This is definitely progress:
The latest part of the Conservatives’ long-awaited strategy focuses more on smog than on global warming…
Excellent. Naturally, the Conservatives will get nothing but criticism from environmentalists and the left-lib media, but this is exactly what they should be doing.
Whether you believe CO2 emissions are a threat to the Earth or not, surely Kyoto supporters in Canada should be embarassed about spending billions, making lofty speeches, and then having a worse record on CO2 emissions than the U.S.
So, let the critics seethe and wail. I’ll take effective measures to limit smog over useless sanctimoniousness any day.
But for those who are interested in following the science of Global Warming, I notice stories like this still get systematically underreported:
A team at the Danish National Space Center has discovered how cosmic rays from exploding stars can help to make clouds in the atmosphere. The results support the theory that cosmic rays influence Earth’s climate.
(snip)
Interestingly, during the 20th Century, the Sun’s magnetic field which shields Earth from cosmic rays more than doubled, thereby reducing the average influx of cosmic rays.
The resulting reduction in cloudiness, especially of low-altitude clouds, may be a significant factor in the global warming Earth has undergone during the last century. However, until now, there has been no experimental evidence of how the causal mechanism linking cosmic rays and cloud formation may work.
(snip)
“Some said there was no conceivable way in which cosmic rays could influence cloud cover. The SKY experiment now shows how they do so, and should help to put the cosmic-ray connection firmly onto the agenda of international climate research.”
Well, yes, it should, but almost certainly won’t. You can’t usefully demonize anyone by better understanding natural effects on the climate.
RE; the critics……Yes they will seethe and wail.
If it does not come from the UN or some other parasitic socialist group it cannot be good…or so goes the apparent logic of the leftoid.
Actuall progress or results are not what they care about…apparently.
No let me restate that…by all evidence available..and ther is plenty the Libcomsimps of this world would rather see our economy destroyed for nothing than have a single rational action taken by any government.
Excellent post Jaeger. The easiest way to understand what all the Kyoto crapola, carbon credit scams, Western World economy destroying mechanisms, China India exemptions, UN world governance, ect, is to google Maurice Strong. It will also give you an understanding of why the Gores, Suzukis, Chretiens, Annans of the world are acting in such strange ways.
Prime Minister Harper and Rona Ambrose are two politicians making sense on polution controls.
I hope sda does not let the left wing-nuts degrade this very important topic into babble. Debate the pros & cons of the UN/Maurice Strong “project”. After all, he put Oak Lake, MB on the map. It deserves an airing. The sense behind Mona’s initiative will surely follow.
Dion is worried that the government(Conservatives) will only ‘pretend’ to do something about the problem. Now where would a Lib get an idea like that?
Kyoto is about CO2, not polution. It is not even about controling CO2 as half the world is exempt. CO2 is not a polutant. It is an esential gas. It has been at a much, much higher concentration in the past. Life flourished then too.
The Earth’s climate is always changing. Only 15000 years ago most of Canada was under a kilometer of ice !! How in the h*** did it get so cold for that to happen ?? A better question is how and the hell did it get warm enough to melt it !!
As Dannish scientist have just demonstrated, there is a definite link between exploding stars, cosmic rays AND changes in our Earth’s climate. The MSM does not report Kyoto Hoax Busting news such as this. Perhaps they think it would make them look stupid. Too late.
Global warming on Mars:
http://www.mos.org/cst-archive/article/80/9.html
Isn’t it funny how the Media fawn all over Dalton Mcguinty and his bold decision to close Ontarios Coal fired energy plants, all in the name of clean air for Ontario, which we all know now, was nothing but lies.
So, now Harper is going to finish the job MCguilty never started, he’s going to bring in real clean air legislation, with real teeth, and all the left and the Liberals and the MsM can do, is whine and cry and stamp their feet.
Boy…these conservative times, sure do feel good.
I wish I could recall where I saw the headline, but apparently the US Weather office has declared the hurricane season over with only one (or did it say no) hurricanes making landfall in the US. So much for last year’s doom and gloom of continual calamities due to the extreme weather that would arise from global warming. I don’t recall seeing this headline on CBC or CTV. (Don’t worry that isn’t a serious point about the CBC or CTV).
Ed the Hun
One thing I noticed was that there is no disapproval of the plan from industry. If they regulate the automotive industry to current California standards, will the power / industrial industry be at the same standards? California has what is called BACT (Best Available Control Technology) requirement. The regulations call for NOx (oxides of nitrogen) of 2.5 ppmvd @ 15% O2, 1-hour rolling average OR 2.0 ppmvd @ 15% O2, 3-hour rolling average. This is achieved with dry low NOx burners for gas turbines and selective catalytic reduction (SCR) in the exhaust gas from the turbine.
I was at a conference in San Diego a few years ago where we toured a co-generation power plant with this technology. The air coming into the power plant was at 15 ppm NOx, the air going out was 6 ppm NOx, (the regulatory requirement at that time). What this means in English is that the power plant was cleaning the air.
Does the clean air plan use currently available technology as the baseline for the regulations?
I am willing to pay the full tab for the world for Kyoto. Does anyone know if the UN accepts 3rd-party post-dated checks from outside this universe?
This IS progress, but not great progress.
I’ve been a big booster and fan of Harper and have urged patience for Ambrose’s plan, but today’s announcement could have been worked out over a long dinner with drinks afterwards – this isn’t good enough for a nine month period of promises that a plan was coming.
I’ll be honest, I’m disappointed – this seems like typical federal government semi-action.
I hope he and Ambrose can knock our socks off in the upcoming months, but I’ve lost a bit of faith in the Harper government today. My constant defending of him on the environmental file just stopped. Sure, it’s already better than the Liberals, but – what *wouldn’t* be better than the Liberals?
This is crap-plus-one, nothing more.
Did anyone ever notice that most of these spokesmen or leaders of these pathetic environment groups are raging poofters, they are almost as shocked and appalled as much as Bill Graham is. It wouldn’t matter to these fairies if Steven Harper bottled every last particle of smog and sent it to George Bush these assholes with agendas of socialism would still be {thhho, dithgusted}
Are the conservatives guardians of our environment? The largest source of greenhouse gases in Canada is Alberta. The source of half of the smog in southwestern Ontario is the U.S. I’ll believe it when I breathe it.
What concerns me is the fact that the msm has taken the ABOSLUTE about global warming and saying that it is bad….. nothing is absolutley BAD. Why not show some of the good things that may come from a warmer climate, like the fact that we can grow food in canada when it warmer outside…Why can’t the science show this? or is it just so de riguer to be against global warming?
What concerns me is the fact that the msm has taken the ABOSLUTE about global warming and saying that it is bad….. nothing is absolutley BAD. Why not show some of the good things that may come from a warmer climate, like the fact that we can grow food in canada when it warmer outside…Why can’t the science show this? or is it just so de riguer to be against global warming?
The way cosmic rays interact with the suns magnetic field to affect the earth’s climate has been known for years. (The earth is well within the sun’s magnetic field.) Fluctuations in solar activity causes fluctuations in the sun’s magnetic field in lockstep with historical fluctuations in the earth’s climate. But it didn’t fit the doomsday scenario so it is ignored. This new test result will also be ignored.
Ed the Hun,
According to the “experts” global warming will cause more and worse than normal hurricanes. It can also cause fewer than normal hurricanes. And of course if we have a normal hurricane season, that’s also caused by global warming. And they’re serious when they say this. So there’s no reason for complacency, as this years mild hurricane season was totally a result of global warming.
The clearly fraudulent Kyoto protocol would never had seen the light of day had it not been for the clearly fradulent MSM’s spin.
The falsified Mann/UN IPCC hockey stick graph would have been dead in the water from day one had the Media been at least neutral.
Have you ever seen a TV anchor ask a Gore or a Suzuki or a Dion to explain the falsehoods behind the hockey stick graph ??
The Kyoto Protocol is about much more than a climate hoax. It is also about the Media’s objective in reporting the news. Lucky for the citizens of Canada we have the Internet and it’s blogs.
B. HOAX AWARE,
Shut up. I’m working a deal for carbon credits with China for a couple of X TMX Elmos. I think they want to knock them off (Elmos … they already have the carbon credits knocked off).
The issue of Global Warming isn’t about scoring points against the right. Whatever it takes to make progress on the issue and move the debate forward is fine by me I for one am even willing to let you guys take all the credit, whatever works.
The influence of cosmic ray’s on our climate is still something that isn’t perfectly understood but it isn’t new and it’s not something that advocates of the Global Warming hypothesis are denying.
The fact that the earth’s climate is in a highly complex state of equilibrium that isn’t perfectly understood is all the more reason not to disturb that equilbrium.
The real global warming story related story to watch is the thaw of the Siberian tundra which is beginning to release methane. This was predicted to happen of course but not for another 40-60 years. That should be a wake up call for those that think that problems that aren’t fully understood should be ignored.
dirtman,
The effects of cosmic rays on the environment isn’t being ignored by climatologists. And the effect of global warming on hurricanes is also hotly contested. You don’t have to take my word for it, check out http://www.realclimate.org and you’ll see a lively diversity of opinion and debate on the issue.
Kyoto is Dead as a Dodo: Chretien Killed Kyoto.
Canwest news begins its report [below] by telling you:
Harper dismissed ….
Harper is a dismisser of those who know all: the experts…Canadian experts.
Harper dismissed as a dismisser: the demonization continues by the MSM.
But…thetyee reports it was Librano$ Jean Chretien who killed Kyoto in 2002:
How [the Liberals in] Ottawa Sabotaged Our Kyoto Pledge in 2002
[Librano$]Chretien: protected petro profits
Quiet deal with oil industry locked in failure.
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/10/04/Kyoto/
Canwest News:
Dismissing the advice of Canada’s top environmental experts, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced Tuesday… (National Newswatch) …-
Leftist City Council where? Ottawa, the nation’s capital.
The left contributes $750,000 from taxpayers to something ????? CO? CO2? ?????
Idling? Moonbats on Ottawa City Council. …-
Should City Council pass a more stringent anti-idling bylaw? It would reduce the amount of time cars can idle (from 5 minutes to 3 minutes) and reduce the number of vehicles that would be exempt from the bylaw. It would cost $750,000 per year.
cfra.com
AdScam Chretien Watch: Oil Money is da Canadian Values, oui.
Chretien: Who cares aboud da Kyofi Accord?
PetroKazakhstan? PetroCanada? $ounds familiar, oui? First CEO of PetroCanada was…. Maurice Kyoto Strong, he of the Green-Greed Party. …-
(2004)
Former Canadian Prime minister Jean Chretien has been named a special advisor to the board of directors of PetroKazakhstan, the company announced in a press release this week.
Chretien will advise the board on international relations issues, drawing on his ten years as Canadian PM as well as his earlier service in the Ministries of Justice, Finance and Energy and Mining.
In addition to Chretien, the PetroKazakhstan board announced the appointments to the board of 65-year old Danish entrepreneur Jan Bonde Nielsen and 52-year old Canadian lawyer Jean-Paul Bisnere.
Bonde Nielson is Chairman and owner of Green Oak Holdings, which runs various oil-related business projects in Europe and Asia.
J.P. Bisnere is a senior corporate partner at the firm of Davies Ward Phillips & Vineberg, which is headquartered in Toronto. He is one of Canada’ s leading securities lawyers.
According to financial experts in Toronto, Jean Chretien could help smooth relations between the Canadian oil company and the Kazakhstani government. PetroKazakhstan has had disputes with the government in the past over tax and monopoly issues (stemming from the company’s ownership of one of Kazakhstan’s three major oil refineries)…-
http://www.kazakhstaninvestment.com/kz-news-02-10-04.html
I watched all the lefty moonbats and Giggles on Mike Duffy yesterday rant and wail and pontificate and use all the “talking points” that have become their code to their supporters that what they are saying is very, very bad –
– of course you must look directly into the camera and talk in hushed tones too (ala – Taliban Jack)
George Bush lover
climate change denier
defends base in oil and gas
and on and on and on – seems like Alberta is destined to become the whipping boy for the left.
Don’t they know that the oil and gas industry has already cleaned up their air and is continually working on ways to make cleaner air. Just because the oil and gas industry didn’t get someone to go on TV and whine and wail about how this is a “kick in the stomach” (ala Buzzard), the left can rant on and on about how the Conservatives are pandering to their base in Alberta by not requiring them to reduce emissions.
And Giggles just sat there smiling.
I wish Mike would come back – every week the host has been getting more and more leftist – pretty soon we will see some Green party host up there.
Sigh
Liberal lobbyist/grant writer,TDH, from Lotus Land, aka B.C., is calling in the “environmental experts” to deconstruct Kyoto.
Well, no… not Kyoto. Kyoto is dead, killed by Librano$ Chretien, in 2002, while Liberal Prime Minister of Canada.
Oh, it’s PM Harper’s plan tdh wants to kill.
Don’t you know, Iggy has a “climate change plan” ready. It will grow pineapples, grapefruit and peanuts in Alberta’s banana belt. No more sour gas (burp) wells. Iggy’s plan will be christened with the acronym: NEP/NDP.
Who will be Iggy’s Minister of Fruits and Nuts? Bill Graham, Brison Who?, Bob Rae, S. Dion? Hedy Fry? …-
• I’m going to try and get Michael Ignatieff’s climate change plan compared with this Clean Air Act by environmental experts with far more capabilities to decipher the nitty gritty of the documents, and I will subsequently post the findings on this website. One thing I am confident about, however, is that Harper’s plan comes nowhere close to the steps Ignatieff is prepared to take. …-
tdh
Yeah and for good notes it should be noted that all those who went to the kyoto global warming meeting went in their private jets and arrived in bulletproof limos and back in the 1970s we were threatned with the oppisit GLOBAL COOLING. There is NOT GLOBAL WARMING its all that HOT AIR from AL GORE and the wackos in crazy insane groups like GREENPEACE
Smog, or particulate air pollution, is a tangible environmental threat that can be effectively reduced or eliminated….it is not what Kyoto proposes to solve….smog reduction does not suit the agenda of the Kyoto cult…they need intangible gaseous dragons to slay and to continue the hysterics and doomsday fear mongering…all of which are neccessary to manipulating a fearful public into rendering up their wealth, productivity and political power to the Kyoto globalist political cabal which spawed this imaginary bogeyman in the first place.
Here’s a pice of irreutable scientific fact: carbon dioxide and most carbon based gases reflect the part of the solar light spectrum that causes heating ( infrared)…in effect an atmosphere of CO2 should be colder , not warmer.
But factual science is the antitithesis of the Kyoto cult leaders, who incidentally, are the same people who stand to gain from the fraudulent oil price inflation brought about by the equally fraudulent peak oil theory and the hysterics of finite supply.
If you want to reagain your middle class life style and get back to the days before market price gouging was built on junk science, fear and fraud, you should give the eco doom sayers the boot they are working for people who are deeply invested in energy futures…as their credibility dies the cost of living and taxes level off proportionatly.
http://hallsofmacadamia.blogspot.com/2006/10/stephane-dion-capable-of-shame.html
Dion has problems at Clean Air Presser
While none of the Dion staffers was willing to comment on the record, a liberal party insider was quoted as saying there was talk of rushing Mr. Dion back to the “Chretien Center for Mortal Soul Cryonics” located in Shawinigan, Quebec for emergency surgery.
For those still uncertain as to what has the biggest effect on planetary temperatures, here’s a little nugget. Look at the “butterfly” jpeg (sunspot distribution over time).
http://solar.physics.montana.edu/YPOP/Spotlight/Magnetic/cycle.html
I like the gov’ts enviro plan. Probability of success is near unity (unlike Kyoto, which is near zero). Consequences? Death rates drop. Think asthma and urbanization.
Wl Mackenzie “Here’s a pice of irreutable scientific fact: carbon dioxide and most carbon based gases reflect the part of the solar light spectrum that causes heating ( infrared)…in effect an atmosphere of CO2 should be colder , not warmer.”
Pure brilliance, where were you when the Tobacco lobby was countering the junk science stating that smoking caused cancer.
This reminds me of a recent report about the number of misty days at Niagara Falls.
The Canadian side of the falls did a scientific experiment using a wind tunnel and concluded that the increase in the number of hotels up against the falls was changing wind patterns and thus causing the increase in misty days.
To counter that, an American scientist simply said it’s because of global warming. (No scientific proof provided).
Clearly smog, water quality, deforestation,etc are immediate problems that need to be fixed. Global warming is an unproven theory that the left uses as a wedge issue to scare people into voting for them.
Did anyone ever notice that most of these spokesmen or leaders of these pathetic environment groups are raging poofters, they are almost as shocked and appalled as much as Bill Graham is. It wouldn’t matter to these fairies if Steven Harper bottled every last particle of smog and sent it to George Bush these assholes with agendas of socialism would still be {thhho, dithgusted}
Posted by: bartinsky at October 11, 2006 12:22 AM
bartinsky has joined the Irwin Daisy faction, posting material that demonstrates that not all Liberal smear tactics are completely without foundation. There really are some distasteful Neanderthals lurking in the nether regions of Canada’s Conservative voting base.
Interesting that none of you can publish an opinion without first doing the name calling thing. Even by proxy. I’m still waiting for the link to the “billions” of dolars spent on Kyoto. Ummmmm, you could try these…
http://torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2006/10/10/1992126-sun.html
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2006/10/11/2000011-sun.html
Mona Ambose, yes. Canada’s Liberal gov’t, through CIDA, did infact spend millions on dubious programs. Who do you think set up the infamous CIDA ?? You got it, Maurice Strong. A precursor to Kyoto ?
Isn’t the largest Canadian contributor to so-called green house gases the Ontario Auto sector ?? See Rex Murphy.
CIDA a precursor to Kyoto ?
You’re asking me? Or just putting it out there? Still don’t see a link to the “billions.” YOu know, a reputable one.
Interesting that none of you can publish an opinion without first doing the name calling thing. Even by proxy. I’m still waiting for the link to the “billions” of dolars spent on Kyoto. Ummmmm, you could try these…
Posted by nordica13 at October 11, 2006 12:12 PM
Nobody has said there has been billions spent on credits…Rona Ambrose talked about 100 million spent on CIDA and made the mistake of saying it was directly for Kyoto Credits.
“The billions spent” will be in the future. This is what Canada will have to spend in order to make our Kyoto commitment because after years of neglect we will not be able to make it with actual CO2 reductions.
Kitchener conservative writes: “Nobody has said there has been billions spent on credits…”
Posted by Jaeger at 10:05 today: “Whether you believe CO2 emissions are a threat to the Earth or not, surely Kyoto supporters in Canada should be embarassed about spending billions, making lofty speeches, and then having a worse record on CO2 emissions than the U.S.”
Note the lack of a future tense. That’s the present participle dude.
“This is what Canada will have to spend..” And as you well know, Kyoto in Canada is dead. We won’t have to spend anything on it
Rona Ambrose “made the mistake;” So, on the eve of a major announcement (of a coming announcement) about a “made in Canada” environmental policy, the frontline cabinet minister, who will be sharing the stage with the PM in Vancouver, *mistakenly* attributed a 100 million in CIDA disbursements to Kyoto disbursements? No one in the PMO caught it beforehand? Her committee speech wasn’t vetted? Ambrose can’t tell the difference?
Very charitable assessment.
Um Nordica – after 13 years of dilly-dallying, you have the audacity to take this government to task because they haven’t cleaned up the air in the 9 months they have been in power. You have the audacity to intimate that a remark made by Rona Ambrose is somehow worse than what the liberals have done to this country over the past 13 years.
name calling? If the shoe fits……
Posted by Jaeger at 10:05 today: “Whether you believe CO2 emissions are a threat to the Earth or not, surely Kyoto supporters in Canada should be embarassed about spending billions, making lofty speeches, and then having a worse record on CO2 emissions than the U.S
Posted by: nordica13 at October 11, 2006 01:20 PM
Again it doesn’t say about spending on credits!!!
You’re own quote proves my point, what Jaeger is saying is that the previous Liberal government spent billions on useless programs, made big speeches (Paul Martin in Montreal 2005) and did NOTHING!!!
The CIDA was set up in 2000 pre “Canada Emission Reduction Incentives Agency” which was set up only last year. So yes technically kyoto credits will be purchased from that agency, but what about before then? Surely investing money for foreign countries to improve their CO2 output is equivilent to direct kyoto credit and would be counted as such.
Ummm Albertagirl, I haven’t been dilly-dallying for 13 years. OK, that’s a pedantic cheap shot at your poor grammar and I should know better.
Actually, I haven’t taken this government to task at all. In fact I like the “breath of fresh air” this government represents. I asked about the purported billions spent on Kyoto (a pseudo-fact in an imaginary time line), something which has not been substantively addressed yet, and I mentioned – via two links – that a well known conservative newspaper is asking hard questions about the premises under which the present government is announcing its own environmental policies.
And that’s all I’ve done. I certainly did not “intimate” any comparison between Minister Ambrose and the Liberal government. How you got from here to there reminds me of how B. Hoax Aware got from Maurice Strong and CIDA to Kyoto: feverishly.
But hey, for the record: Minister Ambrose did not make “a remark.” She read a speech in front of a Parliamentary committee, a prepared speech meant to pave the way for the announcement made yesterday in Vancouver.
Posted by Jaeger at 10:05 today: “Whether you believe CO2 emissions are a threat to the Earth or not, surely Kyoto supporters in Canada should be embarassed about spending billions, making lofty speeches, and then having a worse record on CO2 emissions than the U.S.”
Note the lack of a future tense. That’s the present participle dude.
“This is what Canada will have to spend..” And as you well know, Kyoto in Canada is dead. We won’t have to spend anything on it
Posted by: nordica13 at October 11, 2006 01:20 PM
Thanks for proving my point. You own quote says nothing about spending billions on Kyoto credits, only you are saying that.
And as you well know Kyoto is not dead in Canada, the reality is that we can’t meet our commitments with actual CO2 reductions alone. We will have to buy credits to reach our targets. The government has said that this is not realistic given the time frame we are presently under and they don’t believe that spending money on credits is a good environmental policy. Actual environmental reductions in smog, clean water, etc are much more desirable. The reduction of CO2 output will be a by-production of strigent emissions controls.
And by the way CIDA was set up in 2000 with $100 million. That money has been spent. The new Agency was only set up last year by Paul Martion to directly buy credits “Canada Emission Reduction Incentives Agency”. One would assume that money spent under the CIDA that helps foreign countries to reduce their CO2 output would count againt Kyoto credits.
Best line from Harper” We will not hire a comedian to promote our plan.
As for smoking and cancer: A report came out a few weeks ago that there is an alarming increase in lung cancer patients, who have never smoked.
A PLANE HAS JUST CRASHED INTO A BLDG IN NY. It is an apt bldg, crashed into the 10th floor. I suppose the msm and leftists will blame Rowe and Bush for this as an Oct surprise.
Under the Liberals, Environment Canada did, in fact, spend Millions, if not Billions, under the Kyoto banner. And PMPM planned on spending, wasting, Billions more. The One-Tonne-Challenge was merely the tip of the perverbial iceberg. Bergs, that have been melting and freezing and melting again, many times before man started his first campfire.
Just because the MSM does not report it, cannot hide the fact that there is, in fact, a solid link; Maurice Strong – CIDA – Kyoto. Programs to transfer Canadian tax dollars to other countries. If the objective is Foreign Aid, say so. But don’t try to hid it behind a Climate Hoax. Real environmentaists are pi**ed that some of their good work has been hyjacked/associated with social engineering fanatics.
From the CIDA website: The Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA) was created in 1968 by an Order in Council to replace the External Aid Office.
2000, 1968, what’s the big diff? You know, whatever.
And again, Kitchener Conservative (my sister lives in Kitchener, she loves it there!) *you* said Canada will have to spend the billions. Then you say we can’t meet our commitments or pay for them. That sounds like the death of a policy to me. Either that or you like the whole self-contradiction thing you’ve got going there.
Think we’ll pay for Kyoto? Under PM Harper? Geez, I don’t think so. You see, he and Minister Ambrose are bringing in a NEW environmental policy. My guess is the OLD policy will go away. Otherwise, why bring in a new one?
As for the last paragraph, read the Toronto Sun articles. CIDA and the CERIA are two separate entities. You can “assume” a connection between them into reality if you want to try, but to my mind that sounds a little too much like ringing the conspiracy bell.
B. Hoax Aware writes:
“Under the Liberals, Environment Canada did, in fact, spend Millions, if not Billions, under the Kyoto banner.”
And again, saying it’s so doesn’t make it so. You have proof? Or is this another assertion? It seems like every time you want to make a blanket statement without evidence you bring in the evil MSM, those poor slobs who have to labour under the weight of fact checking, corroboration and editors. You should stop using them as a crutch. Stand up on your own two feet for goodness sake and get informed. Don’t depend on the MSM if you don’t want to, there are plenty of places you can dig up the information you need to support your arguments. Otherwise you wouldn’t be making them right?
From the CIDA website: The Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA) was created in 1968 by an Order in Council to replace the External Aid Office.
2000, 1968, what’s the big diff? You know, whatever.
And again, Kitchener Conservative (my sister lives in Kitchener, she loves it there!) *you* said Canada will have to spend the billions. Then you say we can’t meet our commitments or pay for them. That sounds like the death of a policy to me. Either that or you like the whole self-contradiction thing you’ve got going there.
Think we’ll pay for Kyoto? Under PM Harper? Geez, I don’t think so. You see, he and Minister Ambrose are bringing in a NEW environmental policy. My guess is the OLD policy will go away. Otherwise, why bring in a new one?
As for the last paragraph, read the Toronto Sun articles. CIDA and the CERIA are two separate entities. You can “assume” a connection between them into reality if you want to try, but to my mind that sounds a little too much like ringing the conspiracy bell.
Posted by: nordica13 at October 11, 2006 03:27 PM
Again you only read what you want to read.
The $100 million was set up in 2000 (right from the articles you linked in a previous post)
And what I said was “And as you well know Kyoto is not dead in Canada, the reality is that we can’t meet our commitments with actual CO2 reductions alone. We will have to buy credits to reach our targets.” There is no contradiction, it’s merely a fact of life.
As for CIDA and CERIA, you try to cloud the arguement by making it appear as if the two agencies have always co-existed. The establishment of the CERIA after CIDA doesn’t nullify any previous contributions made through the CIDA prior to the CERIA’s existence. It’s simple the agency that NOW handles purchasing kyoto credits.
The effects of global warming is still only theoretical…bad air, bad water and the health problems that go with them are a reality.
When you consider the sheer numbers of people that suffer from various resperatory problems, cancer,etc, I would consider the reduction of SMOG and other airborne particulates, clean water, deforestation, etc, more immediate priorities for the Canadian government. Cleaning up these areas have other secondary benefits such as reduction of CO2, reduction of health problems, etc.
Kitchener Conservative writes: “The $100 million was set up in 2000 (right from the articles you linked in a previous post)”
Never denied that. I accept that as a fact. So what?
KC writes more: “As for CIDA and CERIA, you try to cloud the arguement by making it appear as if the two agencies have always co-existed.”
Not sure what you’re getting at here. CIDA was created in 1968, CERIA in 2000. That fact alone means they have NOT always co-existed.
They are separate entities. One is for doling out foreign aid, the other for buying international Kyoto credits. CIDA is not in the business of buying Kyoto credits. Never has been. Here’s the quote from Gred Weston’s column:
“After considerable digging and prodding, we discover that the environment minister was quoting from a roster of foreign aid projects approved by the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), and funded from a one-shot $100-million kitty set up under the Liberals in 2000, and long since emptied.
While the money was supposed to be spent on projects to help developing countries clean up their act, none of it had any connection to Kyoto credits, contrary to what the minister would have us believe. It was foreign aid, plain and simple.”
But you read this, right? Or did you skip this part?
KC writes even more: “The effects of global warming is still only theoretical…”
Actually, if you want to get technical, i.e., if you want to accurately express skepticism about global warming you would say, “The *causes* of global warming are still only *hypothetical*.” One can have a theory – say in mathematics – and prove it, but even in math a hypothesis is still something that hasn’t yet been proven to everyone’s satisfaction. And as you note yourself, the “effects” are irrefutable. The argument is about causes.
Under Dion, Environment Canada had a budget of Billions. They HAD spent a lot of $$$ on the KYOTO fraud. They WERE spending a lot on the Kyoto fraud. And they PLANNED on spending Billions more had they not went down to defeat. I do not know about you, but I hate it when I part with $$$ and then realize I was scamed.
Case in point; Remember all the pamphlets EC mailed to Canadian households a few years back ?? Warning us that “the climate is changing” ?? Well, guess what. The climate has ALWAYS been changing !! What do you think cause ice 2 kilometers thick to build up over much of Canada ?? Only 15000 years ago !! And then it warmed up. A lot !! Enough to melt it. So EC spent, what, a buck a pamphlet , to each household. Maybe $10 Million, telling us it’s our fault the Earth has warmed a little recently, like this has never happenned before ??!! Pathetic. MS, Mann, UN, Dion, Martin, Gore cooked the books (hockey stick graph) and we were all going to pay dearly for it. Thankfully we now have RONA.
Can anybody recommend a website that has a ‘Dummies guide to Kyoto’?
I have a fairly good idea of what it’s all about, but would like to understand it better without having to wade through a whole bunch of ‘UNese’
nordica13:
As a matter of fact I did read it. Did you?
CERIA was set up last year and I quote “But last year, Paul Martin’s government set up something called the Canada Emission Reduction Incentives Agency in the environment department, specifically for that purpose.” (from your own Toronto Star link dated October 10, 2006). By the way the article is an opinion piece not a fact based report from a think tank or agency.
It’s the reporter’s interpretation of the information gathered. It seems to me that he is saying because the money didn’t come from CERIA, it is kyoto credits. It’s misleading.
The fact that the money didn’t come from CERIA is irrelevant. What do you think kyoto credits are? Do you believe there is some magical bank account that we put money into and some kyoto credit bank manager says you put in X dollars in you get this many credits. Wake up!!!!No, it’s foreign investment!!! Foreign investment into countries to help them reduce the CO2 emissions is counted. You can also send money to a country that is below it’s targets so that the extra amounts are transferred to your countries and counted into your reductions.