“When did you become convinced global warming is caused by human activity?”
Who did they get to write this stuff – Decima??
Here’s one at the Star for your Saturday enjoyment. Scroll down, it’s on the left – “Will the latest report on climate change prompt you to make changes in your lifestyle?”
“Who did they get to write this stuff – Decima??”
No. Jason Cherniak. In a red sweater vest. In our cities. In Canada.
I am going to scream if I have to hear anymore of this global warming nonsense.
Incredible. That’s like the old example we always use in Statistics and Scientific Methods classes of the INVALID question:
“When did you stop beating your wife’?
It’s invalid because there’s an unstated assumption that you DO beat your wife. To make it valid, you first have to ask:
‘Do you beat your wife’?
The CTV question falls within the same fallacy. It sets up two axioms as indisputable ‘givens’. It is assuming that (1)global warming is a fact; and (2) that it is caused by human activity. And, the only question it asks – is when did YOU become convinced of these ‘truths’? It never doubts the validity of these two axioms.
By the way, removing those two axioms from doubt, immediately removes them from the scientific realm and moves them into pure dogma.
Kate…check out the TO Star’s survey. http://www.thestar.com/default. It’s about 1/2 way down on left. Almost as much fun as the CTV’s!!!
“When did you become convinced…”
It’s almost as though they are asking, “When did the poison start to take…”? or, “When did you start to believe this crap”? or “In the future, what do we need to tell you in order to have you drink this kool-aid”?
It’s so presumptuous, it isn’t often that I “just walk away” from a poll, but this does it for me.
The poll doesn’t scare me. This does:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/02/03/3515674-ap.html
The picture is fitting.
This is the poll i got a chuckle out of:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/HTMLTemplate?&tf=ctv/generic/hubs/ctvNewsSub.html&cf=ctv/generic/hubs/ctvNews.cfg&id=51012&pollid=51012&save=_save&show_vote_always=no&poll=CTVNewsTopStories&hub=TopStories&subhub=VoteResult
Prince Charles decided to fly commercial airlines rather than private jet for enviroment reasons.Some moron at ctv who never did their homework thought it was about him flying first class.Brilliant!
“When did you become convinced…”
Is a religious question for new converts. In the hierarchy of the religion, those who converted earlier are wiser and more powerful.
See how they use this question on Harper (ie. “The road to Damascus”), always with the assumption that he’s lying, that he’s not really a convert, that he’s a spy in the church.
If like the Heavens Gate cult, all the faithful of this new eviroreligion would commit mass suicide, GHG would be solved. And the rest of us could get on with our lives.
Top this one. I guess some people just don’t appreciate the anchor businesses supporting their town. Note that the poll will change daily so look for Feb 2.
ET, excellent post. It states the case in a rational, concise manner that one seldom sees in this sort of debate.
Thank you.
Try this.
http://calgary.ctv.ca/generic/generated/polls/pollResult.html
Here’s a few more points on CO2 I haven’t heard anyone mention.
As far as I know CO2 is heavier than air so it sinks straight to the ground where it is absorbed by plants and turned back into oxygen.
Why hasn’t the govt. announced a massive tree planting campain and an end to all forestry for the good of the planet if this is such a serious danger? Trees and plants should be flourishing now with all the extra CO2 that they need to grow.
How can CO2 trap heat in the atmosphere if it sits BELOW the atmosphere right at the ground level?
Has anybody ever showed a lab test where they proved that CO2 can trap heat in a controlled experiment? If not shouldn’t that be the first thing to do to prove global warming?
If CO2 is trapping sunlight from bouncing back into space causing the earth to be warmer ( greenhouse effect), then wouldn’t it be blocking the same amount of light on the way in?
If the earth does warm up won’t the oceans and lakes just evaporate faster and produce more clouds to block out the sun? It seems to me the earth already has a natural system in place to prevent global warming that’s been working for millions of years.
Bart: i just went & read that, your right
France Pres.Chirac wants to creat “A new World Order”
Now that is Scary
BTW: Remember back in the 70’s 80’s we were being bombarded with,the planet is going into another ICEAGE, Do you ever here of Ozone Depletion anymore?
Well lake effect snowsqualls here in Grey/Bruce counties & Gust’s up to 60, -18windchill now i know thats not as bad as outwest but could we Pleeeeaaase get some global warming here.
number one concern for voters today is the enviornemt/global warming
when buying a car,38500 people ranked the enviormentle impact as 23’d of 26 considerations for the purchase of their choice
don’t lieberals buy cars?????
Another thing I find alarming that has arisen out of the climate change debate is less obvious:
the attack on science itself as a viable and reliable means of making determinations about reality.
Anyone who has perused some of my posts realizes that I consider a lot of matters to be outside of the scientific realm. And in fact I challenge the idea that science can be an arbiter about everything that exists as a human concern.
However, even I am quite content to recognize that science is our primary method of addressing questions about reality in our present era.
Science is our contemporary mode of epistemology (how do we know what we know), and it is vitally important that we all have some kind of common agreement that the yardstick we use to determine what is real can be agreed upon. And even though I don’t believe that the scientific yardstick can accomodate everything that humans need to know, I do agree that it is the very servicable yardstick we use most of the time.
Cognitive dissonance haunts our societies and cultures like schizophrenic ghosts. The glue that holds our ability to negotiate reality together has been shatttered into a million pieces.
We used to have pretty universal agreement about religion, and now religion is a hugely contentious subject with exponents from every point of view. We used to believe that government was a sane and wise and intelligent and conscientious guiding hand, and now we know government to be a source of endless stupidity, malevolence, and opportunism. The family used to be the unit of which we could all depend, and now people wish to redefine the entire nature of marriage, etc., etc., and I could go on like this through one reliable pillar after another that has been shattered from its place of being a touchstone we could depend upon.
Today it might almost be possible to say that if you’re in the middle of the bell-shaped curve, you are probably insane.
With science we used to be able to say that even though it might not be able to address everything that humans need to know, what it did address was reliable so far as we knew.
In health care, space science, biochemistry, on and on through the huge number of subjects that science addresses, we could be secure that the best judgements about the reality of these subjects was delivered to us by science. One of the last bastions of reliability in a schizophrenic world.
Today this climate change BS is demontrating that scientists can be as manipulated and delusional as every other factor we used to rely on. Apparently, scientists are just as willing to submerge their results to accomplish some trendy political football as anyone else.
Massage data, non sequiturs for conclusions, delusional outcomes offered up as fact, dishonesty offered as substance… this is what the subject of climate change is teaching all of us.
If our societies were people, they would have to be institutionalized for their own safety.
Another thing I have thought about this. The CO2 we are releasing through burning fossil fuels is not “man made ” like they are telling us. It is natural CO2 that was trapped underground at some point in history. We know the earth used to be warmer (dinosaurs once lived in Alberta) and it wasn’t a desert because the dinosaurs had to be eating something(and a lot of it) What if the same event that wiped out the dinosaurs trapped every plant and tree underground trapping the NATURAL CO2 underground and causing the earth to be LOW in CO2 and artificialy cool? Maybe we are just starting to restore the earth back to its natural balance now and it is turning back to the tropical paradise it is supposed to be. Just a theory I came up with that’s worth debating.
The high in Toronto today is -8 Celsius.
You know, thank God for that global warming, I would hate to think how we would get by the next few days without it.
Morons. Killing an idiot should come with a citation, not a jail sentence.
After heating my home, my personal carbon footprint is largely governed by how fast I drive my vehicle.
I really p*ss off a lot of GTA latte-SUV-liberal drivers because I drive the limit. Why? Because, I save money, and it’s safer. I am the sole earner in my family.
If you really believe in the athropogenic global warming BS, then reduce the speed you drive on the 4xx series roads in the GTA. Or shut up. One of the two.
i’ll jump on board this nonsense when pepsi and coke stop carbonating their drinks. lol
Aren’t those smoke stacks in the Red Star the same coal fired generating staions that McAsswipe promised to close four years ago.Then of course he got elected dictator.
My answer to the poll – about 6 months ago.
Do a little research of your own.
Try http://www.realclimate.org for starters
Read the article by Kerry Emanuel for a good overview. Read the IPCC report for yourself.
Read the forum discussions for the last couple of years. Check out the links.
Educate yourself on the history of our planet over the last 4.5 billion years.
Do I think that there may be other factors not yet understood that might mitigate some of the modeled outcomes? Yes – because our climate is a complex system but keep in mind that life on the planet is part of the feedback mechanism that stops the planet from becoming like Venus or Mars.
Why would you think that humanity wouldn’t be part of that feedback? Did you think that acid rain or lead pollution were fantasies?
Do I think that global warming is being used by some to further their own agenda – of course it is and the part that really bothers me is that the global effort that will be required to address the issue is a perfect stepping stone for a new world order. I take it that most of you here think that it is the other way around.
so according to G&M polls, 50% of respondents attribute Global Warming to “human activity is to blame”; yet, 86% answer “but only if governments and industries around the world also join the fight” to the latest question “…are you prepared to make some sacrifice in your own standard of living to help fight global warming”.
Doesn’t anyone see a disconnect between these 2 questions?
Poll #1:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/poll/pollResultHub?id=51553&pollid=51553&save=_save&show_vote_always=no&poll=GAMFront&hub=Front&subhub=VoteResult
Poll #2:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/poll/pollResultHub?id=51692&pollid=51692&answerid=63393&poll=GAMFront&save=_save51692&show_vote_always=no&hub=Front&subhub=VoteResult&vote=63393
doug newton – what do you mean by a ‘new world order’? It sounds rather utopian and totalitarian to me. That is, it sounds as if it would be imposed from above (by the Wise Men).
A lot of people on this and other blogs ARE educated; they know the history of the planet since its emergence (4.5 billion ya).They understand the complexities of climate change, and far better than the apocalpytic hysteria that we are now seeing in our MSM. And in the NDP and Liberal parties.
Pollution and carbon emissions are not the same. Furthermore, you are ignoring the role of adaptive evolution. Biological species adapt; they don’t simply ‘go extinct’. (eg the infamous Pepper Moth adaptation, adaptation of bacteria to antibiotics, etc). And for every species that goes extinct, another species (or more) emerges to use that energy.
Again, I’m not sure what you mean by a ‘new world order’ or that ‘most of you think it’s the other way around’. What is ‘it’? And what are you implying? Don’t be ambiguous! Speak out!
How many drivers on the 401 ignored all weather warnings and storm warnings about what was going to happen that day, and got in their cars and drove, causing accidents, death and road closures. Yet, these same liberal drivers believe what some idiots of kyotology say will happen in 100 years. Pay more attention to today, not in 100 years when your foolishness will be discredited.
We should all prepare a time capsule for our families to open in 100 years, containing all the fear mongoring re climate. We have had climate change every year. It is called winter, spring, summer and fall. Business depend on these changes, and when they don’t happen as soon as they are supposed to, or last longer, they suffer profit loss. Wasn’t Ont in a fit because the ski season might not happen, and how about skating in Ottawa. They did stories on that voice of truth, the cbc, showing retailers bemoaning they were not selling snow shovels, parkas, skates etc.
CO2 is a necessity of life, for animals, humans and plants. Dion wants to eliminate CO2, to kill all plant life.
I also notice he is wearing a green ribbon, is that to show support for the Hezzbolah terrorists, isn’t their color green. Didn’t Codere march in support of Hezzbolah. Isn’t a green head covering what suicide bombers use, with a red (liberal color) headband. Is Dion sending a message to all terrorist supporters in canada that he is with them, vote liberal.
Well tried, Doug Newton, well tried. No one here is interested in finding out whether or not global warming is happening. They already know it isnt happening. And you know why it isnt happening? Because if it is, then policy changes will have an adverse impact on American industry. Trust me when I say that there are a number of people here who would rather fly the American flag. Just observe this boards obsession with the Iraq war/crisis.
And yes it true, people here are against a global effort. However, they are all for American self interest, so if you can get Bush to endorse this report, everyone here will become such rabid environmentalists that they would probably make the green party look like moderates. Its not a matter of what is being said, but rather who is saying it. Remember, Bush and the Republicans have a monopoly on “the truth”. Scientists dont know what they re talking about. Bush knows everything. Like Chuck Norris.
Jeremiah,
I fly the American flag.
My landlord knows Chuck Norris.
You know, one of the things that’s always weird to me is that Canadians would object to the idea that it was getting warmer.
Down here in Texas and in Arizona the summers get so hot you could fry an egg on the sidewalk, so you would expect all the gripes to be coming from us.
But in Canada if you could start selling tropical real estate developments up in the Yukon, I would think that everybody would be all for it.
Doug Newton:
I’m not disputing that the climate is warming…it probably is; climate has been cyclical for apparently millions of years. What I am skeptical of is the notion that it is all man’s fault, and even more, the utter conceit that man can do something material to actually change climate.
I also have problems with the fact that the data about climate change in the Kyoto process reportedly used to include the medieval warm period as well as the little ice age, and, when that didn’t produce the results the researchers wanted, was deleted and *presto* the now infamous “hockey stick” temperature graph resulted. And allowed the Kyoto-ologists to shriek that it was all man’s fault. I’ve ripped of the Wikipedia discussion about the warm period for illustration purposes:
“The Medieval Warm Period was a time of unusually warm weather around 800-1300 AD, during the European Medieval period. Initial research on the MWP and the following Little Ice Age (LIA) was largely done in Europe, where the phenomenon was most obvious and clearly documented.
It was initially believed that the temperature changes were global. However, this view has been questioned; the 2001 IPCC report summarises this research, saying “…current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this time frame, and the conventional terms of ‘Little Ice Age’ and ‘Medieval Warm Period’ appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries”.[1]
Palaeoclimatologists developing regionally specific climate reconstructions of past centuries conventionally label their coldest interval as “LIA” and their warmest interval as the “MWP”.[2][3] Others follow the convention and when a significant climate event is found in the “LIA” or “MWP” time frames, associate their events to the period. Some “MWP” events are thus wet events or cold events rather than strictly warm events, particularly in central Antarctica where climate patterns opposite to the North Atlantic area have been noticed.
The Medieval Warm Period partially coincides with the peak in solar activity named the Medieval Maximum (1100–1250).
[edit] Climate events
[edit] North Atlantic and North American regions
During the MWP wine grapes were grown in Europe as far north as southern Britain[4][5][6] although less extensively than they are today[7] (however, factors other than climate strongly influence the commercial success of vineyards, for example wine is made in Alaska today; and the time of greatest extent of medieval vineyards falls outside the MWP). The Vikings took advantage of ice-free seas to colonize Greenland and other outlying lands of the far north. The MWP was followed by the Little Ice Age, a period of cooling that lasted until the 19th century when the current period of global warming began.”
UN Report on Global Warming…AKA…The Nostrodomus Report on Global Warming. All that’s missing are the stanza’s.
Global is no better. Last nite Harper was being interviewed by the Sweety repalcing K.N. and it was more of an inquisition than anything.
I have complained a number of times regarding thier CBC-like slant and I get no response whatsoever.
CRB
Doug and Jeremiah – As ET says we are educated on the topic. I’ve read the reports and concluded that even if I accept everything they say as gospel itself – I’m still in favour of global warming.
I don’t need to deny a single word in an IPCC report to come to the conclusion that the most likely result will be a gentle warming that will produce more benefits than harm. Longer growing seasons, less cold winters, vast areas of uninhabitable tundra becoming productive land, the Sahara greening, all traded against a minor loss of coast. This is supposed to bother me why, exactly?
And if you read the reports as I have, you’d know how pointless all this shrieking is. If I ignore all your shrieking and carry on business as usual I can expect a meter of sea water in my oceanfront beachhouse by the time I retire and have my grandkids visit. If I follow you into your brave new world order and it works out as well as your blessed reports predict I’ll reduce that water level to a mere 95 centimeters!!!! Imagine my enthusiasm.
Now, if I factor in the possibility (certainty) that the Chinese and the peasants of all the Trashcanistans of the world are going to carry on with their lives no matter delusions you have about imposing a new world order, and add to the fact that no serious scientist can really claim to be able to predict a chaotic system like the climate with any precision – I’ll just pass on your new world order.
But what’s your excuse? I fill up my tank without guilt, knowing I’ve studied the topic and I can live with the consequences of my actions.
You, however, think you’re participating in a Bush-Cheney-Halliburton-Exxon planet-baking conspiracy when you fill your tank or heat your house. Why not just stop?
i’ve just read “a canary in a chinese coalmine”
Todays G&M, are they finally getting it?
Now before everybody gets their dandruff up because it’s the G&M, go & read this article. Iam not a great fan of the G&M But this article will open your eyes as to what has been going on in China just as ET & others have been saying for some time now. Also read the comments section i think you will be surprised, Many agree that there needs to be a solution and Kyoto is not the way when China as one of the worst pollutors in the world will not clean up their act & is not compelled to be part of Kyoto. After reading this & other good articles iam more convinced that Dion, Mark Holland & other Pro-Kyoto supporters are taking us down a garden path to Economic ruin, I just don’t get it Why would we send Billions to the one of the worst pollutor’s in the world and soon will be the worst.
The Star poll currently has 53% of responders saying that they shan’t be changing their lifestyle.
Onward march, deniers! Persevere, interiasts!
Greg in Dallas,
On another thread, Jeremiah argued the point that it’s legitimate to compare the behaviour of Islamist barbarians in the 21st century with the behaviour of some Christians in the barbaric 13th century. Disallowing historical context and suspending disbelief in order to justify his brand of moral relativism, thereby giving terrorism a free pass until they catch up in 700 years or so.
A person displaying a moonbat ability to reason like that is hardly worth debating with.
It looks like that’s another poll going horribly wrong 🙂 54% will not make changes
Actually, I want to make changes. Dribve around more and heat the place up a bit.
Libranos seem to have a very strange affinity for all things China. Now, why is that? Is it China the Model? Is this the real Librano secret agenda?
jeremiah. Don’t be arrogant. And ignorant.
Most people here know about ‘global warming’. Now, I’ll only speak for myself because to do otherwise is non-argumentative.
So, intelligent rather than theistic analysis doesn’t buy into the reductionist view that warming is linear. The best science is that climate change is cyclical. For that, you can check out research since the planet began about 4.5 billion ya. Check our, for instance, the Palaeocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum phase; by the way no humans were around then – about 55 mya.
Check out also the various phases of cooling and warming on this planet in the Holocene (when our species appeared); it was an interglacial phase. A previous phase, the Miocene was warm; a next phase the Pliocene was cool..and moved into the Ice Age of the Pleistocene.
The point is, to conclude that there is only ONE cause of climate change (man) and that it is LINEAR (one directional) is ignorant. The climate is complex; there are many causes of climate change, and you ought to check out solar causality. The sun and the earth’s relation to the sun existed long, long before humans. And the climate changed then.
Now, to conclude that our current phase of warming is due to and only to humans – apart from its ignorant rejection of cycles of climate change, assumes that the cause is industrialism. That’s quite an assumption. Industrialism has only been around for less than 200 years. That’s years, not mya (million years ago), not thousands of years. Years.
To assume that our planet’s atmosphere is so unstable that a 200 year slight change in SOME parts of the globe can move the entire planet into a one-way rush to apocalyptic hell, well, it’s ‘stuck in stupid’.
Now, with regard to your ‘global effort’, you are again revealing your ignorance. Kyoto is not a global effort to reduce emissions. It’s a transfer of massive amounts of MONEY from the industrial nations to the non-industrial nations. These latter are EXEMPT (got that?) from emission standards. They will, as China is now doing, use that money, which is not a loan, to build many, many new factories, cheap factories, that will increase both the pollution AND carbon emissions.
I’m sure you are aware that our atmosphere doesn’t give a damn about political boundaries. So, the pollution and emissions in China, and all of the other ‘developing nations’ who are exempt from emissions reduction standards, will rapidly find their way..all across the world.
Could you explain how sending vast sums of money to ‘developing nations’, to build pollution and carbon emission loaded factories – will help this ‘global warming’?
As for your comments on Americans and Bush – that’s pure stupidity on your part. Try, try, as you might, but climate change isn’t due to The Americans and Bush. Grow up – and check out some science. That’s science, not dogma.
meanwhile, has the Mop & Pail found some common sense (consensus?)
This will make Suzuki, Dion and Taliban Jack Laydown shit their collective pants.
Harper was right . . Kyoto is NOT an environmental treaty. Its a Trade/Economic treaty, all about transferring wealth and using WTO methods to punish trading countries.
The Globe and Mail is onto climate change
Global warming is a reality. Canada must join the global effort to curb greenhouse gases. But it has to be smart in the way it does so, and Stéphane Dion is advocating an exercise in futility.
The federal Liberal Leader wants the government to reaffirm Canada’s unrealistic commitment to the Kyoto Protocol. There is no way, short of an economic disaster, that the nation can meet its treaty obligation to slash greenhouse-gas emissions to 6 per cent below 1990 levels in the period from 2008 to 2012. Despite their good intentions, Canadians would not accept the ensuing reality of drastically lower living standards and diminished government services such as health care. Worse, because Canadian officials apparently did not understand exactly what they were signing when they committed themselves to Kyoto in 1998, it is not even clear that it is in Canada’s best interests to remain a party to the treaty.
So why are all three opposition parties supporting Mr. Dion’s House of Commons resolution calling on the federal Conservative government to meet those targets and to impose hard caps on industrial polluters? Although the resolution is non-binding, the Liberals are also pushing through legislation calling for the implementation of the accord; the bill will be put to a final vote in two weeks. Either Mr. Dion is naive or, more likely, he has disingenuously placed politics ahead of common sense. What can he be thinking?
Canada signed the Kyoto Protocol on greenhouse-gas emissions in 1998, ratifying it in 2002. It became legally binding in February of 2005. Last May, after years of Liberal inaction, Ottawa conceded the level of emissions in 2004 was 34.6 per cent above the Kyoto target of 563 million tonnes. The level is even higher now, probably 780 million tonnes. But, under the treaty, energy-exporting Canada has promised to cut emissions to an average of 563 million tonnes a year in 2008-12. It is virtually impossible to meet those targets….
The Kyoto Protocol is essentially a trade treaty. Other nations, such as the United States and Britain, sent financially savvy negotiators. Canada sent aid and environmental experts. The terms reflect that imbalance. Energy-exporting nations such as Canada are held responsible for 60 per cent of all emissions from exported products such as natural gas….
Any nation that falls short of its commitments must carry a deficit multiplied by 1.3 onto its post-Kyoto balance sheet. If Canada does not meet its commitments, if it does not buy credits from other nations after 2012, Europe and Japan can impose sanctions on Canadian exports under World Trade Organization rules. “Essentially the treaty is operating against us as a permanent wealth transfer to other nations,” Ms. Donnelly concludes….
Those are serious issues that Canadians have to discuss openly and rationally. The former Liberal government had earmarked funding to buy emissions credits abroad. But surely any federal funding would be far better spent on the development of better technologies or more stringent auto-emissions policies to curtail greenhouse gases. As a staunch environmentalist, Mr. Dion knows the extent of the challenge — and the expensive risk of failure. Yet he is pressing the government to adhere fully to a treaty whose terms Canada cannot hope to fulfill.
The answer lies in improved technology, not in a poorer society. As Prime Minister Stephen Harper said yesterday, there “are no quick fixes to this. You can’t just snap your fingers” and solve the problem. That doesn’t give the government an excuse to ignore the calamity of global warming, but trying to meet the unattainable goals Canada set within Kyoto is not the way to proceed.
Another prophesy of Nostadamus has come true. The coming of the anti-christ, from the east. He is here now, and it is called Kyoto, led by dr did little.
Fact global, environment, climate has been changing for eons,. Maybe some problems have been the result.
Fact: Kyoto kicks in 2008 and ends in 2012.
Question: How in hell do all these experts expect to cure all ills in four years, that took eons to produce.
What happens after 2012, can all industries ect go back to what they did before 2008.
Harper said that first we should stabilize emmissions, you can’t tell cdns to quit driving working and eating overnight. It will take years to get the technology in place to really do something concrete. Can’t be done overnight.
As for carbon trading. Think of this.
Your wife bakes 5 dozen cookies a week, causing emmissions. Your neighbors wife bakes none, so has emmission credits. You pay your neighbor megabucks for not baking, but your wife continues to make cookies and you continue to pay. (don’t share the cookies)
Where or how has this reduced any emmissions.
That is what carbon credit trading is all about, only the billions are going to go to Strong and the liberals. How much emmission is produced by printing money.
And, if CO2 is trapped in the air, how come there are so many carbon sinks in the world.
I think every scientist that is pro kyoto has forgotten a lot if not all the basic scientific facts and theorys we learned (used to learn) in school and invented new ones.
The Clean Air Act makes more sense every day.
The following snip is from an editorial/demand by Mr. Dions’. I notice Mr. Dion does not mention that Goldman&Sachs and Morgan&Stanley etc. etc. are all set with the carbon market. Isn’t this new ‘commodity’ called CERs already being ‘traded’ in Chicago and London? I think that any ‘green ribbon’ person, such as Mr. Dion, who passionately believes, can certainly ‘indulge’ themselves, and buy Cers to cover their own emissions right now and they do not need permission from PMSH or Pres. Bush to do it.
Also, the new buzz ‘slur’ for the Libs/Bloc?NDP, is Climate Change Denier. It has a nice negative ring to it that really suits the Libs agenda. It sorta like calling someone a ‘holocaust denier’ instead of a Nazi. I wonder if an ad consulting company made a mint off the Liberal Party coming up with the term ‘Climate Change Denier’. /half sarc.
Stephen Harper, Build a Carbon Market Now
STEPHANE DION,
National Post
Published: Saturday, February 03, 2007
Yesterday, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a group of 2,000 leading scientists from around the world, released its latest report. The report concluded that the evidence of climate change is “unequivocal,” and that human activity is the cause of that change.
Canada has the resources, skill and ingenuity to tackle this problem. Moreover, as one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, we have the responsibility to do so.
When Stephen Harper became prime minister, he inherited a government and a country ready to lead the world in the fight against climate change
-snip
What a difference a few polls can make. In the past few weeks, the Prime Minister has engaged in a desperate game of catch-up. By reinstating a pale imitation of some of the Liberal climate change programs he cut a year ago, and wasting time on a redundant Clean Air
Act, he hopes to hide his true stripes: those of a climate change denier.
Tj…I don’t know all the answers to your Q’s, but the one about CO2 blocking heat coming in…the radiation reaching earth from the sun is of an extremely short wavelength(think UVB A and B,responsible for sunburns,skin cancer etc). The heat that is re-radiated from the earth is of a much longer wavelength(think Infra-red) CO2 can block long wavelengths,not short ones. You could compare it to a sieve. Certain sized holes pass some materials,but block others. That is also why the sky is blue as white light is scattered in a prism effect from the atmosphere. Some speculate that if the air was composed of just 1% more nitrogen, our sky would be green!
I liken the Suzukis and Gores and Dougs and Jeremiahs of this world to King Canute, with even greater ego problems.
Canute only wanted to change the tides, these people want to change the climate.
Actually, what they really want to do is change industrial society – reduce it to some romanticized mediaeval technological level, where they will be the priests and bishops.
another really interesting factor in all the Paris Climatapalooza is how the MSM has completely blown the story.
MSM says: IPCC report has been released
Fact – The IPCC report won’t be released until June. The document released yesterday is the SPM – Summary for Policy Makers. Don’t know how you release the summary when the main document is not finished but go figure.
MSM says: the most peer reviewed scientific document in history.
Fact – The SPM is written by a very small select group, they won’t even say who does it, but most/many of the suspected authors are known Gaia Believers and are still part of the Gaia High Priesthood even though their work has been discredited – i.e. Mann the “Hockey Stick inventor”
A very level analysis of the whole thing is at
3w.climateaudit.org/.
MacIntyre is one of the two who blew the whistle on the last SPM, the one that was doctored up at the last minute, the one that featured numerous instances of the hockey stick graph, even though it wasn’t part of the actual report.
he slices and dices all sides of the debate.
Jeremiah said:
“Well tried, Doug Newton, well tried. No one here is interested in finding out whether or not global warming is happening. They already know it isnt happening. And you know why it isnt happening? Because if it is, then policy changes will have an adverse impact on American industry. Trust me when I say that there are a number of people here who would rather fly the American flag. Just observe this boards obsession with the Iraq war/crisis.
And yes it true, people here are against a global effort. However, they are all for American self interest, so if you can get Bush to endorse this report, everyone here will become such rabid environmentalists that they would probably make the green party look like moderates. Its not a matter of what is being said, but rather who is saying it. Remember, Bush and the Republicans have a monopoly on “the truth”. Scientists dont know what they re talking about. Bush knows everything. Like Chuck Norris.”
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Note to Jeremiah:
Not everyone who disagrees with those hysterical environmentalists about Kyoto and climate change is
a. A Republican
b. Flies an American flag
c. A supporter of US. President George Bush
d. Oppose Kyoto because of its effect on American industry
In fact, many of the people who disagree do so for the following reasons
a. Implementing Kyoto in Canada would have a devastating effect on our industries, our economy and cost thousands of Canadian jobs.
b. Even if Canada, which is responsible for only 2% of the world’s GHC emissions, achieved its targets, this will be negated by countries such as China, India, Russia and other third world countries, who do not have any targets set and are steadily increasing their emissions.
c. Kyoto’s emission credit exchange is nothing but a money transfer scheme designed to transfer billions of hard-earned tax payer dollars from developed countries to third world countries, while doing nothing to stop the growth in GHC.
d. Cutting Canadian GHC emissions by a third by 2012 would mean shutting down many industries, closing down many power plants, closing down many factories, preventing many people from driving cars, crippling our airline industry and pushing our society back to the pre industrial age.
If these environmentalists want to live like the Amish, they are welcome to do so, but don’t try to force everyone to adopt your lifestyle.
Oh, and Jeremiah:
Check your facts…Kyoto adoption by the US was sewered by Clinton, not Bush…
I love it… “Climate Change Denier”.. Obviously a new mental disorder that needs “treatment”. The solution will be to ignore input from any person or organization afflicted with this disorder. Maybe we can create a new term along the lines of “homophobic” or “Islamophobic”.. I know “Climachanaphobic”…
I have all the symptoms. Having added to the liberal propeganda machine… where do I pick up my brown envelope?
wouldn’t that big hole in the ozone set all these bad gasses out and keep us safe from the boogieman that steven harpet has given us. this is the start of a bedtime story I am writing for david suzukis grandchildren, he talks of them so much as he flushes his untreated shit into the ocean off victoria and spews his untreated shit over the canadian bullshit coocoobirds airwaves.
All this talk just makes me want to pollute more, actually.
And shoot a few polar bears or something.
I wonder what it must be like to be a timid, sheep-like conformist. Never tried it myself.
and who are those who deny economic ruin at the altar of Kyoto
“economic chaos skeptics”
“reducing our standard of living by 30% deniers”
“they are all paid by socialist think tanks” ( I know its oxymoronic, but work with me here)
“they do not accept the science of economics”
Two can play this little verbal game.
If economic ruin happens, lets save closing the hospitals until the last, until we have de-funded all the Faculties of Equality Studies, the Enviro Self Interest Groups and the tens of thousands of fart catchers holding down desk space and counting the days until their pension.
This kyoto thing might be a really good back door way to de-fund all the Trudeaupian socialist crap that the Lieberals have foisted on us.
Woooo Hoooo . . . I’m starting to think all this Kyoto nonsense might have a silver lining.
That’s exactly it. Kyoto has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with emissions, climate change..etc. It’s a front for a money transference scheme, which will take money from industrial nations and hand it over, loan-free, to so-called ‘developing nations’.
Of the 169 odd nations within the Accord, only about 35 are required to REDUCE emissions. The others, and these including the massive populations of India and China, with their equally massive pollution and emission spewing old and new, many new, factories –they are exempt. Exempt from reducing emissions. They can build and pollute and emit..as much as, and even more, than they are now doing.
Why? Because the ‘bad guys’ are deemed by the Accord to be the Developed Nations, such as Europe, the USA, Australia, Canada..which are deemed as ‘causal’ of global warming.
The utter stupidity of this is immediately apparent. First – this is essentially ignoring, utterly ignoring all science, which affirms that climate change is a FACT, that our planet’s climate operates in cycles since it began and that these cycles are natural and not caused by man. To claim that this warming has NO natural causes but is only caused by the Western Nations is untenable. Why? Because it ignores scientific reality – those natural cycles; and because the time span is too short and narrow for these nations alone to cause such a global phenomenon.
Second, to claim that the tactic to reduce emissions is to fine those western nations that can’t reduce their emissions in X-time and then send those fines to nations who are exempt from emissions…to build many factories that both pollute and emit. ..? Is that insanity or what?
The developed nations of the West have long, long provided international aid to the developing nations. In some cases, it’s a LOAN. Repay it. In others, it’s not a loan.
Kyoto is a massive fraud, a tactic to FORCE the industrial nations to pay huge sums (not loans) to the developing countries..so they can industrialize. And build polluting and emitting factories. Insane.
Now, industrialism does produce pollutants and emissions. Most certainly, we can and must reduce both. But – that means that we get to keep our money and use it to carry out the expensive research to develop other fuels, to build different energy-systems, different factories. WE keep our money and WE use it to reduce pollutants (Harper’s Clean Air).
But Kyoto wants us not to be able to do this. If we follow Kyoto, we’ll be an economic wasteland. We won’t pollute or emit, that’s for sure. We won’t have an industrial economy. And we won’t be able to develop an industrial economy because we won’t have the funds to develop non-polluting technologies.
And Kyoto will increase global pollution and emissions – because our money will be used by developing countries, exempt from Kyoto, to build cheap new factories. To pollute and emit.
What stuns me, is why and how, can anyone support Kyoto???
One of the best pieces of Kyoto fraud is that Saudi Arabia is considered a “Developing Nation” and can sell GhG credits.
Un frik’n real considering the wealth and amount of GhG its oil industry puts out.
The UN brought us the Oil for Palaces scam and now we have the Kyoto Money for Hot Air ponzi scheme.