
When I actually know the extent of the pressure put on sailors by Iran, or instructions on capture given, then it will be possible to render opinion on sailors’ conduct. My ex-military intuition is telling me some posters are being way to hard on them. We will see, though.
Same goes for SOPs and ROEs. It’s also the same same for Iran’s conduct. As soon as sailors confirmed safe, GB should put the hammer to Iran up to, and possibly, including, military action. For sure, any Iranian ship of any kind that comes near a Brit ship must be immediately fired upon and sunk if it does not withdraw. For sure, boarding parties must be escorted/protected by other than small arms, the 50 calibre machine gun being an obvious choice. If this is not sufficient, then go bigger. Bottom line, give Iran a real good spanking; they get away with this crap way too often and, as a rogue state, are not entitled to niceties of diplomacy and international law. (insert bleating here)
Who exactly chose to term the release of illegally detained British personnel “A GIFT” ??
Huh?
Just another load of crap from a tin pot lunatic and the MSM providing the stage!
Looks like the socialist PeeCee idiots have succeeded in castrating Britain.
Shamrock has a point. It’s amazing how big and brassy people’s balls are behind a keyboard. Put any of you guys in the hands of the mullahs and then we’ll see.
…before some start hyperventilating, remember that area is a powder keg, last thing we need is someone to pressing a button.
Think for a second, the sailors, they are all literally kids. They are not hardened mercenaries or Rambo soldiers – probably the only war they know of is games like DOOM and Strike Force 2.
If anything they probably feel the inspections are a waste of time.
So don’t blame them, blame the ship captains and military brass, command structure and leaders in Britain for not supporting the sailors when they board ships.
Heck even if this was an attack, where is the backup, what is the protocol, procedure?
To me was this was the gross error – leaving those kids unprotected, not them surrendering.
Too many loose ends, I do find it hard to swallow that in an potential war zone there was no warning given of these fast boats approaching, let alone no British boats shooting a warning shot as they approached.
Plus, there has to be a lot more hardware floating or swimming around the Persian gulf than one lonely British frigate.
This event does have the appearance of being too staged, the kids as cannon fodder, but then again, easy to say from the warmth of my home.
Time will tell, but I for one am glad this worked out peacefully, Politically Correct venues or not.
The war will come, but not soon hopefully.
Pardoning is for convicts, there has been no hearing, so this is a farce. This is a big oops on the Iranian side. Some gears must have come into motion that made the mullahs to make s rush decision to release the boys and gal.
Did anyone ever see all 15 British personnel in any photo or video, all at the same time? I haven’t.
I can believe that in any given photo or video issued by Iran exhibiting the hostages that the ones who were not in the picture at the time were off-screen with guns held to their heads. So, one has a choice, say what the captors want, or watch a fellow hostage have a *dreadful accident* ‘while attempting to escape’.
So, what would any one of your decisions be under the same circumstances? It’s a tough one to answer.
So, I would like to think that GB would get the 15 returned, and then go for a few pounds of flesh. But, I fear that what will happen is a sigh of relief and then on with matters as usual. Until the next provocation.
Per Rattfuc, “Imadinnerjacket” invited the 15 for a holiday at Iranian expense.
Your dinner is served!
Ahmadinejad still comes off, for propaganda purposes, to the local Iranian population as a great guy.
Iran seized the 15, interrogated the detainees, got them to publicly apologize for trespass, and looks magnanimous by ‘pardoning’ them, implying guilt on the part of the British.
Basically, Ahmadinejad played this like marionettes. In days gone by, detaining military personnel without declaration of war, would be considered an act of war.
By holding them and having a ‘show trial’ this would then turn into a tacit declaration of hostilities. Iran did not want to get into an out and out dust up, knowing full well that a number of carrier groups were hovering off their coastline. The recent pounding of Hassan Nasrallah by the IDF would have figured into the possible consequences of “Little Satan” being replaced by the “Great Satan”.
Also the hostage crisis takes the worlds eyes off the UNSC rebuke on the nuclear file. Also Chirac’s recent ‘raze Tehran’ statement in this overall context was hardly helpful in ameliorating the ME situation. Given the loss of one of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard generals and other detentions in Iraq, this was a way to regain international standing for home population purposes.
Of course this offer of magnanimity takes place with theocratic religious overtones of the run up to the Christian holiday of Easter and the Muslim’
s own celebration of birth of Mohammed which for Shia Muslims is celebrated on April 5th or 17th of Rabi’-ul-Awwal based on the lunar calendar.
The UN of course was at it’s usual attentive self; “asleep at the switch”.
Dawgshit: I will not believe a single word you write in defense of your position until you scan and show us a graphic image of your membership card in the Communist Party.
Well, commiehawk?
I also think that we are being hard on the sailors.
Many people join the forces because it offers a better life, and while they may agree with the lofty ideals that we behind our keyboards would like them to exhibit, for many it is just a job.
It would have been nice to see some signs of defiance
but it was what it was.
I would like to see the Brits stick it to Iran but luckily for Iran, Maggie is not there
Ahmadinejad is critical of the RN for sending a mother away from her child is he? What a sawed off little jerk. This is the same guy who encourages and then praises parents, that includes mothers the last time I looked, for sending their children away to detonate C4 wrapped in nails duct taped around their waists amongst other innocent men women (mothers) and children. Can’t the west figure out how to give this guy a third eye courtesy of a .50cal sniper rifle.
Back in 1997 the US government, as “a goodwill gesture toward Iran’s newly elected reform-minded president, Mohammad Khatami” listed the People’s Mujahedin of Iran as a terrorist organization. Canada followed suit, as did the European Union.
Well, there are clearly no reformers left in the Iranian government and they are increasingly hostile to the west. So why are we still protecting them from their enemies? Why are we preventing Canadians from supporting the Iranian resistance?
Obviously we can’t count on the Royal Navy or our own government to fight Iran, so why not just have them get out of the way and let us fund those who will?
dawg – since you are a postmodernist, then, anything you say is irrelevant because it is completely open to any and all interpretations. As such, I become the valid interpretor of your words. My interpretation is that you are, as is usual with a postmodernist, waffling.
My own view (and I’m not a postmodernist so my views remain mine)…is that the British should not have complied with the Iranians – including wearing a hijab. After all, IF the woman was threatened with either harm to herself or to others if she didn’t wear that headscarf, the Iranians would know that she would, upon release, tell the world of that threat.
Same with the other behaviour of showing on the map that they were in Iranian waters. Since the UK ship had data that showed that they were in Iraqi waters – then, this was an empty action.
I agree with Hans Ruprecht’s outline..it was a propaganda scheme for internal use; however, I think that the Mullahs won this round over Ahmadinejad.
So this is like adscam covering up that Paul Martin got 161 million tax dollars via CSL.
Might have been interesting if they were released in a different order.
Who rembers the 161 I wonder?
What a guy.
Almost makes you forget the illegal nuclear program and the holocaust denial. And Zara Khazemi (who was a mother too).
I hope this is the result of some serious threats having been made. Achmed-jihad probably would have preferred to jerk us around for a lot longer.
I wonder if this was a test of Britain’s resolve, and willingness to engage the enemy, conducted for Hugo Chavez, by his good friend.
Remember earlier this year Chavez was calling for Britain to return the Maldives to Argentina.
If so, it should indicate clear sailing for the Argentines to retake their islands.
I’m gonna wait to hear why the hostages agreed to be filmed.
“Zahra Kazemi died in Iranian custody on July 11, 2003, almost three weeks after she was arrested for taking pictures …”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kazemi/
– “Think for a second, the sailors, they are all literally kids.”
You may be right about that as adolescence can often extend well into ones 40’s these days. But I see young Brits and Canadian’s doing pretty damn good in Afghanistan. Most of the sailors fighting the battle of the Atlantic were of the same age or younger. And they weren’t doing it in tropical seas with beer breaks in Abu Dhabi every few weeks.
– “ I also think that we are being hard on the sailors.”
The certainly seem to be poorly trained and lead. Were their officers incompetent? If so should they should be court marshaled.
Was the Captain working under ridiculous rules of engagement? Then he should resign his command on principle. Ultimately this fiasco should be laid at the feet those that put Blair and Co. in charge.
The biggest theater in the War against Islamists is propaganda and The West lost again.
“The biggest theater in the War against Islamists is propaganda and The West lost again.”
True. But words don’t kill, unless it is “press the #$%#$% button”.
Remember the ’79 coup and what they did to the American’s then, this was Sunday school.
All in all, I’m glad it is over. No doubt behind the scenes something was going on. Whether it was “let them go, now, or face a glass parking lot”, or “ok do your thing, but don’t hurt them”.
Seeing Easter isn’t till the weekend, the timing indicates the former statement.
Okay, now I will fess up to the letter I sent to Dr. Ahmadinejad. Note in particular the link to the “German Coast Guard” video.
Signed with my 1st St. Nicolaas Army handle now you should all understand the “gift of the British sailors”
Sometimes you have to know how to play, but most importantly never ever lose your sense of humour.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
From: Hans Rupprecht
Sent: February 1, 2007 11:36 AM
To: ‘dr-ahmadinejad@president.ir’
Cc: ‘PMO’; ‘oconnor.g@parl.gc.ca’; ‘mackay.p@parl.gc.ca’; ‘Institute for Public Affairs of Montreal’; ‘comments@whitehouse.gov’; ‘vice_president@whitehouse.gov’; ‘angelmerkel@bundesregierung.de’; ‘benedictxvi@vatican.va’; ‘jaquot@palais-elisee.nospam.fr’
Subject: Humour and Holocaust
Dear Dr Ahmadinejad,
News reports have suggested that your country’s recent Holocaust denial conference has upset not a few around the world.
You can check out the Holocaust cartoons at the following web page:
http://www.irancartoon.com/120/holocaust/index.htm
I am writing to you today, to help improve your humour. Attached below are some samples for your perusal.
As you are an avid follower/maker of world events I thought I would keep you up to date on world events.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1876164,00.html
Iran Sends Blair Invitation to Holocaust Conference
This seems to have upset Tony and Angela.
It seems you have upset some in the White House as well.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/12/20061212.html
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
December 12, 2006
Statement on Holocaust Denial Conference Sponsored by Iranian Regime
The United States condemns the conference on the Holocaust convoked by the Iranian regime on Monday in Tehran. While people around the world mark International Human Rights Week and renew the solemn pledges of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, which was drafted in the wake of the atrocities of World War II, the Iranian regime perversely seeks to call the historical fact of those atrocities into question and provide a platform for hatred. The gathering of Holocaust deniers in Tehran is an affront to the entire civilized world, as well as to the traditional Iranian values of tolerance and mutual respect. The United States will continue to support those in Iran and elsewhere who seek to promote human rights and dignity, and will stand with them in their efforts to overcome oppression, injustice, and tyranny.
It looks like those ‘bad armies’ I suggested to you some time ago have arrived as the following article noted.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061001&articleId=3361
The March to War: Naval build-up in the Persian Gulf and the Eastern Mediterranean.
If you are going to do humour about German history, I am afraid you need a little help from someone with a long german history.
It appears that the EU is adopting EURO-ENGLISH as the new language of commerce as set out below.
English for the European Union
The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English
will be the official language of the European Union rather than German,
which was the other possibility.
As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that
English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-
year phase-in plan that would become known as “Euro-English”.
In the first year, “s” will replace the soft “c”. Sertainly, this will
make the sivil servants jump with joy.
The hard “c” will be dropped in favour of “k”. This should klear up
konfusion, and keyboardskanhave one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the
troublesome “ph” will be replaced with “f”. This will make words like
fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spellingkanbe expekted
to reach the stage where! more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have
always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent “e” in the languag
is disgrasful and it should go away.
By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing “th”
with “z” and “w” with “v”.
During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary “o” kan be dropd from vords kontaining
“ou” and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.
Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu
understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.
Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze
forst plas.
Now that you have mastered EURO-ENGLISH visit the weblink below and find out why this might be an unwelcome development!!
The new and improved GERMAN EURO-ENGLISH coast guard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrYRY6kx550
Or you can watch the attached avi file above.
It seems that you have some trouble with inflation and tomatoes as well.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2000305,00.html
Well with those big carrier groups loitering around the Iranian coastline, I am sure they have their kitchens well stocked with tomatoes grown in California. There is no doubt that the US Navy would be willing to toss you a few tomatoes from their kitchen.
Lastly, you should always remember that the Germans also invented Oktoberfest which usually involves drinking lots of beer. This is why Hitler started his revolution in a beer hall. We have found it somewhat troubling that some are trying to emulate him. Something that historians have never really adequately explained is why would a teetotaller be found in a beer hall?
Maybe some historians will soon write a book entitled “Hitler: The Real Story of what ALE’D him.”.
After a good days battle you should always throw a big party, like my grandfather did attached in the picture above.
This leads to the following humour in geopolitical analysis.
This is an “Il” defined problem, because “Mah-mood” has been suppressed of late. We’ve been “Putin” up with a lot of nonsense, because we don’t know “Hu” or “Wen” it will happen. But I firmly believe if I “Harper” or grouse a lot, that eventually the pheasantasy will be flushed from the “Bush”. I find it rather re”Merkel”ble to find over the “Blair” of the media, that they don’t know “Jacques”.
Regards
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht BGS, PDP, CFP
Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
CC: Tony Blair, George Bush, Dick Cheney, Angela Merkel, Jacques Chirac, Stephen Harper, Beryl “one of the Wajsman” and last but not least, that righteous dude Pope “Benny”.
Shoppers see red and President feels the heat over tomatoes
Robert Tait finds the Iranian people and parliament in revolt
Robert Tait in Tehran
Sunday January 28, 2007
The Observer
History is not littered with cases of heads of state being brought down by the price of tomatoes but, with his critics growing by the day, Iran’s President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, could be in danger of earning such a distinction.
Besieged by denunciations of his economic and nuclear policies, the President was put further on the defensive last week by MPs complaining that the cost of tomatoes had soared to 30,000 rial (£1.65) a kilo – an unthinkable price in a country where the average worker scrapes by on £225 a month.
Prices subsequently slipped back in response to the outcry. But the startling statistic crystallised popular anger over runaway inflation, which has eaten into the living standards of the army of low-income Iranians whom Ahmadinejad came to office pledging to help.
The ever-combative President had a ready riposte. The prices quoted were not representative, he claimed. MPs should visit his local fruit and vegetable store in the middle-class Narmak neighbourhood in east Tehran, where tomatoes cost much less.
The tiny store sits around the corner from the modest home Ahmadinejad vacated on assuming the presidency. According to staff, none of his family has shopped there for months. The President might have been advised to have done so before recommending it as a haven for the thrifty. He would have found a shop no longer stocking tomatoes due to their prohibitive price and an owner desperate to sell up.
“Iran to free sailors as ‘gift’ to British people’
Quick get Borat on the blower. I’ve got a business model for him.
“The Liberal Party of Canada is returning all dat Adcam money as ‘gift’ to Canadian piples”
Wayne in Wetaskiwin
One of those “sailors” is a frickin Captain in the Royal Marines! Hardly a “kid” (in WW II we had majors of the same age leading hundreds of men in the liberation of Holland )- those guys are quasi-special forces (like the US Rangers, but wetter). He was the one who did the briefing in front of a map. How likely is he to ever get the respect of the men assigned to his unit ever again? Stick a fork in him, he’s done.
Acmahdinejad gained very little and in fact lost face here.
The military provides no sensitive information to front line swabs who are at risk of capture, for their own safety.
So nothing was learned. The Kuds gained no inside info.
You can bet *Madmud*s* submariners are sitting around the Hormuz depths with white knuckles and knees knocking.
With a third US carrier on the way, you can detect a lighter step so as not to trip the sledge hammer trigger. = TG
This was not an incident, over which those sailors had to get their pants in the knot. I am 100% sure they were threatened with immediate death or torture and did not see a need to be tortured. Those here who think they should have instead demonstrated cheap heroism, need a reality check – you are dealing not with lawful Canadian RCMP, but with the insane religious fanatics, obeying the orders of other fanatics out of fear of death, torture and death or torture to their families. A dreadful cocktail indeed.
Do you have liberal friends?
They will be awakened with this little movie.
patriotfiles.org/civilizationcalls.htm
A bit dramatic but very clear. Takes a few moments to load. Be patient, It*s worth it.
= TG
I heard Blair say the following…
“We bear you no ill will. On the contrary, we respect Iran as an ancient civilisation, as a nation with a proud and dignified history.”
“The disagreements we have with your government we wish to resolve peacefully through dialogue. I hope – as I’ve always hoped – that in the future we are able to do so.” (from http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6525905.stm)
…and was utterly shocked. The printed word does not convey the tone – the cringing toadying of a lap dog. How can anyone be so naïve?
dawg – since you are a postmodernist, then, anything you say is irrelevant because it is completely open to any and all interpretations. As such, I become the valid interpretor of your words. My interpretation is that you are, as is usual with a postmodernist, waffling.
ET: Please do a little reading about current textual theory. You’re making a caricature of yourself. A plurality of readings doesn’t mean “anything goes” (to quote Feyerabend). We all manage to communicate here, if sometimes with difficulty. 🙂
I don’t see how I am “waffling” by suggesting that the ballsy ones here might be a little meeker if they were in the hands of the Iranians. Keyboard warriors irritate me. Clear enough?
Tenebris,
Blair is a politico and an actor. There is a time for walking quietly and a time to take off the safety.
Now is the time for playing along. Changes in Iran may come from within. Making a big bravado fuss only shoots gas prices up and gives *Madmud* an out from the wrath of his own people.
Better they hate him rather than us for breaking their infrastructure. Besides, if we precision bomb their Nuke plant it would likely kill Russian nuclear teams, upsetting Putin. = TG
>>>”Same goes for SOPs and ROEs. It’s also the same same for Iran’s conduct. As soon as sailors confirmed safe, GB should put the hammer to Iran up to, and possibly, including, military action. For sure, any Iranian ship of any kind that comes near a Brit ship must be immediately fired upon and sunk if it does not withdraw. For sure, boarding parties must be escorted/protected by other than small arms, the 50 calibre machine gun being an obvious choice. If this is not sufficient, then go bigger. Bottom line, give Iran a real good spanking; they get away with this crap way too often and, as a rogue state, are not entitled to niceties of diplomacy and international law. (insert bleating here)
Posted by: Shamrock at April 4, 2007 12:25 PM”
No dawg – you are not clear. I stand by my comments on the postmodernist rejection of the author, which is not equivalent to a plurality of readings. You yourself in a past post affirmed that conclusion of ‘the death of the author’ (Barthes – yuck).
If you do not permit criticism of the behaviour of someone else, ‘unless and until’ one is in that same situation – this essentially means that one cannot question or analyze any behaviour that one has not already, onself, experienced. That’s an impossible requirement.
It also implies that one cannot model beforehand and thus predict, and thus attempt to control, future behaviour. That would preclude all strategic planning – whether in the fields of the military, the police, or even, in business and personal situations.
Alba39
“And turn a resolvable international incident into a real shooting war? Not a good idea.”
Resolve it how? You really are a limp dick. I can just see you now down on your knee-pads giving the dinnerjacket a much needed congratulatory blow.
Iran is run by mad-men. So in clear english: you cannot negotiate with mad-men..they are just plain nuts.
I think the little pud-puller in Iran there got a flashback to the “easter present” the US sent Moammar Gaddafi after he had sufficently POed the west with a series of stupid hostage/terror stunts.
Maybe he recalled how the US sent a cruise missle to literally knock on the front door of gaddafi’s presidential palace…he was unfortunately not home at the time….but it’s the gift of giving that counts 😉
WL, bang on. Excuse the pun.
Like I said, some back room talks got this going fast as Easter and Momo’s birthday is still a few days, weeks away.
Probably got a Fed-Ex package with photo’s of his house being loaded into the guidance system of a cruise missile so to speak…